Is Mental Illness a Choice?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hey Community,

When I first came to the Leaving Board I was devastated by the realization that I would have to be accountable for my side of the street in getting better….especially when I was stuck in blame mode…but eventually…as tough as it was... .I came to.

I have no doubt that mental illness & BPD is as real as my hand but I'm curious about your thoughts. Do our ex's choose to be sick? How much accountability do our ex's have in getting help for their disorder?

I was triggered to ask this question due to a thread about forgiveness. Can we really fully forgive someone who chooses to remain sick? I have accepted that my ex is REALLY a sick man; but forgiveness I ebb back and forth on... .

Spell

[bpdspell]

Hey Community,

When I first came to the Leaving Board I was devastated by the realization that I would have to be accountable for my side of the street in getting better….especially when I was stuck in blame mode…but eventually…as tough as it was... .I came to.

I have no doubt that mental illness & BPD is as real as my hand but I'm curious about your thoughts. Do our ex's choose to be sick? How much accountability do our ex's have in getting help for their disorder?

I was triggered to ask this question due to a thread about forgiveness. Can we really fully forgive someone who chooses to remain sick? I have accepted that my ex is REALLY a sick man; but forgiveness I ebb back and forth on... .

Spell

[TheDude]

Can we really fully forgive someone who chooses to remain sick?

'Choice' would imply awareness and acceptance that there's a problem in the first place.

As for forgiveness, that can mean different things to different people, but I don't see it as having anything to do with absolving someone of bad behavior, but of letting go of anger and negative energy about that person. It's not for your ex, it's for yourself... .

[Turkish]

Hey Community,

When I first came to the Leaving Board I was devastated by the realization that I would have to be accountable for my side of the street in getting better….especially when I was stuck in blame mode…but eventually…as tough as it was... .I came to.

I have no doubt that mental illness & BPD is as real as my hand but I'm curious about your thoughts. Do our ex's choose to be sick? How much accountability do our ex's have in getting help for their disorder?

I was triggered to ask this question due to a thread about forgiveness. Can we really fully forgive someone who chooses to remain sick? I have accepted that my ex is REALLY a sick man; but forgiveness I ebb back and forth on... .

Me, too, I go back and forth. Mine knows she has something wrong underlying the depression. She's even admitted it to me. But she is has been stubborn with her T, refused to consider taking medication. Gaslit and lied to the family counselor we went to as well. I could be nice and say, "it's her disorder taking control," but this is a grown woman. She knows on some level what is right and what is wrong. She knows she has hurt me, even if her juvenile sense of empathy can't really understand it. And she knows she has hurt out children. Yet she persists in her bad behavior. Persists in lying pathologically, telling her friends only 75% of the truth so she can get validation, and so on.

My T finally had to flat out say to me the other day, "this is the first time [in two months] that I've seen you really angry. Previously, it seems you've been making excuses, talking about the disorder and the psychology behind it, yet in the end, what she is doing and has done is WRONG."

Sorry, but I don't buy into the "mental illness is like having cancer, or being in a wheelchair... .where's your compassion? We can't help it!" There are obviously mental illnesses which are very hard to overcome, the fact of someone being a paraplegic or having cancer doesn't hurt other people. It doesn't seek out and destroy peoples' lives.

[Octoberfest]

Hey Community,

When I first came to the Leaving Board I was devastated by the realization that I would have to be accountable for my side of the street in getting better….especially when I was stuck in blame mode…but eventually…as tough as it was... .I came to.

I have no doubt that mental illness & BPD is as real as my hand but I'm curious about your thoughts. Do our ex's choose to be sick? How much accountability do our ex's have in getting help for their disorder?

I was triggered to ask this question due to a thread about forgiveness. Can we really fully forgive someone who chooses to remain sick? I have accepted that my ex is REALLY a sick man; but forgiveness I ebb back and forth on... .

Spell

Hey Spell,

I don't think I'll have anything to say here that you haven't already considered/know yourself already.  You and Seeking Balance were huge mentors in my journey when I came to bpdfamily.

The whole forgiveness issue is a hard one when dealing with pwBPD because more often than not there is no apology to be had.  I think forgiveness, as mentioned above, is much more for us than for them... .That being said, I too have some difficulty in separating the idea of forgiving my ex from seeming like I am saying what she did is OK or acceptable.

I think another reason that BPD is so difficult to treat is that the nature of the disorder itself makes it incredibly difficult for someone to admit that THEY have the problem... .when all of your energy is focused on laying blame on others, pushing your shame off on others, and otherwise making others accountable for your poor choices, it sure seems like it would be nigh impossible to stand up and say, "I have a problem".  I really go back and forth on how conscious pwBPD are of what they do... .Whether they are perfectly aware of what they are doing but just combat the shame that comes from it by doing it more, or if they truly are so far down the rabbit hole that they fail to see how their actions and behaviors cause such distress to both themselves and others.  If they genuinely believe that EVERYONE ELSE has the problem.  

In the first case I mentioned, yes, I would say they are making a choice ( that is, a choice to not do anything about it).  If the second scenario is the one in play, then no, they can't really make a choice when they fail to see the question.  

It is frustrating. And in many cases, hopeless.  I still struggle to wrap my head around the idea that someone could continually act the way my BPDex does and actually do and believe the things that she does.  She honestly must not have a very good grasp on reality at all.

[peacebaby]

BPD is a horribly painful illness to have. No one would choose it.

But how one behaves, that's another story.

[Learning_curve74]

I believe that there is a huge obstacle to overcome for somebody who is mentally ill to seek treatment, especially for somebody with BPD. They already lack healthy self-esteem, and to admit to having a mental illness can be a source of shame for them. I do believe that most pwBPD realize they are different from the "average" person and that their lives are often not happy or fulfilling, and my personal opinion is that they do have a choice to at least try and follow a path of healing.

Many times people note there are situational behaviors, one clear example was a community member here whose wife immediately stopped her rage when she realized he was videoing her. So while the patterns of behavior are ingrained, I don't believe they are at the level of being inborn instinct or fundamentally unchangeable.

There are blog posts and other writings from pwBPD that show they can have an awareness of the issues they are facing. My exBPDgf admitted to me that she was pushing me away and that she was hurting me with her lying and cheating, and I'm sure that I'm not an isolated case. When you know that you have an issue that hurts both yourself and other people, then when you do nothing about it that is still a choice.

I still am blown away by the quote I mentioned in the other thread: "Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past." We all wanted a particular outcome or future that we did not get. To me the forgiveness is both for me and her, that I accept all that happened was the reality of our situation, and it couldn't have been different because of the people we were and the things we did at the time. Moving forward, I would be foolish not to remember the lessons of the past and repeat the same mistakes, nor do I have any expectations of change,  So it's the forgiveness, the giving up of what I thought the past should've been that can give me feelings of peace towards both myself and towards her.

[Turkish]

When you know that you have an issue that hurts both yourself and other people, then when you do nothing about it that is still a choice.

That's great, lc, I am going to use that one on mine if she tries to bring up stuff from our r/s, talking about I all but which shut down.

I still am blown away by the quote I mentioned in the other thread: "Forgiveness is giving up all hope of a better past."

That's two great nuggets of wisdom I'll copy into my bpdfamily.com file (which is 35 pages long after only 2.5 mos of being here) of stuff to think about.

My problem isn't the past (done, no fixing it), so much, as the present and future.

[santa]

I see it as a crutch.

Why be held accountable for all this crazy behavior when you can just explain it all away with some "personality disorder" and have a built in excuse for any wacky stuff you do?

These people basically terrorize others and then want them to apologize for being terrorized because the other person "can't help it".

All these loonies should be in prison if you ask me. Keep them from bothering us.

[caughtnreleased]

Hey Community,

When I first came to the Leaving Board I was devastated by the realization that I would have to be accountable for my side of the street in getting better….especially when I was stuck in blame mode…but eventually…as tough as it was... .I came to.

I have no doubt that mental illness & BPD is as real as my hand but I'm curious about your thoughts. Do our ex's choose to be sick? How much accountability do our ex's have in getting help for their disorder?

I was triggered to ask this question due to a thread about forgiveness. Can we really fully forgive someone who chooses to remain sick? I have accepted that my ex is REALLY a sick man; but forgiveness I ebb back and forth on... .

Spell

I can't remember where I saw it, perhaps on these boards, but I read a quote about health, especially mental health, being a choice. So no, I don't think mental illness is a choice, however mental health is. What's the difference? Well I suppose if you are sick, or unhealthy, you didn't choose to be that way, however you do have the choice to take better care of yourself.  It doesn't mean you'll be "cured", but it can probably definitely alleviate many symptoms.  But awareness that you CAN take better care of yourself is probably also needed.

[Ironmanrises]

Is mental illness a choice?

I was diagnosed with Major Depression following my first suicide attempt in 2009, and had a recurring depressive episode which lead to a second suicide attempt in 2010. Major depression(Major Depressive Disorder) is considered to be a mental illness. It isnt BPD. I know. Did i choose to have this? No. For me, it just is. Many things factored into me having this illness. I did not consciously go out and choose to have a mental illness which led me wanting to die, not once, but twice. I almost succeeded the first time.

My accountability for this illness is to myself first and then my immediate family. I was a threat only to myself, thus direct ramifications of my illness affect me first and then my immediate family. I had to look my parents in the eyes after my first suicide attempt while in a psych ward(along with the other "loonies" some of you on here refer to people with a mental illness), and that was not easy for me. How do you explain to your father, that you wanted to die? My mental illness has direct ramifications on me first.

Now someone with BPD, an illness that has a direct impact on the person most intimate with them, has to have a greater accountability to said person. However, their disorder, which exists to deny its very existence, renders that accountability moot.

[Octoberfest]

Is mental illness a choice?

I was diagnosed with Major Depression following my first suicide attempt in 2009, and had a recurring depressive episode which lead to a second suicide attempt in 2010. Major depression(Major Depressive Disorder) is considered to be a mental illness. It isnt BPD. I know. Did i choose to have this? No. For me, it just is. Many things factored into me having this illness. I did not consciously go out and choose to have a mental illness which led me wanting to die, not once, but twice. I almost succeeded the first time.

My accountability for this illness is to myself first and then my immediate family. I was a threat only to myself, thus direct ramifications of my illness affect me first and then my immediate family. I had to look my parents in the eyes after my first suicide attempt while in a psych ward(along with the other "loonies" some of you on here refer to people with a mental illness), and that was not easy for me. How do you explain to your father, that you wanted to die? My mental illness has direct ramifications on me first.

Now someone with BPD, an illness that has a direct impact on the person most intimate with them, has to have a greater accountability to said person. However, their disorder, which exists to deny its very existence, renders that accountability moot.

About as well said as I have ever seen it said. 

[BuildingFromScratch]

To me, most mental illness is a misunderstanding of where to get your self worth. I suffered a similar misunderstanding and put all of my self worth into her and my neurotic obsessions. She thinks her self worth comes from her movies, books, tv shows, her pets, her relationships, her "correctness" and other such illusions. I don't know if it's worth explaining since I think everyone goes through this journey to figure out where their true self worth is and no amount of explaining can really cause you to "get it". But we get our self worth, our worthiness to exists from the fact that we exist at all. It just wasn't revealed to many of us in our childhood, like it should have been. And so we become crazy.

We can either have our life be a scrambling to find our worthiness to exist, or an expression of our own and others worthiness to exist. Took me 32 years to finally get it. I just have to let it seep into my consciousness more. I think the expression "to give love" is incorrect. It should be "to reveal love", since it exists in everything and always has.

[RecycledNoMore]

which exists to deny its very existence

That sentence will stay with me forever.Thank you Ironman.

[BuildingFromScratch]

Gotta agree, good point Ironman.

[Learning_curve74]

I can't remember where I saw it, perhaps on these boards, but I read a quote about health, especially mental health, being a choice. So no, I don't think mental illness is a choice, however mental health is. What's the difference? Well I suppose if you are sick, or unhealthy, you didn't choose to be that way, however you do have the choice to take better care of yourself.

This is a GREAT way to look at it. Thanks for posting this, caughtnreleased! 

There's a difference between saying "can't" and saying "won't". While we shouldn't deny the facts that mental illness is difficult and sometimes people with mental illness are hard to reach, we also shouldn't reduce them to "can't" when they are choosing "won't".

[Turkish]

I can't remember where I saw it, perhaps on these boards, but I read a quote about health, especially mental health, being a choice. So no, I don't think mental illness is a choice, however mental health is. What's the difference? Well I suppose if you are sick, or unhealthy, you didn't choose to be that way, however you do have the choice to take better care of yourself.

This is a GREAT way to look at it. Thanks for posting this, caughtnreleased! 

There's a difference between saying "can't" and saying "won't". While we shouldn't deny the facts that mental illness is difficult and sometimes people with mental illness are hard to reach, we also shouldn't reduce them to "can't" when they are choosing "won't".

I just got back from my T and I brought up the subject in this thread. Since he is a Christian counselor (practices according to his patients, though, he's not a preacher), I figured I would get the mercy and graceful response from that point of view. He is, however, very direct as he admits. He's gentle, but calls things like he sees them. He recounted the story of Jesus and the invalid at the Pool of Bethesda from John 5: Now there is in Jerusalem near the Sheep Gate a pool, which in Aramaic is called Bethesda[a] and which is surrounded by five covered colonnades. 3 Here a great number of disabled people used to lie—the blind, the lame, the paralyzed. [4] 5 One who was there had been an invalid for thirty-eight years. 6 When Jesus saw him lying there and learned that he had been in this condition for a long time, he asked him, “Do you want to get well?”

My T said that certainly the guy, while being "invalid" had it well to survive there for 38 years, people bringing him food, drink, to the bathroom, etc... .but the key thing he was asked was what I highlighted above. Do you want to get well? Many don't, to excuse their bad behaviors, and continue to leave paths of destruction in their wakes.

My X wanted to, and wants to. Previously, however, she would only see her T when her depressions got really bad. Then shut down any thought of getting medication. Probably gaslighting her T and not being open. When she felt "better" (which had a lot to do with me being around), then she would stop. But the underlying issue was never addressed.

And here we are, and here I am.