Recycle Question

[Pretty Woman]

Hey Guys,

   Got a question... .

Ok my gf left me six times in 18mo.  One of those was for someone else.  The rest were short breaks where there was no one. So is each one considered a recycle or just when it involves another person?

[oblivian2013]

I think they both qualify. My cluster B left several times, I know that there was no one else, but this last time I can not be too sure. Since we are getting divorced, it really doesn't matter.

[fromheeltoheal]

To clarify, what happened was things got so bad that you broke up, either she left you or you left her, doesn't matter, and then once things cooled off and perceptions changed for both of you, you got back together.  It's irrelevant if there was someone else for either of you during the split.

To me recycle means the cycle of the disorder repeats.  Remember initially, during the idealization phase, she is a vulnerable seducer, then the clinger, then the hater, all phases of the disorder cycle.  Splitting is a common defense mechanism, at first you were god's gift and perfect, and then you're complete scum, because borderlines view things in all or nothing, you're either all bad or all good, they can't integrate your good and bad qualities into one person.  We all do that by the way; think of someone you used to like and then had a falling out with: we tend to accentuate the negative in someone we're no longer "talking to", because it's makes it justifiable in our heads.  A borderline just takes that to the extreme.

The push/pull nature of the disorder, that creates the cycles to begin with, is such that after a period of separation, feelings of abandonment start to be prevalent for the borderline, and they split you the other way and start focusing on the good again, you become attractive, they contact you, and it's off to the races once again.

And of course you are as responsible as she is; you took her back, so you too chose to ignore the reasons you broke up, and back into the fire you went.  To someone without the disorder the mental workings of a borderline is complete chaos, chaos for them too, they just don't know any other way and have been living with it their entire lives.  It's up to you, the only 'sane' one, and I use the term loosely because I didn't consider myself sane throughout the proceedings, and BPD is not technically insanity, but you know what I mean, you being the only sane one can choose to get back on the crazytrain or not.  Someone has to take care of you, and it probably won't be her.

Anyway, got windy.  A recycle has nothing to do with other suitors.  Take care of you!

[Octoberfest]

As heeltoheal mentioned, it doesn't matter if another person was involved. Any time you two went your separate ways for whatever reason and then came back together counts.  It doesn't do you any service to be nitpicky about it either- I have seen here a poll concerning recycles with different judgements depending on how many times it has happened.  I think around 4-6 was considered unhealthy, and 7-9 very unhealthy and 10+ toxic or something like that.  There don't have to be ANY recycles for the relationship to have been unhealthy.

[fromheeltoheal]

Yes.  I only recycled once with my borderline, I left her because my gut feel told me she wasn't being faithful to me, turns out my gut was right once again, it's never wrong.  But when we got back together things were never the same, trust had been broken both ways, and the real chaos started, with things getting so painful for me that I left for good not long after.

I can't imagine what it would be like to recycle 10 times or something; that's just insanity to me, and if I'd gone through that it probably would also include broken possessions, police involvement, violence, bloodshed, jail time.  I had to get off the crazytrain because I saw where it was going, maybe you guys had something more sedate.

[Pearl55]

I didn't let my husband to recycle me because I kept reading the right informations and believed all the facts. It was really hard especially because my husband is a psychiatrist himself so you can imagine how hard was it!

Unfortunately, we are only statistics as non-borderlines, they are cunning actress and actors. It's really heartbreaking when you read other posts and their partners really try to work out their marriages whereas they took their marriages so seriously!

[Pretty Woman]

Pearl,

   I agree with you.  Each time things got worse.  Not with me but she got nastier with each break. 

[Perfidy]

IF... .She had left the first time I told her to get out of my house I think that would have been it. I don't think I would have taken her back.

IF you can count each time that I told her to get out as a recycle it would number in the dozens. Maybe more. In retrospect it should have never happened in the first place. If is a pretty big word.

[Suzn]

Each time things got worse.  Not with me but she got nastier with each break. 

Things got worse for both of us in my experience. For me, my anxiety grew with each reconciliation. It took both of us to get back together. Waiting for the other shoe to drop, because I knew it would eventually, became my everyday expectation. To be on guard. To always be in survival mode. To enable, by lying and helping hide things for another person. Not healthy. My "failure" to make things work was a very hard pill to swallow and by the time I ended it for good I was completely exhausted emotionally and fell into a deep depression. Got through the worst of the depression on my own however I sought a therapist to help teach me about me and to help me figure out why I stayed.

[blurry]

 Things got worse for me because my resentment built up more with each recycle. Looking back, her behavior from day one was textbook BPD behavior, the first couple recycles I didn't know anything about BPD, and subsequent recycles, even after I finally knew what BPD was, I let resentment overwhelm me and more or less added to her predictable behavior by turning the breakups into all out, ugly, nasty war.

It seriously takes a special person, one way better than me, to manage their own behavior when faced with BPD. Believe me, I know for a fact that ill never love another woman the way I did this one, ill never have the same feelings again. But bottom line, I can't change the facts and no matter what I do, she wont stay in the relationship, period. So I'm moving on. I know 110pct that she's gonna reach out again, and I have no doubt whatsoever, the cycle will repeat if I let it. Doing the exact same thing over and over, and expecting different results is insanity... .

[Pearl55]

Blurry,

Can I ask you how many years you've been married?

[winston3]

Ugh, I remember when my ex recycled me by traveling halfway across the world to meet me for the most amazing romantic trip that I set up. But when she was going to leave on that last night, I found myself looking for a drink to calm my nerves... .I thought, "After she leaves, anything goes." At that moment I was the ideal man to her. I had everything together... .she had an amazing experience. She wanted us to get back together at any cost.

Fast forward over a year to now. - I've been devalued and painted black... .She views another guy as this perfect "stable" man who has everything together. She had no patience for me and I'm out on my own again. This has been the worst time for me.

But yeah 10 years and about 10 times being recycled and every one counts even though other guys weren't involved before. (rather, I let go of other girls to go back)

[blurry]

The relationship started with a brief 3 week fling in 08. I didn't realize it, but when she facebooked me out of the blue, 17 months ago, in may of 12, that was the first recycle. Basically got married almost 5 months ago and I haven't seen her in 4 months now.

Want to say SHE recycled me, but I really need to say WE recycled 7 times before we got married, and twice over the phone during the last 4 months. I don't mean false breakups where its an idle threat but neither really leaves, I mean she flat out, in cold blood, dumped me, abruptly, for either little, or no apparent reason, most times after fights that a "normal" woman would never leave over.

So to answer the question, we were back from our honeymoon 3 weeks before it ended. I had no visions of marriage solving any problems whatsoever. I somehow thought her being married to me wouldd somehow make her hesitate before ending things, thus giving me time to correct my own reaction to her behavior and save us another breakup.

I couldn't be more wrong, her patterns never waiver, she's a perfect model of BPD in every respect. Its like trying to stop a guerilla force whos hell bent on destruction, or the worlds largest meteorite as it hurdles... .well, you guys know what I mean, .

[blurry]

 One thing that seems interesting I should add, out of the 9 recycles, every one was her basically ending it, and her re-engaging and begging me to go back to her, with all the false promises and pleading ect. Except the last time, that was the first time I actually got her to get back together with me, granted it only lasted a week and was only over the phone that we were technically back together.

Every recycles reinforces my belief that this is just fruitless and it'll never change unless she gets some serious help. Doing the exact same thing, over and over, and expecting different results... .

[Pretty Woman]

Blurry,

  I think that is why all my exes exes take her back at some point... .even years later.

My whole relationship I heard about this woman named Liz (not her real name). Liz was the one who dumped her, Liz is the "one that got away"... .

It amazed me how she talked about this Liz. When we first got together she was talking to a woman named Linda (not her real name). I was like, who is this Linda? Turns out it was the ex I replaced... .the one she had to "block her number from" because she was stalking her.

Ironically this woman is a prison psychologist who works with murderers (and she couldn't even handle the wrath of my ex)!



All I know is as our relationship progressed (if you want to call it progress, ha ha) she was talking to both these women until Linda got a girlfriend and then Liz was going through a divorce. She ended up leaving me for her soulmate only to return a month later.

My ex recycles all her exes or tries to keep them ensnared.

She knows I know this and am on to her.  Here's hoping she releases me for real this time. I'm out but who knows!

[Suzn]

Here's hoping she releases me for real this time. I'm out but who knows!

Earth Angel this is your decision. Not hers. From all you've said, her history shows she will be in contact at some point. Your statement above says "I have no control over what happens to me." You are the only one who can make the decision to change this cycle. (If she indeed repeats her history here)

Is this the type of relationship you want for yourself? 

[Pretty Woman]

Hi Susz,

  I should rephrase that.  Thanks for pointing out.  

What I meant is I truly hope she has cut off contact.  I know I am painted black and any return would do me absolutely no good. A leopard can't change it's spots.  As much as this hurts now it would hurt more to repeat this pattern  i cant feel bad ever or express emotion or she will dump me  I dont deserve this. I am just grateful she has a new focus even though it hurts to know it was a friend of mine.

History repeats.  This woman tried to stay my friend ( the ow). I don't care to triangulate with either.  No thanks!



Now on a side note, I told my ex her ex told me this is not my fault.  In her head she thinks I contacted all these exes. She told me i betrayed her and she will never trust or speak to me again, I am different than her exes. 

So I really don't know. I mean she's never cut all forms of communication like this for this long... .except when there is a replacement.  She also tossed all my pictures out Abd pottery we made together... .something she nev did before.  I do think out of sight out of mind... .I don't need to worry about a recycle just work on getting better. 

[Pretty Woman]

All my recycles had a pattern... .three months and she would dump me.  We got back together last time in mid July only for us to make it til late October.

[Ironmanrises]

If you got really close to her it is a possibility that the recycle pattern could take longer. It appears to be that for me currently. I got super close to her and her kids and that probably pushed me even further away. Just a thought.

[Pretty Woman]

Ironman,

   Mine was more that I think she perceived rejection not closeness.

In May my best friend told me she couldn't be my friend anymore because I was gay. It devestated me. I had dinner plans with my ex and I cancelled because I was feeling down and needed time to myself. She told me, "fine, we are done! I am over you"!

In a panic I went to her apartment. Someone let me in and I went to her floor and knocked. She was on the phone (I believe with my replacement). She screamed, "Jesus Christ! Now she's stalking me!"

So not normal.  I know this, Ironman. I know I deserve better than this. Who does that to someone?

[Ironmanrises]

Her perceived rejection was triggered by her closeness to you. A person with a disorder of intimacy, a la BPD, does that. I know it really hurts.   

[Pretty Woman]

This last break came two days after my best friend at work stopped talking to me. She is very vocal so I knew something was very wrong. My ex and I were away for a weekend and I was really upset. She was not loving at all and mad I wasn't into us and our weekend. I apologized but told her I was having issues with the friend. We run a social group with 300 members outside of work together... .there was a lot on my mind.

She (the ex) had a friend of a friend who lost their grandchild.  We were supposed to go to a Halloween party at their house so that was cancelled. My ex was devestated over the death of this child she didn't even know but when I mentioned my father was diagnosed with Parkinsons she didn't bat an eye.

The weekend was hard and she actually asked me if we were over. I didn't answer. I was so upset she couldn't see I felt bad.  I lept up and sat on her lap crying. I told her I needed her and loved her more than anything.

Her response... ."Well I'll see how this goes for awhile".

That night she went out for drinks with my replacement. Dumped me two days later.

See, perceived rejection not closeness.  Everytime I was under any stress she would dump me. I had to literally walk on eggshells and not express any emotion.

[Pretty Woman]

Ironman,

   Interesting story... .

My replacement just lost her job on Nov 27th. It was outsourced to India. She is unemployed and just divorced from a man who left her four years ago... .

she waited for him to come back. Four years! She emailed/called. He never spoke to her again. He showed in court and would not look or speak to her.

She is very insecure. She is also dating an airline pilot AND my ex.

I cannot see this working. My ex wants a partner. A lesbian partner. This woman is me all over again as far as this being a "new" experience. I can only see this triggering my ex's insecurities ten fold. That and the fact this woman wants kids... .

my ex did when she was mirroring me. In the end she did not.

It's awful I hope this is an epic fail. My ex stresses out with the holidays coming up. She almost always dumped me around a major holiday (before or after).

Not sure what will happen but there is curiosity on my part. If anything, to prove to me this isn't fully my issue.

[seeking balance]

Ironman,

   Interesting story... .

My replacement just lost her job on Nov 27th. It was outsourced to India. She is unemployed and just divorced from a man who left her four years ago... .

she waited for him to come back. Four years! She emailed/called. He never spoke to her again. He showed in court and would not look or speak to her.

She is very insecure. She is also dating an airline pilot AND my ex.

I cannot see this working. My ex wants a partner. A lesbian partner. This woman is me all over again as far as this being a "new" experience. I can only see this triggering my ex's insecurities ten fold. That and the fact this woman wants kids... .

my ex did when she was mirroring me. In the end she did not.

It's awful I hope this is an epic fail. My ex stresses out with the holidays coming up. She almost always dumped me around a major holiday (before or after).

Not sure what will happen but there is curiosity on my part. If anything, to prove to me this isn't fully my issue.

Earth Angel - sometimes there is a point on these boards where we know more about someone's ex than we do about the person we are supposed to be supporting on these boards.  We have all done it, and someone has pointed it out to most of us and we turn a bit of a corner.

How can we focus a bit more on you and your question about being recycled.

Suzn pointed something out really good - recycle only happens when you let it.

You mentioned recycle is wrong term - but is it? 

What was going on in you emotionally each of the times you went back? 

What were you feeling then that perhaps is different now?

[Pretty Woman]

Seeking,

   I think I have been looking for validation I myself am not crazy. I know this is not a normal pattern and I obviously have issues if I kept taking her back. I think a lot of it had to do with her being a) my first lesbian relationship b) my first relationship in seven years.

I haven't dated much and I had no idea about BPD or mental illness. I have felt like a lot of people on the boards, that I could have done something different. I know I could not. The outcome would still be the same.

As far as recycling I know it takes two and I would have to be a willing participant for that to happen. Even with her history, I truly believe she is done in attempting which is helpful in my healing process. I could be wrong but I am not worried about it anymore. I am more concerned with getting better.

As far as ruminating... .I still obess over this. It hurts that a friend who knows what I went through is with my ex. I am jealous and I don't like losing (as my therapist loves to point out)! But what would I be winning? More of the same.

[seeking balance]

Seeking,

   I think I have been looking for validation I myself am not crazy. I know this is not a normal pattern and I obviously have issues if I kept taking her back.

You are not crazy, her behavior was not aligned with most peoples definition of love and commitment.

So, what are the issues - or even more specific - what are the feelings you have (not love  ) to where you kept taking her back so many times.  Focusing on your own emotions is how we heal.  I remember a Distinguished member telling me very direct - ok, she has her issues, now focus on you and your therapy.  I was a bit jolted, but that was the turning point for me.

As far as recycling I know it takes two and I would have to be a willing participant for that to happen. Even with her history, I truly believe she is done in attempting which is helpful in my healing process. I could be wrong but I am not worried about it anymore. I am more concerned with getting better.

1/2 this is about her - again, if you were not "worried" why would you start a thread?

Let's dig deep here - are you worried if she calls you, you will go back?

It's ok if you are, until you can own your feelings, it is hard to change our own patterns.  This is the foundation of dbt - feeling feelings, and expressing them in healthy ways.  Mindfulness.  These same skills work beautifully for us nons as we heal.

As far as ruminating... .I still obess over this. It hurts that a friend who knows what I went through is with my ex. I am jealous and I don't like losing (as my therapist loves to point out)! But what would I be winning? More of the same.

What techniques are you using to stop or slow down obsessing?

[Pretty Woman]

Seeking,

    Yes, I am having issues with "not knowing". It is making it hard for me to move past this.

The only "solace" I have is that she has blocked me from everything... .phone, email and FB. She also threw out all my pictures so I am thinking she will forget me "object consistancy" AND she has my replacement.

In the past all these things were temporary. This time it's been over a month (November 4th).

I am hurting bad.  I don't need to convince myself or need more proof there is a problem and it's me letting go of this.  I have been so conditioned to her coming back each time.

I know this is the end and I have to give myself closure.

[Changingman]

I sound really healthy with advice, but pretty messed up still. I hate that word 'trigger' but it's so perfect. I'm now having trouble with an xBF of hers who I met before her, he introduced us. Her best friend obviously.

He's got something wrong with him to, maybe the same. I think the same, more narsacistic though.

I told him nicely I didn't want the hear from him for a while, but no boundaries he phones me every few weeks wanting a friendship, partner drink drugs, place to stay. I never answer I've now blocked his number.

I don't want her to have any way back to me.

The traits of BPD waif are so exact it's mind boggling. She feels like a robot, or one of those disturbingly realistic sex dolls that we've all seen on a documentary, waiting to be dressed up and ******, but toxic, radioactive, poisonous.

She is it, can't really see anything else now, just me/whoever mirrored and the disorder.

Just a void with chaos. Chewed fingered, sex pierced scabby necked, dyed red hair, broken toothed, alcoholic veins throbbing, tears rolling, angry or hurt.

[Suzn]

I know this is the end and I have to give myself closure.

This is what grieving feels like. It hurts and it's hard.    Feeling the pain all the way through to the other side is healthy.

Would it help for you to be the one to decide where you go from here? That decision alone can be empowering.