Tell me I'm on the right track

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

When another person says (1)----> "you make me feel good"... .Shouldn't they really be saying (2)----> "I feel good"... .Because I can't make them feel one way or the other? Statement 1 is not taking responsibility where statement 2 is being responsible for one's own feelings? Do I have that right?

Now here's statement (3)-----> "I feel good because of you". Is this the same as statement 1? This is where I get lost.

[Perfidy]

When another person says (1)----> "you make me feel good"... .Shouldn't they really be saying (2)----> "I feel good"... .Because I can't make them feel one way or the other? Statement 1 is not taking responsibility where statement 2 is being responsible for one's own feelings? Do I have that right?

Now here's statement (3)-----> "I feel good because of you". Is this the same as statement 1? This is where I get lost.

[fromheeltoheal]

I say we feel good or bad depending on what we focus on.  You can feel good any time by focusing on as many great moments from your past as you want, and you can also feel bad by focusing on death, destruction, global warming, that time we were dumped, the time our borderline hit us in the face in a moment of rage, whatever.  It's all about focus.

Now if a pretty girl is looking at you with that gleam in her eye and smiling, we focus on that and it makes us feel good; this gorgeous girl is looking at me in a way that is very validating.

So yes, we are always responsible for our own feelings, but it is common to assign that responsibility to someone else.  And if someone knows that certain things will cause you to feel good and they keep doing them, then yes, the person makes you feel good.  The opposite is also true: once we're in a relationship for a while the other person knows how to "push our buttons", meaning they know what to do or say that will cause us to focus on something negative, and then feel bed.

So you're right: "I feel good because of you" is more accurate, or better yet, "I feel good because of what you said", or even more accurate, "when you said that, it caused me to focus on something pleasurable, and then I felt good".  Too cumbersome though, even though accurate; "you make me feel good" is just a common shortcut.

And also, it's not what happens or what is said, it's what we make it mean, what we choose to focus on.  Two people could see the same event or hear the same words and feel completely differently about it because of what they each make it mean and what parts they focus on.

Fun stuff!

[seeking balance]

When another person says (1)----> "you make me feel good"... .Shouldn't they really be saying (2)----> "I feel good"... .Because I can't make them feel one way or the other? Statement 1 is not taking responsibility where statement 2 is being responsible for one's own feelings? Do I have that right?

Now here's statement (3)-----> "I feel good because of you". Is this the same as statement 1? This is where I get lost.

Well, in theory nobody makes anybody feel a certain way.  In reality, people's actions do effect peoples emotions unless you are very very evolved in mindfulness.

Most folks, however, don't have a clue what they really feel and why... .your example - "I feel good because of you" - digging deeper, would look like "I feel loved because you remembered I liked cream and sugar in my coffee".  Emotion=specific action.

Not sure if this answers your question.

[Perfidy]

 ultimately I am responsible for my own feelings. I know this beyond a doubt. Is this not true for all humans? Isn't this the line we cross when we lose ourselves?

[seeking balance]

ultimately I am responsible for my own feelings. I know this beyond a doubt. Is this not true for all humans? Isn't this the line we cross when we lose ourselves?

We are all responsible for managing our own feelings - yes.

Is this theoretical or is there some real life question here?

[Perfidy]

Trying to apply this to my real life. Talked about this with a counsellor. Can't really get my brain around it. I keep expecting everyone else to know this too.

[seeking balance]

Trying to apply this to my real life.

can you help me understand what specifically you mean here?

Talked about this with a counsellor. Can't really get my brain around it. I keep expecting everyone else to know this too.

This concept is pretty emotionally and spiritually mature, you know that right?

[Perfidy]

I like what you said about the shortcut ironman. And yes... SB I get it. The maturity part. I think that might be why I stumble with it... .I expect people to be mature enough to be responsible for their own feelings and not blame me for them. It's been bugging me.

What I mean by applying this to my real life is to live by this. It's hard when people shortcut and change the meaning. I can see that. I have to accept that not everybody is going to "get" this. I may be left holding garbage that doesn't belong to me.

[fromheeltoheal]

I think if we have a solid set of core values, empowering identities and strong boundaries, what other people say is irrelevant, in that it won't affect us.  Of course the process of building relationships, intimate or otherwise, includes lowering our boundaries a little to let people in and expressing vulnerability, at which point what those people say to us matters, and then there's a need for continued open, honest communication as the relationships get stronger and closer.

I'm opting for simple lately: there are people who bring me up and people who bring me down.  Remove the ones who bring me down, and strengthen and build relationships with people who bring me up.  We're social animals after all, imperfect too, but that's OK, letting the right ones in makes all of life better.

[Perfidy]

H2H... Yes I agree... .However, not everyone has that level of maturity. What you spoke of with core values and identity... .I don't encounter that often. Sometimes I actually think someone is mature enough to be responsible for their own feelings and then they dump it squarely on me. I know I have no power over anyone. I'm not greatly argumentative. I'm certainly not passive either. When I'm asked or addressed I speak my mind clearly. I refrain from using confusing language. I try to be direct as possible. Sometimes I get the feeling that some people don't understand me when I speak with them. Maybe just improper use of language.

[seeking balance]

What I mean by applying this to my real life is to live by this. It's hard when people shortcut and change the meaning. I can see that. I have to accept that not everybody is going to "get" this. I may be left holding garbage that doesn't belong to me.

It is frustrating, but also freeing to just accept this and be compassionate to them without taking it on.

Knowing our own emotions and what motivates the anger or frustration can help us in acceptance of others.

[seeking balance]

H2H... Yes I agree... .However, not everyone has that level of maturity.

nope, emotional maturity is rarely taught in homes or in schools.

Many people cannot clearly identify an emotion or root causes.  The boards themselves serve as a great example of this.  How often do we see someone bargaining with themselves regarding contact... .it isn't about contact it is about short-cutting the pain.  But everyone must be given their own space to process with compassion.  Supporting, validating, yet helping get some unstuck has been a great learning experience for me in detachment of other peoples journeys... .knowing when you can support versus knowing when to let go... .that is a very good lesson from these boards.

What you spoke of with core values and identity... .I don't encounter that often. Sometimes I actually think someone is mature enough to be responsible for their own feelings and then they dump it squarely on me.

How are they routinely dumping on you if you have boundaries?  Could it be a boundary issue on your part to know yourself enough of when to stay out of the "dump" path?

Sometimes I get the feeling that some people don't understand me when I speak with them. Maybe just improper use of language.

Do you ask for feedback? 

You might be right, sometimes we humans don't understand correctly.  Another great lesson of these boards is me learning how to ask if I understand correctly - and there are many times, I don't... .that is ok, we are all human with different life experiences and a different frame of reference.

I am still kinda trying to understand the real life aspect that prompted this question versus the theory component.  Is there a specific incident that you talked over with your T that has you stuck?

[Perfidy]

You made me mad. You make me want to use drugs. You make me want to get drunk. You make me want to kill myself. You make me sick. ... .Umm... .No I don't

[seeking balance]

You made me mad. You make me want to use drugs. You make me want to get drunk. You make me want to kill myself. You make me sick. ... .Umm... .No I don't

Specifically, who said this to you?

[Perfidy]

Her

[seeking balance]

Her

By her, do you mean your person with BPD?

So, your authentic question is why did she put her feelings on you?

[Perfidy]

It's not about her and it hasn't been for quite a while. It something that came up in a session... .I know she is ill.

[seeking balance]

It's not about her and it hasn't been for quite a while. It something that came up in a session... .I know she is ill.

so why did you just quote her?

[Perfidy]

She isn't "my" anything. I dislike the possessive  

[Perfidy]

Because she is a good bad example

[seeking balance]

good luck figuring it out.

cheers!

[Perfidy]

I don't think I will figure it out. I think it's always going to baffle me. How we give power over one another with a simple word

[goldylamont]

Perfidy, the topic has piqued my interest but I'm pretty confused as to what exactly you are asking. Can you rephrase your question again and perhaps we can offer better insight?

[Perfidy]

The biggest reason I want to know more about this idea is that I am trying to establish healthier behaviors. If I can get this part I will know where you end and I begin. It has been very difficult for me to find where I am responsible and where I'm not. I have tried communicating this to others. The result hasn't been pretty. If I offended you SB I'm sorry.

[Perfidy]

GL... It's about something extremely sensitive. I feel like its the reason people get on the wrong side of each other. Who is responsible for whose feelings in a r/s. by taking personal inventory I believe that I am responsible for my feelings and no one else is or can be.

[seeking balance]

If I offended you SB I'm sorry.

Nope, I am not offended - if I were, I would be sure to tell you.   I honestly had nothing else to add because I couldn't figure out what you were saying or where you were going.  Thus, letting it go to someone else.

[Perfidy]

The question... Are we responsible entirely for all of our own feelings? I think the answer should always be yes to that. I could be wrong. I don't know. It seems like in the past I have been held accountable for the feelings of others. Not just the previous BPD r/s. my marriage... She wanted to make me responsible for her sometimes too. More than blaming...

[Perfidy]

I did not marry the pwBPD by the way. I know it could be taken that way by what I wrote.

[Learning_curve74]

You made me mad. You make me want to use drugs. You make me want to get drunk. You make me want to kill myself. You make me sick. ... .Umm... .No I don't

Her Perfidy, are you asking specifically about how you deal with people who say these kinds of things to you?

I have a friend who says she can be friends with difficult people because, in her words, she doesn't participate in their drama. She just disengages. I've seen it, she is not necessarily validating like recommended on the boards, she tells them she disagrees it's her fault, e.g. their deal is their deal, and then walks away for the moment. I'm not saying this is the best way for you to handle difficult people who blame you, but it is my friend's strategy and works for her.

I would definitely be upset if somebody close to me told me these things, I would definitely tell that person that it's not my intention for them to feel bad and that I'm sorry they feel that way over something I've done, I think there must be some reason why they feel that way, and ask them if they can specifically tell me what these reasons might be. That's just me though, maybe that won't work for everybody.

I agree that we should be responsible for managing our responses to our own feelings. I don't feel that we are necessarily in control of our feelings; they arise out of who we are, what is going on around us, and all the experiences we've had in the past. I do believe that we can reshape ourselves so we don't automatically have the same feelings in response to certain triggers, or we can at least reshape our thinking in response to those feelings so that we process the feelings and come to a healthier outcome.

For example, I know that I had a very invalidating father who was always critical of me, never said anything good to me and only ever criticized me, so I never felt good enough for him, never felt loved. It makes me very sensitive to criticism and rejection. So anytime I experience a similar interaction with other people, the same bad feelings come right back for me. I can feel bad and unworthy, but I have to process my feelings and not be a slave to them in order to live a healthier life in accordance to what I want to be and in line with what I value. For example, I value being kind and compassionate, so in general I resist telling a person that I perceive as hypercritical to f**k off.    I also recognize that I can slow down and not react immediately, then examine the criticism against the facts and decide what I will do about it. This is what I want to do instead of telling that person, "you p*ss me off!"

[goldylamont]

The question... Are we responsible entirely for all of our own feelings? I think the answer should always be yes to that. I could be wrong. I don't know. It seems like in the past I have been held accountable for the feelings of others. Not just the previous BPD r/s. my marriage... She wanted to make me responsible for her sometimes too. More than blaming...

Perfidy I will respectfully disagree? I put a question mark because I'm figuring out why--allow me to figure out why over the next few sentences   OK, well, ok actually I do feel like, yes, we are responsible for our own feelings ultimately. However also the people around us affect us emotionally as they should. This is by design. This is natural. Humans are social creatures and in fact, isolating a human is one of the worst forms of torture you can put someone through. This is why people in solitary confinement (prisons) can lose their minds. This is why Tom Hanks talks to a soccer ball in that movie where he is stranded alone on that island   Humans are naturally social beings. We are meant to interact with each other and it is natural for us to have an emotional effect on each other. So, I don't think we are entirely responsible for each emotional response we have from other people--however we are responsible for continuing to be emotionally involved with people if they make us unhealthy.

Let's say you meet someone and become friendly or romantically involved. Then this person is abusive to you, but also is fun and supportive of you at times. Our emotions are there to give us signals about the people we are interacting with. And it's up to us to listen to what our emotions are telling us about others so that we can be as healthy as possible. If you are hurt/angered/betrayed by someone then this is normal. And the fact that you experience these emotions, caused by someone else is normal. Yet if you stay around this type of negative energy and are unable to separate then the responsibility lies on you as a person to do so.

I can do mean things to others, and in this case it's up to me to recognize things from their point of view and to stop behaving this way. Likewise the opposite is true. If somebody is blaming you for things and after much self-thought you don't believe you are the source of their issues then it's important for you to tell them this.

These are just my thoughts in any case. Does this help?