Cheating Question

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

If you have confronted your BPD with the fact you know they have or are cheating, what happened? How was their reaction? Do they feel/guilt or remorse? I am wondering what to expect. I am 99% sure my BF is cheating and the way he can put this show on in front of me (he does act guilty at times though in my mind) just blows my mind... these conversations he told me about how he is a "one woman guy" "you are lucky to have a guy like me who is focused on one woman only", etc... .I am trying to wrap my head around all of this and understand it

[sadinnc98]

If you have confronted your BPD with the fact you know they have or are cheating, what happened? How was their reaction? Do they feel/guilt or remorse? I am wondering what to expect. I am 99% sure my BF is cheating and the way he can put this show on in front of me (he does act guilty at times though in my mind) just blows my mind... these conversations he told me about how he is a "one woman guy" "you are lucky to have a guy like me who is focused on one woman only", etc... .I am trying to wrap my head around all of this and understand it

[Turkish]

If you have confronted your BPD with the fact you know they have or are cheating, what happened? How was their reaction? Do they feel/guilt or remorse? I am wondering what to expect. I am 99% sure my BF is cheating and the way he can put this show on in front of me (he does act guilty at times though in my mind) just blows my mind... these conversations he told me about how he is a "one woman guy" "you are lucky to have a guy like me who is focused on one woman only", etc... .I am trying to wrap my head around all of this and understand it

it took me seven tries,  three of them after I  quoted back to her the text her paramour sent on her phone  that I found. I  got the apologies about like my 3 year old offers.  over a month later,  she even " accidentally"  sent a  text  meant  for her "Love"  to me.  you can imagine how that made me feel!  after the guy had the nerve to call her when we were sitting down to dinner with our kids. I  got " what do you want me to say,  that I'm sorry?" notice that's not an apology,  as if it would have made any difference at that point.  She then admitted that she knows she is [ mentally]  sick,  pretty much trying to take any judgement away from me,  and accountability for her. 

[sadinnc98]

Thanks for your response... I am trying to gauge his reaction to this... .I am just sick over it. I am afraid if I tell him that "I know what has been going on"... he is going to lose it and berate me   Anytime I try to confront him about anything (and trust me I am calm, cool, adult about it) he verbally attacks and cuts me down until I retreat like a puppy who peed on the rug and end up apologizing for doing nothing wrong

[karma_gal]

If you have confronted your BPD with the fact you know they have or are cheating, what happened? How was their reaction? Do they feel/guilt or remorse? I am wondering what to expect. I am 99% sure my BF is cheating and the way he can put this show on in front of me (he does act guilty at times though in my mind) just blows my mind... these conversations he told me about how he is a "one woman guy" "you are lucky to have a guy like me who is focused on one woman only", etc... .I am trying to wrap my head around all of this and understand it

When you say you are 99% sure he is cheating, do you hard proof that you can cite to verify your suspicion when you talk to him?  And I'm not saying that you aren't right; in fact, I say women's intuition is hardly ever wrong, and if you are that sure, it's probably happening.  I'm asking because when you confront him, you are going to want some kind of proof that you can show him as he tries and tries to deny it... .because he probably will.  When I confronted my husband when I suspected cheating -- after he had left the home for six weeks, wouldn't tell me where he was staying, got a new phone, et cetera -- he acted completely innocent and made it out like I was the crazy one.  Like you, I was nearly 100 percent sure.  I had gotten a phone call telling me he was, found some maybe-evidence in his bag he had taken when he left, but I didn't have a smoking gun that I could use when I confronted him.  Because of that, he denied everything, turned it around on me, made me look completely crazy, and I never did find out for sure. 

I think, though, if he spends a lot of time making the comments that you indicated above, something isn't right.  Who he is trying to convince of his fidelity, you or him?  I have found that those who shout it loudest are often the most guilty.  In other words, I am proud of the fact that I have rock-solid integrity, but I don't go around shouting it from the rooftops; I let my actions speak for themselves.  My husband, on the other hand, will wax poetic about being honest and moral, but his actions certainly don't bear that out, so it's like in his mind if he says it, it must be true, even if his actions say the complete opposite. 

I don't know if it's appropriate to post another site here, but if you PM me I can give you a link to another site that is excellent for this kind of thing.  You could post your thread, "I think he's cheating, but don't have hard proof" and they will give you step-by-step what you need to do to get hard proof. 

[sadinnc98]

You brought up some great points! I will tell you that I saw some messages from one girl that in my opinion were inappropriate... .He was agreeing to meet her at a bar where she works for a drink, etc... (not sure he ever did but he agreed to go?) But she also had written things to him like "I miss you... Come see me"... .he didn't respond really unless he deleted them. She is married... I think that is crossing lines. He has told me about her in the past that she "Wants him, said she had naughty dreams about him, etc... that made him "uncomfortable" " Well if she truly made him uncomfortable, in my opinion, he would not message with her AT ALL.   She is not however the one I am primarily suspect of. I should also mention that I have caught him on Match.com before while we have been dating... .he gave me a BS excuse and melted down when I asked him about it.


he is one that champions his fidelity, loyalty, etc... .he has been that way since our first date which I always felt was odd that he talked about it so much... .He also told me that he had only been on 2 dates  post-divorce before he met me... .I have counted at least 7 women! and that he has only had sex with 3 women. I just don't think I believe any of it!

[karma_gal]

You brought up some great points! I will tell you that I saw some messages from one girl that in my opinion were inappropriate... .He was agreeing to meet her at a bar where she works for a drink, etc... (not sure he ever did but he agreed to go?) But she also had written things to him like "I miss you... Come see me"... .he didn't respond really unless he deleted them. She is married... I think that is crossing lines. He has told me about her in the past that she "Wants him, said she had naughty dreams about him, etc... that made him "uncomfortable" " Well if she truly made him uncomfortable, in my opinion, he would not message with her AT ALL.   She is not however the one I am primarily suspect of. I should also mention that I have caught him on Match.com before while we have been dating... .he gave me a BS excuse and melted down when I asked him about it.


he is one that champions his fidelity, loyalty, etc... .he has been that way since our first date which I always felt was odd that he talked about it so much... .He also told me that he had only been on 2 dates  post-divorce before he met me... .I have counted at least 7 women! and that he has only had sex with 3 women. I just don't think I believe any of it!

The bolded part is absolutely true, and just goes to show how they say one thing but yet do another.  I've had to learn the hard way through my journey that it's important to watch what they DO and not listen to what they SAY because their actions won't lie, their mouth will. 

I know we talked via PM, but I will just say here that I hope your search leads you to whatever answers you need to make a decision that works for you.  I think you have enough here to be suspicious with, and I would be asking myself, "Is this a deal breaker for me?"  One of the conditions of my husband coming home after the incident I referenced earlier was that I would have access to his phone, e-mail, and social media any time I asked, just because trust had to be rebuilt.  If he had balked at that, he wouldn't have come back home.  Talking to other women and creating a dating profile would have landed him out the door where he could pursue those things on his time and dime, not mine. 

So I absolutely would have an issue, were it me, with him talking to other women, especially in that context, but I think I would have a bigger issue with the lies.  I just can't stand a liar, and if he will lie to you about small things -- only dating two when it was at least seven women -- he will certainly lie to you about the big things.  In my own relationship, there are so many things that have led me to this board, to deciding if this will be the end, but it's the lies most of all that have broken the foundation of our relationship.  In my mind I should be able to trust the person I'm sharing my life with, and when he constantly lies he makes that impossible to do. 

I think the worst part of these situations is you know, by that feeling in your gut, what is going on, but the denial is so strong and so hard to get past.  It's so hard to believe that yes, they would do these horrible things, lie about them, and think nothing of it; that they think so little of us to do these things to us. 

Hopefully you will get some great advice on how to find out for sure from the other resource I sent you so that you can make an informed decision on how to proceed going forward.  Keep posting here, we'll help you every step of the way!

[Turkish]

 the thing about accessing social media of cheaters is that there's always ways around it.  how does one account for secret email accounts.  mine has one, I  found it in the browser history.  that's the alternate persona she uses,  keeping her long term account for when she is " normal".  it's a  no brainer to set up  another FB with completely different friends.  mine played the besotted teen lover waif to her paramour. she mirrors responsible mom to her family, friends and (finally after 8 mos  of teen mom  behavior only I  saw the truth of)

[karma_gal]

the thing about accessing social media of cheaters is that there's always ways around it.  how does one account for secret email accounts.  mine has one, I  found it in the browser history.  that's the alternate persona she uses,  keeping her long term account for when she is " normal".  it's a  no brainer to set up  another FB with completely different friends.  mine played the besotted teen lover waif to her paramour. she mirrors responsible mom to her family, friends and (finally after 8 mos  of teen mom  behavior only I  saw the truth of)

This is a great point and something to keep in mind.  These folks can be sneaky!  I don't know how much open access you have to the devices he uses, but might be able to use a keylogger or spy software so you find out everything he's accessing, so if there are secret accounts you will know that, too. 

[Grissum69]

the thing about accessing social media of cheaters is that there's always ways around it.  how does one account for secret email accounts.  mine has one, I  found it in the browser history.  that's the alternate persona she uses,  keeping her long term account for when she is " normal".  it's a  no brainer to set up  another FB with completely different friends.  mine played the besotted teen lover waif to her paramour. she mirrors responsible mom to her family, friends and (finally after 8 mos  of teen mom  behavior only I  saw the truth of)

This is a great point and something to keep in mind.  These folks can be sneaky!  I don't know how much open access you have to the devices he uses, but might be able to use a keylogger or spy software so you find out everything he's accessing, so if there are secret accounts you will know that, too. 

I almost went this route along with background check and so on...    so not worth it in the end

[pecia]

I am sorry you are going through this. I can tell you that my BPDh has cheated on me repeatedly and even in the face of hardcore evidence - he will still deny it or refuse to disclose details. I have intercepted texts about him having sex the weekend prior and naked women pictures sent to his phone. I have essentially found everything short of him actually in the act. Only once has he admitted to it and that was only after the woman freaked out and contacted me. Even then he refused to disclose details. I think it goes back to them refusing to discuss anything that causes them shame- regardless of how it is presented to them. I have very calmly asked my BPDh questions- still nothing. It's a crap situation. They will always lie. Trust your gut and decide what you are and are not willing to accept. Hang in there. - pecia

[Changingman]

she even " accidentally"  sent a  text  meant  for her "Love"  to me

Not an accident, torture! They do it on purpose!

Sick

[sadinnc98]

I am sorry you are going through this. I can tell you that my BPDh has cheated on me repeatedly and even in the face of hardcore evidence - he will still deny it or refuse to disclose details. I have intercepted texts about him having sex the weekend prior and naked women pictures sent to his phone. I have essentially found everything short of him actually in the act. Only once has he admitted to it and that was only after the woman freaked out and contacted me. Even then he refused to disclose details. I think it goes back to them refusing to discuss anything that causes them shame- regardless of how it is presented to them. I have very calmly asked my BPDh questions- still nothing. It's a crap situation. They will always lie. Trust your gut and decide what you are and are not willing to accept. Hang in there. - pecia

See I can totally picture him denying the whole thing and turning it around on me, etc... .getting angry. Its not going to go down well.

[damage control]

What do you hope to get from confronting?

Are you going to leave?

do you just want everything 'out in the open'?

something else?

Do you think you can feasibly attain what you want through confrontation?

Are you willing to walk away/stay if you don't get what you want?

[wrigley52]

Mine lied the entire time... .he finally got caught when my son saw him with a secret cell phone... .I kicked his butt out and confronted the other women, but she didn't believe me and now he is with her in a relationship and she is the love of his life and his soul mate... .whatever... .I got out and I'm on the road to recovery. She will get cheated on and some day learn what she got herself in to. I AM HAPPY! LOL



Wrigley52

[sm15000]

What do you hope to get from confronting?

Are you going to leave?

do you just want everything 'out in the open'?

something else?

Do you think you can feasibly attain what you want through confrontation?

Are you willing to walk away/stay if you don't get what you want?

All valid questions!

I confronted but I wasn't aware of a possible PD.  What I got was a complete change in character and I opened Pandora's Box.

He came around after I couldn't keep my mouth shut saying he had something to tell me 

What I got was an admission that he had been sleeping with 6 other women at the beginning of the r/s. . .I wasn't allowed to ask any questions - it was in the past - but when I asked him 'how long for' he replied 'ball park' to 3/4 yrs. 

Thing is, I believe, he did that to take me off the trail of what I was asking him about the present.  When I persisted, it turned into months and months of lies, circular arguments, manipulation, push/pull behaviour, projection, devaluing and filled me with more anxiety, confusion, fear, hurt and upset than I have ever known. . .I was turned to emotional mush 

I was the one having the affair

How dare I accuse him as "I hadn't found him with his d**k in anyone"

I was asked to apologise to him for accusing

I was told "I had upset" the girl (younger than his daughter - 22) he was linked to

Who was I to make the rules in our relationship

and on, and on

I suppose what I am saying is confronting gets you nowhere, absolutely nowhere. . .

If you want to stay, I think you have to accept his behaviours with other women/internet are part of him. . .DO NOT expect HIM to change.  It's most probably a matter of using the tools to manage this and setting boundaries that if he does break, you are prepared to leave.

If you can't deal with that, I think leaving is the only option.

I know it seems like a lose, lose situation    I personally had to leave.

I wish you luck 

[widow lady]

Mine said ":)on't ask questions you don't want answers to "! How typical is that of borderline evasive behavior? Very high functional to say the least!  Where was I to go with this?  I am now in my 3rd or 4th recycle... .this might be the last, as he hasn't called etc. for a month.  I am mush too!

[Muslickz]

Hey all,

I went through this with my Wife, except I walked up on her at a bar making out with a guy 15yrs her(And my) Junior. Her response was "I'm confused" and "I Don't know what I was doing" With three kids at home these were not the answers I wanted. I have come to realize there is no way I can control her at all, I can set limits on what I will deal with and let her know and stick to them even if it kills me.

The worst part of it is it's left me feeling insecure when she wants to go out with friends and drink, she is an attention hound and if some guy pays attention to her it's over. Especially if he's her Type IE: Co-Dependent. I See her as a kind of predator that's looking for just the right type to reel in.

I actually spoke to the guy from the bar incident at length and she went after him, told him we were over and she was now single. I almost feel for the guy in a way, he told me his mother has BPD and BiPolar (Like my wife) And I feel he may have been conditioned as a child to fit that role. It amazes me how she can pick just the right guy to fall for her bull.

Her Idea of an apology is telling me to "Get over it" She displays absolutely no remorse or regret for what's she's done, only regret for having gotten caught.

I have also gotten the ":)on't ask questions you don't want the answers to bit" Just like Widow Lady... .Typical BPD Behavior.

I simply have it in my mind that if another infidelity occurs that I will pack up and leave, let her make her own bed and I will make sure she lies in it. She is aware of this condition, I have also told her if it's over it's over... just let me know. Unfortunately they don't work that way and it always has to be a circus of blame and irresponsibility.

I have in writing her diagnosis as "Sociopath, BPD, BiPolar" From the SSI Doctors and will use it if I have to for the kids sake.

-MinFL

[rj47]

Four months ago my BPDw had an emotional affair that pushed into the sexual with a webcam and provocative photos she was sending. The real pain comes out of the things she said to him, and, about me. It was the second time in just over a year. She had on-line romance with a man she dated in HS who lives a 1000 miles away and had not seen in 35 years. Her PD is exacerbated by serious and chronic medical issues that cause her to be shut-in much of the time.

The remorse she had was real and deep. The emotional rebonding, sexual intimacy and communication was amazing and for a time my life was made again. That was several moths ago. Last night I triggered an episode by failing to sit on the living room couch next to her. I wanted to let her sleep (she kept dozing). Its been 14 hours of ranting, and recycling. The new wildcard is the boyfriend. Her new trip-wire is bringing him up and saying how much better he was over their 30-days in terms of care, compassion and love; than I have been in 30-years. Now I'm a useless POS and she's said another affair will happen again if I "don't start to get it right".

Yes, the remorse was real and my life was made for time. I thought it could last and this time she might change. But; it never does. Its getting worse. If she finally did me a favor, its the new direction of her threats and the use of the other men to hurt me. I always loved and wanted her to be happy. When I began to understand BPD, I worked hard to eliminate the "placeholders" for her rage and provide validation. She's simply ratcheted up the stakes and employed new triggers.

I will continue to be my best and carry on with integrity and character. I love her, but know that I cannot save her. I may not be able to save myself if I continue to continue in this madness. I encourage her to reconnect with the boyfriends each time she brings them up for comparison to point out my flaws. My wife is stunning at for her age and attracts men wherever she goes. Nonetheless, I stay in the best physical shape of my life, am pressing on with my business, have reconnected with my grown kids, and, re-engaged with friends given up over the years from the PD. I will always love and care for her. I will always be her friend... .and will keep the door open until one of us permanently closes it. However, she knows that other women find me attractive and worth pursuing; and, it drives her crazy. I've never opened that door, but it becomes more palatable with each episode. There is an opportunity for us, the hard line in the sand is that she has to get into therapy to deal with her personal issues. So far she has not cancelled her first appointment next month, but we'll see. We have been there before.

I used to think that my love for her would make up for her complete inability to love me back in the same way. I outlasted the episodes waiting for the reconnects that would carry me through the next episode.

Think long and hard about the cost to you for loving the person you are with. As much as you may think you can live with the PD, the personal cost is most likely not worth the suffering you will endure in the years ahead and destruction of your self-worth.

Best of luck.

RJ

[Seneca]

Four months ago my BPDw had an emotional affair that pushed into the sexual with a webcam and provocative photos she was sending. The real pain comes out of the things she said to him, and, about me. It was the second time in just over a year. She had on-line romance with a man she dated in HS who lives a 1000 miles away and had not seen in 35 years. Her PD is exacerbated by serious and chronic medical issues that cause her to be shut-in much of the time.

The remorse she had was real and deep. The emotional rebonding, sexual intimacy and communication was amazing and for a time my life was made again. That was several moths ago. Last night I triggered an episode by failing to sit on the living room couch next to her. I wanted to let her sleep (she kept dozing). Its been 14 hours of ranting, and recycling. The new wildcard is the boyfriend. Her new trip-wire is bringing him up and saying how much better he was over their 30-days in terms of care, compassion and love; than I have been in 30-years. Now I'm a useless POS and she's said another affair will happen again if I "don't start to get it right".

Yes, the remorse was real and my life was made for time. I thought it could last and this time she might change. But; it never does. Its getting worse. If she finally did me a favor, its the new direction of her threats and the use of the other men to hurt me. I always loved and wanted her to be happy. When I began to understand BPD, I worked hard to eliminate the "placeholders" for her rage and provide validation. She's simply ratcheted up the stakes and employed new triggers.

I will continue to be my best and carry on with integrity and character. I love her, but know that I cannot save her. I may not be able to save myself if I continue to continue in this madness. I encourage her to reconnect with the boyfriends each time she brings them up for comparison to point out my flaws. My wife is stunning at for her age and attracts men wherever she goes. Nonetheless, I stay in the best physical shape of my life, am pressing on with my business, have reconnected with my grown kids, and, re-engaged with friends given up over the years from the PD. I will always love and care for her. I will always be her friend... .and will keep the door open until one of us permanently closes it. However, she knows that other women find me attractive and worth pursuing; and, it drives her crazy. I've never opened that door, but it becomes more palatable with each episode. There is an opportunity for us, the hard line in the sand is that she has to get into therapy to deal with her personal issues. So far she has not cancelled her first appointment next month, but we'll see. We have been there before.

I used to think that my love for her would make up for her complete inability to love me back in the same way. I outlasted the episodes waiting for the reconnects that would carry me through the next episode.

Think long and hard about the cost to you for loving the person you are with. As much as you may think you can live with the PD, the personal cost is most likely not worth the suffering you will endure in the years ahead and destruction of your self-worth.

Best of luck.

RJ

RJ, thank you so much. Not to hijack the thread, but I totally needed this today. My UBPDh is trying desperately to reconnect right now. Asking about things, following me around the house, buying me flowers, being meek and humble, making promises and begging for chances. And I feel like such a goddang monster turning him away and telling him "no more. But I KNOW it's temporary. I've been in the valley so many times, I can anticipate that humiliation and disappointment all over again. I know it won't get better. I have wasted 12 years riding this loopy roller coaster... and to know that you've been riding the same one for 30 years... .just reaffirms what I know in my heart. I am worth more than this. No matter how hard it is to disentangle our lives or how long it takes, I am not emotionally engaging or letting him back in again. No matter what tactic he tries. Thank you for posting today. You never know how your words will help someone else. 

[fromheeltoheal]

I knew my borderline ex was cheating with several men, and of course when I confronted her she'd deny, deny, deny and come up with the most ridiculous lies, laughable, I almost thought she wasn't even trying to deceive, but she talked herself into believing them, cognitive distortion at its finest.

But the clincher?  When I started doing nice things for her again, in my delusion, she would have extra-special rage outbursts.  Over time I realized that was her shame surfacing loudly, and the nicer I was, the more I spent on her, the more special I treated her, the louder the rage, which to me was all the definitive proof I needed, especially when it happened repeatedly.  The rage was almost a bigger deal than the infidelity, since it was in my face, but the deal breaker was the fact she chose to live like that, and I deserve so much better.  I tested negative, whew!  Take your dysfunction somewhere else sunshine.

[rj47]

Seneca. I am so sorry for you're dealing with. I'm sure its a shared experience in many ways and brings tears to simply think about. My experience is not yours and I wonder if there is single path that is the right one, especially considering the co-dependency many of us create and the inevitable confusion that torments us over that final question; "do we end it?". How does one make thoughtful and rational decisions in the midst of that roller coaster ride of despair that never seems to end? Should be easy right? Its not for many of us.

I've noted that many people here have ended relationships with their SO's only to end up more miserable for it. In my case I simply pushed the leave decision off for more appropriate times; ie, after the kids were grown, the house was sold, she got a job, my business stabilized, etc. I told myself if she ever engaged in an illicit relationship; the marriage was over. But it wasn't and I justified staying with the knowledge that she didn't have physical sex, avoided him, and, it was a safe game she played from home. What the heck? What kind of thinking is that? Especially, when months later my blood still boils at the memory of how, why, what she did and wrote. Frankly, I don't confide to anyone for the simple reason that they will think I'm the one that's crazy for staying so long. Trust me... . I've heard it.

Should the response to cheating be any different than when it happens in so called "normal" relationships? Probably not. Nevertheless, we end up beating ourselves up over it (with their help) because we can put a clinical label on it to find justification for their awful behavior. Pay attention to those What the heck moments you have replaying the dysfunction your dealing with. If you're done with him... . good. Hang in there. I am told it gets better. If not... . good. Hang in there, stay engaged here for support and find a way to move the dialogue gently but firmly toward confronting the issue. It took me far too long, but I am hoping for the best and finally planning for the worst. God Bless.

[SeekingAdviceinCa]

In my experience they lie, lie, lie and blame, blame, blame.

My wife physically cheated once in Vegas and I suspected it all along but she denied it for years until finally coming clean. She was genuinely remorseful. But this led me to learning she would cut herself. She did after admitting to cheating and then told me she had done it a dozen times or so in the years before. I had no idea this happened.

The time I confronted her about an emotional affair that lasted for most of marriage was a very different story. She denied everything - even after I quoted her emails directly - and raged and turned everything around on me.  She physically broke things.  She threatened to divorce ME because she "couldn't be with someone who snooped" and that I read way more into the emails than they ever were meant to be. Oh and that she's just a flirty person and she can help that. 

Keep in mind the emails said things like "you are the exception to well, everything. For you I have wished and will forever wish for a time machine."  And "I wish you were here, you would have loved this concert and I cried because you weren't there." And not to be forgotten "There are things I want to say and share with you that for many reasons I know I can't. Timing has never been our thing."  (He was also married) The kicker, the night they first met her and I had been engaged one month. Years after their initial meeting she fondly recalled "I'm thinking of the night we first met. I haven't felt anything like that before and haven't since. Maybe I've said too much."

Oh and there were 30 or so pictures exchanged too.

And I'M supposedly the crazy one for thinking there was a problem with this!

She kept in contact with this guy even after this confrontation and was upset that I ruined that friendship. In the mind of a BPD irrational becomes rational.

[SeekingAdviceinCa]

I forgot to add that she is currently cheating with multiple men during our trial separation period and is lying about it. (I have concrete proof). I don't even know how I'll approach this one. I probably won't until our legal separation papers are done with the court.  I know when I do it will somehow be all my fault.

[Turkish]

In my experience they lie, lie, lie and blame, blame, blame.

The time I confronted her about an emotional affair that lasted for most of marriage was a very different story. She denied everything - even after I quoted her emails directly - and raged and tw I can't. his!

She kept in contact with this guy even after this confrontation and was upset that I ruined that friendship. In the mind of a BPD irrational becomes rational.

This is why I put the last nail in the coffin of our r/s. Even when we (I) was trying to work it out, it was the constant texting. Even if things got better, she would have thought it acceptable to keep him as a friend. No boundaries. I know how she attached. It would have happened again, or with someone else. To her credit, she said it in a way... . that was when I knew there was no hoep , I looked inside, found myself and said, "then its over."

Then the last argument we had ensued. That was three months ago, and she's hopfully almost gone... .

[SeekingAdviceinCa]

Turkish,

Yes. Boundary violations are a huge issue. I'm the more passive, kind-hearted, mild-mannered type so it was easy for boundaries to be crossed.

I'm getting very close to putting the final nail in the coffin.  I can't imagine raising a family under these conditions and I want kids. And peace. And stability. And a loving relationship. And not being afraid to confront problems. And... . well you get the point.

[Turkish]

Turkish,

Yes. Boundary violations are a huge issue. I'm the more passive, kind-hearted, mild-mannered type so it was easy for boundaries to be crossed.

I'm getting very close to putting the final nail in the coffin.  I can't imagine raising a family under these conditions and I want kids. And peace. And stability. And a loving relationship. And not being afraid to confront problems. And... . well you get the point.

We sound a lot alike. My mistake was forming a family with a who.an who had a pathological fear of marriage (commitment). She knows why; she told me her family history. Why did I do it, then a second kid after felling in my gut our r/s couldn't handle the stress?

Because I never had this, not even broken as it is now. I was the single adoptive child of a single mother whim I found out was physically abused and raped most of her childhood, hence her mistrust of men so she never had any relationships. Not one. And I never had a father... . though there was a man in my later teen years, but I had insulated myself enough that I only got the emotional feeling of him as a father in my early 20s.

Then he had a severe stroke. My mother, a nurse, married him to take care of him. A sexless marriage. I was 25, and made stupid excuses to not attend their wedding, which I felt was false. What a jerk, I regret it to this day, how I probably hurt my mom, and him.

Many of us "need" kids. We need someone to have them with, unless you go my mothers single patent adoption route. Its instinct, and it's the love given to us by God. That ability to give of ourselves.

For whatever reason, we sometimes choose wrongly. That is us. Not karma, or some disorder, it just is. Our mission is to figure out why. And most of us are here figuring that out. So stick around, get support, and give that love you have back as support as well. The only person we can really figure out is our self.