Dear Yoda .. what now?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Yes ... it happened.

I got the feeling he was going to ask the other day but didn't.

He has sent an email asking if I would like to share with him.

In a way it would be so easy as we are able to live together without dramas.

On the other hand ... well ... I don't need to spell it out.

Thoughts guys?

[damage control]

Yes ... it happened.

I got the feeling he was going to ask the other day but didn't.

He has sent an email asking if I would like to share with him.

In a way it would be so easy as we are able to live together without dramas.

On the other hand ... well ... I don't need to spell it out.

Thoughts guys?

[SurvivedLove]

"... .as we are able to live together without dramas."

:D Good one.

My only thought is this: Nope. Noope, nope, nope.

WHY on earth would you willingly throw yourself back on the bonfire, if you managed to get out of it alive the first time? Why?

The only thing you should share with him are these words:

"Having you in my life has been toxic and destructive for my body, my mind and my spirit. The only thing I'd like to share with you is an agreement that we should never share anything again. Goodbye."

That was my thought on it. How do YOU feel yourself?

So you think it's even remotely possible to live with him without there being drama llamas all over the place, without crazymaking, blamegaming, projections and heartbreak over and over?

Has it been possible in the past?

Only you know when you're ready to call it absolute quits for the last time.

Your question tells me that your heart might not be there yet, yet your "On the other hand... .etc." tells me that your head and everything else in you already know the outcome.

I can't tell you what to do. All I can say is look at where you are. The leaving board. The place for people who's been through Hell with their BPD loved ones and who slowly but surely get a little bit better week by week, month by month.

You decided to come here for a reason. Try looking inside yourself, tell us why you chose THIS board and not the staying board, figure out what YOU feel you should do. No one here can tell you, sadly.

I wish you luck, which ever direction your choice now takes you in *hugs*.

[free-n-clear]

Thoughts guys?

   Wot SurvivedLove said.

[patientandclear]

Oh boy DC. There's almost no aspect of this situation on which I'd take a firm position, but ... .I think that would be a terrible idea. That daily sense of rejection of your best self we were talking about ... .feeling categorized as a friend and not as a desirable woman or appropriate object of romantic love ... .those would come with you, when getting free of them is the most important thing that needs to happen for you. Just my very strong reaction.

[damage control]

I am off to look at a share house ... I have had a couple of shots of vodka because the guy who is taking me by car is someone I know only from online ... here's hoping he ain't a serial killer :P

I'll be back.

And I have much to vent/say.

Did I mention vodka?

I wish I was jewish ... they have words for these circumstances ... .oy ... vey springs to mind. (plus ... I love Jewish men)

[free-n-clear]

I am off to look at a share house ... I have had a couple of shots of vodka because the guy who is taking me by car is someone I know only from online ... here's hoping he ain't a serial killer :P

... .Did I mention vodka?

   Need to find somewhere to live

        #To break away from pwBPD, plus

        #For job security reasons, plus

        #Because it's not suitable for my dog here.

So I really need to find somewhere to live... .

Getting a ride with a stranger to go and meet some other strangers who may (or may not) be able to help me achieve this, and

Did I mention vodka?

Hello? 

[damage control]

Am back ... not a serial killer ... which is always a good thing.

House share is good ... well ... not ideal but is ideal for the dog which is a big one.

I won't find out until Sunday night if I have it but the guy was quite keen ...

[damage control]

You all seem to think it's a terrible idea to share with the ex ... I need input here obviously as my decision making is completely corrupted when it comes to this man.

Thanks guys

[laelle]

If you could live your life with your ex drama free... .you wouldnt be here!

He hurts you and pain can not cure pain.  I know the thought of the two of you "sharing" is highly addictive, but you know very well that the cards eventually will come crashing down and you will have to start your healing all over again, as well as deal with the deteriorating living situation it will cause.

Find yourself another place to live, and if you still want to engage him in a relationship do so that way.  You need to stop the enmeshment.  It is not healthy.

He can not heal you and you can not heal him!  Look to your "core" for that healing, not him.

[heartandwhole]

You all seem to think it's a terrible idea to share with the ex ... I need input here obviously as my decision making is completely corrupted when it comes to this man.

Thanks guys

Living with your ex = pain.

'Nuff said?   

[patientandclear]

DC -- he understandably wants to keep up the current arrangement, which is perfect for him.

A friend of mine, commenting on my just-ended intimate friendship with my uBPDex, said "friendship=you keep giving me what you always have, and I can be as present or absent as I want at any given time, with no rules or accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission."  That's what you're enduring right now & it's obvious how painful it is.

You started a thread a while back about feeling like your mind was being taken over or colonized (that wasn't quite the subject line).  You were starting to wonder what was wrong with this guy seeing other women overlapping with your r/s while still sharing so much intimately with you.  Believe me I understand this.  I have rationalized some incredible stuff in the name of "well, maybe this is the best he can do."

What's wrong with it is that it's incompatible with the connection between you, it feels like a constant verdict on you (he chooses physical intimacy with another), and every day you wonder if you are going to be chosen or rejected.  So damaging.

[free-n-clear]

"friendship=you keep giving me what you always have, and I can be as present or absent as I want at any given time, with no rules or accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission." 

PnC, your friend is either very wise, with a good understanding of BPD, or he/she has been spying on my uBPDxgf and I!  It's uncanny how some of the things I read on this site hit me right between the eyes. Or right in the gut. :'(

[LilMissSunshine]

The only thing you should share with him are these words:

"Having you in my life has been toxic and destructive for my body, my mind and my spirit. The only thing I'd like to share with you is an agreement that we should never share anything again. Goodbye."

Double Ditto.

[free-n-clear]

         Awesome Jim, I've tried the friendship thing, she told me I was her "best" friend. All it meant was that I still got the rages and lies, and when she wanted to get laid she'd go and see my (former)mate.                  

"friendship=you keep giving me what you always have, and I can be as present or absent as I want at any given time, with no rules or accountability, and no matter what I do, you've already given me permission."  

SORRY GUYS, TRYING TO QUOTE FROM HERE TO A DIFFERENT THREAD. DAMN NEWFANGLED INTERNET MACHINE THINGY!

[RecycledNoMore]

Go back n read your old posts

If you still think its a good idea to move in with him

Id be questioning which one of you has the mental disorder.

[damage control]

Thanks again to everybody who posted here ... I have read and re-read your answers and given much thought to this.

I went to see a share house on Friday and the guy from that called early Saturday to offer me the room if I want/ed it.

And while this is good news ... he has been a little bit creepy via text and calling. Top that off with the guy who drove me there becoming extremely controlling over the past few days and I seem to be a magnet for men with issues ATM ... it's driving me nuts.

The ex has not contacted me at all since he sent the email asking if I wanted to share with him last Friday morning.

Fact is, my head is much, much clearer when he is not around muddying it. I managed to get to work on Saturday, including getting my dog somewhere safe for the day. I enjoyed getting out of here for the day so much and even though work is really tough right now, and I am getting left behind everyone else as they get used to the new station procedures etc because I haven't been there for a week - I felt better for having gone at least that one day.

I can move into the new place on Friday (need to be paid in order to pay advance rent and bond) ...

I think I haven't heard from the ex as perhaps my replacement has gone up there for the weekend? Not sure.

The only thing hanging over me with him right now is that he is still not on his dating site ... it's been about 2 weeks ... and this worries me that she and he may be in this for the long-ish run ... and yes, that bothers me (I know it shouldn't).

So, things are not settled, or perfect or anything like that ... but ... somehow, someway this week I suppose I will be out of this house - and I cannot wait for that to happen.

[patientandclear]

That's great news DC.  I also hope you can draw some comfort from the fact that it's not like it's just you with whom he's been a disaster as a mate.  There's no possibility that he's suddenly turned into someone capable of being intimate & sharing his life with someone else.

It must be our own deep sense of inadequacy that makes that so hard to accept -- nothing is so universal on these boards as the certainty that the pwBPD is going to magically morph into a capable partner after us.

I felt it when my ex moved immediately from needing to "be alone" and figure out his intimacy issues, to reuniting with his ex ... .by all accounts from mutual friends he made her some impressive promises (poor woman, she was trying to guard herself and she knows how flighty he's been in the past, so she was trying to put up boundaries ... .).  Just about killed me.  Then he broke them.  Then it was as if she barely ever existed.

Now he's in another r/s and despite that experience I swear, it tears me up how I "know" that he is going to dedicate himself to this in a different way because somehow she is worth it.

This kind of thinking doesn't take into consideration that r/s behaviors with BPD are not a matter of willpower and commitment, it's like there's a deep operating system at work that converts goodness to badness.  So it isn't like "he likes her, ergo, he'll stay with her."  The more she matters to him, the more his defenses will go to war with the r/s.

Just as happened with you, of course.

[Waifed]

DC

My ex asked me if I would still have sex with her once I remarried. This was right after I told her I was about to leave the relationship. This is how ___ed up these people are. It is all about meeting their needs. Love is not a factor. He wants you around as  a back up. It is a control thing. He is no good for you or anyone else.

Get yourself out of there and start healing. You are not thinking logically. I was there too. I was so in the FOG when she asked me what she did that I wasn't even fazed by it. Looking back it is laughable how little she ever cared about me. It was all about what I could do for her.

[damage control]

Hey P+C

I am not really drawing comfort ATM ... having a rough day and my mind is going to him and what he is or is not doing with the replacement.

A few weeks back I posted that he seemed on the verge of asking me to go to his parents' house for Xmas ... I now know that he was actually on the verge of asking me if I wanted to go away ... but he thought better of it and, there is no way he would be alone for this amount of time (it's been 3 days since I heard from him) so ... he must be enjoying her company ... of course, I KNEW that she would be there but ... dropping off the face of the earth is still hurtful ...

I have tried letting the men who are interested in me call, tried meeting a couple of them, tried to find some other source/object to at least think about ... with no avail. I feel doomed to live some horrible tragedy of unrequited lust.

I know, as you say that there is no way that he is going to open up and have a fulfilling r/s with this woman - and that has nothing to do with her - he doesn't want that ... he told me about a week ago that he feels no love for anyone and doesn't care is anyone loves him ... .he doesn't want it. But somehow, that seems to be my burden, not his.

How are you doing P+C? Your decision to remove yourself was not taken lightly I know ... how are you coping with it?

@Waifed

It's possibly a signal of how unstable I feel about all of this that I would give anything for him to still want to be physically intimate with me. In some ways, I think if I could get that, I would better be able to walk away from this.

It's because he is denying me that - after telling me all this time how much he wanted me of course - that I feel that I cannot find it with anybody else. The sex was fantastic yes, but I have had fantastic sex before ... .it's the withdrawal: I have never had anybody do this to me before and it is triggering every trauma in me - the rejection is just so absolute.

Thing is, he and I COULD be friends and successful roommates ... he hasn't 'rejected' me as a person, quite the opposite. He is capable of being considerate and kind and he values me as a person ... I am not in denial here, I am not claiming that he is perfect or a great friend, but, we have this symbiotic thing going on. However, without the sex ... it means nothing really. I would be lying if I said that I don't hope every time we share a bed that something will happen.

The offer and/or withdrawal of sex is just so potent and s/he who withdraws it has all the power it seems.

[patientandclear]

How are you doing P+C? Your decision to remove yourself was not taken lightly I know ... how are you coping with it?

I'm doing OK, thanks to a lot of wonderful support from people here and in real life.  I had a rocky couple of days when I was quite physically sick, but I feel better physically now and my original positive feelings about this exchange are back.

As I just wrote on Iwalks "What Kind of Gone?" thread, I feel like I basically asked him to get real or get gone, and he chose gone.  I'm glad I did it.  There's a lot of loss, but not because of what I said.  Because of what he'd already done.  As hard as this may be, it's a hell of lot better than letting what was happening continue.  Letting him shut down certain aspects of our r/s that he'd quite intentionally built back up with me, just because they're not convenient right now b/c he's pursuing someone else; but pretending nothing is happening, nothing has changed; and that it's just fine for him to come & go on whatever terms work for him at the moment.  I'm not a buffet table he can come & snack from whenever he happens to be hungry.  The terms on which he gets that kind of access to me are really different from what he's been offering.

I'm really so glad I did it.

[UnLuckyLady]

Damage Control

Hey there lady.  I cannot imagine being rejected physically, although I didn't imagine being rejected all of the other ways but it happened.  It would not sit well with me either. Nothing about this f**king disorder does.  What I don't get honestly is how can they be so OK with just being friends with us. I mean we shared bodily fluids, giggle sessions, homecooked meals cooked together... .blah blah blah.  How can it become so casual and they be fine?  Is it because they have a replacement to fulfill those physical needs and keep us around "just in case"?  I know the truth to both of those questions and it's a big fat YES.  It's an all consuming mind f**k.

What have you decided to do?

[delusionalxox]

s

I have tried letting the men who are interested in me call, tried meeting a couple of them, tried to find some other source/object to at least think about ... with no avail. I feel doomed to live some horrible tragedy of unrequited lust.


The offer and/or withdrawal of sex is just so potent and s/he who withdraws it has all the power it seems.

oh damage control I really feel for what you say here.

I too had this appalling trap of unrequited lust going on.

I could say I am still in it I guess- BUT I have finally manage to reject my goddamned gorgeous sexy utterly crazy and deeply horrible cheating lying uBPDex.

He dropped me like a stone in summer when he (unknown to me at the time) moved in with the woman he had been seeing for a month. In August when it was over with her he started contacting me again. I succumbed for a while and met him for a truly horrible weekend when I found out the extent of his lies.

When I found out about what he had done I was stuck in a rented room with him in Rome for the night. He spent the entire night ranting about what a terrible person I was and how it was my fault, how I was a liar and abuser and had corrupted him, etc. It was truly vile and yet I still had sex with him. I was really lost. The next day he hit me in the street and kicked my suitcase.

he honestly expected just to pick me up again from nothing. As if I had been in hibernation all this time waiting for him. As if I were not even a human being.

The same might well happen to you if you share. You'll always be waiting to be picked up. And he might do it one day, but what will you have gained? The attention of a truly uncaring, alien person who is using you.

[damage control]

I'm doing OK, thanks to a lot of wonderful support from people here and in real life.  I had a rocky couple of days when I was quite physically sick, but I feel better physically now and my original positive feelings about this exchange are back.

As I just wrote on Iwalks "What Kind of Gone?" thread, I feel like I basically asked him to get real or get gone, and he chose gone.  I'm glad I did it.  There's a lot of loss, but not because of what I said.  Because of what he'd already done.  As hard as this may be, it's a hell of lot better than letting what was happening continue.  Letting him shut down certain aspects of our r/s that he'd quite intentionally built back up with me, just because they're not convenient right now b/c he's pursuing someone else; but pretending nothing is happening, nothing has changed; and that it's just fine for him to come & go on whatever terms work for him at the moment.  I'm not a buffet table he can come & snack from whenever he happens to be hungry.  The terms on which he gets that kind of access to me are really different from what he's been offering.

I'm really so glad I did it.

You sound so strong P+C ... I am happy to hear that you are good with your decision, I really am.

I completely hear you about (not) being a buffet. I, of course, know exactly what you mean ...

I hope I can find that strength in the next few days as well.

Thanks for sharing where you are at ... it is helpful and gives me hope.

[damage control]

Damage Control

Hey there lady.  I cannot imagine being rejected physically, although I didn't imagine being rejected all of the other ways but it happened.  It would not sit well with me either. Nothing about this f**king disorder does.  What I don't get honestly is how can they be so OK with just being friends with us. I mean we shared bodily fluids, giggle sessions, homecooked meals cooked together... .blah blah blah.  How can it become so casual and they be fine?  Is it because they have a replacement to fulfill those physical needs and keep us around "just in case"?  I know the truth to both of those questions and it's a big fat YES.  It's an all consuming mind f**k.

What have you decided to do?

Hey there

Being rejected physically was one of the hardest things of all of this. He worshipped me physically through our r/s. Told me constantly how he had not found a woman as alluring as me in over 20 years ... that only I had the 'uncanny knack' of arousing him etc ... it went on and on.

The day he dumped me he told me that those emotions were 'burned out' of him through his anxiety attack/s - and that it always happens. He has also claimed impotency since that day but ... .I don't see how that can be the case when he went on a date that night with my replacement and continues to see her every other w/end ... what woman would date a man who will only see her occasionally AND is incapable of being intimate due to impotence? ... doesn't fly does it?

When I met him, he told me that the ex (I replaced her but not immediately, there was overlap) was his 'very best friend' ... and yet ... look how he treated her ... with indifference to her feelings at the very least. He did the same thing with her ... with the sex I mean ... after three months in he told her he was no longer physically attracted to her but that he and she were friends and that was worth more than sex. She stayed for another 2 years and upon hearing this I could not understand how/why a woman would subject herself to that ... of course, now I know.

He behaves as if the r/s is still intact, wants to share a bed, meals, walks around naked ... etc ... but holds off on the sex. It screws with your mind because it feels petty to want the sex and/or want to finish things due to the sex ... but it is fundamental to a r/s and incredibly demeaning when it is withdrawn. He knows this ... and while I don't think he necessarily withdraws sex to achieve that - he certainly 'makes' himself take it elsewhere for a reason - to avoid the intimacy that has been built, to gain power? Who knows. It isn't important and probably makes little sense to anybody but him. Chances are he is probably 'punishing' his mother because he cannot stand her and yet constantly seeks her approval.

yes ... effed up

[patientandclear]

DC, just want to remind you that the reason this feels so horrible is not just that he's withdrawn sex, but that he's also suspended any formal recognition of the r/s -- he might or might not be home, cooking dinner, etc., but if he is, it isn't because you're in a r/s or anything ... .

and then there's also that little matter of him actively courting in some fashion at least one & possibly multiple other women.

If he hadn't withdrawn formal recognition of the r/s and if he weren't seeing others, I can imagine working through this with  him, can't you?  Maybe you'd find a better strategy than the ex did, because yeah, that situation sounds sad if it is as he describes. 

But it's no sex PLUS denial of what the r/s is PLUS other women.  It's altogether negating and value-stripping and dishonorable and gaslighting & mind___ing of him.

[damage control]

oh damage control I really feel for what you say here.

I too had this appalling trap of unrequited lust going on.

I could say I am still in it I guess- BUT I have finally manage to reject my goddamned gorgeous sexy utterly crazy and deeply horrible cheating lying uBPDex.

He dropped me like a stone in summer when he (unknown to me at the time) moved in with the woman he had been seeing for a month. In August when it was over with her he started contacting me again. I succumbed for a while and met him for a truly horrible weekend when I found out the extent of his lies.

When I found out about what he had done I was stuck in a rented room with him in Rome for the night. He spent the entire night ranting about what a terrible person I was and how it was my fault, how I was a liar and abuser and had corrupted him, etc. It was truly vile and yet I still had sex with him. I was really lost. The next day he hit me in the street and kicked my suitcase.

he honestly expected just to pick me up again from nothing. As if I had been in hibernation all this time waiting for him. As if I were not even a human being.

The same might well happen to you if you share. You'll always be waiting to be picked up. And he might do it one day, but what will you have gained? The attention of a truly uncaring, alien person who is using you.

That just sounds hideous delusional. Absolutely hideous. I am so sorry that you went through that.

I think I would be 'waiting' to be picked up again at some point ... I actually feel (and this is embarrassing to write) that if I could get the sex back I would somehow 'win' ... or win back my self-esteem ... I know where that is coming from and why it is an issue for me but that doesn't stop the very real longing and feeling that if I could just (re)seduce him I would be ok.

He once told me that he doesn't think that sex is connected to our 'core selves' - to him, it has nothing to do with it. I was stunned at the time but thought I misunderstood what he was saying as he used to go on about how sex was 'sacred' as well.

When he was about to leave his ex (for me), he flipped out about 3 weeks before and wrote to me that he could not leave her because he 'adored us both' but leaving her for sex was shallow ... fast forward 3 weeks and he was able to walk out on her while she clung to his leg begging him not to go and yet he did ... effectively for sex (with me).

Sex is how he reels women in, and sex is how he punishes and rewards women. He asked me more than once if he was 'the best I ever had?' ... and I always thought that was weird ... I mean who would say no if their lover asked that question?

Somehow, he manages to make it all about the sex ... never have I been so screwed up over a man and never has it all been about the sex before ...

[damage control]

DC, just want to remind you that the reason this feels so horrible is not just that he's withdrawn sex, but that he's also suspended any formal recognition of the r/s -- he might or might not be home, cooking dinner, etc., but if he is, it isn't because you're in a r/s or anything ... .

and then there's also that little matter of him actively courting in some fashion at least one & possibly multiple other women.

If he hadn't withdrawn formal recognition of the r/s and if he weren't seeing others, I can imagine working through this with  him, can't you?  Maybe you'd find a better strategy than the ex did, because yeah, that situation sounds sad if it is as he describes. 

But it's no sex PLUS denial of what the r/s is PLUS other women.  It's altogether negating and value-stripping and dishonorable and gaslighting & mind___ing of him.

You are right P+C, it is all of those things. The fact that he wraps it all up in friendship and intimacy doesn't change that one iota.

The r/s with his ex was beyond sad. At the time I thought she was crazy/controlling and just wouldn't let go. I didn't understand ... combine that with him telling me that he feared job loss and being homeless if he left her and all I saw was a woman who refused to accept that 'it' was over and a victim (him) who was doing his best to get out without sacrificing everything ... what an idiot I was.

His little speech the other day about how when he and I met he was a 'completely different person' who has now 'changed' has come back to haunt me these past few day ... mainly because it makes no sense at all ... and explains nothing - which is what he is very good at and always was. Much of the reason I felt unstable and concerned during this r/s is because he would constantly say these weird things that made no sense and when I asked, he would get off-topic or say more nonsense.

You are right P+C ... he has invalidated everything I was to him with these actions. It IS gaslighting and mind-f^cking ...  

[Findingmysong723]

Withdrawing of sex is really hard, I believe now it was a control thing. He told me that "he was always up for it, all I had to do was ask,"however he denied me on many occasions.  I would deny him as well, but that was because he would want to have sex at bad times, like right when I got home from  a long day at work, not feeling very appealing. Or right after I got back from picking up dinner and he wants to do it right now, I"m sorry I want to eat but I"m up for it after. I also think so of the sexual issues was because of medication for anxiety and also if he initiated sex, and it didn't go the way he planned, he would literally abruptly get upset and walk away from me. I was literally laying there surprised and embarrassed while I put back my clothes and joined him in the living room where he probably put on the TV.

[damage control]

FMS

The withdrawal of sex with mine wasn't physical ... ie, he didn't 'reject' me physically ...

I'll explain: On the Sunday night, we had sex ... on the Monday morning came the dumping (he was getting ready to go on his first date - woman he had met online about a week or so before and had been emailing) ... the next day, I asked him if he no longer had lust for me (I was completely bewildered at the sex part because I always thought no matter what else, we had great sex) ... and he responded that his lust had been 'burned away'.

I have never tried to have sex with him since and never will ... so the rejection was not subtle or unspoken ... it was right there in the ugly daylight. I still only half believe him even though it has been about 8 weeks now ... I was THAT incredulous ... never in a million years did I think the attraction would die ... it was the one thing we had no matter what else was going down ... so much so that I was amazed by that connection ... he would often say "don't question it, just accept the mystery" ... yeah ... some mystery.

[Findingmysong723]

damage control,

Well, rejection is hard no matter how they do it! I'm looking forward to having a partner to have healthy sex with that doesn't make me feel there is something wrong with me. Also, my self esteem will be better, so I'll know how lucky someone is to be with me!