Can we simplify "closure"?

[LilMissSunshine]

As a huge advocate of closure, I find myself wondering today why am I so hung up on it?  It bugs the hit_ out of me.  To the point where in another thread I made a coment about "getting closure, even without his participation." It took me till today to realize even what I meant by that:

Who are we kidding?  They will absolutely never give us closure.  Or at least in a way we can understand it.  We know this is part of their disorder.  They know we suffer because of it and they love it/need to make the suffering long lasting.  Well, today I've decided to completely take that power away from him and to stop complaining about "closure".

You see, I'm realizing we all have our "closure" (or are close to it) and don't see it.  Yet it's right in front of our eyes; it's a symptom of their disorder.  However, I'm realizing that everyone on this board is actually helping me with the "closure" I crave.  I see in other threads people helping each other with "closure" directly or indirectly.  So why are we beating ourselves up about obtaining it from our exes; letting them still (indirectly) hurt us?   They are seriously disordered.   That is why our relationships did not work out with them.  Can we make it as simple as that?

[babyspook]

I’ve often fantasized about closure with mine and how I want it to act out but that may never materialize.  I’m thinking in about another month or two, she’ll show up at my front doorstep again with a smile on her face and tell me she’s “just checking in to see how I’m doing”.  My idea is to let her in and allow her to give me updates on how she’s doing.  Then she’ll hint around to being friends again (she’s so predictable) to which I’ll tell her “Hell to the NO!” and then ask her to leave and never come back…... ever.  Anyway, that’s my idea of having closure with her.  But I can’t sit around and wait for that to happen because it may very well not.  If you think about it, do we really need closure with this?  Some sort of verbal/written communication with them?  I’m not so sure.  Their responses are so textbook BPD responses so what would be the point?  All I know is that NC IS the beginning of closure.

[fromheeltoheal]

Wanting closure in a conventional sense from someone who is incapable or doesn't want to give it is futile, and staying stuck there is a source of pain moving forward.

So what is closure?  If we define closure as at the end of a relationship two people sit down and say their peace, in an environment of mutual respect and trust, wish each other well, no hard feelings, and part ways remembering the good times while agreeing it won't work beyond here, if that's how we define closure, something less than that is going to feel like it's lacking.  I never had heart to heart conversations in an environment of mutual trust and respect with my ex during the relationship, so expecting it at the end was inappropriate and still dreaming.

I've adjusted my definition of closure in my relationship with a borderline sufferer: there were lessons I needed to learn at this point in my life, a borderline is handy for that since the pain of the relationship gave me no choice but to look at my own issues, she showed up when she was supposed to.  Also, she has a serious mental illness, and radical acceptance of that, it is what it is, with all of the good and bad 'features', I would never get my needs met in a long term relationship and it would never work, she is who she is, and it became time to just leave it all alone. 

Bottom line we give ourselves our own closure, and redefining what closure is, is helpful.  The other piece of course is what is missing without that closure?  Do we still want validation?  Do we want retribution?  Do we want to finally be heard and hear some genuine remorse and get a sincere apology?  We get to be really honest here and know and accept whether or not our partner is first capable, and second willing to give us those things; if I'd gotten them in the relationship we wouldn't have broken up, so I say no.

[seeking balance]

Over the years, I have seen the closure topic analyzed from many people - the conclusion that I have come to is this... .it isn't closure we crave - it's over/door is closed - it is validation a non is craving.

Nons want to be validated they mattered, it was real and their feelings are now hurt.


That is my 2 cents on closure 

Peace,

SB

[musicfan42]

In an ideal world, I'd like an abuser to have the self-awareness to realize the harm they inflicted on me... to make amends/apologize.

I had the opportunity recently to make amends to someone that I had hurt years ago. It felt like closure for both of us- that we could both move on with our lives... .that it's not going to be in the back of our minds anymore... that it's just a shut case... that it's 100% over now. That's what closure feels like to me.

There have been times when people have hurt me. My BPD ex hurt me but I don't feel closure from it. I dumped him, stood up for myself, didn't put up with it and carried on with my life. But is that closure? I don't think it is. I still feel resentment towards him because he hasn't acknowledged the harm he caused me. He didn't apologize, didn't have empathy... didn't see my side of things. I chose not to seek revenge on him however I definitely feel a grudge towards him. I don't like him, I don't respect him. I don't hate him however I don't want him in my life in any shape or form. If he apologized/made amends, then that would be a truly healing experience for me; just like I was able to have an amazing experience making amends to someone recently.

[LilMissSunshine]

There have been times when people have hurt me. My BPD ex hurt me but I don't feel closure from it. I dumped him, stood up for myself, didn't put up with it and carried on with my life. But is that closure? I don't think it is. I still feel resentment towards him because he hasn't acknowledged the harm he caused me. He didn't apologize, didn't have empathy... didn't see my side of things. I chose not to seek revenge on him however I definitely feel a grudge towards him. I don't like him, I don't respect him. I don't hate him however I don't want him in my life in any shape or form. If he apologized/made amends, then that would be a truly healing experience for me; just like I was able to have an amazing experience making amends to someone recently.

I feel the same way.  But do the disordered understand closure?  Know how important it is for us to receive closure and that's why they refuse to give it (another zing of sorts)?  If so, would it be healthier to let it go?  Take that piece of power away from them?  IDK.  I feel somewhat validated knowing it wasn't me, it's my X's disorder.

[musicfan42]

There have been times when people have hurt me. My BPD ex hurt me but I don't feel closure from it. I dumped him, stood up for myself, didn't put up with it and carried on with my life. But is that closure? I don't think it is. I still feel resentment towards him because he hasn't acknowledged the harm he caused me. He didn't apologize, didn't have empathy... didn't see my side of things. I chose not to seek revenge on him however I definitely feel a grudge towards him. I don't like him, I don't respect him. I don't hate him however I don't want him in my life in any shape or form. If he apologized/made amends, then that would be a truly healing experience for me; just like I was able to have an amazing experience making amends to someone recently.

I feel the same way.  But do the disordered understand closure?  Know how important it is for us to receive closure and that's why they refuse to give it (another zing of sorts)?  If so, would it be healthier to let it go?  Take that piece of power away from them?  IDK.  I feel somewhat validated knowing it wasn't me, it's my X's disorder.

I don't really use the disorder as an excuse for my ex's wrongdoing to be honest.

But I was an angry person years ago. I had a lot of faulty core beliefs. Apologizing to someone= weakness. Admitting you're wrong= weakness. I had a lot of pride... wanted to save face whenever possible, maintain my dignity.

It was fine apologizing to the person I had hurt but the next day, I was racked my old familiar thoughts: "was I being weak for "backing down"? Was I weak for apologizing?" These thoughts filled my head for the entire day and made me feel very insecure. The very act of apologizing made me feel vulnerable afterwards. It was a very hard conversation to have... very humbling and years ago, I wouldn't have had that type of humility to see that I ever could be wrong... it was just everyone else who was wrong and I was always the victim, even if I had been the one who was wrong in reality.

I've been in therapy... done a lot of work on myself. I think it's important to add that I don't have a personality disorder... that people with personality disorder have deeply entrenched behavior patterns so even something like therapy may not actually help them. My disordered thoughts/behaviors just weren't as entrenched... I was willing to forge an alliance with my therapist... to do the work... .to be honest with my therapist... I've read that some borderlines who have a big problem with telling the truth may also lie to their therapist. I mean, why go to therapy if you're just going to lie? I was always brutally honest with my therapist so I think that made me an easy person to deal with in some respects. It gave my therapist an accurate picture of what was going on in my life whereas if someone is always lying all the time, it's impossible to say what's truly going on in their life because everything becomes distorted. I think that's the difference.

And people talk here about borderlines being in pain. When you're hurting other people all the time, it comes with a cost... it comes with a heavy burden... yes, you get what you want by being aggressive but there's a price to be paid for it in the long term. You just don't have any peace of mind... how can you? When I apologized to that person, I felt that burden lift. I knew that I had made amends to everyone I had hurt- that I had nothing to be ashamed of... that I could get on with my life. It felt unbelievably freeing. I could say with certainty "yes, I'm a good person... yes, I deserve happiness". It was like the slate was just wiped clean and I had another chance at life really. It was such a powerful experience for me. I have peace of mind now... I don't have those nagging thoughts in my mind anymore. I don't wonder whether I'm weird or abnormal etc. All those horrible thoughts have just gone.

[Perfidy]

Closure... Validation... There's only one thing on my mind. I can't get it from her. Amnesia... That's what I want. Every single thought of her. Every single memory lost in obscurity. Yeah... .

I live in my now. I look to the future and plan. The memories persist. I'm not debilitated as I was. I'm able to function proficiently. I'm alert and aware. Not a zombie stuck in limbo anymore. Making new memories. It's a curse. This remarkable mind I have. It captures everything. I'll figure it out.

[santa]

You have to find closure yourself because you won't get it from them.

Just remember that they are doomed to be a miserable person forever and that they'll destroy your life if you let them. You've escaped. Just rejoice in the fact that you don't have someone close to you trying to ruin you everyday.

[Perfidy]

You have to find closure yourself because you won't get it from them.

Just remember that they are doomed to be a miserable person forever and that they'll destroy your life if you let them. You've escaped. Just rejoice in the fact that you don't have someone close to you trying to ruin you everyday.

[/quote

F ing word! This is golden! Lets walk on the beach and know home

[myself]

Over the years, I have seen the closure topic analyzed from many people - the conclusion that I have come to is this... .it isn't closure we crave - it's over/door is closed - it is validation a non is craving.

Nons want to be validated they mattered, it was real and their feelings are now hurt.

Seeking Balance, what have you learned to be the best ways for us to find validation, from those who have posted about finding it? Your own ways to find this balance?

[Phoenix.Rising]

I second Myself's question, Seeking Balance.

Please enlighten this fool (me).

PR

[seeking balance]

Over the years, I have seen the closure topic analyzed from many people - the conclusion that I have come to is this... .it isn't closure we crave - it's over/door is closed - it is validation a non is craving.

Nons want to be validated they mattered, it was real and their feelings are now hurt.

Seeking Balance, what have you learned to be the best ways for us to find validation, from those who have posted about finding it? Your own ways to find this balance?

Radical acceptance

BPD is what it is... .the relationship is over, that is the closure.  The facts of the disorder and letting myself heal with time... .own what is mine and let go of what isn't.

My balance, well... .I practice what I preach to the best of my ability.  I cried a lot, yet I still did the basics... .exercise, moderation, journal, gratitude list... .I became ok with being sad when I needed to and I certainly let myself feel happy or excited when those moments happened.

The thing is, BPD or not, all relationships ending hurt.  This relationship is amplified with a loaded bond, so when it ends we feel duped.

Validation that it was real or that we mattered?  Comes from the facts, BPD is triggered by intimate relationships, the very fact we became the trigger means we mattered.  Just because it is over and we hurt doesn't mean we didn't matter and by the facts of the disorder, a pwBPD is just not capable of healing our hurt... .we must do that, on our own.

Lilmissunshine hit the target on the opening post.  We get our validation here, from our peers... .the door is closed... .BPD is what it is.

[Phoenix.Rising]

Validation that it was real or that we mattered?  Comes from the facts, BPD is triggered by intimate relationships, the very fact we became the trigger means we mattered.  

Thank you.

[babyspook]

Seeking Balance is absolutely right - Radical acceptance.  There is no red pill/blue pill cure for closure in BPD relationships.  Just educating yourself about this disorder and accepting reality for what it is  - that's the only way I've been able to move past that emotional turmoil I was in and start putting one foot in front of the other.