Opinions please. Think I've accidentally caused damage.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Ok, long story short as possible... .

Dec 13th I caught my ex lying & also found out about dating website she was on. I walked away & straight into NC.

21st Dec, she asks with nice friendly txt where to leave my presents?

I don't reply.

22nd Dec, She txt's same again & I again don't reply.

23rd Dec, sends her brother here with the presents & I tell him to return them.

She then txt's that she'll leave them at her parents for me to collect!

I again, don't reply.

Now here's the thing... .She is close to her parents (lives 10 mins away) & has two young sons 6 & 8 yrs old. Her parents are very loving grandparents to her two sons. My Un-diagnosed ex planned to spend Xmas day at home & Boxing Day at her parents.

She txt'd her sister who was at the parents several times on Xmas day to enquire if I'd collected the presents. Sister kept replying 'no we haven't seen him'.

Her father called me up Boxing Day evening & said about my presents from her. I explained I didn't want them & she should do what she wishes with them.

Saw her father today & found out she (and the children) still have not been round there. No falling out with her folks, they don't know why they've not seen her or the grandchildren?

My ex's mum is very upset.

Is it possible, that those unwanted gifts from her that remain uncollected, are confirmation of my abandoning her? Could not wanting to face that be why she has not been seen at her folks place all over Christmas?

It's weighing on my conscience that two little boys & two grandparents have not seen each other because Ive left a clear message under that Christmas tree.

It's bothering me. I can think of no other explanation for her 'no show'. It's the first year she's failed to show!

Views please guys & gals.

Cheers, Moonie.

[Moonie75]

Ok, long story short as possible... .

Dec 13th I caught my ex lying & also found out about dating website she was on. I walked away & straight into NC.

21st Dec, she asks with nice friendly txt where to leave my presents?

I don't reply.

22nd Dec, She txt's same again & I again don't reply.

23rd Dec, sends her brother here with the presents & I tell him to return them.

She then txt's that she'll leave them at her parents for me to collect!

I again, don't reply.

Now here's the thing... .She is close to her parents (lives 10 mins away) & has two young sons 6 & 8 yrs old. Her parents are very loving grandparents to her two sons. My Un-diagnosed ex planned to spend Xmas day at home & Boxing Day at her parents.

She txt'd her sister who was at the parents several times on Xmas day to enquire if I'd collected the presents. Sister kept replying 'no we haven't seen him'.

Her father called me up Boxing Day evening & said about my presents from her. I explained I didn't want them & she should do what she wishes with them.

Saw her father today & found out she (and the children) still have not been round there. No falling out with her folks, they don't know why they've not seen her or the grandchildren?

My ex's mum is very upset.

Is it possible, that those unwanted gifts from her that remain uncollected, are confirmation of my abandoning her? Could not wanting to face that be why she has not been seen at her folks place all over Christmas?

It's weighing on my conscience that two little boys & two grandparents have not seen each other because Ive left a clear message under that Christmas tree.

It's bothering me. I can think of no other explanation for her 'no show'. It's the first year she's failed to show!

Views please guys & gals.

Cheers, Moonie.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Moonie-

If you actually broke up with her on the 13th you no longer have any responsibility to her.  What she does now is her business and you can't be held responsible for it.  You never were actually, but when we're emotionally enmeshed with someone and take on a caretaking or rescuing role, we assume responsibility for things we shouldn't; my borderline ex was a full time job with overtime, and I set about 'fixing' her, which was the wrong thing to do, but that was the dynamic of the relationship.

Anyway, if you promised to do something then do it, to keep your own conscience clear, but beyond that she's on her own.

[Moonie75]

I don't feel a responsibility to her. I just thought on reflection that I should've known better. I should've known rejecting her gifts could trigger her & shouldn't have left the situation where she might fear going there out of fear of abandonment confirmation.

Don't know how else I could've done it.

But knowing what I do about BPD, abandonment fears & triggering etc, maybe I should've known better?

I don't want to be with her. But also didn't mean to leave a trigger signal at her folks for Xmas.

Maybe I'm just a softy that wishes the children & grandparents didn't suffer for her issues over the gifts?

[free-n-clear]

  You didn't abandon her. It wasn't you on the dating site. She may have left the gifts at her parents in an effort to 'guilt' you into accepting them, but as fromh2h says, you can't hold yourself responsible for that. It hurts all the more when young kids are involved. My uBPDxgf's 2 sons, 8 & 5, love me more genuinely than she ever did, and it's made Christmas hard for me, but I've gotta move on. Gonna take my mind off it today by watching the cricket. Your blokes might just have a shot in this test!

[GreenMango]

I don't believe its the presents.  Her not showing at her folks for whatever reason is on her.  It's sad she makes these choices and hurts others.

Try not to take on too much guilt.  She's a grown woman.

[babyspook]

Moonie, you said you caught her lying and the dating websites she was on so you initiated NC.  Excellent move and good for you!  Now you're worried about triggering those fear of abandonment issues in her?  You detached yourself physically from her (and for good reasons) but everything you're saying indicates that you're still walking on eggshells around her feelings and reactions.  Don't.  Just don't.  Work on detaching from her emotionally.  Stop beating yourself up over something you're actually doing right.  Accepting the gifts only shows her you're still "connected" to her in some way and that fuels the fire for more recycling.  Stick to your decisions and don't doubt yourself. 

[arn131arn]

Moonie, we made a pact a week ago to go NC and never look back. I broke that x mas day when I went to open presents santa left with her and my son. It blew up in my face, she wasn't even there, bro! She slept at my replacement's house, I left at 930 am and she still hadn't been home with her son on x mas morning. I cried the rest of the day. That is the LAST time I give this sick demented person power over what I do and How I feel! She's burned her last bridge with me

[sadinnc98]

Moonie, you said you caught her lying and the dating websites she was on so you initiated NC.  Excellent move and good for you!  Now you're worried about triggering those fear of abandonment issues in her?  You detached yourself physically from her (and for good reasons) but everything you're saying indicates that you're still walking on eggshells around her feelings and reactions.  Don't.  Just don't.  Work on detaching from her emotionally.  Stop beating yourself up over something you're actually doing right.  Accepting the gifts only shows her you're still "connected" to her in some way and that fuels the fire for more recycling.  Stick to your decisions and don't doubt yourself. 

I agree with this completely! You did the right thing... I promise you. Stay the course and stay away... I understand your thoughts bc I have caught my BF lying and I know he is cheating (also caught him on dating sites before) and I still worry about abandoning him and making him feel bad... but you are doing the right thing. You are strong and I admire you!

[Undone123]

Shame my man... .that's what I think.

She doesn't want to have to face the parents as they may say "What have you done to that nice boy moonie"?

[heartandwhole]

I agree with the other posters, Moonie.  She is a grown woman, responsible for her actions.  You didn't "make" her not go to her parents.

I'm sorry that the parents and children missed out, it's sad, and it's understandable that you are feeling bad about that.  Even if you had accepted the presents, that doesn't mean this wouldn't have happened – you can't know or control that. 

[Aussie0zborn]

Moonie, I think you are over analysing a situation you can't know anything about. You have no idea what happened or where she was. Maybe she got a better offer and didn't want to tell her parents she'd be spending Christmas Day with the better offer?

She is not your problem and you can't go fixing up her mess. She will work it out with her parents in due course. Right now, you need to stay the course and stick with NC.

[babyducks]

I agree with the other posters, Moonie.  She is a grown woman, responsible for her actions.  You didn't "make" her not go to her parents.

I am with heartandwhole,  her choices are her choices... .let her be responsible for them.   It's a gift to her.

[lost not dead]

She is trying to manipulate you into contact. Pick up the present and you have to thank her. Then the whole interpretation thing begins.

She is playing a childish game to engage you. I was married to mine for 15 years and she is a master. When I won't respond she hurts the kids so I have to. If I dont she goes after my mother. If that doesnt work she starts a campaign of me abusing and neglecting the kids which I have custody of all of them. She has even tried using the law. Don't give in to the hit tests because they only get worse.

[seeking balance]

I agree with the other posters, Moonie.  She is a grown woman, responsible for her actions.  You didn't "make" her not go to her parents.

I'm sorry that the parents and children missed out, it's sad, and it's understandable that you are feeling bad about that.  Even if you had accepted the presents, that doesn't mean this wouldn't have happened – you can't know or control that. 

ditto

Taking this a step further, the fact she triangulated her parents and they allowed it to happen by calling you - well, this sort of shines a big light on the family dysfunction and lack of boundaries. 

You feeling guilt? - that same guilt was likely used to keep you in this relationship - perhaps spend some time with your T on this and work to the core so you can let it go.

Hang in there,

SB

[goldylamont]

Moonie i just wanted to commend you on being so strong with NC and not accepting the gifts. So strong, you are doing such a good job! Of course she is going to do all kinds of crazy things because now she is seeing that she can't control you. So all of her weird behavior is just her trying to regain control over you, not because she actually cares about you or how you feel. You don't want or need presents from her--seriously? What any of us wanted at some point in time we all realize we will never get; an apology, real honesty, taking responsibility, etc. The presents are just a tool to control you. Hang in there!

[Moonie75]

Thank you all for your replies.

After a couple days reflection I don't feel guilty about not accepting the gifts.

I do feel sad for her children not seeing their grandparents over the festive period, but my ex made that choice not me!

We have no ties financial or material what so ever. So I'm thinking her apparent extreme desire for me to accept the gifts was about knowing I'm 'still there'? She's berating me to everyone who'll listen but txt'd her sis several times asking if I'd collected the gifts. Odd behaviour from a woman who normally would think nothing of withholding the gifts or returning them to where she bought them.

My friend thinks they are a silent peace offering more than Xmas gifts. I caught her out & left her. "Please accept them so I know you're still hooked in" type of stuff?

Ordinarily in a break up she'd tell me to burn in hell & shudder at the thought of gift giving, Xmas or otherwise.

I've struggled a lot with NC this last week. I'm so angry about the dating site & lying about where she was etc. I'm desperate to vent at her! I know it will be futile & leaving is my only healthy option... .But so feckin angry about it all. And further angered by what I feel is a gift giving game to keep me hooked in!

I feel I've taken back my power in walking away. But now it's requiring all my power to stay silent.

Thank you for reading, considering my situation & replying.

[Cardinals in Flight]

Moonie said,

"I feel I've taken back my power in walking away. But now it's requiring all my power to stay silent."

Exactly the place that I am in now, along with deeply disturbed at how easy this is for the XpwBPD.

CiF

[fromheeltoheal]

Moonie said,

"I feel I've taken back my power in walking away. But now it's requiring all my power to stay silent."

Exactly the place that I am in now, along with deeply disturbed at how easy this is for the XpwBPD.

The only thing that's easy is a borderline's ability to repress and project, since they've got lifelong practice.  But that doesn't mean healing, and part of the energy behind the rageful outburst on the new guy is the left over emotion around you; it just keeps getting louder, a flow-through system.

[Moonie75]

FromHtoH, that's exactly how I've viewed this situation.

Initially, I suffered for her marriage breakdown before me.

The next guy will suffer for what she's done to me!

And on & on it goes... .Gathering (from my view) more & more upset, venom, heartache and ultimately, loneliness! Desperate loneliness!

I love her & feel deeply sorry for her. But I can't fix her so I leave her to it & find a healthier life for me.

I think the chances are slim to hopeless, but I hope she finds some happiness one day.

[fromheeltoheal]

I love her & feel deeply sorry for her. But I can't fix her so I leave her to it & find a healthier life for me.

I think the chances are slim to hopeless, but I hope she finds some happiness one day.

Yeah, me too.  It would be so easy with some open, honest, heartfelt communication; that's the way relationships are supposed to work.  But hey, I was far from perfect, water finds its own level, and she does have a personality disorder.  Live and learn, or live and keep making the same mistakes; let's do the former.

[Conundrum]

I love her & feel deeply sorry for her. But I can't fix her... .

Moonie,

"Only love can bring the rain

That makes you yearn to the sky

Only love can bring the rain

That falls like tears from on high"

[heartandwhole]

Moonie,

I know it's hard.  Of course you love her and are having a difficult time staying silent.    You know, you don't have to stay silent.

Think deeply about what you want from contact – what need does it fill in you?