Our Responsibility Should We Decide to Stay

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This is who he is and without significant therapy for you both - this is your relationship.  There is no 1/2 with BPD - all or nothing.

If you are not done, you just are not... .nobody here can tell you what to do. If you stay, learn how to take good care of your own needs so you can be a proper partner for a pwBPD - once we do know the deal, we have a responsibility if we are staying in it -IMHO.[/quote]
So Seeking Balance had posted this in another thread and asked me to move it here so as not to hijack the original thread it was posted in.  So smart

I asked in response: 

Seeking:

You are so wise and so many of your comments I have read give me pause, as does this one.

So I get that if we stay, whether in the short- or long-term, once we have identified that our partners are BPD, or even something else that is destructive, we take responsibility in the sense that we know its limits and yet stay anyway.  I'm curious, though, what our responsibility looks like if we're staying in it means to you, just because you're smart and I really value your opinion from all the posts I've read of yours.  Are you talking about changing the way we communicate and relate and react, or to stop expecting what they can't give, or does it go beyond that?

I'm too smart to pass on the opportunity to pick the brain of Seeking since each post leads to me asking myself deeper questions than I have been. 

So I guess my question is, what responsibility do we have if we decide to stay, whether just for a while or forever?  And how do those responsibilities play out in the context of a BPD relationship? 

I know as I've thought about this, I recognize that I have a responsibility to recognize that he is only capable of giving so much, and that for me to expect more is setting us both up for failure and resentment.  I've had to get real with myself about what my needs were and whether or not he's capable of meeting them.  Then it became my responsibility to figure out how to get my needs met myself.

The part I struggle with and that has held me up in the past is I will identify things that I need in my life that he can't meet, i.e. intellectual conversation.  So I will meet someone with whom I can have these deep, insightful conversations, and he sets out to ruin that relationship any way that he can.  I usually allow him to meet the person himself, limit outside interactions to the bare minimum, usually corresponding via e-mail or telephone so as not to get him all riled up, take his calls or respond to texts while I've been out.  As usual, though, he ratchets up the "punishment" to the point where it all becomes not worth it, and we're back to square one. 

So for the rest of you, when we decide to stay, for whatever length of time, what responsibilities do we then have in the context of a successful relationship?  What responsibilities do we have to ourselves and to our partners, and how do we reconcile those when they're in direct contradiction to one another so often? 

Until recently I saw my responsibility as having to help him -- to change his behaviors, to gain insight, et cetera.  I know now that I was taking responsibility for things that I have no business tackling, so I'm curious to see what everyone thinks we ARE responsible for in these relationships. 

[karma_gal]

This is who he is and without significant therapy for you both - this is your relationship.  There is no 1/2 with BPD - all or nothing.

If you are not done, you just are not... .nobody here can tell you what to do. If you stay, learn how to take good care of your own needs so you can be a proper partner for a pwBPD - once we do know the deal, we have a responsibility if we are staying in it -IMHO.[/quote]
So Seeking Balance had posted this in another thread and asked me to move it here so as not to hijack the original thread it was posted in.  So smart

I asked in response: 

Seeking:

You are so wise and so many of your comments I have read give me pause, as does this one.

So I get that if we stay, whether in the short- or long-term, once we have identified that our partners are BPD, or even something else that is destructive, we take responsibility in the sense that we know its limits and yet stay anyway.  I'm curious, though, what our responsibility looks like if we're staying in it means to you, just because you're smart and I really value your opinion from all the posts I've read of yours.  Are you talking about changing the way we communicate and relate and react, or to stop expecting what they can't give, or does it go beyond that?

I'm too smart to pass on the opportunity to pick the brain of Seeking since each post leads to me asking myself deeper questions than I have been. 

So I guess my question is, what responsibility do we have if we decide to stay, whether just for a while or forever?  And how do those responsibilities play out in the context of a BPD relationship? 

I know as I've thought about this, I recognize that I have a responsibility to recognize that he is only capable of giving so much, and that for me to expect more is setting us both up for failure and resentment.  I've had to get real with myself about what my needs were and whether or not he's capable of meeting them.  Then it became my responsibility to figure out how to get my needs met myself.

The part I struggle with and that has held me up in the past is I will identify things that I need in my life that he can't meet, i.e. intellectual conversation.  So I will meet someone with whom I can have these deep, insightful conversations, and he sets out to ruin that relationship any way that he can.  I usually allow him to meet the person himself, limit outside interactions to the bare minimum, usually corresponding via e-mail or telephone so as not to get him all riled up, take his calls or respond to texts while I've been out.  As usual, though, he ratchets up the "punishment" to the point where it all becomes not worth it, and we're back to square one. 

So for the rest of you, when we decide to stay, for whatever length of time, what responsibilities do we then have in the context of a successful relationship?  What responsibilities do we have to ourselves and to our partners, and how do we reconcile those when they're in direct contradiction to one another so often? 

Until recently I saw my responsibility as having to help him -- to change his behaviors, to gain insight, et cetera.  I know now that I was taking responsibility for things that I have no business tackling, so I'm curious to see what everyone thinks we ARE responsible for in these relationships. 

[seeking balance]

Well Karma_gal - I said I would give you my perspective so keep in mind all who read, this is only my opinion and not something that I hold for everyone, only myself.

So, when I came here - I had read SWOE, my ex and I were in MC, I had a T (had my own mother issues), ex had a T & P and I had just found out ex had been continuing affairs... .I was shocked, stunned, scared and very sad.  It was much easier to focus on my ex's issues than my own.

I think it was Steph who mentioned Radical Acceptance in a way that I finally "heard" it.  Meaning BPD is what it is - a pwBPD is going to have triggers and maladaptive coping... .this is a fact; how I handle that is up to me.

Another thing that I read here that hit me was "don't make things worse".  When I looked in the mirror, I was a queen at making things worse - biting my tongue was not a strong suit of mine.

If I believe my ex has BPD or very strong BPD traits and cheating is in her maladaptive coping tool belt when I traveled for work, that is a situation that is not likely to change.  It just isn't - radical acceptance.

Knowing myself, I need a partner who is rooted in reality and consistency - it is fundamental for me or I get angry.  This is my issue, stems from my family where I was the "problem" even if I wasn't there.  My core stuff is triggered by the very nature of BPD.

As such, Radical Acceptance and my responsibility means that I am not a good fit for a pwBPD, even with one working a recovery program... .I have a hard time validating bad behavior... .I am much better at validating feelings, but inconsistent behavior - gets me fired up.

My responsibility lies now in my relations with my mother who I believe is some PD or PDish traits.  Radical Acceptance - I make sure I am emotionally balanced before talking to her.  I do self talk for not taking on her crap.  I visit and have my own space so I don't blow it... .and finally, I have accepted her for who she is even if she doesn't feel like we have a good relationship, I know it is as good as it can be based on the limits - and that is ok for me most of the time.  I let myself cry or process emotions as I need to and I also hold my boundaries firm even at the expense of anger from her - her anger is better than losing my sanity.

I use the staying board tools - SET/DEARMAN and I don't JADE - this stuff does work and it gets easier with practice.  This is my responsibility if I am going to engage with her since I believe if nothing else, she has PD traits.


One of the best quotes - I think United for Now is the author of goes something like this:

Trying to teach a duck to bark like a dog doesn't work and only pisses the duck off - Radical Acceptance indeed.

Not sure if this answers your questions, but that is my 2 cents that you asked for 

Peace,

SB

[dontknow2]

Hello karma_gal,

In a relationship, two people commit to understanding their own needs, learn to understand the other, deciding what is/isn't comprisable, finding a workable solution within their capacity, and continue a life together. I think my relationship with dxBPDh is the same except with these extremes: 1) every (frustrating) detail is important and 2) a serious chronic illness has already started 3) personal self-growth & understanding is more like climbing Mt. Everest instead of hiking through Appalachians.

If I had any responsibility, a key piece for me is to hard-wire the extremes above, make my decisions in the moment, and drop all labeling: friends, lovers, spouse, partner, roommates, coparents, etc... I was always trying to find a box. I realized this relationship doesn't fit in a box. There is no label for it. It is a moment by moment decision on what to do and there is no way around it.

My self growth has been incredible through the toils of the relationship. Now that I think about it, self-growth is my top value and reason why I've hung in there so long. I grow more in or related to my relationship than anything else in life, even more than parenting.

[peacebaby]

<<So I guess my question is, what responsibility do we have if we decide to stay, whether just for a while or forever?  And how do those responsibilities play out in the context of a BPD relationship? >>

We are always responsible for our own actions, even when our actions look more like inaction.

I was not responsible for my partner's anger, I was not responsible for the ways she took it out on me. However, I was responsible for continuing to live with her and allowing her to treat me that way.

[karma_gal]

Seeking:

Once again so many great nuggets in your post. I thought I knew what radical acceptance was but it appears I need to do some more reading and learning because my version isn't quite as radically accepting as it should be. I think mine is radical acceptance "but," so I have some work to do there.

The part I loved best was your being able to recognize, and admit not only to yourself but all of us, that part of this is coming to terms with how maybe we just can't have a pwBPD in our life. Like you said I can see now after reading this how my H triggers all my childhood issues and that probably adds a layer if complexity to an already volatile mix between he and I and it may be a lot of the reason this relationship is so toxic. It also gave me pause to read that because it made me realize how much more work lies ahead for me in dealing with my FOO issues.

In re not making things worse I chuckled at your being the queen because that is totally me. I absolutely suck at validating his distorted reality and donning kid gloves to deal with him. I see how it can help but I just can't do it. I scared myself when I admitted as such in another post. I just don't have it in me to make one more compromise, offer one more shred of validation, or engage in one more argument where I am being torn down but expected to be the bigger person because I am the only one in this R who is capable of doing so. I think that was my aha moment where I really knew this is going to work. He is not capable of being a true partner and I am not willing to be the kind of partner he needs to have any semblance of normalcy.

If I am being honest the only way I am going to be a good partner at this point in my life is if I am partnered with someone who is reasonable and on firm footing in reality. I have had enough fantasy stuff to last a lifetime.

Ok I suck at doing this on my phone. Will post again when I get to my computer. So far this looks like one giant line of text so I hope it posts better on the site!

[an0ught]

Interesting question. For the record we have related material:

 - LESSONS on the staying board: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56206.0

 - article here outlining the overall interaction play-book: https://bpdfamily.com/content/support-child-therapy

 - Workshop Emotional caregiver - how do we handle it? https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=173897.0


I think ultimately there is an overriding responsibility to ourselves and a commitment to that is needed. There is plenty of material from the professional side on how to help a pwBPD. There is some material here on the board on how to live with one. But at the end of the day it is ourselves we need to take care first - and as codependents this is something that can take the backseat if we don't watch. This is not incompatible with staying - without it one would sooner or later get stuck with permanent resentment. Being honest about our self interests is also necessary to have a clearer picture of the interests of our loved one and the interests of us as relationship. The question "what is in it for me" is a valid one and should be asked once in a while. Not always needs an answer but not having one is something to ponder about.

Personally this shifted a lot over the past few years. From rescue, not wanting to repeat mistakes, learning skills and getting stronger, overcoming my childhood, not letting go of someone I'm strongly attached to and now enjoying living with someone I love and loves me.

Boundaries are important which require commitment to protect that needs ultimately be rooting in a commitment to your values and yourself. And a commitment to support the pwBPD should only be made within these boundaries.

One of the turning points for me was the realization that I could and might walk out for the sake of myself. Gave me the strength to make change that I did not dare to do before.

Boundaries again: Not to become the therapist. That is a tricky one. The longer you are here the more you learn it gets more impossible to ignore it. We are validating day in and day out (with immediate benefits to us in situational clarity for us and possible calming effect on the pwBPD). If we are good it may get adopted and may even lead to better self validation ability in the pwBPD. Positive side effect of us acting in an exemplary manner but if we aim our actions at getting the pwBPD to learn validation it gets close to crossing the boundary. Commitment to respecting the other - often irrational (RA) - person is paramount. In this and so many other senses respect, respect and respect are key. And we start at point zero and need to reclaim it and may need to reclaim self respect too on the the way.

Boundaries again: Not become a parent. Yes, we may be partners of someone who at times is a teenager but still we are partners and have a sexual relationship. It gets odd when we act as parents or let us pushed to become parentified.

Commitment to validation in a broader sense. We got lots of threads on how to validate negative emotions and avoid invalidation - validation 101. But there is also "don't validate invalid" and "may need to invalidate invalid". Taking into account twisting, splitting, distortion it is only natural that at one point in time the relationship resides in Oz. Getting back and staying in Kansas requires a fair amount of grounding in reality - which can be a clawing back process for a while. Getting back requires SET (with T often being not so nice reality). Also not to forget we must display valid behavior from our side e.g. not spinning a story when being late but facing up to it.

Validation as a connecting tool. Without wanting to understand better whatever it is there to be understood it will be impossible to maintain a relationship. There are more boundaries needed than in a normal relationship and we start out with less. So introducing them over time will lead to a phase of conflict and there will be at times strong centrifugal forces.

Commitment not to avoid conflict.

That is a hard one. I feel we have many more but they are not so big.

These changes took some time and there were some painful realizations on how I contributed to the mess and had to change.

Commitment to process over tactical goals. Whatever the personal process is (the LESSONS are a good starting point). As long as we control our behavior we are somewhat safe. As soon as we run after small intermediate goals we are open to manipulation especially particularly as we have co-dependent traits. This may require acceptance that some intermediate results may not reachable as planned or at all. This may require accepting a risk to the relationship or even the break-up.

Commitment to a future relationship. We know whatever relationship we aimed for in the past - it did not work out. Time has gone by and even if possible going back there won't work. So what is our vision of how we want to be and how we want to relate to our pwBPD? We can't change our pwBPD but within what boundaries should this relationship be? We are not there but we need some sort of direction to see whether we are on course, off course or chase a goal that can't be reached.

This is who he is and without significant therapy for you both - this is your relationship.  There is no 1/2 with BPD - all or nothing.

Well, there are all or nothing commitments, they are not 1/2. But I would argue they are specific, not unconditional i.e. without boundaries and are in balance with myself interests.