What do I want?

[clairedair]

The first morning of this new year started the same way previous mornings have started - I lie awake hours before I need to be up and I can't get back to sleep because of some kind of gnawing feeling.  I can't quite describe it but it's like something is incomplete and very sad and I end up asking myself "what do you want Claire?" and not coming up with an answer.

In years gone by when my exH and I were in the midst of our dysfunctional cycle of make-up/break-up, I knew that the answer was "I want ex and I want it to work".  I no longer want this and it's been over a year since our last split.  I have a newish job I really enjoy that is giving me confidence; I have great family and friends and, very importantly, my kids are enjoying life.   I don't want another partner because I met my ex just after leaving home so have gone from being daughter to wife/mother and I think it's time to just be me for a bit.

I had a brilliant first day of 2014    - all my kids home, got asked to join in a team game from the sidelines and really enjoyed myself; got invited to go for a drink with the folks I played with and had fun; lovely New Year meal with family, great TV programme plus enough housework in between to keep some order.  A good 'all round' day.  I so want to do things like play the new sport; socialise more etc but until I start sleeping properly, it's going to be difficult to have the motivation and energy.  

I wish I knew the answer to my own question.  I feel it's related to the lack of closure but I know that there's no way that's coming yet can't seem to accept this?

Not really looking for anyone else to answer - I thought maybe if I wrote it down, I might have a eureka moment!  Still waiting... .

Claire

[heartandwhole]

Hi clairedair,

Here I am, not answering. 

Just wanted to say that discovering what I want has been a challenge for me in my life, too.  Cheering for you.  Let us know what you find. 

[Lucky Jim]

Hi clairedair,  I admire your honesty in describing that gnawing feeling, which I know well.  Early morning are the worst for me, then that feeling seems to pass as I get going on my day.  I think "what do you want" is the right question for all of us Nons who have weathered the BPD storm and come out the other side.  For me, it's sort of like being washed up on a beach and looking around to see what might be useful to me.  In Iron John, Robert Bly refers to the "golden threads" that appear from time to time, indicating things that are intrinsic to our self and what we really want or like, or things that are particularly meaningful to us.  He suggests pulling on those threads to see where they lead.  Maybe you will come across a few golden threads yourself in 2014!  Lucky Jim

[seeking balance]

Hey Clair,

I know that feeling and it lasted for a long time... . last summer, I kinda just decided to let that feeling just be and stop focusing on letting it go as much as accept it was there.  2013 - my discipline was around affirmations and gratitude - I had read so much about both over the years, that I committed to doing it routinely.   

Not sure exactly what or when, a few weeks ago I think - but that gnawing feeling is gone - all I can say is I feel lighter, more like me.  I am in the moment much more... . happy.  No big thing happened, no "aha", no new person, not a new job, it's just not there.

No idea if this makes sense.

Cheers to 2014, sounds like you had a great start! 

Peace,

SB

[clairedair]

In Iron John, Robert Bly refers to the "golden threads" that appear from time to time, indicating things that are intrinsic to our self and what we really want or like, or things that are particularly meaningful to us.  He suggests pulling on those threads to see where they lead.  Maybe you will come across a few golden threads yourself in 2014!  Lucky Jim

Thanks Lucky Jim - I like the mental image of golden threads that your reply brought up so will try to watch out for them!  I did post elsewhere yesterday about noticing things that generated a positive feeling and things that created negative feelings and trying to build more of the positives into my life e.g. I always notice piano playing in music and so have started to save for a piano of my own (I had one long ago) because I want to start playing again.  It wasn't a conscious thought for some time; just a realisation that I had been 'hearing' the piano if that makes sense.  Playing sport yesterday was also a positive - made me feel alive.

Here I am, not answering. 

h&w    and thanks for the support

2013 - my discipline was around affirmations and gratitude - I had read so much about both over the years, that I committed to doing it routinely.   

Not sure exactly what or when, a few weeks ago I think - but that gnawing feeling is gone - all I can say is I feel lighter, more like me.  I am in the moment much more... . happy.  No big thing happened, no "aha", no new person, not a new job, it's just not there.

Hi SB - this did makes sense thanks.  A bit like the piano realisation above - it wasn't an overnight thing.  I had a lousy day today after such a good time yesterday.  Nothing in particular but I had this sudden feeling of failing my children and became very upset. I  had been on the phone to my mother at the time and wasn't actually talking about anything deep and meaningful but the conversation triggered a quick downward spiral and the tears came. She was great and said she'd phone me later and she let me go off and have a good cry! She spoke later about someone she'd met who had talked about waking up one day 'with a song in her heart'.  I really liked that phrase. 

As I mentioned in first post, I have so much to be grateful for and I think that sometimes makes it worse - I can't understand why I still struggle and feel so low at times.    I just keep hearing his words/remembering his actions and can't seem to process it all enough or at a pace that I want to.  Because I took so long to see it as abusive, our children and some family/friends just see him as a bit mixed up and now see him happy* and me in a mess and I feel that they are getting impatient with me (but it may be me that's getting impatient with me!).  I want to explain why I'm like this but don't feel I can say too much without folk thinking it's just me being bitter because he left/remarried and I don't want to damage my kids' relationship with their father.

Writing this, I realise that this is part of what I want - validation from others who know us that whilst he may have his issues and deserve some compassion, his actions have been incredibly damaging.  I feel that others are minimising what happened because he seems settled and OK and that's easier for everyone else.

Thank you all so much yet again for your responses - can always count on folks here to pick me up 

*I think he's happy but I had a waking dream whilst tossing and turning this morning that I had received a text from him which just said "Is there a way out?".  Weird.

[LoveNotWar]

I think a relationship with a pwBPD is incredibly abusive; emotionally, physically or both. I think we all struggle and have at least a touch of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) as we disengage. It takes time to get past it.

My friends actually referred to my ex as a "rock star". He was very good at impressing people including me. When his BPD symptoms started I thought it had to be my fault because every one thought he was so great! I get what you're saying about your friends seeing him as OK.

Be patient with yourself, you are still healing from a VERY traumatic relationship.

LNW

[dontknow2]

As I mentioned in first post, I have so much to be grateful for and I think that sometimes makes it worse - I can't understand why I still struggle and feel so low at times.    I just keep hearing his words/remembering his actions and can't seem to process it all enough or at a pace that I want to.  Because I took so long to see it as abusive, our children and some family/friends just see him as a bit mixed up and now see him happy* and me in a mess and I feel that they are getting impatient with me (but it may be me that's getting impatient with me!).  I want to explain why I'm like this but don't feel I can say too much without folk thinking it's just me being bitter because he left/remarried and I don't want to damage my kids' relationship with their father.

Clairedair,

You are strong enough to feel your emotions and not hide from them or pretend. That is something to be proud of... . many people can't do it. Sadness, anger is part of the healing process. That is part of loving ourselves; allowing us to be what we need to be at any point in time.

I found it annoying when people would tell me "let it go" or act like they didn't understand when depressed after my ex moved out. I felt like a person just died in my life and my dreams were shattered on top of the emotional wounds left from the relationship... . Would someone really say "let it go" to someone grieving the death of a parent, even if the parent wasn't a good one?

I read an article that men are more likely to look happier more quickly after a breakup. Their coping mechanism is to pretend like everything is OK. In actuality inside, they are hurting just the same but won't let anyone know. That article was just talking about non-BPDs. So, it would be even worse for pwPD.

Wish you the best in this new year. You deserve it.

[winston72]

Thank you for your post, ClaireDair.  I find the moments at waking are the worst for me as well.  I suspect there is something biological about this time of day, but I don't know what that might be!  But I also think that I have spent my whole life being "other" directed and that the day begins without those signals.  I live alone now, having two grown kids and separating from my wife ten years ago.  I am "empty" until the external demands start, be they as simple as starting breakfast and then beginning the business day.  When the coffee is consumed and the day begins, that sensation usually departs, but I think it is by distraction more than genuine resolution.

I do not know what I want.  It is a problem!  And it is not as though there is some big range of options.  I am quite content with my daily life patterns and my vocation.  Perhaps it is better expressed as saying that I have not connected my inner self, my emotions, with my daily life.  There is a key part of myself that has not yet formed.  It better hurry up as I turn 59 tomorrow! 

I had a very difficult (wow, this is an antiseptic, politically correct description!) BPD/NPD, alcoholic, drug addicted mother and an alcoholic, depressed, withdrawn father.  Needless to say, the development of my inner world was not a priority in my upbringing!  From there to a marriage at 21, two kids to follow and an adulthood of performing by trying to be "good" and "do the right thing" and I just never paid much attention to my own self.  Actually, I think I had a lot of inner turmoil, anxiety, uncertainty, shame, self-loathing and dealt with it by running as fast as I could to be a good husband, father, businessman, etc.  I ended up alienated from myself and consequently disconnected from key people in my life.  And, of course, I do not know have the skills, the familiarity, to ability to live in a self-directed manner.  I do not know what I want... . and I do not know how to discover it.  Better said, I have no real experience of it.

I think, I hope that the ability to discover this is innate for every human.  That the method of discovery is simply (ha! simply but not simple!) is is the process of paying attention to and focusing on what is happening within ourselves... . and paying attention to it and acting on it. 

For me, the most recent BPD relationship was the apogee of my being "other" directed.  Her high demand personality was the perfect antidote for me need to define myself by the needs, demands, views, affirmations of others.  And when some balance in the relationship might have been achieved, or better said when it came time for me to leave very early on, I was found lacking.  I did not have the internal emotional or intuitive reflexes to lead me to a safer or healthier place. 

Okay... . I am going to end this post!  Obviously your post struck a nerve and stimulated some thinking for me!

[clairedair]

I found it annoying when people would tell me "let it go" or act like they didn't understand when depressed after my ex moved out. I felt like a person just died in my life and my dreams were shattered on top of the emotional wounds left from the relationship... . Would someone really say "let it go" to someone grieving the death of a parent, even if the parent wasn't a good one?

I've had to use this analogy a few times to try to explain to those close to me that I'm not going to be as OK as they'd like (and I'd like!) for a while yet.  For me it's almost a combination of losing part-parent (the telling me what to do part) and part-child (the needing attention/rescue part).  I've only had the one relationship in my adult life so I can't compare this loss to losing a partner but I suspect that it's more complex and difficult to recover from than other, healthier relationships.

I think that the fact that their dad has moved on so quickly and seems happy and settled makes it look to my kids that I am taking an age to 'move on' though they do appreciate that their dad's pace is probably not entirely healthy!

I am "empty" until the external demands start, be they as simple as starting breakfast and then beginning the business day.  When the coffee is consumed and the day begins, that sensation usually departs, but I think it is by distraction more than genuine resolution.

At least you are aware of this.  I think a lot of people deny that they are filling up their life with distractions and avoid attempts at finding a resolution because it's such hard, painful work at times.  I am enjoying my new job and find that it's less of distraction than previous job and more something that is helping me 'rebuild'.  Same with family/friends - I am definitely more 'engaged' and less likely to be going through the motions but there's still too much time where I feel 'achy' and ill at ease.  I find this frustrating because I am at a stage where I don't want to be in the relationship so can't quite understand why he's still consuming so much of my thought time.

I ended up alienated from myself and consequently disconnected from key people in my life.  And, of course, I do not know have the skills, the familiarity, to ability to live in a self-directed manner.  I do not know what I want... . and I do not know how to discover it.  Better said, I have no real experience of it.

I think, I hope that the ability to discover this is innate for every human.  That the method of discovery is simply (ha! simply but not simple!) is is the process of paying attention to and focusing on what is happening within ourselves... . and paying attention to it and acting on it. 

Given your childhood, I am amazed that you have this amount of self-awareness.  I hope you are proud of yourself for not giving up on yourself and that your birthday heralds another year of discovery.

Happy Birthday Winston 


I've thought more about 'what do I want?' and I think there are 3 things that keep me awake.  "what I want" in this context is more what I need from him in order to be able to get to what I want in terms of who I want in my life; how I want to spend my time; places I'd like to travel to etc.

I feel that I need to get these things from him before I can really move forward:

1. a recognition of what I contributed to the relationship

I heard over and over again that I had "never invested in the relationship" because I hadn't arranged date nights; spent enough time with him; been as emotionally and physically available as he'd have liked.  My working whilst he went back to school; my looking after house and children whilst working so he could undertake a doctorate; my looking after children whilst he played sport; my moving house and job many times to accommodate his need to move jobs constantly - none of this has been counted.  I can think of two occasions when there was some recognition but it never lasted - mostly I heard about his "sacrifices" (his word, not mine). 

2. an apology for calling me a w**re

Remembering him saying this and then later refusing to apologise still brings me down.  At the start of the real rollercoaster, I was utterly confused and completely terrified and very angry about what was going on and I made the mistake of falling for the attention of someone at work.  Nothing happened outside the office/no physical affair but I would say that it was an emotional affair.  I can forgive myself for it now but it was a source of deep shame for a long time and there were devastating consequences.  ExH continued to bring it up for seven years (it's only stopped because we have hardly any contact now). When my exH left and was instantly involved in a serious emotional and physical relationship with someone else, I asked him to apologise for the name-calling but was told that I was a w**re "because you were thinking about someone else when with me".  He came and went between me and the gf many times for years but I was never allowed to say he was 'cheating' or anything like that because he always felt he'd left me before reconciling with gf and vice versa so in his mind there could be no cheating.  And I know for a fact he thought about her when he was with me because I had to listen to him feeling sorry for himself not knowing what to do.  It's worse because he's a minister (not working in a church but in a related role) - he's liberal in his views and very understanding of others' human frailties but has acted like a chief pharisee when it comes to me. 

3.recognition that he and I were together until late 2012

one of the things that generates anger and shame is that although we were together a couple of times 2011/2012, he wouldn't tell his family/friends.  He said that this was because they would 'judge' him for his coming and going so I 'protected' him by going along with this. Yet he told me again and again that I wasn't authentic; that I was deceitful and that he was honest and would never lie.  I am angry with myself for allowing him to deny me.

As I finish the third, I can think of more but am starting to rant.  The fact that I feel I could type pages of this stuff tells me that I am not getting very far in reaching a point where I can give myself closure and let this stuff go.  I feel that it's all taking up space and time in my life that I could be filling with more positive things.

I KNOW that I will get no real closure from him.  I KNOW that if I did have a conversation with him, I would end up with more questions.

claire

[dontknow2]

I KNOW that I will get no real closure from him.  I KNOW that if I did have a conversation with him, I would end up with more questions.

I worked many months (if not years), using lots of energy, and got very creative to receive understanding, acknowledgements of what I went through, and apologies from my ex. When it happened, I couldn't believe it and was like eureka! But here is the kicker, he completely denied all of it later and talked as if none of it ever took place (even when I tried to argue it) within a month of his separation. My ex will hide from any guilt, shame, insecurity for long no matter what I do or need  :'( I found that more crushing than if he never did it in the first place. Now, I spent so much effort in trying to get it and felt like a fool.

Oddly no regrets, that was what I needed to do at the time and learned new ways to communicate... . but no closure from him 

[musicfan42]

Okay... . I am going to end this post!  Obviously your post struck a nerve and stimulated some thinking for me!

Your post was honestly brilliant winston72... I'd love to hear more of your thoughts on this subject. I was reading it, going "yep... I can relate to all of this".

[fromheeltoheal]

I do know what I want, the same thing I wanted with her, and she did a good job of creating the illusion that she could actually go there.  Right mindset, wrong girl, but that's history.

Regarding sleep, I recently quit smoking and quit drinking coffee, and getting those stimulants out of my system has been really helped.  I've always been pretty physically active, and removing the stimulants and stepping up the workouts I've found I'm sleeping a whole lot better, 8 hours straight, and I'm a lot calmer, more centered, think more clearly and I have much more energy.

When I get the big three in order, diet, sleep, exercise, my whole life goes better, and I'm in a much better place to ask the important questions like what do I want?  Who do I want to be?  What do I want to make out of this life?

[clairedair]

I worked many months (if not years), using lots of energy, and got very creative to receive understanding, acknowledgements of what I went through, and apologies from my ex. When it happened, I couldn't believe it and was like eureka! But here is the kicker, he completely denied all of it later and talked as if none of it ever took place

This was part of why I ended up reconciling several times - he would apologise and seem to see things from my viewpoint (mostly) - like you, dontknow2, I'd then experience the denial. This time there's been no reconciliation so I haven't had the 'apology fix' -just realised that when I read your post.

When I get the big three in order, diet, sleep, exercise, my whole life goes better, and I'm in a much better place to ask the important questions like what do I want?  Who do I want to be?  What do I want to make out of this life?

I made a deal with myself to spend last year on emotional health. This year my focus will be on physical health.  I needed to get further in my emotional healing first because whenever I have tried to get fitter, eat better etc I have had a 'low' spell and its all gone by the wayside so am hoping in 2014 to mange this better.  You make a good point abut it being in a better place to make decisions, ask questions etc when sleeping/eating well.

Take care

Claire.

[Lucky Jim]

Hi clairedaire,

Your interest in piano is, indeed, a golden thread that is worth pursuing to see where it leads . . . 

After walking on egg shells for years and pretending that things were good in my marriage to a pwBPD when they weren't, I am recommitted to being authentic, which sounds easy but, after repressing my feelings for so long, takes effort sometimes to make sure I'm doing things that are in alignment with my true self, if that makes sense.  I strive to listen to my gut feelings and spend time thinking from the neck down.  I was lost in a dark wood for a long time, but am finally back on my path, wherever it leads . . .

Lucky Jim

[clairedair]

After walking on egg shells for years and pretending that things were good in my marriage to a pwBPD when they weren't, I am recommitted to being authentic, which sounds easy but, after repressing my feelings for so long, takes effort sometimes to make sure I'm doing things that are in alignment with my true self, if that makes sense.  I strive to listen to my gut feelings and spend time thinking from the neck down.  I was lost in a dark wood for a long time, but am finally back on my path, wherever it leads . . .

Hi LuckyJim,

Were you consciously pretending to partner/others or to yourself? I am realising that my marriage was abusive and I have resisted that because I want to believe that it was mostly good.  Now I am not so sure.  So I think I was pretending to myself.  Not having been in another relationship meant I could tell myself that this was 'normal'.

What you say about authenticity and alignment does make sense and it's a really good way to describe what's happening with you now.  Sounds positive.  Do you know the phrase "can't see the wood for the trees"?  I feel a bit like that - like I was lost in woods but I couldn't see that I was lost until I was on the path away from the trees.  Ironically, exH pushed me onto the path eventually by leaving permanently so I guess I have him to thank!

cheers

Claire

PS I will let you know when I compose my first concerto!

[clairedair]

should clarify that when I say I thought it was a good marriage and normal, I'm referring to the period before the real rollercoaster stuff started - I knew that some of the stuff going on then was far from healthy (though I then switched to another justification for staying)

[Lucky Jim]

Hi cd, no doubt most of us Nons have come up with various justifications to explain why we stayed in unhealthy and/or abusive situations with our BPD SO's, which is where the pretending often comes into the picture, both to ourselves and others.  Getting pushed onto a different path is not such a bad thing, in my view, though the terrain is pretty steep at first.  LJ