Thoughts?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi I'm new and posted my long story on the new commers page. I am really looking for insight but haven't gotten any responses. I wish to move on and make sense of everything. Would you read my post and provide any thoughts/feedback you might have I'd greatly appreciate it.

I have enjoyed reading the forums it has been a source of comfort in a very challenging time.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=216927.0

[Lol4fun]

Hi I'm new and posted my long story on the new commers page. I am really looking for insight but haven't gotten any responses. I wish to move on and make sense of everything. Would you read my post and provide any thoughts/feedback you might have I'd greatly appreciate it.

I have enjoyed reading the forums it has been a source of comfort in a very challenging time.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=216927.0

[winston72]

Hey Lol4fun!  And welcome to bpdfamily.  It does not sound like this relationship was any fun!  I am sorry for the aggravation and the confusion you experienced.   

Of course, nobody can make any diagnosis of someone other than a mental health professional.  However, a diagnosis is not necessary to gain some understanding of what happened.  May I suggest that he told you a bit of what was going on in his own words?  In your post you write, "I once said to him why are you dating me if you don't like anything about me? I feel constantly criticized. He said yup been told that before and that he can do that bc he doesn't have to have things in his life he doesn't want. When I said I feel damned if I do damned if I dont he again said yup that's how it frequently is with me. That he wants things to always be perfect."

From the balance of your post, I would say that he behaved consistently with this self-evaluation.  That type of behavior is not going to create a successful relationship.  So, the question is not ""So please tell me is he likely BPD or am I the crazy one and him sane?" but rather whether or not his type of personality is one that you would enjoy and like to attach to on a long term basis. 

As I read your post, I was thinking that often times people at this stage in the relationship will deepen their commitment and try "harder" to make the other person happy... . to generate a more loving response in their partner by altering their own actions.  I think you have taking a very healthy step by stopping at this point and reflecting on what happened. 

May I ask you, what was it that attracted you to him in the first place? 

[Lol4fun]

I was attracted to his openness how easily he was able to share and talk about his life (growing up ect). I liked how he initially treated me he was very sweet to an interest in my life asked me questions ect. Was a gentleman always holding the door open, opening the car door, acted extremely caring & gave me a lot of attention. He was always willing & wanting to help with anything. There was also a strong attraction/connection probably just chemistry but it felt like we had known each other longer than we did.

IDK I don't know any person who would really want to be with that type of personality one that makes you feel damned if you do damned if you don't, blows up, says mean things like I f ing hate you, or I hope you get sick too ect. Or finds fault with everything you do. I didn't necessarily try to change myself to fit him. But was open to looking at some of his criticism further to see if it had any merit. In the end I got out of a slump I had been in from being overwhelmed by my ADD & am so much more productive. Outside that I can't stoop to his level and act that immature. However, it's hard at the same time when your told this is why your r/s fail & that I just have no clue bc I've never been married. Heck if the way he treated me is how he treated his wife when they were married and that's what he thinks marriage is I don't want to ever be married.

[winston72]

I must say that I have been in several relationships with people who have treated me that way!  So, I must have wanted it at some level... . ugh!

The movement from being open and caring to rigid and critical can be quite disorienting, let alone painful.  It can trigger an impulse in ourselves to be self critical in order to retain the relationship.  Also, we can sometimes deny how painful it can be in order to keep the relationship in place.  Either of these tendencies can lead us to maintain bonds with people who are not good for us. 

What is the status of the relationship now?  It sounded like it is over, but wondering if you anticipate further contact with him.

[fromheeltoheal]

Hi Lol-

The BPD traits I see reading your post are the intense emotions, the way he was very open very early and you guys got intense very fast, the substance abuse, the constant criticizing, and the phone bombing.  Of course those things could apply to a lot of situations and this guy just got divorced, so it may not be a stable time for him, if he has those.

Anyway, the label doesn't really matter, although I think you're looking for a diagnosis to validate that you're not the crazy one?  Seems the relationship got intense very quickly, so did mine, especially the part about being very open and fawning over you initially.  Mine did that, and I only discovered later she busted through all my boundaries early and I was in a lonely, susceptible place at the time, so I actually welcomed all the attention and apparent concern for my well being.  But then, as is common around here, once the attachment was formed and she had her hooks in, she transformed into the btch from hell, caught me off guard, shocking really, and after all the closeness and sharing at the beginning I, like you, assumed it was something I did or didn't say, did or didn't do, whatever, got defensive constantly, and was in reaction mode constantly trying to fix it.  And the harder I tried the worse it seemed to get.  Someone with borderline traits like mine did needs to be in control, since being in control of someone else's life makes the thought that her own life is out of control easier to tolerate.  Also, if she could prey on my insecurities and having me feeling crappy enough about myself I won't leave, and abandonment is the worst thing that can happen to someone wired like her.

Bottom line: crappy relationship.  As you detach it will be important to identify what was his and what was yours and what you're responsible for; that will take awhile away from him to really get straight in your head.  And obviously someone who treats you like that, disrespectful, belittling, intense, paranoid, judgmental, and you end up feeling 'less than' or 'not good enough' is not someone you want to be in a relationship with, but learning any lessons there are there for your own growth can be the gift.  Take care of you!

[Lol4fun]

Thanks for the replies. They have definitely helped. I should add in addition to the blowing up at me he would also do the pushing me away by giving me the silent treatment and with drawing any type of connection (push/pull). If I tried to get a response he would push further away if I just left him be and didn't chase he would come right back acting like nothing happened and telling me how much I mean to him. I don't think I will hear anymore from him but really who knows? I see my lessons and they are to listen to my gut/intuition from the start. That voice told me don't go out with him again (after first date) bc he is not in a place where he can be in the type of relationship you want. I knew that deep down but, let the chemistry talk instead. Guys I have that type of chemistry with I need to stay away from. Granted they feel so familiar bc they are they trigger in me those old childhood wounds that we are all subconsciously trying to heal. I enjoy my life but had I been in a place of true happiness with myself no. I have great friends active social life but, some how have told myself that my life isn't complete unless I find that true companionship & mutually healthy true partnership I see my siblings all having with their husbands and wife.

I see now that I broke all the promises I made to my self regarding what I would and wouldn't settle for (ie. my boundaries) those were/are I will not date someone who hasn't been divorced for more than a year preferably 2, someone who uses illegal drugs, drinks every night and or more than I do (which is not much), someone who doesn't validate my feelings, anyone with anger issues, and anyone I have crazy off the charts chemistry with. When it comes down to it I didn't stand up for myself and say No I will not be treated like this I deserve to be treated with respect & there are plenty of other men who will treat me how I deserve to be treated. I don't have to settle bc I am afraid I won't find someone. It's just a feeling and when I recognize that feeling sit with it and acknowledge it for what it is I know and am able to handle it and move forward with confidence. I can't let anyone squash that confident woman that I am. I deserve & will find that man who will stand next to me & admire & support me & accept me for who I am & will never try to change me or make me feel less than.

I'm a true believer that this is my lesson to learn and when I demonstrate to the universe that I am staying true to myself and what I have said I will/will not tolerate I'm a relationship and walk away with my head high with confidence from the start never getting involved... . Then and only then I truly believe the universe will give me everything I have been looking for & wanting in my life.

Letting go though can still be hard!

[arn131arn]

Awesome! I never really realized that I was not strong enough to leave bc she had shook my self esteem. Now looking bac I can see the constant breakup/makeup cycles coupled with her knack for pointing out and preying on my insecurities helped me feel less than. This year I will do what it takes to get my self esteem back... . by doing estemable acts!

[fromheeltoheal]

Letting go though can still be hard!

Yes!  We all had mixed feelings, intense ones, if not, if it was all bad, we would have left right away.  A borderline's need to attach creates an intensely loaded bond with folks wired the right way, the ones attractive to a borderline, and all of that takes a while to untangle and process, although it can result in profound growth.  Motivated by pain once again, the most effective type of motivation usually, has caused me to reevaluate everything, the growth has been painful and rattling, but I'm better off now as a result and in hindsight it was very valuable; the 'experience' with my borderline ex fast-forwarded my own growth, and for that I thank her.

[Inside]

Lol4fun,

This guy’s poor exwife must be a wreck   It was not you.  Though he sounds a bit less ‘transparent’ than my exBPDgf … it’s all there, including his tinge of OCD and the cleanliness rituals.  It’s still hard to believe this disorder can be so similar. 

You ask: “So please tell me is he likely BPD or am I the crazy one and him sane?”  Don’t think I’d be stepping too far out on a limb to say yes, to me, his behavior sounds like classic BPD.  What really jumps out at me is the way he has you doubting yourself over petty ‘basic’ behaviors.  Then his many irritations and anger … the jealousness, the fear of abandonment … need for control.  I’m impressed you figured this out so quickly – it took me a crazy year of walking on eggshells before putting it together, with little to no help from her…

OK, now that you’ve split – stay that way!  Another strong BPD trait is recycling - I’ve now been through seven of them … and at times nearly too embarrassed to return here and admit it…  And, they can happen after a long period of time.  Now since you’ve discovered his condition (in my eyes at least) so soon – it may be easier to remove the hook.  For most, not so.  Just stay strong, and move on.  Keep in mind, the next guy won’t seem near as exciting, or move as fast … at least let’s hope not!  Your description of feeling as though you ‘knew him so well in such a short period of time’ is also classic.  They move fast and keep you off balance, while constantly projecting their inhibitions and traits toward you.  You stood firm, showing you’re not easily manipulated, so he moved on.  Good work!

You didn’t quite dodge the bullet … but were only grazed.  And once more – it is not you.   In fact, ‘you read’ impressively sound and will no doubt be a wonderful ‘catch’ for a wholesome guy.  Chalk this up to experience, hone up a bit more on BPD traits while they’re still in your head - and if another comes your way, step aside.  I seem to be reading how often they frequent online dating sites…  I don’t, and that’s one reason why.  My exBPDgf spent an inordinate amount of time and energy pretending to be someone she’s not, and I think both Facebook and online dating are near perfect proving and hunting grounds for their style of deception.  It may be painfully slow … but I’m attempting to find my next SO the old fashioned way… painfully slow  

[Lol4fun]

Inside,

I'm really not sure that his ex-wife is really a mess. Yes, she asked for the divorce and he raced to a marital counselor tried to get her to go she refused. This was in July. They used one lawyer, split things by sitting down and flipping coins for some things. He kept the house and she lived there with him up until a week before it was final... . Granted they slept in different bedrooms. Divorce was actually final mid-October. They are still FB friends and have gone out to eat together last time was early Dec.

I feel better knowing it wasn't really me. I know it takes two to tango so I played a little part in it by how I reacted, not setting boundaries etc. He did make a comment once how I know a lot about r/s and could be a therapist myself.  I believe he knew I found him out & that it took me way less time than it did his ex-wife. Who wants to have a person around who can call your bluff I get it. How things were left were that he left me & I at first pleaded and went along with his plan were he was going to date others to see if I'm right or wrong for him and if our issues are really worth working out. We had decided to come back and discuss a month from this past Monday. He also had his first date on Monday and was pissed that I might also go out if the opp arrived. That made him want to stop speaking to me and block me from his phone. Anyway, we have a mutual acquaintance/friend in common someone he works with and who I know from biking (have gone on trips with 4 other people and this person). So, I believe said person is a leak to him. I tested the theory on Tuesday when I was asked how my x-mass was. I was honest and then shared a few things that happened. This individual kinda supported my ex and I knew if it was true I'd get either an angry text and or the email of we will never be. Sure enough yesterday I got the email telling me he doesn't need a month to make any further decisions about us dating that he just doesn't see it ever working out you know the rest. I don't think he liked my response that I agreed nor my sincerity that I hoped in time/future might be able to be friends. He couldn't respond to that other than to say I already know the reasons why it ended and yada yada and some best wishes at the end. Not really sure why he now hates or must be cold to me but trying to figure it out makes my head hurt. So do they really recycle after saying something like that? If so yikes!

I think I spotted it quickly bc I had a past significant r/s that lasted 4 years that was with an alcoholic. I known I have co-dependent tendencies & if not vigilant I will before I know it gladly get on the crazy making train.

Thanks everyone for your wonderful insightful responses they have helped immensely!

[Inside]

Lol4fun,

You asked, “Not really sure why he now hates or must be cold to me but trying to figure it out makes my head hurt. So do they really recycle after saying something like that? If so yikes!”  --- Yes, Yikes!  

…from my experience, ‘they’ assume it will end, it always has.  But how will it end?  With them being ‘found out,’ and called on their behavior?  Or, them projecting their unacceptable behavior onto you and claiming ‘you’re crazy!’ …then call it quits in some dramatic way … all to keep from feeling they’ve been abandoned (yet again).

I think they actually ‘hate themselves,’ then attempt to redirect such hatred toward someone else because they can’t personally deal with or accept it.  And again, it’s not you – it’s them …they just want you to think it’s you.  I’d been confused (to put it lightly) by that behavior with my xuBPDgf for the longest time.  Someone less accepting or perhaps with more self esteem wouldn’t have tolerated it … and though I initially did, I also figured it out and began establishing and enforcing my boundaries.  And though vividly remembering the moment I discovered her BPD … I also remember the powerful relief to learn - It Wasn’t Me!  …It became almost ‘fun’ as I began to tweak our relationship back toward 'healthy.'  But, though numerous recycles, it continued to deteriorate, never near the original trust or intensity…

In fact …allowing those recycles to continue seems my chicken ___ way of not going ‘cold turkey’ (poultry metaphors ) …but just letting it wither with time while plowing through scar tissue.

It’s also sickening to be reminded of how they feel entitled (or at least present themselves that way) to freely spend time with other ‘potential mates’ -- yet our every glace is scrutinized!  She’d frequently split for some crazy mingling with ‘friends’ while I was expected to remain responsible and celibate.  Not that she was actually having sex with anyone else … at least that I ever found out about from friends (that would have been the end), but the constant teasing and attention seeking of men … as she no doubt attempted to groom my replacement…

You’ve done good, just be aware of the drug such relationships are akin to… and that relapses are frequent and easy – and usually initiated by them.  Knowing they’ll never find a permanent love, they rotate.  In fact …after a good month of NC from mine… a little probing email arrived a day ago.  Since she still owes me money … which is seeming less and less important (it’s just the thought of her having used me to that extent), or I’d delete and ignore her attempts at contact.  It can be a vicious cycle.  I hope for your sake he continues to find easier targets … which, sad to say, are folks like us…  pwBPD should have real labels   

Regarding his ex-wife … accomplished codependency... ?  Yah, and that ‘let’s remain friends’ deal … I’ve come to take that as ‘lets be F-buddies,’ which was an ongoing request of my pwBPD.  And though tempting, I wanted more… which I must have again confirmed at our last time together.  I’d spent a Friday night and Saturday with her … the entire time attempting to determine if I were included in her long-term plans.  With doubts serious enough to have decided to leave after being invited to bed - she had the lights out before I pulled out of her driveway.  Then no contact (aka the silent treatment) till this little email, though I’d text and e’d her afterwards…  Figured that must have felt like the ultimate in abandonment to her.  To me, something just felt wrong, and still does.  

Stay strong

[janey62]

Hi Lol4fun,

You certainly seem to have come a long way in understanding what has happened to you in a short space of time... . Good for you!  You seem like quite a wise person who is beginning to fight her way back... .

I like what you said here,

I'm a true believer that this is my lesson to learn and when I demonstrate to the universe that I am staying true to myself and what I have said I will/will not tolerate I'm a relationship and walk away with my head high with confidence from the start never getting involved... . Then and only then I truly believe the universe will give me everything I have been looking for & wanting in my life.

Letting go though can still be hard!

and I think we can all learn from it.  It is hard, but not impossible and takes courage and the support and love of those around us. 

I also loved what you said here  Arn131arn, it applies to me too... .

Awesome! I never really realized that I was not strong enough to leave bc she had shook my self esteem. Now looking bac I can see the constant breakup/makeup cycles coupled with her knack for pointing out and preying on my insecurities helped me feel less than. This year I will do what it takes to get my self esteem back... . by doing estemable acts!

thank you

Hugs 

[janey62]

Letting go though can still be hard!

Yes!  We all had mixed feelings, intense ones, if not, if it was all bad, we would have left right away.  A borderline's need to attach creates an intensely loaded bond with folks wired the right way, the ones attractive to a borderline, and all of that takes a while to untangle and process, although it can result in profound growth.  Motivated by pain once again, the most effective type of motivation usually, has caused me to reevaluate everything, the growth has been painful and rattling, but I'm better off now as a result and in hindsight it was very valuable; the 'experience' with my borderline ex fast-forwarded my own growth, and for that I thank her.

I am so grateful for all of your words of wisdom.  I like this fromheeltoheal because it helps me to see that not all of this was a waste of time, that in fact I've learned more from my experience of this r/s than I could have ever realised was possible in 18 months... .

Thanks

[Lol4fun]

Thank you all! I was feeling down earlier today and reluctantly went out with a friend and actually enjoyed myself and didn't think about the exbf at all! Baby steps. The other great thing is I have reached out for support from my friends & family on FB and it has actually gotten me back in contact with some people who I used to be really close friends with but life, different states and so forth we drifted apart. Granted we follow each other on FB but until recently hadn't talked one on one. And from them I have gotten personal messages telling me how much my friendship means to them and that they are always here for me. They have also reminded me of the individual they have always known and loved who was a bright caring spirit who loved everyone & was there for those I cared about. I needed that reminder. Thank you all so much for your support!

Oh Inside him & ex-wife are not involved in that way haven't been for several years hence part of why they got divorced.