The lying. Let them go or confront. how? I JADED again.

[elemental]

My bf has shown signs of warming back up and calming down. I am pleased to see it.  Then this afternoon I found out that he lied to me about something, attempted to cover it up and now 2+ months later I find out.

So I am not happy about that. Additionally it was a specific breach of trust and a broken agreement over something he was doing in spades in the past that caused immense hurt to me over a year and a half. My presence in the relationship was contingent upon he avoiding doing this action.

Well he did it. And sadly he did it at a time where I was actually having a lot of problems emotionally... severe panic attacks being triggered off daily... from PTSD from what he had done.

So I am looking back and I felt upset enough to go to IM and tell him I know, that it is hurtful, the lie, the attempt to cover it up, that I find it particularly upsetting that at the point he did it, I was already struggling from him doing it before and he was chastising me for being so hurt from it and for being so scared it would happen again!. I told him, I extended trust to you and was trying to face the fear and you were doing it and putting me down as you were actually doing the thing that had hurt me so badly.

Though I tried not to JADE, I wrote about 45 sentences. And the IM counts each sentence as a message. So I am expecting silent treatment and ignoring to be further extended. I am so upset atm, I feel so helpless and frustrated. WHY WHY WHY does he ask me to stay then knowingly pull a dealbreaker that he KNOWS had me pretty much suicidal and that I have been fighting my fears and anxieties over so badly?


Beyond that, would someone please tell me if I should let these things go, say something and how can I say anything about what he did without starting a major conflict. I am to the point that my only response I feel I can give to the guy that is not a kneejerk is my silence and complete absence.

Help please

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[joethemechanic]

Hey Zencat

Sorry to hear he has lied to you. My gf is pulling the same stuff on me right now. She thinks I don't know she is out drinking. And of course she is lying and telling me she is home.


The lies are so hurtful. It's like a total lack of respect.

I sure hope you are ok. Just remember you are not alone

[elemental]

I am sitting alone. That cold wave is about to come down on top of us with -45 F windchill. There are big cedar trees around the house and I can hear the branches blowing around.

In my boyfriend's world, JADEing is the height of sin.  I was actually thinking I am unreasonable and I went back on Skype 3 months ago to read what we were saying about things.

It's bad. He was talking down to me about my reactions to the things he did when he was cheating. I have never really been able to get over it. Part of the reason is the constant harangue by him directed at me about my upset over what he did.

So he refuses to say sorry, he refuses to cut me slack over anxiety or mistrust. It is a huge ugly thing to him that I still get upset or feel afraid. Our whole relationship has become him giving silent treatment, lying, bullying, him insisting my lack of trust is MY problem.

He feels that me being upset about what he did and me ending up in outbursts or getting anxious and having panic attacks and talking to much are hugely worse than the 2 years he spent carrying on an affair with his ex and leaving for a while. All the gaslighting and blame shifting. I feel really angry that he thinks being told he is being a POS is worse than being cheated on for 2 years and all of the horrible ugly things that go along with being cheated on.

The thing he did 2 months ago had to do with that. I told him I can't be in a relationship with him if he does those things. Well he did it, made fun of me at the time for having problems from when he did it before, and now is giving me the silent treatment for getting upset about the most recent round of spending overnight at his ex's... . the woman he cheated on me with for 2 years.

I keep wondering how I got so messed up emotionally that I would send an email calling him filthy names. All we are addressing is how terrible I am to do that and what an abused victim he is. Nothing is being discusssed about all the emotional abuse and blocking and threats and overnights at his ex's that went on and on before I got so upset.

I am sitting here venting, I know. So sorry to anyone who actually wades through it. I am trying to keep myself from lashing out at him again.

I don't feel I can do any better than just walking away right now. I am pretty upset. The worst aspect of this to me is like some people denying there was a Holocaust that killed 20 million Jews. It was horrific enough that it happened, but to deny humanity and the existence of such a thing to the people it actually happened to... . often I feel like BPD and narcs are just like that.

All I can figure is he really doesn't care if I am gone. I don't see how he really can with the way he thinks being told off is so much worse than how it feels to be cheated on, betrayed and gaslighted for years.

I feel really despondant.  :'(

[SweetCharlotte]

It's one thing when partners agree to have an open relationship, are proponents of polyamory (which I think is nonsense), etc. However, in most relationships there's an expectation of fidelity. At the very least, it is a safeguard against STDs. Not to mention the emotional benefits.

If a partner is unfaithful and then is admitted back, it takes a long time for trust to be rebuilt. It is almost never a good idea to take someone back after a betrayal, BPD or not.

He stills expects to be able to flimflam from his ex (who is not consistently an ex) to you and back again. He thinks you are unfair because you have accepted this in the past. That fuels the bullying, insults, and ignoring. It upsets me to see someone in this situation. Start looking out for yourself and you will see that you don't deserve it. It is not a question of not practicing radical acceptance well enough.

[elemental]

He insists he is only going over there to see the children. The trip back is 3 hours, the children cry when he tries to leave, so sometimes he stays overnight for extra time or he is tired.  he says. He feels I should trust him and not be upset about the overnights. His ex is actively trying to get him back. It's really painful to me and it really scares me.

He is impatient with me for it and puts me down. If I get upset from that he starts jerking me around. Walking out, silent treatment, threatening to end things. I can't tell if he is cheating again, if he is being honest, or what. I have been gaslit so much, I end up feeling deer in the headlights.


To my knowledge he has not been there for 3 weeks. They celebrate christmas late, so I expect he will go over in the next few days. In the meantime, he has not come home, here. And I doubt he will be any time soon, especially since I sent him that mail.

I feel very upset now. Maybe I am not thinking clearly. Thanks for your response.

[waverider]

You say it is a boundary or a deal breaker. Yet you are still wondering what to do about it. This means that it is not a firm boundary or deal breaker. Somehow he is aware of this

All I can figure is he really doesn't care if I am gone

He doesn't believe you will be gone.

Is he gambling correctly?

[elemental]

He showed up, gave me a kiss, and explained what happened. If he is telling the truth, then that cleared things up. It seemed very plausible, he was matter of fact about it.

Then he went to play a video game, clearly not interested in talking much more about it ( and I am ok with that for now) and I went to sleep.  He is in a very self contained mood. I don't know that it is silent treatment at this point than more that he is inwardly turned. He seems very tired.

More than anxiety about him, I am worried about my own self. I don't feel my mind is very stable right now.  I am very low.

As far as enforcing the boundry, yes, if I am certain he truely broke it, I will enforce it. Thing is now I am not certain and I feel kind of dumb. Maybe I look like a pushover. At the same time, I will not waste my time on him if he is choosing cheating behaviors. And I can't tell what he is doing over at his ex's because I am not there. It is 3 weeks since he went there, and that instance, he did not stay over.

I guess I redirect myself so I can get better perspective.

[waverider]

Working with boundaries is not always about right or wrong and what is fair, they are there to protect your emotional well being. Feeling suspicious/betrayed/incapable of trust means that you need to do something to allay those feelings you can't just bury them. If these eat you up inside then you need to come up with an arrangement that solves this issue.

"plausible excuses" are often the first attempt to bypass a boundary. Keep an eye out for an accumulation of plausible excuses.

My partner can come up with plausible excuses for anything, even when i know they are lies I am tempted to believe them. It is the frequency that puts them beyond doubt.

"How does this make me feel?" is my benchmark rather than relying on perceived truths.

[elemental]

I saw a lot of "plausible excuses" when he was cheating on me. So many that when I see something now, I am immediately triggering off of it.


I have tried to address the panicking in a number of ways, from meds, to giving myself the boundry of walking off until I calm... I hate the meds (xanax) I have had increasing success with walking off to calm down first.

The one that is breaking my capacity, is the overnights at his ex's.  I literally have not, at times, been able to stay stable while he is there. For anyone here who has been cheated on, think about if your partner was going over and staying overnight at the home of the person they cheated on you with. It's a deal breaker. The mitigating factor is that he has not been able to sort custody, has run out of money for the fight atm, and his ex won't let him see the children unless he goes over there... . and it takes 3 hours to get there blah blah.


It feels like being cheated on, then I put it in context and feel empathy. Still, the pain of it and my anxiety are very hard and I am reacting on that if there is too much of the overnighting. That is, my pain and anxiety increase to the point that I have an outburst at him.

He is impatient with me over it, though appears to be not going over as often and staying over. He skipped 3 weeks of it. Until today. His ex is an orthodox christian, very religious. They practice Christmas on January 7, with all sorts of activity on the eve of that.

So this morning, he got himself up at 5AM, and soon left to go over there. I hate it. I am sitting here right now, doing my best to leave it be. For his children it is Christmas. For his ex it is an opportunity to play happy family, be all giddy, they are "back together" etc.   

I am trying to be empathetic to his perspective: he hates going over, he wants to see his kids,  his dad died and was buried on this date years ago, his former wedding anniversary is on the 9th and the ex is bouncing around like a rubber monkey and I am sitting at home hating what he is doing.

So I am asking myself more than anything, is will there be a shift in the coming months and years about how this is being handled? Probably. And I honestly doubt when the ex comes home from midnight mass, ( he stays with the kids) that he will do more than want to sleep and just get through tomorrow there. His ex won't make it easy to keep peace today and tomorrow. 

Then my fears kick in   And I don't know if there is anything to say to him over it. He knows how I feel and why.

I am thinking about my goals here: my main one is not to JADE anymore. Secondly, I need some sort of boundry in place about the overnights. One that gives him a repercussion, and has to do with protecting my feelings enough that I am not going into a massive panic attack.

He is still acting very distant to me. It's getting to me... I feel really hurt by it and you are right, waverider about the feelings of unfairness. It feels unfair and I end up feeling expendable.  I told him many times that these things leave me feeling expendable, and he insists I am not. So why am I getting punished for an argument we had nearly a month ago, still?

[SweetCharlotte]

It's 3 hours away.

Isn't there a motel in the area?

In order to trust him again, I would have to have proof that he stayed overnight at a motel. (However, I personally would never trust someone who has cheated on me before; I tried it in another r/s and it was a mistake.)

[elemental]

We live in a really big city. His ex lives caddycorner. He has to travel via buses and trains to get there. He claims he is acting in a common sense way. He knows he is not going to cheat. (he says, irregardless of what I say) so he doesn't have a problem staying.

I asked about hotels. By the time he left and found a hotel, an hour plus would pass, and he has to pay for the hotel room. A waste of money since he is not cheating and there fore has nothing to prove.

At best, he gets extra times with the kids, allows the ex wife to believe they are getting back together, gets himself stressed and mad, and leaves me here at home freaking out and in pain. He is using the argument 3 weeks ago as an excuse to put aside my feelings in favor of doing what he feels he "should" do, which is be there for the children.

I know how his brain works. He is hopeful I will sit silent, not throw a fit and mess up Christmas for the kids, or make things more stressful on him. And if he is telling the truth... . his intentions are with me and his ex can assume and think whatever she wants.  He doesn't bother responding to her antics and assumptions. According to him, he is unresponsive to any attempts she makes to engage him sexually/romantically. He just ignores her and acts like she never said anything or tried anything on him.

I, personally, think its a crock of bull. But. He has had this momentum going and obviously me getting in the way of it right now is going to create another big conflict at a bad time.  I am not wanting it.

So right now I am sitting here trying to distract myself. I feel sad, abandoned, and angry and helpless. I am preventing myself from writing to him and JADEing about why he shouldn't be there, about bad boundries, about his committement to me.

I am hopeful once this "special" event of Christmas is over, he will go back to avoiding the ex and staying overnight there. Over the last 2 years he has s-l-o-w-l-y been extricating himself from those overnights. It seems to be a long trend. Too slow for me, though 


Any advice on managing my own self while this is happening is welcome!

[highland dr]

I think you need a sabbatical from him so that you can focus on finding yourself.  You have to be careful with the BPD not to lose yourself.  Go back and evaluate your core values, ones you cannot compromise without losing you.  Then ask yourself, can I survive in this relationship?  Life is worth living.  There are many bumps in the road.  Find those happy places in your life, warm memories.  That will take you back to your core values.  You have come to the right place.  Sending prayers your way.

[elemental]

I can't really go on a sabbatical. He lives here. Except when he is mad and going to his mom's. Which is where he has been, with the exception of last night, for the last 3 weeks.

Now he is over at his ex's. I don't even know if he is coming back tomorrow or staying over again. He denies me even the courtesy of that communication. I am getting very hurt and angry and under that condition there is a significant risk of me confronting him on the crappy behavior. Which is how I ended up here. I try to address the behavior, he becomes a complete dick to me, I get upset, he gets upset putting me down, and eventually it all implodes.

I can make plans to simply go quiet. He may go back to his mothers, he may come back home and stay mostly quiet himself.

I am having a struggle with resentment and hurt.  I am in a relationship, but abandoned on a regular basis. I tried to tell him that yesterday, but mostly all he did was kiss me and tell me I am just causing drama over nothing.

Is is possible to invalidate me any worse after being cheated on? I am a troublemaker and ignored because I am reacting to betrayal?  Well like I saw earlier. It is not fair.

Someone please explain to me how anyone can love you and treat you that way.

[SweetCharlotte]

I can't really go on a sabbatical. He lives here.

You do have a choice. If it's his place, you can move out.

As it is, you are in a passive state, waiting for him to come home or not. I agree with Highland that you need a sabbatical. If his name is on the lease or the deed, you would need to move out to establish your autonomy. It costs money but look at what this arrangement is costing you. It's not a bargain.

[elemental]

Yes, I am waiting for him to come home. I know he will. I wanted to use the tools I am learning here and see if it has a different result.

I decided probably I need to distract myself instead of sitting around worrying about what he is doing.

[elemental]

He came back late last night and said he would not be celebrating Christmas with them. He has just reached a point where he simply can't make himself do this sort of thing.  I hope it sticks!

He seems a little embarressed, but is otherwise back to being calm and the person he usually is when things are not upset. 

This is my chance to use my new skills   Thank you to everyone who has been supporting me.