How do you get to the point where you actually leave?

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've spent a lot of time in the undecided (stay or go) board. Im mind is made up but the action to leave has not happend. My questions is how can I get to the point where I put forth the actions. She uses guilt and I fall for it. Yet the more she does it the more my mind is made up to go... . Yet the body stays and the mind takes the punshment.

[Cipher13]

I've spent a lot of time in the undecided (stay or go) board. Im mind is made up but the action to leave has not happend. My questions is how can I get to the point where I put forth the actions. She uses guilt and I fall for it. Yet the more she does it the more my mind is made up to go... . Yet the body stays and the mind takes the punshment.

[Perfidy]

When the pain of staying is greater than the pain of leaving. Too bad it has to be pain.

[phantom17]

Perfidy pretty much summed it up. I was in your shoes for nearly 1.5 years of a 3 year relationship.

It's extremely hard to do.

In my case, I began checking out emotionally at the 1.5-2 yr stage. It neither helped nor hurt as her behavior stayed the same, it's just that I tried my best not to fall into her "episodes".

Like you towards the very end, I was looking for a way out, and didn't know how I was going to do it.

Then she found a potential "replacement", I called her on it... . and POOF, all of a sudden we're done (via text msg) and they're together within a few days announcing it on facebook, etc.  I had a feeling this is how it would end (her finding someone else and letting me go), because I didn't have the balls to stick to my guns.

That isn't the entire story, but what I will tell you is that if I had it to do over again, I would not wait for her to first find a replacement. Once my mind was made up, I'd wait for the next outburst and walk.

And then dig my heels in.

I tried this once, and My God, if you ever want to see a stalker... . break up with a BPD and give them the silent treatment.

I ended up going back because of this... . crying, sobbing, "if you don't understand me, then no one will", etc.

We broke up 6 months ago. She married my replacement 2 days ago. 

But point being, that's how I would handle that particular relationship if I had it to do over. Going forward, I guarantee you'll never let it reach the point your in now.


I know this probably doesn't help a lot, but I hope it helps a little.

[Mazda]

He broke up with me and I was forced to leave (recycled once although denied later and push/pull constantly to keep me available to feed his ego).  Like an idiot I begged him to work it out with me.  He married my replacement without even telling me, I found out through a third party, despite having numerous opportunities.  He admitted he didn't tell me because he knew I would contact his replacement.  Later denied and replaced with he didn't want to hurt me and was concerned about my reaction (HAH!)  He had the audacity to hide all this from me and ask me if I still wanted to get back together with him. 

Detach and leave, because this pain is extremely raw.  On the plus side it has opened my eyes to just how vile and low he could sink.  Would I still help him if his replacement asked me?  Do I still care for him as a person who suffers? Yes.  Because I am a good person.  But I will not involve my feelings.

Look at the facts, list all the awful things and ways you were violated and keep reading that list.  Replace any positive memory or thought immediately with one from this list.  Convince yourself to leave, and then burn whatever you can.  I am not kidding.  I watched his photo burn and thought "get out of my life and I disallow you from causing me any more pain".

[phantom17]

Perfidy pretty much summed it up. I was in your shoes for nearly 1.5 years of a 3 year relationship.

It's extremely hard to do.

In my case, I began checking out emotionally at the 1.5-2 yr stage. It neither helped nor hurt as her behavior stayed the same, it's just that I tried my best not to fall into her "episodes".

Like you towards the very end, I was looking for a way out, and didn't know how I was going to do it.

Then she found a potential "replacement", I called her on it... . and POOF, all of a sudden we're done (via text msg) and they're together within a few days announcing it on facebook, etc.  I had a feeling this is how it would end (her finding someone else and letting me go), because I didn't have the balls to stick to my guns.

That isn't the entire story, but what I will tell you is that if I had it to do over again, I would not wait for her to first find a replacement. Once my mind was made up, I'd wait for the next outburst and walk.

And then dig my heels in.

I tried this once, and My God, if you ever want to see a stalker... . break up with a BPD and give them the silent treatment.

I ended up going back because of this... . crying, sobbing, "if you don't understand me, then no one will", etc.

We broke up 6 months ago. She married my replacement 2 days ago. 

But point being, that's how I would handle that particular relationship if I had it to do over. Going forward, I guarantee you'll never let it reach the point your in now.


I know this probably doesn't help a lot, but I hope it helps a little.

Also, for the record, I believe I took the chicken ___ way out, and regret it. Made me feel pretty weak minded. And figure it will until I can prove myself wrong going forward in a new relationship.

Know this... . I felt there were only 3 options of getting out:

1. Break up with her after an episode: Because it would be justified by her actions. Then dig my heels in and not give it. I failed at my only attempt.

2. Just break up with her in a heart to heart conversation because it wasn't working: Didn't have the nerve to do this

3. Hang in until she found someone else: Success. But it still hurt, even though I wanted out badly. Plus it's a year or so of my life I'll never get back.

So keep in mind, if you've made the decision in your heart that you want out, then every day you stay with this person is a day you will never get back.

[love4meNOTu]

I was afraid of him. I called the sheriff.

That was it.

L

[phantom17]

Look at the facts, list all the awful things and ways you were violated and keep reading that list.  Replace any positive memory or thought immediately with one from this list.  Convince yourself to leave, and then burn whatever you can.  I am not kidding. 

This x100

After my gf dumped me, I made a list simply to take to a therapist to make sure I wasn't going crazy.

Let me tell you, if I ever have any doubts or feel weak for her, all I have to do is read 1/4 of the list, and the feeling is gone in an instant.

I'd suggest fresh off a break up, read the list every day for a while as a reminder of what you're purging from your life.

[fromheeltoheal]

Try asking yourself the right questions, really asking them and coming up with 100% honest answers; like your life is literally on the line, which at the extreme, it is.

Do you trust her?

Does she treat you with respect?

Does she bring you up or bring you down?

Is the relationship getting better or worse?

Are you able to have open, honest conversations with her, express your vulnerability, have your views respected in a supportive environment, and work towards resolution of problems?

Is she faithful to you?

Does she tell you the truth or does she lie?

Is this relationship going to work long term?

You need to look inside with utmost honesty for answers; involving her in them will just be another ride on the crazytrain.  You probably know the answers already, then it's time to make a real decision and act on it.  Take care of you!

[coffees86]

I guess you will leave when you are in some self respect. The thing is, she told you probably she doesn't want you to leave, so you are worried to hurt her. More than this hurts you.

When two people care for eachother they gain... . not drain. In my opinion I only gave and she got. Then it is enough. Notice that it's not you who she wants but just justification.

[charred]

Took a lot to leave... I had pined for her for over 20 years... thought if only I had been married to her my life would have been so much better. Then she came back in to my life and proved to me that I truly had been mistaken about everything all those years. Our first go round... didn't know she was disordered... and was devastated when she dumped me ... . as we had been seriously talking marriage... . she had asked me to marry her... and I would have, but wanted to finish my degree ( a few months off was all)... so she dumped me and took up with a neighbor ... and hung all over him in eyesight... I was suicidal/homicidal... graduated and moved 1500 miles away to be clear of her. Years later... she contacted me on FB and I felt nothing... she pleaded with me to talk to her... I did, and hearing her voice brought 100% of the feelings back... very confusing.

Anyway... we got together... prompting me to divorce my wife and hurt my daughter... not long after, hell began. Recycled 7-8 times... each time was shorter... with her going from great to me being on egg shells, to her being a raving abusive monster. Each thing she was upset about had a grain of truth that kept me off-balance... she was upset at me coddling my exwife (who i had been married to for 22 yrs)... and wanted me to be as brutally cold toward her as my pwBPD was to her ex-husbands and boyfriends.   Each thing she would rant on I could kind of see being upsetting, but her view had always been black/white... no grey, and she claimed that I wanted that absolute view after growing up around everything is grey inadequate parents.

So... what got me to the point of leaving... she raged at me 7 hrs straight one time... and I realized that nothing and no one was worth being abused to be with. I had caught her in blatant lies, she would never accept blame or responsibility for anything she did... and it became clear that life with her would be hell. I gave it all I had in me... and then began questioning my premises... like the one that she was my dream girl and was morally great/good/decent at all... basically, when I would jump through hoops for her... she was disinterested and treated me like crap... worse and worse... when I was through giving her the benefit of the doubt (at my expense)... and holding her up to the standard of things she said being proven true or I would not believe them... . she became so defensive it was impossible to see her as anything but a disordered compulsive liar. I was disgusted with myself for being with her, for giving up a much better r/s to be with her... and with her for the two timing and lies.

The hardest thing was accepting that I had rationalized for her, had lookup up to her unquestioningly like a parent... and had been manipulated like a brainless chump. When I fully accepted she was disordered, anything she said was suspect, no amount of fixing on my part could make a r/s with her work... and my future would be one of care taking for a venomous unappreciative shrew... . I was able end it and stick to it.

Have been NC for about 18 months now... and feel prouder than any drunk off the bottle... it took accepting some harsh truths to do it. So long as you are wrapped up in your ego defenses, making excuses for them treating you like crap... you will stay stuck in their vortex... but open your eyes... accept reality and you can set yourself free.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Cipher13, The sad fact is that a lot of us Nons probably stay much longer than is healthy, due to our own low self-esteem and codependency/caretaking issues.  At some juncture, in my view, you reach a tipping point when you realize that, despite all your heroic and noble efforts to make the relationship work, things are going to continue to get worse.  It then becomes a question of whether you are going to let yourself self-destruct, and some of us (i.e., me) came pretty close to drowning in the BPD tidal wave.  It takes a lot of effort to make the break, because one is usually so depleted from the BPD drama that, when the time comes to move on, there's no gas left in the tank, so-to-speak, which is why you often have to rely on others to walk with you through the ring of fire.  Lucky Jim

[Tincup]

I agree with Lucky Jim.  I know I stayed a lot longer than I should, and in fact would still be with her if SHE didn't break up with me over text message.  I knew the relationship wasn't going to work long term.  I am thankful she broke up because the stress and anxiety over knowing I was one moment away from the silent treatment or some passive aggressive treatment was exhausting.  I can remember the peace and stability I felt in my marriage to a non-BPD women.  I never felt that way with my exBPDgf.  The good times were amazing (and I didn't care about stability) and the bad times were always lurking. 

[myself]

I wanted, worked for, and offered a relationship where we didn't even need to question if it was good or bad. When I knew for sure we didn't have that, I got out. It had to run its own course. I wasn't ready until I was ready. Whatever compelled her to resist it so fiercely forced its way between us and we'll never be together again. It was one of the most important decisions I've ever made. It's also been a huge relief. Detachment hurts and heals at the same time.

[nevaeh]

Know this... . I felt there were only 3 options of getting out:

1. Break up with her after an episode: Because it would be justified by her actions. Then dig my heels in and not give it. I failed at my only attempt.

2. Just break up with her in a heart to heart conversation because it wasn't working: Didn't have the nerve to do this

3. Hang in until she found someone else: Success. But it still hurt, even though I wanted out badly. Plus it's a year or so of my life I'll never get back.

So keep in mind, if you've made the decision in your heart that you want out, then every day you stay with this person is a day you will never get back.

I am within a few weeks of leaving uBPDh after 18 year marriage (24 years together - started dating when I was 19 and he was 18. 

What Phantom says is spot for me as well.  I have had hundreds of "episodes" that I could have just put my foot down and been done.  BUT... . even though you think it might "make more sense" to the pwBPD, it seems as thought they are always able to suck you back in.  Believe me, I have threatened divorce so many times I lost count.  I have told him I hate him and that I don't want to be with him anymore, but I have ZERO credibility because I always let him back in to my heart because I thought his promises to be better were real and that he could actually change for me (and us).  Heck, now when I say I want a divorce he doesn't even bring it up later or ask me if I'm OK.  It's like I'm saying I think I'll go eat a sandwich or it's raining outside.  Yet... . here I sit in the eleventh hour and there is still a big part of me just waiting for the next big blow up so I can just tell him I'm done and feel like I have a "reason" or "excuse" to finally leave.  As if the 500 other times he's raged or been disrespectful or mean aren't reason enough... .

Option 2 is to put on my big girl panties, sit down with him, and have a REAL adult conversation about the fact that I want a divorce and "try" to at least make him understand.  Why is that important to me?  Because despite the fact that I am emotionally numb, I don't want to hurt him.  If I'm really honest with myself, I also don't like conflict and I know that if I try to have this conversation he is going to have a melt down and I will have a hard time emotionally sticking to my guns and following through.  When he is being good, he is decent to be around.  I actually DO like him sometimes.  He can still make me smile and I'm not always a nervous wreck around him.  He's really good at turning those things on when I try to have a serious conversation about splitting up.  Bottom line is that I AM TERRIFIED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION!  I am scared to face this elephant in the room.  But I realize this is ON ME.  I have to get over that for my own good!

Option 3 - My H has found others "several" times during our marriage.  Cyber affairs, internet porn, inappropriate texting with various female "friends", and worst was when I caught him in a very long intimate, physical, and emotional affair with another woman while he was deployed to Iraq with the Air Force.  Sadly, he begged me to not leave him each time I found out about his wanderings... . and I was stupid and listened to him, believing that he really only loved me and that again, I would somehow be able to make him change.  I always had this completely irrational fear that he would be able to make a relationship with one of these women actually "work" and then I would know for sure that there was something really just wrong with me, as I had already learned from being around him.  I didn't want to feel like there was something wrong with me.   So here I sit, still married to him, because of my own darn insecurities!

I am moving (quickly) toward the realization that I have to be confident enough with myself to be able to stand up to him and tell him that a divorce is what I want for ME.  I know it will be hard for him and I can apologize up and down and back and forth for the fact that it will be hard for him, but there is NO OTHER OPTION FOR ME.

[seeking balance]

Eventually, you are done - I remember, wondering for a very long time if I was done and someone telling me that I will know when I was really done... . and I did.

I did want to change my mind after I was "done,done" and I definitely bargained with the grief of "maybe" not - but deep in my gut a line was hit and I knew it had to be done... . for us both.

[Tolou]

I was the one who left, it came with suicide attempts (x2) threats x many, the guilt is still with me. Doubt that I did what was best for both of us, especially me, no more doubts.  I see that unfortunately I needed to meet this person to look into the mirror and begin to grow myself, in a different way that I hope she will grow.  I just won't know because I never want to witness another suicide attempt, or be at the end of one of those messages where her life is on the line, nothing that is in my control.  I had to ask myself, "what would my life be like without this person" after recieving some good feedback from person I confided.  I realized that at the very least, all the projection, despair, and desperation that had entered me, would no longer have a doorway.

so ask yourself, "why are you staying"? Do you truley believe this story will have a happy ending? It is something you have to decide on your own, what usually helps is moving towards a healthier lifestyle.  Being in this type of relationship, if the person is an actual BPD which is usually comorbid with other things, can be very damaging... . Especially when you a part of this persons triggers.

[Surnia]

For me it was the constant high stress level, anxiety increasing on my way home from work. On day I realized: I fear coming home! Daily.  :'(

And the work with a great T. My guess without her I would have tried to survive much longer in a very unhealthy place.

[Cipher13]

Wow lots of good advice and I feel everyones pain and wish everyone a healthy success to 2014. I do want to address acouple items and answer questiosn posted here and ask a few more from them.

Do you trust her?Yes she has never lied to me. But if I leave I do not trust her to not make a huge scene or sabbatage my job or my livleyhood durning a break up.

Does she treat you with respect?75% no. Sometimes 90% no.

Does she bring you up or bring you down? There are highs like a pedistal but hey are superfiscial. Mostly I a am brought down

Is the relationship getting better or worse? Worse no matter what I have done to work to improve it she can find something that I am doing that is destroying it. Like finishing the dishes insted of stopping when she asks me to.  Silly but true.

Are you able to have open, honest conversations with her, express your vulnerability, have your views respected in a supportive environment, and work towards resolution of problems?I shudder to ever ask a question. Any question. I fear being open as she coould and would shut me down and tell me I am shelfish.

Is she faithful to you? She is. A lot of people have posted that they were "replaced". True that woudl make it easier and to be honest it would hurt but in a way be a lot easier to deal with.

Does she tell you the truth or does she lie?She has never lied. She is an open honest and bluntly truthful book. I seem to have to hid that I only spent $35 on gas instead of $40 so I can have a few dollars to buy a lunch once in a great while.

Is this relationship going to work long term?I can not see it ever getting better. I have not wanted kids once i realized there was an issue. for the forst 5 for the 12 years I figured it was me. Then especailly the last 3 I knew  what ever I had done isn't really the issue but it is the glue she uses to hold on to all the hate and nager. No rational person usually holds on to the past that efoortlessly to be used as a reminded that I am not a perfect human being.


With all that being said I would gladdly leave all that I own. (Which isn't much its mostly hers) II have not seen my family in years due to this relationship. I admit I could and need to do something to change it. My family would welcome me back with open arms and have been praying  for that to hapen.  I do to.

[Cipher13]

How do I take this? Its kind of what I want o push fo rbut int he past when I tried it blew up in my face.  Here is a line from her email a few mins ago.   "If we stay together will we ever be happy with each other?"

Last time I gently pushed on this it back fired. I think its a trap.

[fromheeltoheal]

How do I take this? Its kind of what I want o push fo rbut int he past when I tried it blew up in my face.  Here is a line from her email a few mins ago.   "If we stay together will we ever be happy with each other?"

Last time I gently pushed on this it back fired. I think its a trap.

Implicit in that question is the statement that you aren't happy with each other now.  Sure, relationships take work, but if there isn't an underlying compatibility, a centering, no amount of work will get you there.  A healthy relationship is one in which both partners don't need to work at trying to be someone they're not; you can both be who you are in an environment of trust, respect, and mutual admiration and support.  If that's not there now it never will be.

[seeking balance]

How do I take this? Its kind of what I want o push fo rbut int he past when I tried it blew up in my face.  Here is a line from her email a few mins ago.   "If we stay together will we ever be happy with each other?"

Last time I gently pushed on this it back fired. I think its a trap.

This is a staying board question really, because the communication tools are needed.  Leaving board doesn't tend to focus on these tools as much.

SET - If you respond.

To me, there is a no win on this question and one better left unanswered.

When you are done, you will just be done - until then, I suggest maybe the undecided board tools to the right because it talks about picking a path, that exercise might help.

For more context, I stayed a lot longer than I should have, but I did what I had to do for my own values.  It was only when I could not do this any longer and that I realized the facts of the disorder meant my ex was done and pushing me to leave (part of the disorder too) that I let go for us both.

Only you will know if you are done - and you really will know when a wall is hit. 

Take good care of you.

[Lucky Jim]

A healthy relationship is one in which both partners don't need to work at trying to be someone they're not; you can both be who you are in an environment of trust, respect, and mutual admiration and support.

Well said, fromHtoH.

Agree with you SB: when you hit the wall, you know it.

Take care and continue to listen to your gut feelings, Cipher13.

Lucky Him