Do they ever really get better?

[Free2Bee]

I'm writing to seek some 'down the road' feedback from those of you who have chosen to stay with your BPD partners... .

(I'm in the process of making the decision whether or not to stay with my uBPD partner. We've been together for only three months, no marriage, no kids and we're NC at the moment, so I have a window of time to make this decision).

Here's my question:

Does it ever get better?

With therapy?

With any of the various communication trainings or DBT?

If your partner went into 'remission' from BPD, how long did it last?

Has anyone on this board witnessed a 'cure' of the disorder?

I was flipping through a book more targeted towards people *with* BPD and it was overwhelming optimistic. The authors suggested that BPD is 'curable' ("BPD actually has a very good prognosis", asserted that BPD is treatable ("People with BPD can make incredible progress in relatively short periods of time... . ". The authors suggested that lives could be turned around in about a year... .

Are these views unreasonably rosy or are they real?

Thank you in advance for your feedback and stories.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[sunshine40]

The answers to all your questions are "well, it depends... . "

-Do they know that they are dealing with BPD?

-Do they have  the willingness and tools to change?

- Are they seeking help (NOT through you... you cannot be their therapist)?

-Are they taking meds that help them and are willing to do whatever it takes?

These are all choices that your SO has to make.

I think the best piece of advice  can give you is that you cannot control what your SO does. So do not hope that you can change this person.

My bph of 20+ years goes into a "remission" every once in a while for a period of two weeks to a few months, and then something happens... yadda yadda yadda (I know, I yadda'd the best part) and we're back to square one and I an licking wounds and trying to recover.

It has been 20+ years with both the most awesome partner in the world and a monster. The monster is sometimes a subdued depressed man and not raging, but still not happy. And the monster is here more often than the awesome guy.

You are only in it for three months with no real commitment and no kids. Think VERY hard before you decide to have a VERY difficult life. It will be excrutiatingly painful at times.

Those books you are speaking of are very helpful and hopeful, but I would equate  being cured to miracle diets where people lose a lot of weight on some miracle diet that works really well for a time... . and you don't see the pictures of the weight that gets put back on  the next year.

I do hope that a full remission is entirely possible, but it will never happen without  the pwBPD taking action to change. It is a LONG HARD ROAD.

Hope this helps.

[Wanna Move On]

Kai, it depends on what you mean by "better."

Yes, there IS evidence that various therapies can "improve" the harshest and most extreme statistically objective BPD behaviors -- reducing completed suicides, reducing suicide/parasuicide attempts, reducing in-patient psych ER hospitalizations, mitigating the lowest of low-functioning behaviors, etc. 

But if you mean "better" -- as in wondering if BPDs become better relational partners in all relevant categories of subjective interpersonal interaction (i.e., love, empathy, intimacy, trust, fidelity, emotional nurturance, stability, etc.) then the answer is overwhelmingly "no!"

Getting "better" is all a matter of definition, all a matter of context. It all depends on what YOU are looking or hoping for.

[PacifistMom]

I would have to agree with sunshine40 that it's like the pendulum effect of extreme diets. Especially if they won't acknowledge a serious disorder. In my 11 year relationship, whenever it seems like there's been a huge improvement, seems like there is a worse relapse.

It is very very very hard and I've remained optimistic for all this time, but the only constant has been ... .

When he is good, he is very very good

And when he is bad, he is horrid.

[hergestridge]

Here's from someone who has been with a BPD girl for 20 years now:

"Better" doesn't happen naturally over time. It's all to do with the environment. Minimize the preassures, the stressful changes and make her have contact with a few select people regularly and her BPD is actually better. Better but not good.

My wife insisted on living a "normal life" (starting a family etc), which made her far worse.

The best conditions are if your BPD partner has self-perception enough not to take on major challenges in life and to lead a "silent" life that suits the BPD condition. But chances are that those who have that kind of self-knowledge also chose to live alone in order not to damage their partners.

[waverider]

Better can mean, as in my case the RS is better and our interactions and lack of conflict is greatly improved. My pwBPD thought processes are the same though the extreme consequences are not there. A result of me working on me and how I interact, we are a "team" gain. Without Therapy, hasn't the commitment to attend, though accepts diag.

Treatment can create symptom free. It could be argued as to whether this is cutred of self managed, but the result is the same. Problem of course that the stats are based on those who are diag/accept it/turn up for treatment/stick it out. The bulk of pwBPD dont get anywhere along that path.

Members of this forum who have experienced what you may call BPD free, no longer have a need to be here so are rarely represented. So it can't seemed weighted by those in dire straights,.

A lot of what you call success is dependent on how much you are capable of having maybe a happy yet still dysfunctional RS. Dysfunctional doesn't always mean bad, it just functions in an abnormal way. Probably Disabled RS is a better term

[SweetCharlotte]

Does it ever get better?

With therapy?

With any of the various communication trainings or DBT?

If your partner went into 'remission' from BPD, how long did it last?

Has anyone on this board witnessed a 'cure' of the disorder?

Thank you in advance for your feedback and stories.

My H is undiagnosed and does not see a T, but he has many other medical issues that keep him occupied with appointments. I do see a T.

He has not had a major episode of BPD behavior in four months. We only had a few ripples from holiday anxieties. When he is like this, he's more like someone with very limited PTSD. I do feel that the r/s gets better, that I'm becoming more able to be part of the team managing his fluctuations and he trusts me more as time goes by.

[Free2Bee]

Thanks, everyone, for your honest feedback and stories. This is one of the toughest things I've ever faced - the support I've found here has been a saving grace. For now, I've made the decision to maintain NC to give myself space to think and heal. Best to all of you... .

Kai

[waverider]

I do believe that they certainly wont improve if the non partners doesn't change themselves first

[Free2Bee]

I couldn't agree more, Waverider. From what I've read on these boards, the first step has to be with me. I don't know what will happen with me and my SO in the future. The only thing I can change right now if my own situation and reactions. I'm not ruling out a possible reconciliation far in the future, but for now, I know that I need to heal and work out my own 50% in this relationship. If she did the same, we both had some therapy, who knows... . my heart wants to believe that anything is possible, but for now, I'm viewing this as a Big Life Lesson... .

[Surrender]

Here's from someone who has been with a BPD girl for 20 years now:

"Better" doesn't happen naturally over time. It's all to do with the environment. Minimize the preassures, the stressful changes and make her have contact with a few select people regularly and her BPD is actually better. Better but not good.

My wife insisted on living a "normal life" (starting a family etc), which made her far worse.

The best conditions are if your BPD partner has self-perception enough not to take on major challenges in life and to lead a "silent" life that suits the BPD condition. But chances are that those who have that kind of self-knowledge also chose to live alone in order not to damage their partners.

I read this and wanted to cry because my UBPD was doing before I came along. He lived his life without getting close to anyone, no relationships but trying to minimize his destructive behaviors by exiling himself for the most part. Occasionally he would seek a one night stand with a friend or something but otherwise he has lived a life avoiding intimacy and any kind of commitment. I somehow tore his life upside down when I entered his world, and now he doesn't want to be without me but at the same time is in agony being with me. I have become his normal base line and he mine. Now we are facing the reality of his illness and he no longer denies it but rather admits it full on. Our last conversation had him crying pleading with me that he is very ill and doesn't know if he can change it or make it better.

He said he wants me in his life and he wants to marry me but he doesn't want all the crap and hardship. He told me that I am his rock but at the same time I am the very thing that undoes him. So there we were both crying and him willing to get help. He is in his mid 30's so I don't even know the statistics for someone with BPD starting therapy in their mid thirties with success for a relationship no matter how much they love their partner?

I don't know what to do?

[PeppermintTea]

He is in his mid 30's so I don't even know the statistics for someone with BPD starting therapy in their mid thirties with success for a relationship no matter how much they love their partner?

I don't know what to do?

My husband is 42 and started therapy last year. He has made some really significant improvement over the last few months (I posted a thread about it about a week ago). So I don't know the stats either but experience tells me that positive change towards a successful relationship is possible.

Having said that it's not all plain sailing - this weekend my H has been at melt down city (but nowhere near as badly behaved as he has been in the past). I'm just giving him space to use his tools to work it out for himself but feeling a little sad, this will always be in our lives together however infrequent or short the periods are - there is no getting away from it. Accepting it and managing it seems to be the key.

When he's doing well our lives are great and we walk together as a team - when he isn't doing so well my life is still great and I just have to wait for him to catch up so we can walk together again.

Best wishes,

PT

[Surrender]

He is in his mid 30's so I don't even know the statistics for someone with BPD starting therapy in their mid thirties with success for a relationship no matter how much they love their partner?

I don't know what to do?

My husband is 42 and started therapy last year. He has made some really significant improvement over the last few months (I posted a thread about it about a week ago). So I don't know the stats either but experience tells me that positive change towards a successful relationship is possible.

Having said that it's not all plain sailing - this weekend my H has been at melt down city (but nowhere near as badly behaved as he has been in the past). I'm just giving him space to use his tools to work it out for himself but feeling a little sad, this will always be in our lives together however infrequent or short the periods are - there is no getting away from it. Accepting it and managing it seems to be the key.

When he's doing well our lives are great and we walk together as a team - when he isn't doing so well my life is still great and I just have to wait for him to catch up so we can walk together again.

Best wishes,

PT

I love the way you put that PeppermintTea because it gives me hope. I think I have to learn just to let go when he is going through his episodes and then come back to him once he becomes more regulated. I'm learning a lot but the fact that he is 100% admitting his illness and has sought a professional diagnosis is huge. He is now beginning treatment.

It is so true that when they are stable they are the most wonderful partners. In fact I've never been loved the way he loves me. The level of devotion and union is almost surreal and that is what makes it almost impossible to walk away from even though when the monster comes out it is like the devil himself. At first I took this personally but now I am seeing that all along he tried warning me and trying to tell me what he needed from me when he was suffering his episodes.

It is truly polar opposite world's but I've never been closer to anyone in my life than I am with him so I don't want to let that go. Don't want to let him go but I know if I see that I'm suffering too much should he not want to do the hard work and be dedicated to living that work as a lifestyle I will have to reconsider for my own sanity and health.

So far he wants to do everything in his power but sometimes he is under this illusion that we can have a healthy relationship. I guess I wonder if that is possible because from what I am reading we can have a relationship that is as healthy as it can be considering the amount of managing that needs to be implemented daily and for life.

[waverider]

pwBPD have had lifetime of getting others to do things for them (putting them in the rescuer mode). So to be left to work through their "own stuff", is not natural for them, and it is a habit we have got out of. Learning to pull out and leaving them to it is important for both them and us.

[Chosen]

Better can mean, as in my case the RS is better and our interactions and lack of conflict is greatly improved. My pwBPD thought processes are the same though the extreme consequences are not there. A result of me working on me and how I interact, we are a "team" gain.

I have a similar "outcome" with waverider.  My pwBPD hasn't been diagnosed as well, so no, he doesn't think he has a problem, and is definitely not looking for/ accepting therapy.

But the change began with me.  I read all the Lessons and practised hard, I refused to be a victim and I adapted my communication pattern so that I don't trigger him as much (note: it's not walking on eggshells, it's saying the same things in a different way, like using SET).

Like waverider, my pwBPD still thinks in emotional ways and he has the tendency to go extreme (a small comment from somebody = this person hates me/ is prejudiced against me), but he rarely reacts in an explosive way anymore. 

When I first came here, I didn't believe things would be better.  Then I worked on myself for about a year and things slowly improved.  So yes, if you're willing to put in extra effort, things can improve (but you can't change your pwBPD/ the way they think).  However, it has to start with you.  Good luck.

[nanc]

I am so glad I found this topic! Before yesterday I was really undecided whether to end the relationship or not. After talking to a family member who happens to be a T aswell I decided to give this relationship another go. And after reading all the messages here I am convinced I made the right decision. There is hope after all. My pwBPD is already in therapy for almost a year and he is making progress. Very little, but there is progress! The next step for me is to start my own change. And after reading some of the stories here it gave me extra strength to take the first step. Keeping my fingers crossed that this will be the first step in some positive progress.

For the question if the pwBPD can get better? I have to agree with the people saying it depends. My pwBPD is working really hard and he is making progress. But it is very little and the rages are still there. In my opinion it is a two-way street. He is working hard in dealing with his emotions, so now it is my turn. The last 6 months was hell because I did not change enough. I did not take time for myself and did not take care of myself. The result was the inability to deal with his emotions and not being able to not take it personally. To be honest, I have no idea if I will ever be able to deal with all this. But have to start somewhere. He is all worth it. Fact is that he is changing. The future will tell us how far we can come. And if he can get better. At least a bit better then before.