N/BPDx is not paying child support...

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

What happens when they don't pay child support/alimony?

N/BPDxh is 8 days late. For the past 3 years or so, I haven't insisted on him paying on the 1st of the month, the checks usually arrive by the 7th at the latest. It is the 8th and there is no check. I think N/BPDx is choosing not to pay because he knows I am dating someone.

What is the best way to handle this?

[livednlearned]

What happens when they don't pay child support/alimony?

N/BPDxh is 8 days late. For the past 3 years or so, I haven't insisted on him paying on the 1st of the month, the checks usually arrive by the 7th at the latest. It is the 8th and there is no check. I think N/BPDx is choosing not to pay because he knows I am dating someone.

What is the best way to handle this?

[Waddams]

In my jurisdiction you have to wait until they are 30 days late before you can file anything with the courts for enforcement or contempt.

Perhaps a bit of research into how you go about enforcement?  Here, you can sign up with the local DFACs office division of Child Support Enforcement, and while slow, they'll eventually get around to enforcement, court filings, etc.  Saves people the headache of constantly doing it themselves.  They can also coordinate with DMV and have licenses suspended, and other actions as well, I believe that make it uncomfortable for people that don't pay their support.  They're not perfect, but they help. 

And of course, here as well you can file contempt civil cases for non-payment, as well as file criminal abandonment charges.  Civil filings go to the court that issued the orders.  Criminal go to the jurisdiction where the kids currently live.  Not always the same court after a few years and parents moving, so verifying proper venue is important!

Hopefully the check is just late and you'll receive it soon. 

[livednlearned]

That's good to know. I didn't realize it was possible (at least where you are) to suspend licenses, etc. I'm going to also see about having the check garnished from his wages. I just worked with the payment coming later in the month, but it would certainly help if it deposited on the 1st of the month.

I'm going to check the mail later today -- if it's not there, my next step was going to be writing an email. "N/BPDx, please confirm that you have sent, or are planning to send, child support and alimony for this month."

[KateCat]

In my jurisdiction, the suspension of licenses can include professional licenses. (But I think it can take quite a while to get to that point.)

[Waddams]

Garnishment order would great.  Here, you don't even have to have a reason to file.  They call it an "Income Deduction Order".  Anyone with a court order to paid by someone else for alimony, child support, etc. can file for it, and it's pretty much a mandatory issue.  I think then it automatically goes through either a garnishment set up with an employer or bank, or through child support enforcement.  There are administrative fees that get tacked on as well, and usually the payer gets hit with those.

I pay my uPDxw child support, but I just have my employer direct deposit it straight from my paycheck.  It never gets to my bank account.  She likes that better than the public entity doing it because they collect it, then send it to her, and there would be a delay from when I get paid to when she gets paid, so she's never filed for any other orders.

In my jurisdiction, the suspension of licenses can include professional licenses. (But I think it can take quite a while to get to that point.)

Yeah, they try to strike a balance between consequences for non-payment and still not restricting via court order a payer's ability to earn the best wage possible.

And there are cases of true hardship where a payer just can't stay current due to circumstances like major medical expenses or job loss.  The courts here try to be sensitive to that and take the stance that if they pile on they just make it harder on the payer to get out of hardship.  It helps to make partial payments even if you can't stay totally current as well.  Shows good faith effort.

[livednlearned]

I'm wondering how to do this, taking BPD into consideration.

I could send him an email asking him to confirm and make sure the payment is on its way.

I could send him an email asking him to confirm, and let him know that if his payment is late, I will begin the process of having his wages garnished.

I could send him an email asking him to confirm, and if he does not respond within the next two days, start the process of having his wages garnished.

In general, I have taken into account his narcissism, and tried to not trigger inferiority when dealing with him. Going straight to have his wages garnished would trigger his inferiority.

The BPD part of him is triggered from a new round of abandonment since discovering I was dating, so I think the check is not just late. It's about imagining that S12 might become attached to another man.

[Waddams]

You know your situation better than anyone, so it's up to you.  My fiance has gotten so she doesn't try to contact her XH at all (he's now $7000 behind btw).  She just goes and files criminal abandonment charges.  He always shows up with enough money to stay out of jail.  But prior contact will warn them and can put them on the look out for a process server, enabling them to try to dodge service.  There are ways to address that, but it's just one more hoop to jump through.  Another thought to consider is that he's a big boy, knows his obligations, and it's not your job to remind him.  You are under no obligation whatsoever to contact him about this.  The negative engagement is what he's looking for.  It's okay to not engage him and just wait.  If non-payment goes on long enough, file and let his first inclination of your response be getting served.

Just a thought.  I know he won't react well to that either, but honestly, what is he going to react well to?  Probably not much at this point.  So my point is to protect yourself and have your own stringent boundaries with him for your own self preservation.

Not trying to tell you that you're wrong in how you're thinking or anything.  You're not.  Just trying to point out another angle and way of thinking about this.  Devil's advocate.   

[DreamGirl]

Ugh.

Does he mail it directly to you?

I would definitely start by sending him an email with this approach:

I could send him an email asking him to confirm and make sure the payment is on its way.

In my state, it's really easy to request that child support enforcement get involved but it's also a really lengthy process. An appointment to even see someone is usually 2-3 weeks. Their fiscal department then has to review the paperwork, determine the amount owed and how much is in arrears. Also, if a lawyer is still assigned to your divorce/child support case, then you have to get a letter from your attorney that states they've withdrawn. My exH hadn't paid child support for a year before I took action and it took over two months for him to even get the initial paperwork.

It also has to be more then 7 days for them to take more aggressive action. (i.e. wages aren't garnished until the obligor is 6 months in arrears. Suspending licenses and passports is based on a certain amount owed.)

Would you try to have your attorney get his checks garnished?

[ForeverDad]

Sounds like (he thinks) he knows how to skirt just below the level of the court's 'actionable' radar.

[livednlearned]

Ugh.

Does he mail it directly to you?

I would definitely start by sending him an email with this approach:

I could send him an email asking him to confirm and make sure the payment is on its way.

In my state, it's really easy to request that child support enforcement get involved but it's also a really lengthy process. An appointment to even see someone is usually 2-3 weeks. Their fiscal department then has to review the paperwork, determine the amount owed and how much is in arrears. Also, if a lawyer is still assigned to your divorce/child support case, then you have to get a letter from your attorney that states they've withdrawn. My exH hadn't paid child support for a year before I took action and it took over two months for him to even get the initial paperwork.

It also has to be more then 7 days for them to take more aggressive action. (i.e. wages aren't garnished until the obligor is 6 months in arrears. Suspending licenses and passports is based on a certain amount owed.)

Would you try to have your attorney get his checks garnished?

Yes, he mails it directly to me. It looks like it is issued automatically from his bank account -- it's not a handwritten check. So if it isn't there today, then likely he has stopped payment.

I think I'm going to send an email asking him to confirm.

I was hoping to avoid bringing in my lawyer. Every now and then the legal fees make me want to cry, and today is one of those days. Right now, actually.  :'(  I've never been in this much debt before. I'm thinking about borrowing from my retirement so I can pay my lawyer, plus credit cards. Tuition is due next week.

There's a possibility that N/BPDx is actually eligible to file the appeal that he filed. It won't go anywhere, but I will have to pay an appeals attorney to handle my case.

Sometimes I think this will all stop and then I realize, no. It really won't. There's no end in sight.  

[Nope]

I'd say there is no need to start with threats. Just let him know you have not gotten it and ask him to confirm that it has been sent. Sending that email itself starts a paper trail that may be useful later.If you don't hear back in a couple of days then go ahead and start whatever process you need to.

You will need to do your research on your options where you live. You may need to show proof of multiple months of late payments to get the court or child support enforcement to do anything so be prepared to do that. From what I've seen, there is a whole system in place to jump down a party's throat for not paying.

My SO has a full month to pay every month but if she doesn't get it the first few days of the month he gets a nasty phone call from her wanting to know where her money is. She has even gotten CS Enforcement to call him asking where her check is even though it wasn't late and never has been. In our case all checks are sent directly to CSE and they deposit the money into a special account attached to a bank card they have given her. Doing it this way racks up an extra $200 a year in processing fees that my SO must pay on his end. You should actually find out if that is something they do where you are.

[DreamGirl]

I hate this for you livednlearned.

I hope it's in the mail.

The nice thing is that once CSE is involved, they're always involved until you say not to be. It's also usually low cost (it's $25/year here). They also are effective.

I know it's not something that is fair or helpful to you right now, but I had to learn early on not to depend on child support. I know what it's like to deal with an ex who felt powerless and it was the only way to usurp power.

It doesn't just hurt me though. It's not even for me.

Making it hard for you financially to take care of your son - hurts your son.

I hope it's just the snail mail's fault.

[livednlearned]

I hate this for you livednlearned.

I hope it's in the mail.

The nice thing is that once CSE is involved, they're always involved until you say not to be. It's also usually low cost (it's $25/year here). They also are effective.

I know it's not something that is fair or helpful to you right now, but I had to learn early on not to depend on child support. I know what it's like to deal with an ex who felt powerless and it was the only way to usurp power.

It doesn't just hurt me though. It's not even for me.

Making it hard for you financially to take care of your son - hurts your son.

I hope it's just the snail mail's fault.

I guess I was counting on the narcissistic side of him too much. I think my dating triggered his abandonment, and now the two main parts of his PD are in conflict with each other -- not wanting to be inferior vs not wanting to be abandoned.

I get why this is triggering, I do. But I also get rent, and bills, and lawyer fees too.

You're right, about not counting on child support. Alimony ends next year and I've adjusted my budget for that. But I really didn't expect him to stiff child support -- he does not want S12 to think badly of him. Without CS, I cannot pay for an afterschool program that S12 is really excited about  :'(

I made a bad decision about financial aid, too. I took only the smallest amount, not enough to even cover tuition. I probably should've taken both loans, one as security just in case. But I couldn't stomach taking on more debt, especially only as back-up in case something like this happened.

[livednlearned]

No check in my mail box.

I emailed n/BPDx, asking him to confirm if he had sent, or was planning to send, child support and alimony.

He responded by sending me back my response.

I think he is going to pay, but wants me to sweat. Which I am.

My spider senses tell me that he needs to feel powerful right now, and this is how he's doing it. 

My legal bills just keep climbing. Right now, all the orders from our 12/13/13 hearing are being entered, and my L is trying to figure out what's up with N/BPDx's appeal.

I don't know why, but this last episode, plus the appeal, plus watching all these orders getting entered. It's all wearing me down.  :'(

[Free One]

No check in my mail box.

I emailed n/BPDx, asking him to confirm if he had sent, or was planning to send, child support and alimony.

He responded by sending me back my response.

I think he is going to pay, but wants me to sweat. Which I am.

My spider senses tell me that he needs to feel powerful right now, and this is how he's doing it. 

My legal bills just keep climbing. Right now, all the orders from our 12/13/13 hearing are being entered, and my L is trying to figure out what's up with N/BPDx's appeal.

I don't know why, but this last episode, plus the appeal, plus watching all these orders getting entered. It's all wearing me down.  :'(

Definitely check with your state child support department. Each state is different. For example, my state requires all payments to go through the state (you can not pay each other directly). When I had to ask for garnishment after 30 days of missed payments, it happened fast.

I would be cautious in contacting him about it. I fear you are feeding into his ego and giving him too much pleasure by contacting him. I know how hard it is, but for me it was easier to work with the state then the ex.

If, for some reason, they are unable to garnish, and the missed payments start piling up, I would recommend finding out what kind of legal action the state takes. Where I live, after so many missed months, the state itself will go after the paying parent (especially if custodial parent receives any kind of state assistance) with legal contempt actions. This will save you money and headaches in the long run.

[Free One]

Also, maybe for the time being we can help you develop an action plan of what you need to do to cover your bills WITHOUT ex. What resources do you have in your area? Do you qualify for state assistance of any kind? Is there a domestic abuse program that may be able to help you get your legal costs covered? Can you get a loan? Can you increase your income in some way? Can family members help? What are your options.

It's all so overwhelming and scary - I know. But, I have confidence that you can handle this and you can survive financially without him. It's your last tie to cut.

[livednlearned]

Also, maybe for the time being we can help you develop an action plan of what you need to do to cover your bills WITHOUT ex. What resources do you have in your area? Do you qualify for state assistance of any kind? Is there a domestic abuse program that may be able to help you get your legal costs covered? Can you get a loan? Can you increase your income in some way? Can family members help? What are your options.

It's all so overwhelming and scary - I know. But, I have confidence that you can handle this and you can survive financially without him. It's your last tie to cut.

That's where my brain is right now. I'm going to sell my car and buy a cheaper one. I was trying to avoid having to do that because technically, N/BPDx owes me $13K in legal fees. 

I have a friend who said she will send me money to cover bills if N/BPDx does not come through. I live frugally, so I can scrape by with what I have left from my work income. But I will have to cancel S12's afterschool program and I'm not sure how I will cover tuition. I can't use a credit card to pay for tuition, I don't think. I'll double and triple check that.

I'm nervous about covering taxes this year. State laws just changed to a flat tax, no exemptions for dependents. I think that affects me. I'm terribly dyslexic with things that involve number/letter combinations, and cannot read forms to save my life, so this kind of task, while easy for most people, is daunting. I'm going to try and figure out in advance how this affects me. I doubt it's going to work in my favor since it's not a single-parent friendly kind of new law.

My big question is about moving. Because S12 is with me 98%, I think that means I need to live in this school district in order for him to be eligible. It's a good school district, so rent and housing prices are steep. If I move somewhere cheaper, we're out of the school district, and I don't want to move S12 right now if I can avoid it.

I also have retirement funds. I might be able to borrow against those funds, although if I can't pay them back, there is a penalty.

My lawyer said if he doesn't pay we file a motion for contempt. That can't be right, can it? On the state website, it says that if I have an L, I need to go through my L. Or else, my L has to withdraw, and then I can deal directly with the state. Could that be right?

[ForeverDad]

My state charges the payer a 2% fee to handle support payments.  You may have to switch to the state enforcement payment methods, cumbersome and not perfect but at least it removes you from being the direct recipient.  You'll have to decide which method has the biggest downside.

It's possible he logs onto his bank account and manually orders a check to be generated and mailed to you.  If it's not an automatic payment then that's how he can decide how much to delay depending on his mood.

[livednlearned]

My state charges the payer a 2% fee to handle support payments.  You may have to switch to the state enforcement payment methods, cumbersome and not perfect but at least it removes you from being the direct recipient.  You'll have to decide which method has the biggest downside.

It's possible he logs onto his bank account and manually orders a check to be generated and mailed to you.  If it's not an automatic payment then that's how he can decide how much to delay depending on his mood.

He just sent a screenshot showing that he issued the check from his bank.

Covering his butt, I think.

So you're right, FD. He is manually sending it out.

If I could get by without alimony and CS I would do it in a heartbeat. This was a good wake-up call for me. I'm going to change how I handle my finances because of this. It means paying down debt much more slowly, but at least I can save a small amount in case he does this again. Just enough to cover bills long enough to get the process in motion. 

[Free One]

My lawyer said if he doesn't pay we file a motion for contempt. That can't be right, can it? On the state website, it says that if I have an L, I need to go through my L. Or else, my L has to withdraw, and then I can deal directly with the state. Could that be right?

It varies so much by state. I would start by calling a state child support caseworker to get some answers questioned. Again, in my state, the state itself is the one who handles enforcement of child support in terms of filing liens, suspending licenses, garnishing wages.

If you want to PM me your state, I would be happy to help with research on the topic.

[atcrossroads]

I know these PD people are "ill," but what an A$$!     He sounds so much like my husband (soon to be ex, thank goodness).  It's just sickening the torment they put us through, but then they are always the victim and blame us for all.  Again,   

LnL, I am truly sorry he has ruined you financially -- for now.  You will get back on your feet, and this WILL end.  Ok, maybe not until son is 18, but it will subside and become easier (it has to... . right?).  I have been losing sleep and hair (literally) lately over my own debt and financial situation as well.  It's not easy being in mid 40's and suddenly having a mountain of debt when I've always been careful with money.  With a plan in place though, which you have, you will recover from this. 

Hang in there and remember how strong you are.  You are free... . the money will take a few years to build back up (or rather pay down), but it will happen.

[livednlearned]

I've learned a lot in the past 24 hours. And I have a plan, so I'm ok for now. Thanks everyone for the support and ideas about how CS works.

N/BPDx is dysregulating. He kept sending emails, multiple, over and over, with only this: $$$$$$$

Then cc'ing me on emails to S12 that make no sense. Sometimes I can interpret his emails and figure out where the paranoia is coming from, but not this stuff. It's just off the wall. The only thing that makes sense is that he recently learned I was dating. That, and alcohol.

He is filing something about my lawyer to the state bar, filing a complaint against the parenting coordinator, filing an appeal, jerking me around with the child support, then sending immature, odd emails to S12, copying me. He seems to be having a one-sided conversation with S12 as though S12 is ignoring him.

I don't have the CS check, just saw the screenshot indicating it was sent. 

[Free One]

He kept sending emails, multiple, over and over, with only this: $$$$$$$

Omg. This made me laugh! My ex's signature on emails is always changing, but often it's $$$$!

[Waddams]

If only the definition of justifiable homicide was broader.   

Is cutting off S12's communication/visitation with N/BPDx something to consider?  I know it's a drastic step, but at this point, N/BPDx is drastically acting in ways that are detrimental to S12.  S12 needs to be protected from it.  And i don't mean a court order, I mean just do it and let N/BPDx react how he will for right now.  Sometimes it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission from a judge, particularly when you can clearly show you situation does not conform to the norm's that the courts are used to and you are acting in the child's best interest.

Also, could this be grounds for a RO?  It's so common for these people to dysregulate to the point that they become threats.  Even if not, filing for one now just to get the concerns on record can only help you later.  He's acting threatening and intimidating beyond any level of acceptability.  Whether he is just blowing hot air and has no real intent to do harm or not, you shouldn't have to put up with it, and neither should S12.  I'd recommend file for an ex parte RO as soon as you can, if nothing else, on the basis of harassment and continued financial threats.  This is emotional abuse in every sense and you have a right to seek relief.

[atcrossroads]

If only the definition of justifiable homicide was broader.   

Is cutting off S12's communication/visitation with N/BPDx something to consider?  I know it's a drastic step, but at this point, N/BPDx is drastically acting in ways that are detrimental to S12.  S12 needs to be protected from it.  And i don't mean a court order, I mean just do it and let N/BPDx react how he will for right now.  Sometimes it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission from a judge, particularly when you can clearly show you situation does not conform to the norm's that the courts are used to and you are acting in the child's best interest.

Also, could this be grounds for a RO?  It's so common for these people to dysregulate to the point that they become threats.  Even if not, filing for one now just to get the concerns on record can only help you later.  He's acting threatening and intimidating beyond any level of acceptability.  Whether he is just blowing hot air and has no real intent to do harm or not, you shouldn't have to put up with it, and neither should S12.  I'd recommend file for an ex parte RO as soon as you can, if nothing else, on the basis of harassment and continued financial threats.  This is emotional abuse in every sense and you have a right to seek relief.

YES!

  You are strong!  Glad you have a plan. 

[livednlearned]

If only the definition of justifiable homicide was broader.   

Is cutting off S12's communication/visitation with N/BPDx something to consider?  I know it's a drastic step, but at this point, N/BPDx is drastically acting in ways that are detrimental to S12.  S12 needs to be protected from it.  And i don't mean a court order, I mean just do it and let N/BPDx react how he will for right now.  Sometimes it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission from a judge, particularly when you can clearly show you situation does not conform to the norm's that the courts are used to and you are acting in the child's best interest.

Also, could this be grounds for a RO?  It's so common for these people to dysregulate to the point that they become threats.  Even if not, filing for one now just to get the concerns on record can only help you later.  He's acting threatening and intimidating beyond any level of acceptability.  Whether he is just blowing hot air and has no real intent to do harm or not, you shouldn't have to put up with it, and neither should S12.  I'd recommend file for an ex parte RO as soon as you can, if nothing else, on the basis of harassment and continued financial threats.  This is emotional abuse in every sense and you have a right to seek relief.

I got very clear about what it would take for me to file an RO sometime in the second year when N/BPDx had his psychotic episode. I don't believe it would work for my situation, not when I take into account the fall-out vs. effectiveness. I had to really work through this with my T, and I'm at a good place with it. I feel very clear about how I want to set my boundaries, not only for managing him, but for managing me and my emotions as well. Not having money to pay bills is upsetting, but sending him an email asking him where the money is, and getting his response... . it's like managing an illness where the medication didn't seem to be working, so I adjusted my attitude, went into problem-solving mode, and did a few other things to correct things. Not sure that makes sense, I guess I'm trying to say that I have an approach that helps me manage my stress level. This was a good lesson to remind me that I need to expect this behavior, and be prepared for it.  

[livednlearned]

The check arrived... .

[Nope]

The check arrived... .

Awesome.

But let that be a test of the Emergency Non-Payment System. This was only a test. Now you know you need to be better prepared for if the real thing happens.

[livednlearned]

The check arrived... .

Awesome.

But let that be a test of the Emergency Non-Payment System. This was only a test. Now you know you need to be better prepared for if the real thing happens.

Yes, especially because we have more drama heading our way. N/BPDx is being served his next motion for contempt for not paying legal fees. Then there will be a hearing. That will be his third opportunity to explain why he hasn't paid my legal fees, and I can't imagine the judge giving him another chance. Next is orange jumpsuit. 

[maxen]

great news on the check.

if he's in a jail cell, can he write checks at all?

I have a friend who said she will send me money to cover bills if N/BPDx does not come through.

you have a wonderful friend.