should i move to smaller place?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

OK - need some objective thoughts from you.  Just divorced by BPD H, have 2 very young kiddies.

We have a pretty nice apartment now near a great park.  But I pretty much exactly meet expenses every month, even with child support.  I am sometimes a fan of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" especially in terms of big decisions like a move.  

But now that I have to pay off my credit cards due to legal bills (and you never know when exH could cause more bills), I am thinking I should try to save a little and have a cushion.  I do have some emergency money (5K), which is about a third of the amount I owe in legal bills.  I am deferring the bills a year (they are on credit cards with a year interest free, so I just make the monthly payment).

Anyway, our place is a small three bedroom and i have two very young kids.  They are generally in the living room and not in their rooms, so it'd be fine for us to move from a 3br to a 2br and have them share a room for a few years.

I took a place seven blocks away (2 bedroom) in a nice area.  But we will now be 8 blocks from the park, where we go every day in the summer, and the same from school, which is currently around the corner.  Yeah, okay, that's not so far, but with little kids it takes a while.  It's nice to be next to the park and not 8 blocks from it.  (It's not a beautiful park, but it is great for kids.)

I am saving $500 a month, which is nice - well, $400 if you take off for moving expenses.  

Here is what concerns me:

-New place is on a high floor (6th, not like a skyscraper or anything) in an old building, always a little nervewracking if there was a fire.  I do take precautions.

-Less space, obviously.  They can share a room for maybe 4-5 years, but not forever

-The devil you don't know.  What if we have crappy neighbors, or some other problem?  I don't really know my neighbors where we are now but we haven't had any terrible problems.

-Another change for the kids after the divorce, that's 2 big changes in a row

-There aren't a lot of affordable 3 bedrooms apts around here.  If I leave here, it will be hard to find another in a few years when we need one.

-I have an investment that may prove lucrative in four months.  If it comes through, I will have lots more money.  I will not know until that time.  It would be a waste to move if that's going to happen, but it's iffy. Certain parts of it also keep getting postponed, so 4 months from now I could hear that it's been pushed back a year.

Advantages of new place:

-Won't have to worry as much about money, especially if an unexpected expense comes up (root canal, health insurance fee increase).  In this economy, you really don't know what wil happen.

So you may say, "Well, just wait a few more months."  I didn't want to wait too long because apartments like this 2br, which is affordable, are rare.  I also know the landlords and they're good landlords.  I already said I'm taking the place, and if I back out I may seem flaky and not have the chance again.

In some ways, a new place might be cool.  Really I am doing this so that I have a little extra money so the kids can have things they need, if it comes to it, and so I won't always worry about money.  But it is also important to be in a place with a nice amount of space, and being near the park is nice too.  I work so we aren't home all day, but it is nice to be in an apartment with more space.  

Anyone have any thoughts on positives and negatives?

[momtara]

OK - need some objective thoughts from you.  Just divorced by BPD H, have 2 very young kiddies.

We have a pretty nice apartment now near a great park.  But I pretty much exactly meet expenses every month, even with child support.  I am sometimes a fan of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" especially in terms of big decisions like a move.  

But now that I have to pay off my credit cards due to legal bills (and you never know when exH could cause more bills), I am thinking I should try to save a little and have a cushion.  I do have some emergency money (5K), which is about a third of the amount I owe in legal bills.  I am deferring the bills a year (they are on credit cards with a year interest free, so I just make the monthly payment).

Anyway, our place is a small three bedroom and i have two very young kids.  They are generally in the living room and not in their rooms, so it'd be fine for us to move from a 3br to a 2br and have them share a room for a few years.

I took a place seven blocks away (2 bedroom) in a nice area.  But we will now be 8 blocks from the park, where we go every day in the summer, and the same from school, which is currently around the corner.  Yeah, okay, that's not so far, but with little kids it takes a while.  It's nice to be next to the park and not 8 blocks from it.  (It's not a beautiful park, but it is great for kids.)

I am saving $500 a month, which is nice - well, $400 if you take off for moving expenses.  

Here is what concerns me:

-New place is on a high floor (6th, not like a skyscraper or anything) in an old building, always a little nervewracking if there was a fire.  I do take precautions.

-Less space, obviously.  They can share a room for maybe 4-5 years, but not forever

-The devil you don't know.  What if we have crappy neighbors, or some other problem?  I don't really know my neighbors where we are now but we haven't had any terrible problems.

-Another change for the kids after the divorce, that's 2 big changes in a row

-There aren't a lot of affordable 3 bedrooms apts around here.  If I leave here, it will be hard to find another in a few years when we need one.

-I have an investment that may prove lucrative in four months.  If it comes through, I will have lots more money.  I will not know until that time.  It would be a waste to move if that's going to happen, but it's iffy. Certain parts of it also keep getting postponed, so 4 months from now I could hear that it's been pushed back a year.

Advantages of new place:

-Won't have to worry as much about money, especially if an unexpected expense comes up (root canal, health insurance fee increase).  In this economy, you really don't know what wil happen.

So you may say, "Well, just wait a few more months."  I didn't want to wait too long because apartments like this 2br, which is affordable, are rare.  I also know the landlords and they're good landlords.  I already said I'm taking the place, and if I back out I may seem flaky and not have the chance again.

In some ways, a new place might be cool.  Really I am doing this so that I have a little extra money so the kids can have things they need, if it comes to it, and so I won't always worry about money.  But it is also important to be in a place with a nice amount of space, and being near the park is nice too.  I work so we aren't home all day, but it is nice to be in an apartment with more space.  

Anyone have any thoughts on positives and negatives?

[Matt]

Sorry you didn't get any help with this - I just don't have anything helpful to add - you seem to be aware of the positives and negatives... .

Have you made any progress on a decision?

[WalrusGumboot]

-Won't have to worry as much about money, especially if an unexpected expense comes up (root canal, health insurance fee increase).  In this economy, you really don't know what wil happen.

In my opinion, this positive trumps all the negatives combined.

After my D, I started a campaign of living lean. It's really nice putting money into savings almost every paycheck. It's not a forever situation, but I got so tired of debt and worrying about paying bills and all the "what-if" scenarios of what could go wrong.

[momtara]

Yeah, most people are in favor of me saving money, when polled.  That's what I'm going to do.  I also asked to see the place again, so I'll feel a little better about it.

[Nope]

Just going to play devil's advocate for a minute. Less bedrooms is the only potential issue I see. Yes it is fine for now with them being so young but you should always thin *welcome*k long term when in a situation that could potentially go back to court. Did your ex sign some kind of parenting agreement? If he did he could say that he allowed you to have physical custody with the understanding that each child would have their own bedroom and that is now no longer the case so the court should take another look. I'm not saying he would get anywhere with it, but it could be seen as enough reason to drag you back in to court. And if you end up with a bunch more lawyers bills did you really save any money by moving?

[Monarch Butterfly]

I am not divorced and I have not been through this, so I am answering upon pure speculation. But I do have 2 small kids and am looking at this decision through their eyes. They have been through a lot. Not having one parent there is also an issue they are getting used too. They might not react well too a lot of sequential routine breakers.

I would take the kids, even small ones, (unless he's a toddler or in diapers) to the new place and see their reaction. Sometimes kids will burst out in tears and feel terrified. Other times they will look at the place with good eyes. Check out their reaction. I'm not saying to let the kids decide, but just get a feel for how they react. Even 4-5 year olds can give you feed back and it has to be a place where they feel is theirs too. Sometimes they are ready for a change too.

Also think of long term... . 2 bedroom now is okay, but will not be in the future, unless they are very understanding of the situation. Most adolescents aren't. That would mean yet another move. More uprooting.

A move would be a good decision in the future, and as you said, if you can wait just a bit and see about the financial situation, it is to your advantage. Other places will be on the market, keep your eyes open. Don`t feel like this is your only chance at getting good living arrangements, that will just pressure you into getting out fast. Maybe you could wait just a bit, get the money, even if it is in a year or so, and find a 3 bedroom definitive place. No more moves... .


As I said, I am not yet there, but one day will be. In a couple years I might tell you to do the exact opposite... . Live and learn. As for me, I do not want to live in the same house after our divorce. I long to leave the place that has so many bad memories in it... .

[momtara]

They are toddlers so they don't really need their own rooms for a while.  There's nothing in the agreement about a 2 bedroom vs. 3 bedroom.  But those are all good points.  I think I will just give my lawyer a heads up so that she is aware of the situation.  Thank you for making that point, before I do something I regret.  Yes, legal bills will run me much higher than anything I could save!

[Matt]

Good thoughts from everybody.

Here are just a couple other aspects - I don't have any answers... .

One is, how many times will you want to move while the kids are growing up?  I ask because my ex raised my adult stepson, from birth til 18 (when we got married), and moved almost every year, and with 20/20 hindsight I think that was very damaging to him - he had no long-term friends or adults in his life except his mom, and he was always the "new kid" in school.  He had to get very good at fitting in, which led to behavior that wasn't good for him - if somebody said, "Try this!", he gave in to peer pressure fast, to get along.  So... . a good strategy might be one that will allow you to live in the same place - or maybe the same neighborhood - as long as possible.

Also, think about establishing the "new normal" as soon as possible - maybe a change from how things were, but a very stable situation, not frequent changes or lots of chaos.  If you can establish your new normal soon, and get everything settled, that is probably best for the kids.  Young kids need a sense of security.

[momtara]

I hate moving.  It was damaging to me as a kid.  But they ARE young.  I am thinking that I can save money over a few years this way.  My only fear now is that exH will come up with reasons to thwart it.  It will be seen by him as another step in leaving him.  And an hour of lawyer's fees costs the same as what I'll be saving.  And I'll be stuck if he tries to go to court over this, as I won't be able to get my old place back once someone signs a lease for it.  But this is all speculation and letting him get the best of me.  I haven't even told him about it yet.  I can only tell him one trigger thing at a time, and with little kids, there are always doc's appointments and things I have to tell him.  Ugh.

[Matt]

I hate moving.  It was damaging to me as a kid.  But they ARE young.  I am thinking that I can save money over a few years this way.  My only fear now is that exH will come up with reasons to thwart it.  It will be seen by him as another step in leaving him.  And an hour of lawyer's fees costs the same as what I'll be saving.  And I'll be stuck if he tries to go to court over this, as I won't be able to get my old place back once someone signs a lease for it.  But this is all speculation and letting him get the best of me.  I haven't even told him about it yet.  I can only tell him one trigger thing at a time, and with little kids, there are always doc's appointments and things I have to tell him.  Ugh.

I wouldn't worry about the legal aspect - I'm not a lawyer and it would be best if you could find one to consult free or cheap, but I can't imagine a court punishing you for moving - it happens after lots of divorces and it's a normal part of life.

You don't have to respond to anything he says about your choice of where to live, unless he files court papers, and in that case I think you can just respond that you needed to move for financial reasons and this new place (whichever one you choose) is good for the child - end of story.  Unless he has evidence that the child isn't safe, it's none of his business.

(I went through this, kinda, but kinda different.  I needed to move 250 miles for work, and I enrolled the kids in a very good school in the new town.  Theoretically we needed to agree on the move, and I tried to achieve that with a court-appointed mediator, but got nowhere.  So I told my ex, with the mediator present, that if I had to go to court I would disclose everything relevant, including stuff she had done which had not yet been disclosed to the court, and she then accepted my proposal - I would pay for her moving cost if she chose to move to the new town too.  And that's what happened - best outcome for everybody, since the new place is near where she grew up - she prefers it to the old town too.  But that's pretty different from your situation - I don't think you'll have a problem with the move to whichever place you choose.)

[momtara]

The only thing he can say is that a high floor is a bigger fire hazard.  You're right, he can threaten and I can ignore.  I just have to worry that he'll do the same to me about stuff.  I try to consider his feelings the way I'd want mine considered, rather than playing hardball.  In this case I'll just have to be firm.

And... . wow, you were smart.  We all become experts at dealing with our exes better than anyone else can.  Frustrating process tho.

[Matt]

In this case I'll just have to be firm.

Firm, and distant.  You don't have to engage in discussions with him unless you decide it's for a good reason.

[Free One]

Smaller place means less space to clean! 

I have always looked at places to live with a five year plan in mind. It seems doable to me to commit to a place for five years. While I can see moving a lot as damaging, I don't think well thought out moves for the right reasons are bad. I personally, am not a 30-year-mortgage kind of person. Maybe when I'm older, but not now.

$400 a month is a huge savings. A lot of us on this board have experienced times when child support does not come through. I think it is important for you to do what you can now to make sure you have a cushion and can remain at home with your kids while they are young.

[momtara]

good point.  i am not a stay at home mom now, but would like to be home part of the day some day.

i saw the place again and it is soo small for two toddlers who want to run around, though.

ugh, i should have just waited until summer to decide.  i can still pull out, but the opportunities later may be worse.  ah, i hate these decisions. 

[ForeverDad]

Any updates?  I was thinking that another affordable apartment there may open up on a lower floor and perhaps a bit bigger.  Is there much of a turnover in apartments?  Eight blocks away... . figures 6 square blocks on just one side of the park and you'd have 36 entire blocks to watch for apartments becoming available.  Keep  your eyes and ears open.

(I used to be in NYC and I know huge block of apartments almost never became available in many areas because the city effectively capped the rents to minimal increases and so many people sat tight and didn't move.)

[momtara]

I did ask if another one was becoming available, but they said no.  So I am moving.  We retained a parent coordinator and this could get expensive, so I think moving is the right thing to do.