MIL may have been raped many years ago

[Our abuse recovery guide]

For all of you out there... . what do we do?  Husband has had his mother blocked from email and text messages now since Christmas... . ( this is something he has to do off and on) anyway, he removed the app that he blocked her with and forgot "block" her again with the new program... . low and behold it's been super quiet because she was pretty nasty at Christmas... . she dropped a bombshell just a few minutes ago telling him that she has never told anyone this... . she got an STD years ago... . that she was very young when she lost her virginity ... . the person is no longer around her... . the message was not too clear, she is 70.  anyway, my husband has never been told this information and he is now 47... .

We have discussed her obviously a lot thinking something had to have happened many, many years ago... . so this makes sense but why at age 70 is she completely out of the blue sending her 47 year grown married son that she may have been raped many years ago and it's something she has been holding in... . we are trying to "read between the lines" from her text and we think she is referring to her own father... .

Soo  what does everyone think?  I admit I get a little leary... . just another way to get our attention... . husband believes her... . I do somewhat, makes sense why her BPD really stands out... . and yet I question her... . I admit :-(

soo help out there... . how do we approach this? Husband has no clue how to respond at all... . he is googling free or reduced mental health services for her... . this really came out of the blue... . we don't know what to do!

Thanks for any and all suggestions, advice,thoughts etc.

[apples30]

For all of you out there... . what do we do?  Husband has had his mother blocked from email and text messages now since Christmas... . ( this is something he has to do off and on) anyway, he removed the app that he blocked her with and forgot "block" her again with the new program... . low and behold it's been super quiet because she was pretty nasty at Christmas... . she dropped a bombshell just a few minutes ago telling him that she has never told anyone this... . she got an STD years ago... . that she was very young when she lost her virginity ... . the person is no longer around her... . the message was not too clear, she is 70.  anyway, my husband has never been told this information and he is now 47... .

We have discussed her obviously a lot thinking something had to have happened many, many years ago... . so this makes sense but why at age 70 is she completely out of the blue sending her 47 year grown married son that she may have been raped many years ago and it's something she has been holding in... . we are trying to "read between the lines" from her text and we think she is referring to her own father... .

Soo  what does everyone think?  I admit I get a little leary... . just another way to get our attention... . husband believes her... . I do somewhat, makes sense why her BPD really stands out... . and yet I question her... . I admit :-(

soo help out there... . how do we approach this? Husband has no clue how to respond at all... . he is googling free or reduced mental health services for her... . this really came out of the blue... . we don't know what to do!

Thanks for any and all suggestions, advice,thoughts etc.

[BlueCat]

What do you think you should do? I'm not sure I'm clear on what you are thinking. Is your dh thinking that if this is true she should be given free reign to do whatever?

To be fair, quite a lot of BPD people were abused in some way as children and that's why they develop this disorder. Not all of them, but it is true more times than not.

And it Does. Not. Matter.

It's ok to feel sorry for someone and what they've gone through and still refuse to let them treat you badly. It's ok

Many people who become drug addicts or violent criminals had horrid childhoods. It's the same thing. You feel sorry for the child they were but you don't allow the adult they have become to hurt people just because of what they want through.

You help them if they are willing to accept help but if they aren't, you protect yourself (and any minor children you have) and that's it.

[Sitara]

Telling you out of the blue after being blocked seems like an attempt to draw you back into her life.  Telling you things that are fairly inappropriate for a parent to tell their child seems like a lack of boundaries.  Telling you she is sick seems like she's playing the martyr. 

I agree with BlueCat that a painful past doesn't excuse abusive behavior as an adult.  Your husband can believe it happened, but it doesn't make your husband responsible for fixing it.  Do you think that at 70, if she hasn't gotten professional help before this point, she is going to now?  If this happened so long ago, why is she bringing it up now?

Trust your gut instinct.  Do what you need to do to keep your family healthy.

[apples30]

Good question... . I don't really know what I am thinking! I am really tossed... . I guess it literally came out of the blue a few hours ago... . she has played such havoc in our lives since we married in 2008... . my husband has been dealing with her his entire life but we have dived into understanding her behaviors ever since we got married and I guess I am the one that had done all of the research on the behaviors/BPD. I am completely aware that many people experience some sort of trauma that leads to this horrid mental illness... . so in some ways we are shocked but also are thinking... . "this is exactly what we thought might have happened". We have talked about her and the possible scenarios a million times... . but she has never eluded to any sort of abuse ever to him... . he doesn't recall anything. So why is she telling him via text message 60+ years later( have no idea how old she was... . we don't know the details etc)  but it 's a lot to digest today... . so I am looking for thoughts and understanding.

If it's true then its too bad that it happened... . but I also agree with you that doesn't give her a right to verbally abuse myself and my husband, harass my family.  I could write a laundry list of the things she has done and said to so many people. it's jaw dropping... . so in some ways her latest confession is also jaw dropping. I think my husband agrees as well... . but I can also see  that he would be possibly say, " well she was sexually abused so she can't help it"... . hope he won't get to that point. About 3 years ago she called up and left him a voicemail telling him she loved him and doesn't know why she does the things she does... . so he forgave her and was happy that she acknowledged it... . she doesn't apologize very easily nor does she ever show any sort of affection... .   I was very skeptical and had to refrain from expressing my opinion... . lo and behold she went back to her awful, inappropriate behaviors many times since then... . so a part of me feels this is a ploy again... . "this is what happened and this is why I am the way I am"... . he'll feel sorry for her etc... . UGH!

Do we believe her?  or is she really trying to weasel in and get her only child's attention and feel sorry for her? She has never been to a therapist, nor ever sought any kind of help of any sort.  My husband is torn too... he hasn't responded back to her yet... . still trying to digest it... . why didn't she call and tell him, or invite him over to tell him... . her new form of communication is texting... . she probably has an idea that we block her from email and facebook etc... .

I am a kind person who means well and doesn't want to cause unrest or anxiety in life... . but I have no love for her and what she has done over the past 8 years... . we aren't able to conceive, it's been a struggle since we married and of course we have age related infertility... . our chances are pretty low that we will ever have children... . and a part of me blames her for it( and that's another story... . lots of stress from my Dad's terminal illness and eventual death prior to our wedding)  So between losing my Dad, stressing about trying to conceive and then stress with my MIL  has NOT been a good combination... . we have very high boundaries, very little contact at all with her and we both are okay with that... . but it's still his Mom so he does struggle with it... . now this latest information really boggles the mind!

So I guess as I write this... . should we or my husband call her and acknowledge her latest and then see if she wants to seek help?   She hasn't all these years so why would she start now?( I am just thinking out loud)... .   Should we believe her or not?  A small part of me doesn't believe her but my husband says he does... . thanks for listening/reading... . any other thoughts are welcomed!

[orderline]

Sound like she got you on your toes.

In your situation, and since she is in dialoge you can answer anything you like as mature people.

If she is faking it she will have a mature and valid reponse to a fake or confused message.

Do not create new convertaions outside the subject wit accusations, warnings, rejections. Just stay calm and assure and calm her down.

The level of upset in BPD is the level of unreal thinking. Do not work with her if she is upset. Ground rule is CBC - Calm Before Communication.

[apples30]

I think she does have us by the toes!  She has told us so many stories the last few years, including they she "met someone online" and that he came to our wedding reception/dance... . we thought it was odd that we never "met" him and didn't see anyone at the reception that we didn't recognize... . now this compared to being possibly sexually abused is quite different I realize... . but she has certainly made things up to get a rise out of us, to get our attention... . she is notorious for attention seeking... . so I guess I feel bad for questioning this latest bombshell and yet I feel it could be possible... . she has not relationship with her only sister and her parents are now both deceased... . this is a tricky one and I am letting my husband deal with this one :-( I will not bug him about it but let him approach her when he feels he is ready... . I just fear that he will fall into her trap... . he really struggles at time and he truly hopes she will get better, even at 70 but last month he opened up more and seems to be accepting that she won't... . so it continues.   Such a sad situation.

Thanks :-)

[BlueCat]

" well she was sexually abused so she can't help it"

This is sort of what my mother claimed a therapist told her. She says he said that since she was abused as a child, nothing she did was her fault. He was a horrible therapist who should have had his license revoked (for other reasons I won't get into now), but my mother also hears what she wants to hear (and sometimes lies) so who knows what he really said.

so a part of me feels this is a ploy again... . "this is what happened and this is why I am the way I am"... . he'll feel sorry for her etc... . UGH!

The thing is (and please read this to the end) it's very likely that something traumatic happened to her. Either what she's implying here, or maybe a childhood of other abuses, something. It could be a lie, true, but think about how disturbed someone has to be to lie about something like that? What it comes down to is that something bad most probably did happen to your MIL to make her the way she is.  

Now sit with that and think about if it makes it ok for her to abuse you? Because the answer should really be "no" (and if the answer is "yes, it's ok for her to abuse me" then I suggest you go get therapy yourself )

Maybe talk to your dh about the things people have said here? That if she hasn't sought out help by 70, it's not likely to happen, but if it does happen it has to be because she decides to. You can't make people get well when they don't want to. It's like the alcoholic who has to hit rock bottom and truly understand he needs help. Before he realizes it himself, he just thinks everyone else is over reacting.

It's ok for you (and your dh) to feel bad for her and what might have happened to her while still maintaining strong boundaries.  

Do we believe her?  or is she really trying to weasel in and get her only child's attention and feel sorry for her? . . . .

So I guess as I write this... . should we or my husband call her and acknowledge her latest and then see if she wants to seek help?   She hasn't all these years so why would she start now?( I am just thinking out loud)... .  Should we believe her or not?  A small part of me doesn't believe her but my husband says he does... . thanks for listening/reading... . any other thoughts are welcomed!

The first part - there's no reason it can't be both and honestly, I bet it is both. I bet it's true AND she's only telling him to get his attention and make him feel sorry for her. That's how it works  

The second part - if it was me, I'd write back something short and sweet about how I'm sorry for her pain and then move on. And if she brings it up again I'd state that being hurt doesn't give her the right to hurt others and you won't allow that sort of treatment in your life. Something simple like that.

I honestly would not bring it up unless she does and even then, do not let it be used as an excuse for what she does. Because you know what? If her father did molest or rape her - what happened to him to make him that way? You can go back and back and back with this sort of chain. It has to stop somewhere. It's not stopping with her obviously, but maybe it can stop with you and your husband.

[apples30]

Thanks BlueCat :-)

My husband did respond to her last night... . it took him awhile to compose something and often times when she lashes out or throws a dagger... . hours or days later she will send an email about something so frivolous... . this time it was an youtube video about Elvis... . UGH... . so he replied simply by saying that he received her text and was sorry it happened... . hoped she could now find peace... . etc. He did not ask her why she was bringing it up now so many years later... . something I would have done but it was his choice... .   so as usual, this morning she sent another text about something completely out of the blue, no response to his email, no comment, nothing... .   so will she respond anymore to him in regards to this admission?  I think my husband does feel sorry for her and I get that... . what a horrible thing if it's in fact true... . she wants him to feel for her and then she turns around to act like nothing else has happened by telling him the local Wal-Mart is empty getting ready for the new one to open up... . really?

I am not heartless and truly feel she has led a very sad life all these years and it really is too bad. But we can't excuse her for her poor behaviors.  I think I panic because I grew up with a very healthy childhood with healthy and loving parents and for that matter healthy relatives( for the most part... . everyone has a few out there!)  This has really been an eye opening experience for me the past 5.5 years... . something I never dreamed I would ever encounter... . my husband thanks me often for hanging in there with him and staying by his side... . I truly love him and I support him but my BIGGEST fear that causes me such stress, and fear is that at some point he will "take her side, feel sorry for her and tell me to lighten up, she can't help it, she has a mental illness, etc"... . NO he hasn't really done this but a few times over the last couple of years there has been a slight insinuation... . we do talk very openly and he has expressed his frustrations with her and even some sadness for not having a "normal" mother... . he is very thankful to  have a loving and supportive family of mine... . thank goodness :-) 

I think something happened to her as well and we both have talked about the possibility many, many times... . just shocked that it came completely out of the blue on a Saturday afternoon... . it's like she has been "listening in on our conversations"... . HA HA... .   she told him she has never told anyone and I think he even felt a little uncomfortable that she was so "open" with him via a text message about something so serious that happened a really, really long time ago... .

anyway I need reassurance that I am not overreacting... . I have allowed  it bother me too much because I know my husband takes our marriage and life very seriously, we come first but there is always that little feeling at the pit of the stomach that he will get angry at me for being angry and hurt by her... . I know that's a crazy thought... .    

Thank you :-)

[apples30]

For all of you out there... . what do we do?  Husband has had his mother blocked from email and text messages now since Christmas... . ( this is something he has to do off and on) anyway, he removed the app that he blocked her with and forgot "block" her again with the new program... . low and behold it's been super quiet because she was pretty nasty at Christmas... . she dropped a bombshell just a few minutes ago telling him that she has never told anyone this... . she got an STD years ago... . that she was very young when she lost her virginity ... . the person is no longer around her... . the message was not too clear, she is 70.  anyway, my husband has never been told this information and he is now 47... .

We have discussed her obviously a lot thinking something had to have happened many, many years ago... . so this makes sense but why at age 70 is she completely out of the blue sending her 47 year grown married son that she may have been raped many years ago and it's something she has been holding in... . we are trying to "read between the lines" from her text and we think she is referring to her own father... .

Soo  what does everyone think?  I admit I get a little leary... . just another way to get our attention... . husband believes her... . I do somewhat, makes sense why her BPD really stands out... . and yet I question her... . I admit :-(

soo help out there... . how do we approach this? Husband has no clue how to respond at all... . he is googling free or reduced mental health services for her... . this really came out of the blue... . we don't know what to do!

Thanks for any and all suggestions, advice,thoughts etc.

[apples30]

Hummmm how did the title of the post get changed?  I didn't change it. 

[apples30]

As of this evening she has not responded to the email that my husband sent her on Saturday evening... . in a brief email, he acknowledged her text message and told her he was sorry it happened and hoped she would find peace... . I don't need drag this thread on... . but we are both surprised that she hasn't commented back... . hummmm?  Any thoughts out there as to why she hasn't responded... . I guess we should be thrilled that she isn't sending him non stop emails/voicemails/text messages and we the enjoy the peace and quiet from her... . but weird, leaves a very dramatic and serious text message, husband responds and then that's it! VIOLA!  ?

[boatingwoman]

People with BPD have abuse or neglect in their background.  I personally believe many people with  BPD were sexually abused.

What can you possibly do for this woman?  She has to do it all herself.  You aren't talking to a rational person here.  You may want to go have a nice long talk with the wind because you'll get the same result and it isn't so taxing on you.

I say this from experience.  They will call, text, email, drop by etc.  you don't have to respond to each thing they do.  Pick the ones you want to respond to and if that number is zero, then great.

[Pilpel]

Apples --Maybe it's just the quiet before the storm.  Or maybe she didn't get the response she was expecting and it's taking time for her to formulate what she finds offensive about it.  But I project my own experiences here... .

I do want to add some snippet of my experience with my uBPD SIL.  My SIL is sometimes open about talking about her "problem with anger," and we have had frank conversations about how we walk on eggshells around her.  EVERY time it comes up, she brings up her childhood trauma.  She claims her parents were abusive and controlling, which is exactly how I would describe HER.  They may not have been really fun to grow up with, but I've met her parents.  They're pretty gracious, normal people.  And they're very open and honest about her mental problems.  I've been on the receiving end of SIL's crazy accusations.  So I take any claims by her that she was a victim with a grain of salt.  I think she really does believe that she was abused and that it has a connection to how she treats others.  But she sees herself as a victim ALWAYS.  The fact is that it has no connection to how she treats people now.  

Have you read Stop Walking on Eggshells?  When I first read it, I didn't understand the suggestions on how to talk to someone with BPD.  But a different relative started using reflective listening, and then I realized, "Oh, that's what SWOE was talking about."  On some level, I feel like I'd rather not deal with someone who is so difficult and unreasonable.  But I do.  And reflective listening has been very helpful.  My SIL feels better just having her feelings acknowledged.  And when her feelings are acknowledged, she seems better able to process other people's points of view.  It isn't perfect.  In the end, her perception of things is always going to get skewed.  And you can't talk away that level of narcissism.  But for as much as she drives people away by accusing people of the worst and twisting good intentions into bad, she also really genuinely wants to connect with others.  Reflective Listening has helped in soothing her emotions, and in reducing my fear and dread when I'm around her.  

[apples30]

I have the book, "Walking on Eggshells" and a couple of other books too... . they have certainly helped :-) Thanks for the suggestions... .

MIL is certainly quite the woman... . I don't think she is formulating a response back... . It's the same thing she always does... . sends a nasty email/voicemail/text message, husband doesn't  respond back... . she repeats and husband may respond back... . then she is super nice and acts as if nothing has been said or happened... . it's always been this way... . if she gets her "baby boy" to respond or even show some concern, she gets exactly what she wants... . ahhh I could go on forever. My husband and I actually got the books back out to review... . it does help, even have many pages hightlighted!

[PleaseValidate]

I have to say that my mother once "pulled this trick" on me too. We were fighting and it was one of the few times I could tell she was actually conceding in her mind that I was right. But instead of admitting it, she went into some rant about how the boy down the street molested her and she started crying. Then, because she needed to somehow make herself "the victim" and "center of attention," she continued with, "and I bought a house closer to him!"

I know she has a lot of abuse in her hx. Frankly, she talked about it almost weekly for sympathy but this was a new one. I just replied, "I'm very sorry about that but this has nothing to do with what we were talking about." Her favorite tactic when she knows I'm right but it does not fit into her schema, has always been to change the subject and/or cry about a past victimization.

One thing that REALLY bothered me here was that I was sexually abused TOO (by her bf +) and she knew it from reading my diary! The details of my abuse were actually more intense and frequent but hey, "must stop the world right this second because 'RUTH' was abused over 35 years ago."

This was upsetting on multiple levels. She was definitely seeking a "free pass" from the current argument and probably a few more. Yes, up to 76% of those w BPD have been physically and/or sexually abused. But it's not even the actual abuse that matters- it is the perception on being abuse. Real or not. In light of my own situation, I find using sexual abuse as a "sympathy ploy" extremely insulting and disturbing.

But that's always been the real problem for me to deal w.  She DOES NOT EVEN REALIZE she is using it that way! No insight. Ever.

My favorite word and yet least favorite state of being: ANOSOGNOSIA!

[HarposGal]

They are experts at dangling a carrot... . real or fake.

Could it be the trauma that lead to her condition, sure. But she is still using it for attention.

After this many years her skills at finding something that will force you to react are probably quite good... . and this one is a doozy! Doesn't matter if it's a borderline scam... . it's still an opening to get her mental help under the guise of 'rape counseling'.