Newbie... Some Intro and, could use help readying to leave (w/out H knowing)

[HopefulOne44]

Greetings to All...

Newbie posting here... .  

I have been reading on the forum since March 2013 tho' and have finally decided that this is the place for me.

If you'll forgive me, I don't want to repeat myself so if you'd like some basics about my situation and why I'm here it is in my intro thread ("Introducing myself... . " 

For those that don't care to read it, I'll share here that I'm a 49 yo wife of an uBPDh(44) and we have two wonderful sons 7 & 9 (in Mar). 

The issues my H and I have, have been evident pretty much since the beginning of our r/s.  We have been together for 15 year, married for 11.  We met at work, moved in after 3 months dating and were married about 4 years after that.  Neither of us had long-term significant relationships previous to ours.

The most notable of issues is that of my husband's rages and how he treats me when he is upset.

For a long time the rages were directed mostly at events not involving me -- i.e. someone cut him off on the road, someone treated him in a condescending way at work, someone was riding up on him (too close) with their grocery basket at the store. 

I have done things that have upset him from the beginning, but he didn't handle them by raging as much as by going into a very dark place where he was brooding in an icy cold silence. 

Because he didn't offer up anything about what had happened to upset him - even after I asked "Is everything ok?  You seem upset... . " it was very confusing, unnerving and I felt kind of 'off balance' emotionally... . Insecure. 

I discovered over time that the reasons for his upsets would come out hours, days or even weeks later after the incident... . I would find out either after my persistent questioning, or, in a volcanic explosion of emotion. 

For the vast majority of our marriage I wasn't entirely certain what was happening with our communication (why there were so many irritations and blow ups), but I knew I didn't like it and I tried everything in my power to do what I could on my part to fix things. 

I do know what kept me 'working at it' and that was that  I thought it was a matter of learning how to better communicate and learning about each other.  I felt that once we really got to know, understand and trust each other, these issues would resolve.

I realize now that more time together will *not* fix what is going on because my H is not in a place emotionally to work on 'understanding each other better' or 'communicating better'.   The fact that there has never been ANY resolution to the multitude of issues over the years is another thing that has tipped me off to there being issues beyond my control.

My husband wants me to feel and perceive things differently than I do.  In short, to be someone that I'm not.  I tell him this but it is not acceptable to him.  I won't go into the insanity that characterizes our discussions and vastly different ways of perceiving *everything*.  Suffice it to say that I'd be willing to bet the ranch that he has BPD.  And thus that is why I am here.

There are some good moments... And of course many things I do love about my H, but even he agrees that I do more that irritates him than makes him feel good.  "I hate you, Don't leave me" seems to be a good descriptor of our marital dynamic.

So, barring some kind of miracle or divine intervention, I can't see that there is any way to resolve our issues (meaning his unhappiness with so much of what I say, do and think).

Our most recent heart-to-heart (if you will) the other night, I asked him ~ knowing that we are (I am) pretty much at the end of our road ~ the following:

His ideas on how we can resolve this issue and he can't think of anything (or, "just go down to the courthouse and get divorce papers).

What he loved about me.  He took a long pause and said "I don't know... . I just know I love you" (tho' later he came up with a list of some nice things).

How I am suppose to feel about (what am I supposed to do with) what he thinks of me and how he treats me and he says he doesn't know.

I asked him how long would be a reasonable time to 'get over' my feelings about something nasty he's said to me... He has no idea (but 2 hours or 2 days is definitely 'forever' in his mind).

Also, I thought I should note that I have been thru enough cycles (roller coaster riding!) to see that that even when there are moments (rarely 'days at a time' where things are good, they will always come around to an awful rage or experience with my H.

I told him once recently that I could look around the room and that just about anything that I would set my eyes on has some kind of negative experience attached to or associated with it.  Nearly every special day or moment is marred by his foul mood, attitude or raging.

Presently I truly am in 'survival mode' because his rages are on the verge of being completely out of control.   Things have escalated over time, altho' slowly.

Two of the biggest rages ever happened in just the past 2 weeks (or less).  It is scary.  And one of them was in front of the kids and scared them to the point of fleeing to me and crying.  One of them even said "don't talk to my mom that way!"... Thankfully he doesn't direct most of his rages *to* the kids... But, he does rage around them.  This is another reason - even my most important reason - for planning to leave.  I don't want my boys to see this treatment and think that it's acceptable.  I don't want them to live in fear or on eggshells (so far we are ok that way... as much as you can be 'ok' in this kind of situation). 

My feeling is if he REALLY does love the boys, he would be able to restrain himself enough to rage AWAY from them... I would think he'd love them more than hate me.  I do believe he loves them, but clearly he cannot control what is going on with him.

One last thing I should add that he has smoked weed since he was 16. 

6 mos after we were dating he told me he smoked it (after we'd moved in together).  I have had issues with it over the years mostly due to the fact that when he 'comes down' it is horrible.  He of course disagrees that it affects him this way.   I think thru much of our marriage, I thought that weed was the issue... That coming down off it was what was causing the rages & problems... . But, the BPD has been there all along, with weed (highs & lows) only exacerbating things emotionally.

When he's not smoking/clean, he is much better... . He has been off it for about 3 weeks now but even off it, we still have our 'issues', he still gets moody, upset, treats me like crap & yes, rages.  It depends on how stressed he is and what the trigger is.  Caffeine/coffee affects him almost more than weed does.  Oh the rages on caffeine! :O

Anyway! 

As to why I am here... . I have done lots of reading of posts & the resource material, but haven't really come up with any specifics for how one manages the ending stages of a marriage to a BPD partner, when you as the 'non' is going to be leaving.  I have no qualms about leaving other than the practical aspects of it (financial readiness and preparation for the future for the boys and I), and of course the emotional aspect for the boys (I'll be trying to keep this as low key and positive as possible). 



I would WELCOME H leaving.  That would be such a blessing.  But I'm going to have to do it, and truth be told I am nervous not so much how he will take it (as in being sad) but if he will react in a volatile way. 

I need to prepare in secret, if you will because once he realizes this is going to happen I don't think he will react well.

He has suspicions (unfounded- really it is so ridiculous... not that I say that to him) that I might be cheating on him, at times, so he may 'go there' when he realizes we are divorcing.

If anyone can offer their experience in how they readied themselves to leave without their partner knowing... And, how they dealt with the situation in the mean time (avoiding conflict etc... ) I would really appreciate it.

The biggest hurdle for me right now, aside from readying things, is how to avoid sex. 

He can't understand that how he has treated me (especially considering the cumulative effect) puts a damper on my libido.  I recently asked him "why do you want to have sex with that person you described (ranting for 2 hours about all I do that upsets him)?  His response:  "I married them"... .   He said later that he didn't mean that he felt I should be obligated to because we're married - despite his treatment of me, but he still really never said how it was that he still wanted to have sex even tho' I am this terrible person.

My feelings have shifted so much, especially the last few months, that I can't even make myself have sex.  I feel like I'm betraying myself.  But, I do feel like I will do it if I really have to, if that is all I can do to keep things from blowing up in my face.

I haven't seen many posts where others are feeling repulsed by sex with their BPD partner (as a result of how they have been mistreated).  Does anyone else feel this way?  What does your SO say about why you don't want to (or about how you've been avoiding it)?  How do you get around this?  I'm feeling like there is no way around it.  Not until I'm out.  I just basically say "it is hard to feel desirable, sexy (whatever) when I know you feel the way you do about me"... . Of course to this, he says "what way?" (yes, insane, I know) to which I say "what you ranted about for 2 hours in the early morning last week.  All those things you said about me that you don't like.  The person you described."  That usually ends it...

When I start warming up in terms of (at least acting like I feel) more comfortable and happy-looking, he for some reason gets the idea that I want sex now.  So he makes remarks about taking my shirt off (for him) etc... . I'm thinking tho' that nothing has changed & wondering how he can even think that I want to be intimate when there's nothing that has changed about how he feels about me.  OY.

I welcome any & all comments and/or questions... . I especially would love to hear from those who are leaving or who have left and *how* they did (specifics of how you prepared) or are doing it (what you are doing now to get ready), while you SO doesn't know.  And of course how to deal with the sex issue.

I'm so grateful to have found this site & I look forward to posting and reading quite a bit in the coming months or possibly years.

Blessings to All ~

Serenity (pen name)

[schwing]

Hi Serenity and  

I discovered over time that the reasons for his upsets would come out hours, days or even weeks later after the incident... . I would find out either after my persistent questioning, or, in a volcanic explosion of emotion.  

For the vast majority of our marriage I wasn't entirely certain what was happening with our communication (why there were so many irritations and blow ups), but I knew I didn't like it and I tried everything in my power to do what I could on my part to fix things.  

I don't know if this is helpful to you now, but two circumstances, off the top of my head, which I find often trigger our BPD loved ones, which are not intuitively obvious to most of us, are as follows:

(1) after they feel particularly intimate or connected with us.  Feeling of intimacy for people with BPD (pwBPD) often trigger their disordered feelings (e.g., fear of abandonment) soon thereafter.  So for example, after a time when you feel very connected, or on some special occasion, an anniversary, etc... I find that it is predictable that soon after such occasions, they will also act out.  Why this is, is a whole other discussion, but that has been my observation.

A strategy to deal with this is to minimize special occasions.  And to deal with them in a predictable but formal manner.  "Chaperones" if they can be arranged, may also be helpful.

(2) sometimes, they will be triggered by something completely unrelated to what we say or do... . but will then find a reason to pin the blame onto us.  Sometimes, if you're careful to notice, they will approach you in a stimulated (but not obviously agitated) state, and practically start pushing triggering buttons (which they've learned of us so well over the years) in order to provoke a reaction out of us.  And then, they will react to our reaction.

To deal with these situations, you'll need to learn to spot them early and instead of engaging in the "button pushing" to excuse yourself or flee from the situation as swiftly as possible.  It might be worthwhile to establish a "safe house" away from the home.

I do know what kept me 'working at it' and that was that  I thought it was a matter of learning how to better communicate and learning about each other.  I felt that once we really got to know, understand and trust each other, these issues would resolve.

I realize now that more time together will *not* fix what is going on because my H is not in a place emotionally to work on 'understanding each other better' or 'communicating better'.   The fact that there has never been ANY resolution to the multitude of issues over the years is another thing that has tipped me off to there being issues beyond my control.  

This is an aspect that I think is very hard to accept: that our BPD loved ones lack emotional resources that we take for granted.

My husband wants me to feel and perceive things differently than I do.  In short, to be someone that I'm not.  I tell him this but it is not acceptable to him.  I won't go into the insanity that characterizes our discussions and vastly different ways of perceiving *everything*.  Suffice it to say that I'd be willing to bet the ranch that he has BPD.  And thus that is why I am here.

He wants you to feel and perceive things differently.  I wonder if how he wants you to feel and perceive differently sheds light on how he feels and perceives things differently.

He wants you to be someone that you're not.  I wonder if you realize to what degree he is someone he is not.

How I am suppose to feel about (what am I supposed to do with) what he thinks of me and how he treats me and he says he doesn't know.

I asked him how long would be a reasonable time to 'get over' my feelings about something nasty he's said to me... He has no idea (but 2 hours or 2 days is definitely 'forever' in his mind).

I've found that when pwBPD have sufficient (emotional) distance, they can demonstrate a great capacity for empathy.  However, when their own emotional states dominate their attention, they can only focus on their own distress.

My feeling is if he REALLY does love the boys, he would be able to restrain himself enough to rage AWAY from them... I would think he'd love them more than hate me.  I do believe he loves them, but clearly he cannot control what is going on with him.

If you assume that a pwBPD is capable of putting other people's (even their own children's) emotional welfare ahead of their own, then you are not accepting the limit of a pwBPD's emotional resources.

As to why I am here... . I have done lots of reading of posts & the resource material, but haven't really come up with any specifics for how one manages the ending stages of a marriage to a BPD partner, when you as the 'non' is going to be leaving.  I have no qualms about leaving other than the practical aspects of it (financial readiness and preparation for the future for the boys and I), and of course the emotional aspect for the boys (I'll be trying to keep this as low key and positive as possible).  

IMHO, the practical preparations are the easy part.  The hard part is the emotional aspect.  Even though your situation has escalated to where it is now, I would expect you to be emotionally attached to him in ways you don't expect.  And so I recommend gathering up as much support for yourself as possible (i.e., therapy, understanding friends/family, etc... ).  :)on't expect your H to make it in any way easy for you.  Quite the contrary, unless he already has someone in mind to replace you, he will drag this out as long as possible because to pwBPD, they will perceive separation and divorce as a kind of "abandonment."

He has suspicions (unfounded- really it is so ridiculous... not that I say that to him) that I might be cheating on him, at times, so he may 'go there' when he realizes we are divorcing.

Here's the thing, he has spent most of your marriage *imagining* that you intend to leave/abandon him.  The minute you demonstrate any cues that tip your hand, he will already be primed to spot those cues.  

Any in case, I hope some of what I wrote is helpful to you.

You might also consider posting in the Family law, divorce, and custody section of the forums, I'm sure there are some members who will give you good advice there on what to expect as things progress.

You are in the right place.

Best wishes, Schwing

[RecycledNoMore]

Hi hopefullone:)

Just wanted to let you know  you are not alone...

I can relate to alot of your post,the raging, the unresolved conflicts,weed, bloody weed, Im glad you are here, I cant give much helpful advice about leaving as I wasnt married, and had no kids/ financial ties to the ex, all I can say is, be prepared, for everything and anything,plan your exit with military precision, important documents, precious items,your childrens belongings,guard them, hide them whatever, all these things will become ' fair game' you may think im being overly dramatic, but read some posts of members here, you may be headed for a shtstorm, so please protect yourself.

Youve come to the right place, welcome.

[HopefulOne44]

Many thanks to you both ~ Winston and recycledNOmore.  I'm grateful to know I'm not alone in this, and also for the very thoughtful  & helpful comments and suggestions.  I have much more I'd like to write but for now H is sleeping in bedroom so I'm (not to sound ungrateful) stuck w/my boys wii gamepad :P ...

Oh... I was about to say I'll be able to write at length tomorrow after work but just remembered I have my first appmt w/my T at that time.  This was one thing I'd wanted to mention in my opening post.b  This is a T I obtained via my work benefits - an "employee assistance program" session.  Well I get 3 per 6 mos and not sure about the quality of provider but it's better than nothing.  At the very least I want H to know there is a 3rd party involved.  I scheduled this shortly after experiencing on of H's most recent mega-rages.  I did it under the petense of 'figuring out what is going on with me, that I upset my H so much'.  Of course I'm open and have been as many here I'm sure have been, to learning about my part in this but I'm going so I can obtain help in managing things for the boys and I until I'm prepared to make the split, and, ideas on how to go about it.  I'm done and as I mentioned, nothing will change unless there is some kind of miracle.

RecycledNOmore, thank you in particular for the suggestion not to bel lax in my preparations.  This advice stuck a chord.  I don't like to fill my head with scarey 'what if' scenarios but I don't care to -and shouldn't put my head in the sand either.

Again thanks to you both.  I'll respond asap and also share about my visit w/T as well.  I'm very excited about it.  H is nervous they will tell meto leave him.  I told him that I doubt that but if they did they would at least have to give some insight as to 'why' and I said tha that info alone could be very helpful.  H did'nt say anything more.

Ok... . Nuff for now.  So much for my short TY post Lol!

Blessings... .

[HopefulOne44]

Oh heavens please tell me how I can edit my posts.  If I can't do that, my apologies for the poor spelling and grammer... . and crazy mistakes... Yikes! *redface*

[PhoenixRising15]

Hopeful,

IMHO, be wary. If you are talking about divorce, that might tip him off and make him worse.  Clear your browser history, or use private browsing mode so he doesn't accidentally stumble across this site.

Get as much emotional support as you can.  Write everything bad that you can down RIGHT NOW and put it in a safe place, where he cannot find it.  If you are anything like me, you will have trouble remembering the bad when you leave.  You need to hear it from yourself.  I'd even suggest maybe making a video and leaving it on a thumb drive at a friend or family members or in a safe deposit box, with a password on it.  I wish I had a video of myself crying for hours over the pain now, so it wouldn't be so hard to remember and I wouldn't feel pressured to go back.

Read the articles here.  They are a treasure trove of information.  And read the staying board for tips on how you might make it tolerable in the short run.

Best wishes.

[Perfidy]

Hello HO44, I hope you are doing well. I know how it feels to have an abusive partner. I read your post a couple times. I didn't see any thing about physical abuse. Has he abused you physically? Please answer this to yourself. I know how hard this can be to admit for several reasons. First, it's nobody's business but your own. Second, loyalty. Third, shame. Not necessarily in that order. The person you are describing is an abuser. Abuses  you, abuses drugs, abuses himself. Generally this type of person engages in physical abuse as well. You plan of slipping out the back indicates physical violence has happened. Trying to understand him at this point will not serve you at all. Right now you just gotta focus on you and the kiddos.

If he hasn't abused you physically and you are confident that he will not, just lay it out to him that you are choosing your free agency. You know your situation better than anyone else. Of course threatening divorce and doing it are two different things. If the threat has been made more than twice it won't even be heard the third time. If that is the case, simply file for divorce and hand him the walking papers. Reality check.

[HopefulOne44]

Thank you all for your replies... . My apologies for not responding sooner... I'm having a hard time finding time to write during the week.  I'm being very careful not to make it known that I'm even looking at this site... And lots of typing usually makes him at least question what I'm up to.  I do want to say that my H hasn't been physically abusive... Not w/me or the kids... . Were that to happen there is no question divorce papers would be served asap.  I am afraid of how he'll react once it comes down to the moment where I'm able to tell him that I feel this is the only option for us both to be happy.  Like it was said, saying it and doing it are 2 different things... I haven't ever threatened it... I'm not in a position to react that way with him.  It would only infuriate him & I think it would be the end of things certainly.  Not that I'm not heading in that direction but I want to do it safely and really plan so that it is as manageable as possible. 

Thanks so much for your concern - all of you.  This is a wonderful board.  We have a long weekend coming up and weekends are my time for typing because I usually make time to get to the library.  I hope to respond more at length to everyone's insightful, thoughtful advice and comments.

Serenity

[nevaeh]

I have a lot of thoughts to offer but don't have time at the moment.  I want to make sure I mark the thread for future posting, but also just to offer a big virtual hug to you.

Hang in there... .

[Turkish]

Hi HopefulOne44, I hope you are doing ok.

He can't understand that how he has treated me (especially considering the cumulative effect) puts a damper on my libido.  I recently asked him "why do you want to have sex with that person you described (ranting for 2 hours about all I do that upsets him)?

I had this same issue with mine. We always felt she was more like the man, and I was an emotionally connected, even feminine in my feelings... . probably growing up with a single mom. This is despite that on the outside, she is petite and cute, and I am large and manly. No matter.

I threw this out again the other night, and she replied, "I always told you to stand up to me!" No matter what, it's our fault. It helps me as a man to reverse the roles in my mind, as if I were the woman and she were the verbally, emotionally abusive and constantly needy man. As a man, I totally sympathize with you. No matter how attractive on the outside someone is, they are ugly as sin when they are abusing you.

[heartandwhole]

Hi HopefulOne44,

Just want to add my welcome to you.      I think the sex issue is really tough, and I know in your position, I would react exactly the same. 

Here is some information that might be helpful in your preparations:  Leaving a Partner with Borderline Personality Disorder

And you might consider checking out the Leaving Board: Family law, divorce and custody  where members will have similar experiences to share with you, too.

I'm looking forward to hearing how your first T session went – keep us posted!

heartandwhole 

[HopefulOne44]

nevaeh, Turkish and Heartandwhole ~ gosh I'm overwhelmed by such lovely and caring posts... .  I am doing fine... I did have my 1st visit w/my T and it was great... .  Altho' I really don't have any tools to help me thru this I do have a confidante, and, someone that is validating my feelings.  I am not crazy after all LOL!  I have my next on this coming Monday & am really looking forward to it... ... . 

Anyway, H is about to arrive home so I must sign off... I can't wait until this weekend to respond to all your very thoughtful comments...

My heart - and virtual hugs! - go out to all of you!  I sure landed in the right place... .  I feel so very blessed. 

~ Serenity (pen name)

[RecycledNoMore]

Hi Serenity, just checking to see if your ok?

Am happy youve begun seeing  T, me too, helped alot to get things off my chest.

[HopefulOne44]

You are so sweet to check on me, recycledNomore ... .

I am fine... . Unfortunately all the libraries were closed due to a furlough...   I do believe they will be open tomorrow tho' so I might be able to get over there sometime if I can work it around H game (watching football) time w/his dad.  Thanks again for caring... Hope to update this thread soon! 

~S