My mother...

[delaney]

I'm here needing a place where I can process my relationship with my mom. I need to vent and to think through the entire situation and decide if I should cut her out of my life. It's complicated though (is it ever simple?) I am the oldest of a large family and my 17 year old sister lives with me. Cutting off my mother may mean that she tries to drag my sister back home and may mean that my mother ends what little financial support she provides for my sister, which is really minimal but really helps. The main thing is that my sister is on my mom's cell phone plan. Last year was a tough year for my husband and I and we're still recovering and if it was just a question of how well we could afford having my sister live here, we would send her home. But I basically look at it as us rescuing her form an abusive situation. She absolutely loves living here away from our mother and would be devastated at being sent home.

My mother's biggest issue with me is that I moved away from her. I got married when I was 19, partly in desperation to escape my parents' home, but luckily to an absolutely wonderful man. At the time, he moved to be closer to me and we had two kids right away. Like I literally got pregnant a month after we were married, which thrilled my mother who loves babies. #2 was born 18 months later, and when that was 9 months old, my husband lost his job and he had an offer from a company in his hometown. We decided to move and that was the first time my mother threatened to kill herself. She carried around a hand gun in her purse and held it, loaded, against her head and (in her words) "prayed for the strength to pull the trigger". Yes, because I was moving out of state. She couldn't seem to comprehend that we were moving because it was best for us at the time and that it didn't have anything to do with her. Before my husband lost his job, we had been house hunting, which she claimed was an elaborate ruse to throw her off of our insidious plans to move. I kind of laugh about it, but honestly, that's what she thought at the time. Still, I'm convinced she's going to kill herself some day, and I don't want to be the one that pushes her over the edge. I don't deserve to have to deal with that.

Since then, both my sisters and all five of my brothers have moved up here (one has since moved to a city a few hours away in the opposite direction of my mother and another just left for boot camp a couple weeks ago). Why? The town my parents live in doesn't have a lot of opportunities, and my parents don't help anyone go to college or anything and I live in a really low cost of living area. What we make of our lives is on us. So we help each other out as best we can. I've had almost everyone crashing on my couch at one point or another. Sometimes for as long as a year, sometimes as little as a week. So now I'm surrounded in family and she has no one but her father and husband (my parents divorced after I left the home and both are remarried). It's kind of sad, I will admit that. But I can't help but blame her as well. She moved us to that town when I was 14, and I begged her not to. She moved me away from all my friends and everyone that mattered to me outside of my family. It was a horrible town that none of us liked and all of us have left it as soon as we could. And she wants to act like she has the right to tell me where to live? Um, no.

And honestly, I'm a hell of a lot easier to live near than she is. I don't guilt trip people, or keep score when I do nice things for them. I don't resent everyone for whatever they have going on in their lives, I don't keep tabs on everyone or gossip behind everyone's back (even posting this stuff on here is slightly uncomfortable for me, and I've had to rewrite this post a couple times). I don't attach strings to everything I do, and I don't make every little thing that everyone does about me. My mom does all this and more.  She has no idea just how damn exhausting it is just to be in her life. And I'm not sure I can do it anymore... .

The last three trips she made up here have been utterly exhausting and depressing and have had a bunch of drama during them. The last trip she made was over the summer to drop my sister off here and she left my sister's car up here. The car was supposed to be in working order and it's quite old and they've done several things to it but nothing out of the ordinary of what you'd expect buying a car this old from someone. My mother seems to think every time it needs so much as a new air filter, that it's the end of the freaking world. She regularly says things like, "That car makes me want to bash my head against a brick wall" and "That car was the worst decision we ever made" (and if you knew some of the decisions she's made, you'd be rolling your eyes so hard you couldn't see straight.) She guilt trips my sister about it, blaming her for everything that goes wrong, and when my sister suggests getting rid of it, just to stop the endless bhiting about it, my mother berates her for being ungrateful.

Anyway, it's broken down and has been since they got it up here, and my sister was supposed to have come up here with the car working and a drivers license. Neither of these things happened. Her birth certificate was somehow lost and my mother blames my sister, even though my mother has a long history of losing people's important documents. She claims she gave it to my sister and then acts like my sister lost it intentionally just to spite my mother. When she got back home she got a new one and sent a bunch of hateful texts to my sister who never once denied she was the one who lost it and apologized over and over for what my mom was having to go through. She said things like, "You don't care, you are so selfish and careless and you aren't the ones being inconvenienced. I feel like I'm being tortured for hours in here." Yes, sitting in the waiting room of a government building is akin to being tortured for hours. No, she wasn't joking.

Anyway, my sister is turning 18 in March and I want that damn car fixed. So I tried to initiate a conversation about what should be done about the car.

My mother's first reaction was to go on and on and on about how many hours she's working and how many bills she needs to pay. I basically ignore all this because I've heard about nothing else for years now. It's white noise at this point. I try to redirect the conversation back to the car, so my mother talks about how ungrateful and selfish my sister is. My sister isn't perfect, by any means but she's really not that ungrateful or selfish. She's clueless as hell and sometimes doesn't realize what she's asking for but in other areas of her life, she acts like she's asking for this huge favor when really, she wants a ride to a friend's house or something. She has this lack of perspective that I think is understandable given my mother's instability. Besides, your kids are supposed to want things from you! It's not unreasonable. Next my mother tried to ask for a bunch of impossible things. She wanted us to take the car to a mechanic but she wanted to know ahead of time everything that was wrong with it. She wanted us to tow it ourselves by tying it to a working vehicle and having someone steer the car while it was being pulled... . while there was snow and ice all over the roads. Then she attacked, calling me selfish, unfeeling and callous. She said I use her and some day, if I ever got a soul, I would feel sorry for how I've treated her. I wish I could say this didn't hurt, didn't infuriate me. But they do. It's just so unfair. Selfish? Everything I do is for other people, including her under aged daughter that she won't lift a finger for! And unlike her, I don't resent anyone for all I do for them. I use her? That's hilarious. For what exactly? She can't be used by anyone because she won't do anything for anyone. How I've treated her? I wouldn't dream of saying the things she says to me. I asked her to take care of something that she said she'd do that's her responsibility to begin with. I know, I'm such an ogre.  

I basically stopped responding to her texts at this point. At one point she said, "I still have a need to vent and let you know how I feel about certain things. But I feel like I'm talking to nobody as it is." Her need to vent and say mean things to people is seen by her as perfectly reasonable. But anything anyone else says is anger is brought up years and years later and held against them. I waited 2 and a half hours before responding, "Continue. This is very enlightening." She did respond, with this giant guilt trip which included the words, "This musing I'm doing is not hateful toward you or anyone. Just stuff I think about. When I think. I try not to think." Seriously, this is the hit she says all the time.

So now we aren't talking. I did update my profile picture on facebook the next day and I was making a funny face in it. Not an angry face or a disgusted face or anything like that. Just a funny face, which I took months ago, but at the time my facebook app wasn't working so I couldn't update it. But yesterday, I finally got around to it. I should point out that I don't facebook much so it doesn't mean a lot to me. Anyway, she commented on there, "Is that because of our conversation? I feel the same way." I don't know what "way" she feels but I was pissed. She knows I'm a very private person and I DO NOT EVER do public drama on facebook. I don't vaguebook (where you post passive aggressive hit but don't name names), I don't argue about politics or religion or anything. In fact, I have posted more in the past two months than ever before because I just had a baby so I was sharing some pictures.

And that's part of what makes this hard. My mom adores babies. She's actually really good with them. Of course she is. They are people who love you unconditionally, right? They don't notice your flaws. To your baby, you are beautiful, perfect, you smell amazing and their world revolves around you (granted, you are the giver of food so that's a big part of that). My mother, deep down, despises all her children for not staying babies forever. Can I actually cut this woman out of her grandchildrens' lives? I don't know. My oldest two are 11 and 12 years old, they already know her and they can choose to have a relationship with her or not when they get older. But my third is brand new. If I make this decision now, she'll never know her. But if I don't, what am I teaching her about how people deserve to be treated?

[delaney]

Heh... . that's a little random. I can say "bhiting" but not the s-word?

[Sitara]

Welcome delaney.  I can relate to so much of your story.  When we bought a house, we were punished because we chose one while my uBPD mom was on vacation and she didn't get to help pick it out.  She accused us of moving away solely because we wanted to escape our families.  She overreacts to small things and constantly worries about the worst case scenario.  She's always made me feel like I was just an inconvenience. 

pwBPD seem to love other people's babies.  My mom loved my oldest son.  She actually baby sat him for a couple years before I cut that off.  He was just another child to enmesh.  She could make him do whatever she wanted to do.  She got to play with him for a little while and send him back home when he got difficult.  She'd expect him for overnights at her convenience, but not when we needed her to.  She'd take him out so people could see her being a "good grandma."  She would do whatever she wanted with him and ignore anything we asked her to do.

Can I actually cut this woman out of her grandchildrens' lives? I don't know. My oldest two are 11 and 12 years old, they already know her and they can choose to have a relationship with her or not when they get older. But my third is brand new. If I make this decision now, she'll never know her. But if I don't, what am I teaching her about how people deserve to be treated?

Your mother does not get an automatic pass to have a relationship with your kids just because she gave birth to you.  What are you teaching all your kids (and your sister) if you don't allow your mother to have a relationship with your baby?  You're teaching them that family doesn't get a pass to treat you like dirt.  Everyone needs to treat you with respect.  You're teaching them that it's okay to feel sad for the pain in your mom's life, but no one else but your mom is responsible to fix it.  You're teaching them that you, as both an aunt and a mom, are watching out for their best interests.  Your sister sees that even though her mom isn't there for her, you are.  And your kids see that you are going above and beyond by taking your sister into your home to help her.

You need to worry about what is best for the family under your care.  Not all decisions in life are easy and this is unfortunately one of the hardest ones I think that we as children of pwBPD have to deal with.  I'd encourage you to keep posting and checking out the tools on this site.  We're here to listen and help out as we can.

[StarStruck]

Hi thanks for sharing... .

I haven't seen my mom for yrs but have sent cards. So you could say very low contact (VLC).

My mom was standoffish then I stopped making up the shortful. Plenty of nastiness from her said over the yrs by the things she done and the things she hasn't done.

Then over the last few VCL yrs Ive been more active in distancing.

I don't want this complex mess involving in my unit for the future so I am trying to stear myself through the same decisions you are considering. Its difficult as it's the rest of the family and the dynamic of that.

I have come to the understanding that this will happen but How=I need to make a few more key decisions. When=that will roll out from when I'm ready. I'm taking this very slowly but I feel I have no choice now but to take (MY) life by the balls.

As painful as it is, whatever decision I could have ever made on this would never have changed the truth of what she is (sadly). I have found not seeing her a great thing as it has given me a chance to consider the past, any abuse. When she was in my life more, I'd remember stuff but brush it off. It's given me time to heal and see it for what it is.

All the best with this. It's not nice (slight understatement of the friggin century) any of it but like I've said on here before on a post... . When I took a stand with her, life showed it's colors.  

[delaney]

I'm glad VLC is working for you. I may do that. I'm weary of the guilt trips. It's her primary way of interacting with everyone, often passive aggressively masked as a joke. "You never call me, I forgot how you looked! !" She acts like her damn phone doesn't dial out. Everyone else is required to call her but when we do, it's never good enough. When she comes to town, she doesn't ask people to spend time with her and I know it's as simple as calling my brother up and saying, "Hey, are you free Saturday? I'll be in town and I'd love to spend time with you." But because she stays with me, my brothers assume we're busy and they don't plan anything. Then my mother flips out because they didn't automatically drop everything they were doing to be available for whenever she wants to do something. And it's not like we do much lately because her finances have been so bad. We mostly hang around the house and in 2011 she was on so many drugs she fell asleep in the middle of their visits. So they were bored and they left and she was offended.

Last summer, she was still an hour out of town and found out my brothers had other plans for the next night (keep in mind she never told them she wanted to spend time with them and she was going to be in town all week) and she started crying and raging in the car, and texting me repeatedly. I was baffled that she was trying to drag me into drama that had nothing to do with me before she even got to town. I put my phone down and simply walked away and ignored it all, and my sister (confirmed by my stepfather) says she ranted that "everyone" was ignoring her. A common thing is that when she's mad at one of her kids, suddenly, "everyone" is guilty of whatever that one person's crime is.

[delaney]

Can't find the edit button. It was 2012 she was drugged, probably on hydrocodone among other things, but she won't admit it of course.

[StarStruck]

Cheers yea it's what's working so far.

You sound in thick of it . Have a good look around this website at all the tools and stuff on offer here.

My Mom is the one to start the LC & push pull bullpoo. You're situ may be different with your Mom wanting more of your time therefore your decisions may be different in practice to mine. Mine happened naturally, if that makes sense - I haven't had to tell her outright about the VLC. I gradually pulled away more.

Some people in a situ whereby they consider telling her, then maybe helping her to therapy. Or temporarily going NC to recover themselves then starting back off again with relationship. Some people will go NC then back to VLC or LC.

Putting up boundaries is a difficult thing to initiate and stick to and lot of the members, myself included find it a challenge* FOG thing occurs - Fear, Obligation, Guilt - sorry you may know all this already.

Lots of experienced people on here & they will kindly chip in when/if you have anymore questions.

*But boundaries can be done!

[delaney]

I find it hilarious that you asked your mother to schedule her suicide for a more convenient time. Seriously, I find that dealing with my mother brings out my morbid side. There's only so many times she can threaten to kill herself before I start finding the humor in it. One time one of my sisters and I were talking and laughing about it and saying that our goal is simply not to be the last person who pissed her off and therefore feels the most responsible for her killing herself. My sister's friend was shocked and joked that we were both going to hell. I said that I've talked her off the ledge too many times to get that worked up about it. Some day, I think she'll do it and that will be tragic, but I've already started to deal with it emotionally. I should have simply called 911 on her ages ago so that she would be forced to get help if these were real suicide threats or she'd never do it again if it was some manipulative game.

[Legacymaker]

Wow Keezie,

Love that dialogue!  I can only hope to be able to filter my conversations with such grace!

[delaney]

I don't think I'll ever get to that point. I don't think I want to. Do you ever feel like you're just a whipping boy for her to dump on emotionally?

I'm so angry right now. My mother called my sister (the one living with me) today and after what seemed like a very awkward conversation my mother asked if she was alone. My sister said that she was (I was in the room) and my mother proceeded to tell my sister how everything was my fault and how unreasonable I was. I went through all our text conversation reading only my texts without reading hers to see what I could have said that could possibly be interpreted as unreasonable. There was nothing and I'm angry all over again. She said I was too emotional. The hypocrisy makes me ill. I can't deal with someone like that. I used to be able to put our fights behind us faster but I've just had to deal with too many and I'm done. I no longer want a close relationship with her. I think when this is all said and done, I'll go low contact or very low contact. I won't initiate contact, I'll try to turn down any gifts she sends and I'll see her as little as possible. I read that post above about Medium Chill and I think I can learn to do that, though it will offend her and she'll hate it. In the past I've tried something like that, staying calm and collected during a fight and she couldn't stand it. She kept provoking, becoming more and more unhinged till I lost control and screamed at her. It's like she had some kind of sick need to make me feel as out of control as she was. I've watched her do the same thing to my sister very recently. She couldn't stand to see someone else handling a situation calmly when she was feeling so upset about it so she kept threatening my sister till she found something that made my sister cry and beg. Seeing my sister emotionally distressed enabled her to calm down. How completely effed up... .

My sister is graduating high school this spring. My father and his wife are coming up along with my adopted sister (who has a horrible relationship with my mother) and my mother and her husband are coming as well. I'm dreading it. The last time my entire family was in town was my brother's wedding. It was horrible and took me weeks to recover from emotionally. I allowed my mother to drag me into her drama for the sake of shielding my brother from it on the weekend of his wedding. It was awful, exhausting. My mother expects to stay at my house usually and there is no way in the world I want her here. She needs to be a damn grownup and get a hotel.

[delaney]

My mother expected her children to meet her needs at all times. We came into this world with a job: To fulfill her emotionally. And her needs are endless. She must feel loved and accepted and needed and wanted at all times, completely unconditionally, no matter what her behavior or the circumstances. Obviously we have been dismal failures.

When I was younger, she would get angry if she started cleaning the house and we didn't jump up to help her right away. She would get more and more agitated and stomp and slam around the house till she lost it and yelled at us. She never just asked for help, we were supposed to anticipate her needs. To this day, I get nervous when my husband is cleaning up the house without me. I've gotten a lot better though and I allow it to happen. But I always notice it. My sister (I'm going to number my siblings for the sake of these posts... . S3 is my youngest sister, she lives with me) gets nervous around me frequently because she expects me to have needs that I'm not expressing but will punish her for not meeting. I am pretty blunt and have addressed this with her. "If I want something, I'll ask for it. If I don't ask for it, I'm to blame if I don't get it." S3 said, "I'm just not used to people being like that."

During a recent visit, S3 was sitting at my computer with my kids while they messed around on a video game. My mother began bringing luggage in from the car to the room next to where the computer was. She didn't pass by my computer desk to do this and they didn't notice her bringing stuff in. I have no doubt my sister would have jumped up to help if she had but as it was, my mother finally snapped and yelled at her for being so selfish and thoughtless. My kids were there, and wide-eyed. Their other grandmother (my MIL, an awesome person they see all the time) would never have acted like that. My sister went to unload the rest of the luggage and my mother berated her for being so moody. It simply doesn't even enter into her mind to say, "Hey, can I get some help with this?" Why the hell NOT? What the hell is wrong with her? Apparently she's supposed to be the center of attention. It's simply unthinkable that no one noticed what she was up to, so naturally if no one volunteered to help, it was a deliberate snub.

It's the same thing with my brothers. She can't call them up and ask to see them. They are supposed to know when she'll get to town (without her telling them) and they're supposed to be available to spend time with her at her whim till she leaves. If they don't, she'll freak out because, "If D (my father) was coming to town, they would do XYZ that they won't do for me." Yes, it's true they'd rather spend time with her. Gee, I wonder why.

I was the oldest and I very quickly learned what was expected and did my best to meet her needs. As a result, I was praised a lot. I used to think this was our relationship being positive and healthy, till not too long ago when I realized that my mother never praised anything about ME. I was never told I was pretty or nice or good at anything. I was never encouraged to be anything uniquely ME. I was ONLY ever praised for how I was in relation to her. "She's so helpful, she cooks dinner every night. I don't know what I'd do without her." Etc. The only way to get affirmation as a child was to constantly make sure I was catering to her. So, being a people pleaser and a fairly nurturing person, this is what I did, day in and day out, year after year.

[Sitara]

Seeing my sister emotionally distressed enabled her to calm down. How completely effed up... .

This one is always so infuriating.  My mom would stir up trouble between me and my sister, then she would flip to over-the-top sweet and nice and act like she didn't understand what was happening and just sit back and watch as things erupted.  Sometimes I'd wonder if she enjoyed creating the drama.  Sometimes she'd swoop in and act like a mediator, telling us what we needed to do to fix the problem.

My mother expects to stay at my house usually and there is no way in the world I want her here. She needs to be a damn grownup and get a hotel.

This sounds like an excellent boundary to have.  It would give you someplace to escape to when you wanted to leave, a safe place for your sister to come home to. 

When I was younger, she would get angry if she started cleaning the house and we didn't jump up to help her right away. She would get more and more agitated and stomp and slam around the house till she lost it and yelled at us. She never just asked for help, we were supposed to anticipate her needs.

Mine too.  She would bring up that one holiday years ago where she did all the cooking and all the cleaning and no one bothered to offer to help and she had to do it all herself!  I'd get so frustrated that she couldn't ask, we were just expected to be mind readers.  The flip side is though, so often if you asked she'd say no.  So she'd be mad if you didn't offer, mad if you offered and she said no but didn't still help, mad if you just started doing stuff because you wouldn't know how to clean things properly, etc.  I finally just accepted that she'd find a reason to be mad no matter what I did, and that was about the point in time I stopped putting in the effort.  If she's going to get mad no matter how much effort I put into something, why bother at all?

I used to think this was our relationship being positive and healthy, till not too long ago when I realized that my mother never praised anything about ME. I was never told I was pretty or nice or good at anything. I was never encouraged to be anything uniquely ME. I was ONLY ever praised for how I was in relation to her.

So true, and so hurtful.  She had me convinced for years that we had a perfect mother daughter relationship and that we were normal.  I can only remember getting one gushing compliment from her, and it was because I bent over backwards to throw her a surprise birthday party.  Excelling in school, being in countless extra-curricular activities, never getting into trouble, and all I got was a response of "we expect that."  Throw a party revolving around her and suddenly I'm the most mature, amazing person on the planet!

You sound like a pretty strong person.  You'll figure a way through this.

[delaney]

One time I had a conversation with a woman who worked with the youth at my church. This woman had two daughters, 2 and 3 years older than me.

Her: "I would love my daughters no matter what."

Me: "What if they were gay?"

Her: "I would still love them."

Me: "What if one killed the other?"

Her: "I would love the one that was left."

This conversation makes me cringe a bit. But it also makes me hurt for my 15 year old self who had lived for so long before encountering the idea of unconditional love from one's mother. My mother never said she loved us, much less that she loved us unconditionally. She DID say that she would disown any of her children that "decided to be gay".    So that was the first thing I thought of that would lose your mother's love? That's the first thing that popped into my head? It's just so... . sad.  

My father currently has a gay kid living with him. It's kind of a long story but basically, one of my sisters lives there and her best friend came out to his parents and they kicked him out. My dad and stepmom took him in till he can get on his feet. My mother has nothing but derogatory things to say about this. I guess she agrees more with the parents who kicked their kid out of the house than with someone trying to help a person out in need. My mother claims to be a Christian. My dad is a Christian and my stepmom is Catholic. Who is being the more loving person? But religion is a whole other topic I'll save for another post... .

I once pointed out to my mother that she never said she loves us. Actually the closest she came was saying that if she ever lost a child she would die, her life would no longer be worth living. I didn't realize it at the time, but "losing a child" was open to interpretation and moving away is a type of loss. Anyway, now she says she loves me on the phone sometimes. It feels awkward. I tell my husband, my kids that I love them every day. I tell my sisters and brothers that I love them. I tell my dad I love him. But my mom? That's... . icky... .

[Sitara]

My mother says she loves us but her actions often show otherwise.  Generally though it was used as kind of a goodbye (phone only) like "Ok, love you, bye."  Or there was the dreaded, "I love you but I don't have to like you right now."  My dad (not a BPD but has other emotional issues) didn't tell me he loved me until I was 21, which I had to have a conversation with him basically begging him to say it.

I repeated that cycle for awhile because I thought that was just how love was.  I picked friends who used me, got engaged to an abusive man.  It wasn't until I met my husband that I felt unconditionally loved.  It scares me to think what kind of life I'd be living if I hadn't met him, surrounded by people who just saw me as a doormat... .

[Legacymaker]

Delaney,

I was reading your story last night and thinking the same thing that Sitara had posted about her husband.  I too found unconditional love, for the first time, with my own husband. I remember my mother having a sort of testing conversation with him.  It went something like:

Mom: "If you and Legacy divorced, would you give her half of everything?"   (I have always been very sensitive about a man providing for me)

Him: "Yes"

Mom: "I bet if she had an affair you wouldn't feel the same way."

Him: "I would be sad but I would never quit loving her, no matter what choices she makes.  We have always made our life

         as equals and she has earned half of all that we own, so yes I would give her half "

I was so humbled that anyone would imagine himself being that selfless, even in the face of his own heartache.

It's funny that I have always remembered this conversation.  It was over 20 years ago.  Your post reminded me of it.

Her: "I would love my daughters no matter what."

Me: "What if they were gay?"

Her: "I would still love them."

Me: "What if one killed the other?"

Her: "I would love the one that was left."

 

During my mothers latest rage at me, my husbands "provisions" was one of the things she threw into the mix to upset me.  She said, "You've always had a man to take care of you".   

Knowing how difficult this is for me, my husband keeps reminding me that I obtained my degree with two small children at home and one on the way.  I gave up a profession in the field of Physical Therapy, instead working odd jobs, so that I could remain at home with our children.  We launched our now 25 year old business. He worked 90 hours a week, while I home educated our 3 sons.  For years, I worked with him at our business, after the kids had been put to bed (most nights until 3 a.m.)  until we could move it years later into a location seperate from our home. I then ran my own retail business for 6 years.  My mothers words slay me.  She makes me feel so worthless. I often forget my value to my family and my own successes.  My husbands words comfort me, he reminds me daily to look at our core family to see what I have accomplished.

It is that unconditional love that we must turn to, when we are hurting.  Sometimes we must find a new mirror to gaze through, learning to see ourselves with a different set of eyes.

[delaney]

My husband was also amazingly loving. We were young when we got married, but he was so mature and committed for a 22 year old. He was the first person who actually acted interested in who I was instead of who he wanted me to be. That probably makes me sound kind of sad and pathetic and it's true that I probably rushed into marriage in part to escape my mother's home. He put up with a lot of crap from me in my early 20s, while I worked through a lot of issues. I lucked out big time with him. I had to learn how to fight fair, how to argue without taking every little thing personally. Looking back, I realize that I had really unhealthy, BPD-like ways of managing conflict and relationships. I had no model for how to deal with these things appropriately. But in time (and with much needed distance from my mother) I realized that I didn't want to be like her. So that was my starting point. Whatever my mother would do... . do it differently.

Legacy, I'm a homeschooling mom too. I have an 11 year old, 12 year old and 2 month old. I didn't start homeschooling till my kids were reading and writing so I've never had to do preschool and kindergarten but I will be in a few years.

[delaney]

My husband IS... . We're still married. I still don't know how to edit posts... .

[Legacymaker]

We were young too Delaney, 19 and 23! I was 17 and  my husband was almost 22 when I met him.  We knew each other 3 weeks when he proposed!  I was very lucky that things worked out.  I remember being able to see myself growing old with him.  I look at our youngest son now, he is 21 and think what a huge responsibility my husband took on when he married into my family.  We have been married for 31 years and he has been a rock.

I agree, it was me acting out in the early years of our marriage    Those "fleas" hung around for a while!

I was very blessed to be able to home educate my children. They are all boys, ages 26,24 and 21. My oldest was very intellectually advanced.  In his Kindergarten class, he reprogrammed all of the computers! He was the reason I started.  By the end of 1st grade, he looked like a drop out, he was so bored of school (he started in public, then went to private).  I planned to only home school for a year, while I gave him his love of education back.  Things just evolved from there.  He started college at the age of 14! He is a wonderfully talented artist and now works as a Printer for a national company.  He is now trying to start his own business in 3D printing.  The middle child was the kind of student every teacher loves-give him an assignment and he would go off and learn it.  He is a full time EMT and student, studying to be a Physicians Assistant.  Our youngest had a severe learning disability.  He shows some Autistic traits and is very dyslexic. He just graduated college (with honors) and is now a Media Director for a jeweler!  Yes, I am a very proud Mama. 

As parents, home educators or not, our time is the best asset we can give our children.

[piglet59]

I didn't know til I left home for a summer vacation that a mother could love unconditionally.  I had  strived to be the good girl until age 17, good grades, taking over all mom jobs like cooking every night and cleaning, not getting into trouble and being in the church.  Then I went with a friend to Colorado and when she acted up her mother didn't let her "have it".  Then this mom kept inviting me over to let me talk about what I needed, first time ever.  My own mother forbid me from going to see her.  Later, in college when I was living with my dBPD sister I moved out and in with my surrogate mom again and felt like I was going to be okay.  The rest of my adulthood has me seeking out other surrogate mothers who will validate me until I can do it for myself.  Even when I became a mother my own uBPD mom told me how awful my kids were and they were awesomely good, just that purity that comes from knowing you are truly loved. Then, I knew completely what I had carried from a very young age. 

[bright_future_mama]

Sitara--my mother does this as well--

"This one is always so infuriating.  My mom would stir up trouble between me and my sister, then she would flip to over-the-top sweet and nice and act like she didn't understand what was happening and just sit back and watch as things erupted.  Sometimes I'd wonder if she enjoyed creating the drama.  Sometimes she'd swoop in and act like a mediator, telling us what we needed to do to fix the problem."


My mother often does the same.  She likes to stir up drama between me and my sisters and then swoops in to mediate or be the "voice of reason."

She also would vacuum my room in the middle of the night when I was a kid like freakin Mommie Dearest. 

[delaney]

Tonight I was standing in my 12 year old's room and she got frustrated with me about me not being clear on the maybe-ness of some plans that ended up not happening this week (but will in 2 weeks). I said, "What do you want me to do? Is the delay really that big a deal?" She glared at me and snapped, "Get out of my room." I was stung and said, "You know, I'd never have talked to my mom that way" as I walked out of her room.

And I wouldn't have. Ever. My kids will be mean to me and rude to me, then they come and apologize and ask my forgiveness and I give it, freely, over and over and over again. I don't bring up the past, I do not hold grudges. And I realized that I've never ever experienced real forgiveness from my mother. I just sat on my bed and started crying at what a terrible burden it is, for me and for her. We move past things, sort of, but not really because even if we aren't actively acting mad about something right now, it's always there, ready to be dragged out again, ready to be used against me. I feel like I'm crushed under the weight of a lifetime of mistakes that will never ever be forgotten.

This week has been hard for me. I've been keeping my distance and I liked it that way but she decided she was going to "never rest until our relationship is healed". Then she proceeded to defend calling me soulless and bringing up stuff I did to hurt her from a decade ago. And I'm just done. I'm done with the guilt, I'm done with the drama, I'm done having a relationship with her if this is how it looks.

We had another stupid fight via text where she accused me of stuff that didn't ever even remotely happen. I'm honestly afraid at this point with how out of touch with reality she is. She told me I ruined her life by moving away. Ten years ago. That without living near her grandchildren, her life has no meaning. It's all so twisted, so needy, so sick. I don't want my children used to fulfill whatever emotional needs she has. She's an emotional vampire and my kids are just another meal to her. Why the hell do you have to live near someone to have a relationship with them?

Then she wrote me an email, apologizing profusely. See, my mother, unlike many borderline people from what I gather, will actually apologize. Eventually. I think she is actually sorry, and when she's pushed to the point where she has to admit she screwed up, it's a time for tons of self loathing and condemnation. The email immediately started analyzing a bunch of texts and what she said and why. She has this thing where it's vitally important to her that we "understand how she feels". And I just don't care anymore. I'm not going to validate someone feeling like their life has no meaning because their kids and grandkids live 700 miles away. That's not a normal, healthy or correct way to feel about that situation. And I'm sick of hearing about it.

In that same email (after the apology) she brought up reading an email I had sent to my sister seven years ago, when she got pregnant. My sister said, "Mom acts like everything is about her." I said, "I know, it bugs the crap out of me." Not exactly the harshest of comments right? Not exactly something any healthy person would cling to for seven years, right? And most people would be ashamed enough of reading an email that they had no business reading that they wouldn't bring it up. Nope, she actually demanded an explanation for the comment, while telling me that the only thing she said (to my newly pregnant teenage sister) was "Why are you doing this to me? What will people think of us?" I told her I wasn't going to apologize for a seven year old comment in an email that she shouldn't have read and that saying that to your pregnant teenager is amazingly self absorbed and being upset doesn't make it ok to be mean or rude. She should be apologizing to my sister, not demanding an explanation for me for something that wasn't even an unfair accusation because she DOES and ALWAYS HAS thought every damn thing we do is about her.

I almost didn't bother replying. I almost just replied, "Nope, not doing this." I almost wrote her an amazingly long detailed email answering everything she brought up in hers. I went somewhere in the middle, focusing on what I personally could no longer deal with in her behavior.

I'm just so exhausted. I didn't want to talk to her, didn't want to deal with all our problems. She adds so much stress to my day. I need to be able to handle this stuff better, obviously. I need to figure out a way to not let it throw me off so much so that I'm depressed and upset and distracted. This is part of what I wrote to her that I ended up not sending but this expresses very much how I feel about her mentality... .

"It's like everyone has this box of pain in their mind. Each painful memory is like a shard of glass or a jagged piece of metal in that box. Some people's boxes are bigger or fuller than others, but everyone has it because make no mistake, everyone has pain in their lives. And maybe sometimes something happens and one of these shards of glass escapes and we step on it and whoops, it hurts us again. But most of us pick it up and put it back in the box and tuck the box up on a shelf in the corner of our mind. It's still there, but we aren't staring at it, dwelling on it, reveling in it.

But you? Your box is always out on the floor in the center of the room. It's always open and all your shards of glass are scattered about the floor. You can hardly go about your day because you are stumbling over all the pain. But you know what? That's not me, that's you. I'm not hurting you today because of a comment in an email to [my sister] seven years ago. You are hurting yourself.  You pull it out and cut yourself with it over and over. Dad isn't hurting you because he was an ass ten or twenty years ago. You are hurting yourself."

[Legacymaker]

Oh Delany,

I so feel your pain.  I have just read your post to my husband and he is truly shocked!  I think it has really brought it home to him that we are dealing with a mental illness with my own mother. It would be impossible for all of us to collaborate and write about the same behaviors!  

I swear my mother keeps a ledger for every indescretion I have ever committed.  Her last rage she brought up my SINGLE incident of underage drinking!  An infraction from nearly 35 years ago!

When I told a girlfriend about our argument she said, "you were one of the best behaved teens I have ever known. Your mother never could have handled all the things I put my family through!"

I tried so very hard to be that "perfect child" and it still hasn't been good enough. This too, was a term that she spewed at me during her last rage and believe me when I say it wasn't said with love.

I can feel your sadness as you think about your  interactions with your own children. You have learned so many positive ways to interact with your family and you are doing things better than your own mother.  You have turned the negatives into positives. Don't let the self doubt creep in!

For tonight, just breath and know that you are not alone.   Give those babies of yours a hug. Trust me when i promise you, you will get through their teenage mouthiness. It is not the most pleasant stage but I guarantee that if you keep loving them and guiding them as you have so far, that they will grow to be mentally healthy, loving and terrific adults. You're doing just fine Mama and I am proud of you for putting your "box of pain" back on the shelf, keeping your kiddos safe from the dangerous contents!

[Sitara]

Delaney, I think you really hit the nail on the head. They choose to focus on being miserable.  They choose to hold on to every wrong they feel has ever been committed towards them.  And it's so frustrating because all you want to do is grab them by the shoulders and shake them, "Why do you want to be in pain?"  I don't enjoy seeing her miserable and I don't like it when she tries to drag me down.  She will find a way to drag every moment down.  It's exhausting to be around.

[delaney]

Oh Legacy I SO know what you mean about trying to be the perfect teen and still feeling like it was never good enough. I remember being about 16 or so and having this huge fight with my mom over something, I don't know what but it couldn't have been significant. But I crying to my father and saying, "You know what? I'm a good kid. I'm not involved in anything bad, I try to get along with my parents. There are kids out there sneaking out of the house and getting into drugs. But I don't get credit for anything." And I didn't. I got in trouble back then for simply disagreeing with my mother. She would get all offended and take it as a personal rejection of herself.

And it is exhausting Sitara. I literally feel tired after talking to her. Family gatherings are dreadful when they include her because they are never good enough for her. I don't know what would ever make her happy. Being the center of attention, all the time, every moment of every day revolving around only her? It's so egotistical for someone with such low self esteem.