Bedtime Boundaries

[rubyhammer]

Hi, y'all…I'm currently involved in something that's making me uncomfortable.  I went for a drive this evening (about an hour) and my dBPDw and D8 were at home together playing cards with the neighbor.  When I returned home a few minutes ago, at 7:15 pm, they were all out in the backyard having a fire in the fire pit.  I said to them that it was time to start getting ready for bed, which is when the ___ hit the fan. 

     Apparently they were making plans to go ice skating with the neighbors.  I mentioned that we have routine that we follow at bedtime and I'd like it if we stuck to it.  (Short version of the routine: 7pm, relax time; 7:30pm pj's,  snack, brush teeth; 8pm in bed, story, lights out).

     My daughter threw a fit, yelling, very upset, throwing things in the house.  My wife wanted to "talk about it," which I interpreted to mean she wanted to share her reasons why she should be allowed to break from the routine.  I calmly stated that we had agreed upon this bedtime routine together and I'd like to stick to it.

     Last night my wife and daughter went to a birthday party and didn't return home until 9pm, and, as a result of this (I believe) our daughter didn't want to go to school this morning and in fact took the day off (which I agreed to, we give her a couple free "mental health days" each month if she chooses to use them).  I told my wife that they stayed out past bedtime last night and I didn't think it was a good idea to do that two days in a row.

     My dBPDw then told me I was getting angry and defensive and that she couldn't talk to me, then she walked away.  I don't feel angry, but I do feel a bit defensive because I feel that this boundary or routine that we had previously agreed upon is being pushed on, and this is not the first time that my dBPDw has broken routines because she wants to do something, and it was only last Wednesday that she reminded ME of this 7pm rule.

     I retreated to a separate room to type this while my wife and daughter are talking in the living room.

     So, question:  Am I behaving in a codependent manner by trying to enforce this boundary?  Is it even a boundary?  Bedtime has been total hell at my house for a long time due to this type of inconsistent reinforcement (I'm at fault here, too).  Any tips or suggestions?  My D8 likes to escalate the situation rapidly by yelling, because at that point I tell her I will talk to her when she's able to talk without yelling, then my dBPDw steps in and just…I don't know, falls into the trap, I guess.

Frustrated... .

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[AnitaL]

This is a tough one, and I have noticed a similar pattern with my uBPDh as the "fun" one who suggests a walk or activity after dinner that will take them way past bedtime.  He also just hates any kind of routine or ritual for himself, so he has a hard time enforcing theirs and often groans when I say it's bathtime as if he's the one who's getting a bath, often suggests they skip brushing teeth, etc. It feels like having an extra kid in the house sometimes. 

I think you are best off trying to be consistent -- I'd just keep doing what you are doing, being the calm enforcer, and trying not to second-guess yourself.  You are essentially the only one being the responsible parent, which is not a very fun role sometimes, but is better for your D8 in the long run (and she will most likely realize this too at some point, if not already).  Then when you have the occasional late night out it will be more special.

Good luck!

[rubyhammer]

Thanks for sharing AnitaL!  Yeah, my wife is always telling me I'm no fun, and "Uh-oh, here comes Dad…"  I choose to ignore these comments.  I've lately come to the conclusion that I cannot reasonably rely on my wife to stick to any sort of routine or time schedule when it comes to our daughter (even though she keeps telling me WE need to make sure we stick to the schedule, then she keeps suggesting changes to the schedule, new routines, etc, etc).  If I don't enforce the routine every morning and every night, my wife will decide it's ok to go ice skating 15 minutes before bedtime, and of course my D8 will agree, because skating is more fun than bed.

     Tonight didn't go well in part because I took today off from work to take care of myself.  I was feeling just totally exhausted this morning.  Took a nap, went to the bookstore, went for a walk, went for a drive.  It felt good to focus on me for a day.  The downside is that my wife and daughter were together all day, without me, and when I came home tonight it seemed like they felt I was "ruining their fun" with my "stupid bedtime rules."  So I guess I feel as if it's not safe for me to leave them alone together for too long.  I just end up getting yelled at by 2 people, one big, one little.

     

[rubyhammer]

Update:

     This morning at breakfast I told dBPDw I was going to have my mom come over and watch D8 tonight for about an hour while I was at my weekly Codependents Anonymous meeting.  dBPDw has to work today from 2pm to 7pm.  I also said I wouldn't be able to pick her up from fork at 7pm because the CODA meeting is from 7 to 8pm.

     dBPDw responded, "Well, D8 and I were going to go over to [family friend]'s house for game night tonight at 7. (This was the first I heard of this plan.  On our calendar it says game night is this Saturday).

     I said, "I don't think that's a good idea because 7 o'clock is when we start getting ready for bed."

     dBPDw gave me a look of death, did not say a word, and eventually left the room. I went about my day and D8 and I went to work and school.

     So even after breaking the bedtime routine on Sunday and Monday evenings, seeing the consequences, and sharing my feelings about the situation, she actually made plans to repeat that behavior a 3rd time in a row. 

     Around lunch time dBPDw called me to say she had decided to skip game night tonight because it was just "too much for today" and also she found a ride home from work.  So what I've learned is that if I just state how I feel and ignore any negative reaction on her part, I get the best possible results.  It doesn't always work out, but the success rate is higher and I feel way better about myself for not having argued about something.

    Does anybody else have any similar experiences?  Say what you need to say and walk away?

Thanks for listening!

[AnitaL]

Good for you, rubyhammer!  Way to stay consistent and calm.  I agree, it's the best way (when we can stick to it!).   

[waverider]

These times are always drama riddled. A pwBPD parent can often use the kids as leverage to do what they want themselves, so any reluctance from you is buffered by saying you are ruining it for the kids.

Rigid routine is good, but it does no harm to bend the rules for treats once in a while. When my kids were young (not in BPD RS at the time) we had routines but we had exemption nights. Which were a maximum of one during the week and one at weekend, and not two in a row.

The choice of what night and for what reason was left to the kids to choose. Take it out of the parents hand and give your daughter power to choose (within reason)

[an0ught]

Hi rubyhammer,

you are asking the right questions and are working in the right direction. But of course the habits of the past few years take time changing. Ideally

- you two should be acting in unison as parents.

- you taking the role of the bad guy is of course enabling your wife to play the good guy. In some sense it is allowing her to act as a kid and not as a parent. May be ok once in a while but... . So when it comes to boundaries this is something to think about - how do you stop yourself from taking over her adult responsibilities. I understand there is the kid involved which makes it complicated so letting her fully fail is not an option.

     Last night my wife and daughter went to a birthday party and didn't return home until 9pm, and, as a result of this (I believe) our daughter didn't want to go to school this morning and in fact took the day off (which I agreed to, we give her a couple free "mental health days" each month if she chooses to use them).  I told my wife that they stayed out past bedtime last night and I didn't think it was a good idea to do that two days in a row.

There seem to be no consequences for getting yourself into a state where you are not able to go to school. In a normal world your wife would have to deal with a tired and grumpy kid in the morning and learn something from it. That would be way more convincing than you telling her at bed-time. PwBPD are able to learn quite well from practical experience but their ability to connect cognition to action is often impaired.

    So even after breaking the bedtime routine on Sunday and Monday evenings, seeing the consequences, and sharing my feelings about the situation, she actually made plans to repeat that behavior a 3rd time in a row. 

     Around lunch time dBPDw called me to say she had decided to skip game night tonight because it was just "too much for today" and also she found a ride home from work.  So what I've learned is that if I just state how I feel and ignore any negative reaction on her part, I get the best possible results.  It doesn't always work out, but the success rate is higher and I feel way better about myself for not having argued about something.

    Does anybody else have any similar experiences?  Say what you need to say and walk away?

Excellent move  . Simply be yourself. Let her draw conclusions if and when she is ready. I've seen a few cases here where people trying to use SET to get something from their partner. SET works best when T are simply facts and are not controlling. It is really a big step to break the reactive pattern on your side!