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Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse... Have you considered that being critical, judgmental, or invalidating toward the other parent, no matter what she or he just did will only make matters worse? Someone has to be do something. This means finding the motivation to stop making things worse, learning how to interrupt your own negative responses, body language, facial expressions, voice tone, and learning how to inhibit your urges to do things that you later realize are contributing to the tensions.
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Author Topic: two cents to spare?  (Read 509 times)
CoasterRider
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« on: January 17, 2014, 11:16:56 AM »

If you do take a read and let me know your $.02. THANKS!


From the moment I met my ex, I sorta had a feeling something wasnt right. He was nervous, shy, didnt have much to say our first date. I was very attracted to him, so tried my best to be light and easy going to get him to warm up and he did. I sort of saw him as wounded little bird. Someone who needed someone to scoop him up and show him its OK to fly again. I recognize this now as the major motivation for getting into the relationship, and my own "white knight" rescuer mentality to suit my own self esteem and insecurity issues, working on that with my therapist to solve it.

He clearly was not over what occurred with his ex, who Im sure is every bit of a narcissist. He made himself out to be the total victim in the situation. Looking back he had a victim attitude about most things in his life that didnt go his way (red flag? I know)

My ex threw himself 100% into the relationship from the very beginning, it was a breathe of fresh air compared to guys Ive tried to date in the past who were always wishy washy or played hard to get. My ex came on very strong and I had no doubt in my mind how much he adored and wanted me, or so I thought. Things were going great in the beginning, I describe it as a whorl-wind romance. Almost too perfect. He lived with family when we met, and it was not long before he started staying over most nights. Eventually sort of just being over all the time, and slowly moving himself in. Knowing his past and insecurity I didnt want to make an issue out of how fast things were moving. I enjoyed having him around and it seemed to make him happy and I wanted to make him happy. So 3 months into dating, he moved in "officially" but wasnt paying bills. As tenants have rights I wasnt ready for him to have any yet in the household, still hedging bets and partly my white knight syndrome to "take care of him."

It wasnt long after we were around each other literally every moment of our free time. He began looking through my phone and computer when I was out of the room. He would find text or phone calls from ex's or people I casually dated and stayed friends with. Instead of ask me point blank, he would casually drop the name, to see if I would give an honest answer or lie. I would give an honest answer most of the time unless it was a name I knew we had fought about in the past. I knew I wasnt up to anything and knew he would immediately take the contact the wrong way and not accept the context of it, and assume I was "up to something."

The ONLY time we really fought was when it came to people from my past, I had to delete friends on facebook, I had to stop being friend with my ex's new bf who I was friend with before they got together, I had to stop hanging out with certain people from work, I had to even cut off communication with a friend from out of state who has stage 4 brain cancer, because when he would contact me my ex would fly into a fit about it.

I ignored a red flag early on that my ex was only out for the "novelty" of a relationship, wanting the title, the surface, the hum drum day to day routine that provides us comfort we are in fact "in" a relationship. However, I felt the emotional development was second to all the shallower aspect of the relationship. When we would have problems he would never tell me to my face, he would usually leave the house and share them in a text message. I refuse to have deep convo's over text so I would tell him it needed to wait till he got home, but by then, he was "over" what he felt so strongly about earlier in the morning.

The insecurity and trust issue continued into the relationship, and would become worse when I would leave town from work. Constantly having to check in and keep him abreast of exactly where I was at and who I was with. Come to find out later in therapy he thought a trip I took to DC was so that I could hook up with an ex, who doesnt even live in DC. In his mind, he connected dots that didnt exist and assumed that was the real reason for the trip.

Around his birthday I threw him an enormous surprise party much to my own financial expense. Later that same week, I felt him pulling away from me, he spent every night out with friends till late even on work nights. This was a problem as we were scheduled for vacation in a few weeks and spent most of our savings getting us there, with little left over to actually do anything once on site. I told my ex he needed to cool it with the going out and save money for vacation. This didnt go over well, and a litany of excuses were thrown my way of how I was being controlling an everything would be fine.

We go on vacation and come back, where he puts most everything on a credit card (I payed cash), he starts going out with his friends immediately upon return and stays out till 3:00am. This behavior keeps up, and I am temporarily laid off from work. I tell my ex the partying can not continue if he contributes nothing financially to the roof over his head. If there ever was a time I needed help now would be it. Our arguments usually go like this, Me talking in circles, and him sitting quiet with a look in his eye like he wants to disappear or put his fist through the wall (or some combo?) Only when I get heated and in his face due to frustration of the one sided discussion. He usually blows up and blurts out some ridiculously insensitive or irrational comment like his original excuse for never paying bills, I make more money than he does, and I would have to pay them whether he was here or not. Like usual I get over it take all the responsibility and make it work, and he tells me "Im just not a supportive person"

Not even a week later, he checks my phone again. Finds facebook conversations from 6 months prior, between me and a casual fling I had before I met him. They were of sexual context, meaning sex was the topic of conversation. They were not "cybersex" nor was I receiving some sexual thrill from having them, I suppose its worth mentioning Im a guy too. Most people know, guys talk about sex, at work, in the car, in the locker room, standing on the street, in the bar etc... . I didnt think much about it being "cheating." In hindsight it was disrespectful considering the person I was talking with, being a former fling.

So my ex absolutely looses it over these conversations. Refuses to see them in the context they exist in. This began the week long fights, no longer able to deal with the lack of trust, carrying the bills, and being the responsible one while he comes and goes when he pleases, feeling more like a parent than a partner. I don't just take it for the team like I always had done. I stood up for myself and he packed his things up and left. He left a dear john letter on the kitchen table stating he couldn't handle all the fighting and that I emotionally cheated on him and that he will never "allow himself" to forget what I had done.

I took it pretty well, and just started doing for myself, working out, keeping the house clean and tidy. Talked to family and friends to make sense of it, my cousin who really liked my ex, takes the initiative to contact him, she is in the mental health field and has been in a similar situation herself, she didnt want to see him make the mistakes she's made by cutting and running vs work it out. That same night he contacts me (sends me song lyrics) he commits to working it out but the next day I was headed out of town for work.

He came "back" to me with the same intensity that he had when we first met. He texted me from morning till midnight everyday while I was out of town. Told me how much he loved me, and how I was the one he wanted to marry and start a family with, told me he understood that relationships aren't always about what make YOU happy but its for the betterment of both. He didnt want this to be a disposable relationship where it just gets thrown away and he finds another one. Just soo much stuff that ended up being complete bull.

I came back to town, and we started going to counseling. However, he starts becoming very hot and cold. One minute wanting to talk to me, the other doesn't make the effort. He makes it clear that he is MAKING time to see me or spend time with me. Asserts that "things just wont go back to normal" which I understood. As counseling goes on, the therapist starts to scratch the surface of some of his trust issues and insecurity. Like every other time I tried to implicate him or involve him in a solution to problems he completely shuts down and numbs out. Later in the parking lot, I confront him with the way he has been treating me, blowing hot and cold, unwilling to be empathetic and understanding to the situation and how painful it has been for me as well. He stood there without a word, then blurts out "I dont feel bad for you, this is all your own fault" "I have to go take care of myself now and do for myself, and thats what Im going to do" I tried to get him to realize how self centered that sounded and how this was never going to work with that attitude. He then has an anxiety attack and start throwing up behind his car and says that wasnt the first time he's had one. He doesn't say another word, except that he still loves me, and that's the last time I saw him. A week later he sends me a text saying he "cant" do it anymore, and basically he is going to go focus and work on himself for awhile. To no surprise he started dating someone else mere days after the official proclamation of self awareness and improvement.

With my own personality being a little codependent in relationships and willing to carry more responsibility to make it "work" I beat myself up pretty hard and let him convince me I was the one that cause everything to go to hell. My therapist and pretty much EVERYONE I have told this story to says the same things about it. BUT

Internet people, what do you think? Does this dude fit the profile of someone with BPD? Was I screwed and fighting a loosing battle with him from day one? Let me know your $0.02, thanks again!
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santa
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« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2014, 11:45:32 AM »

I'm not a professional, by any means, but from what you said, a lot of it sounds pretty BPD to me. Especially the part about him taking off the moment you stood up for yourself.

What I kept noticing as I read what you wrote is that this person constantly needs to be in control. To me, that's a red flag. BPDs can't stand not being in control.

The "anxiety" he showed really sounds familiar too. What do you think he was really anxious about? Probably not being in total control.

He may not be BPD. I have no idea. I think it's certainly a possibility though.
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CoasterRider
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« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2014, 12:05:36 PM »

Yea, I have a hard time placing a diagnosis on someone, when all of the "symptoms" are things we are all capable of doing at some point in our lives. It may simply be he was emotionally immature, which we are all at some point. Some grow up sooner than others.

The bailing out when I attempted to enforce boundaries that I had let him steam roll through our entire relationship does sound very BPD. I think his anxiety comes from a lot of past trauma and pain that he has never resolved. He takes a "world is out to get me" approach to his problems and takes no responsibility on how he acts, gets him where he is in his life. Which is also a BPD trait.

The anxiety I think came from knowing what he knew he needed to do to act right, but an inability to "betray" the sense of self that had been developed to defend himself against his emotions and thoughts and all that past/current pain that he perceived by my actions. Then again, the only person that really knows the truth is him. Im just grabbing at straws to make sense of it all.
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heartandwhole
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2014, 12:36:14 PM »

Hi CoasterRider,

This is tough stuff and I'm glad you reached out for support here.  I'm sorry about the breakup with your partner, that really hurts, and so many of us can relate.  I was broken up with very abruptly (more than once) and I felt shattered.

As you know, only a professional can diagnose BPD, so there is no way to know if your partner is suffering from the disorder.  The behaviors are what they are, and a label doesn't change the reality of that.  I do understand wanting to know, though.  I think with a diagnosis, sometimes it can help us understand what happened, and let go a little more easily.

I encourage you to read as much as you can about the disorder, that will help.  This article was very helpful for me in understanding the whirlwind that I experienced:

How a Borderline Personality Disorder Love Relationship Evolves

I'd love to know if any of it resonates with you.  Keep posting, Coastal.  We're here for you!

heartandwhole

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When the pain of love increases your joy, roses and lilies fill the garden of your soul.
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2014, 12:39:04 PM »

Yea, I have a hard time placing a diagnosis on someone, when all of the "symptoms" are things we are all capable of doing at some point in our lives. It may simply be he was emotionally immature, which we are all at some point. Some grow up sooner than others.

This is a good point - and one that I think can get lost sometimes.

At the end of the day, BPD or not, the relationship certainly was chaotic and didn't seem like you were getting what you were looking for, right?  A diagnosis does not change this fact.

So, what is your plan with him now?
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fromheeltoheal
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Relationship status: Broken up, I left her
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2014, 12:39:47 PM »

Hi Coaster-

I see a bunch of BPD traits in your missive, here's what I found:

Things were going great in the beginning, I describe it as a whorl-wind romance. Almost too perfect.

Borderlines need to attach, matter of life or death, and are chasing an unrealistic fantasy that you are indeed the knight in shining armor, the perfect person who will erase their lifelong pain.  A new attachment is perfect in a borderlines head with its black/white thinking and stunted emotional growth, and things that seem too good to be true usually are.

Excerpt
He began looking through my phone and computer when I was out of the room. He would find text or phone calls from ex's or people I casually dated and stayed friends with. Instead of ask me point blank, he would casually drop the name, to see if I would give an honest answer or lie. I would give an honest answer most of the time unless it was a name I knew we had fought about in the past. I knew I wasnt up to anything and knew he would immediately take the contact the wrong way and not accept the context of it, and assume I was "up to something."

Lack of trust and inappropriate jealousy are also hallmarks of the disorder, stemming from the fact he is CONVINCED you will leave him, which has nothing to do with the reality and everything to do with the disorder and past trauma.

Excerpt
The ONLY time we really fought was when it came to people from my past, I had to delete friends on facebook, I had to stop being friend with my ex's new bf who I was friend with before they got together, I had to stop hanging out with certain people from work, I had to even cut off communication with a friend from out of state who has stage 4 brain cancer, because when he would contact me my ex would fly into a fit about it.

Borderlines will attempt to isolate you from everyone, to control you and to eliminate external input to the relationship, where they may end up in a one-down position, all of their faults they so carefully conceal will be revealed, and you will leave.

Excerpt
When we would have problems he would never tell me to my face, he would usually leave the house and share them in a text message. I refuse to have deep convo's over text so I would tell him it needed to wait till he got home, but by then, he was "over" what he felt so strongly about earlier in the morning.

Mine did that too.  She liked texting because it kept an emotional distance without eye contact so she could stay untriggered.  Sitting down and having an adult conversation face to face was out of the question.

Excerpt
The insecurity and trust issue continued into the relationship, and would become worse when I would leave town from work. Constantly having to check in and keep him abreast of exactly where I was at and who I was with.

Same as above.

Excerpt
Around his birthday I threw him an enormous surprise party much to my own financial expense. Later that same week, I felt him pulling away from me, he spent every night out with friends till late even on work nights.

Emotional intimacy is triggering for a borderline; the closer you try and get, the more they pull away because they're feeling engulfed, the opposite of abandonment in the push/pull dance between their ears.

Excerpt
Our arguments usually go like this, Me talking in circles, and him sitting quiet with a look in his eye like he wants to disappear or put his fist through the wall (or some combo?) Only when I get heated and in his face due to frustration of the one sided discussion. He usually blows up and blurts out some ridiculously insensitive or irrational comment like his original excuse for never paying bills

Think of trying to have an adult conversation with a child; they can't play at that level, the emotions get the best of them quickly.

Excerpt
I stood up for myself and he packed his things up and left. He left a dear john letter on the kitchen table stating he couldn't handle all the fighting and that I emotionally cheated on him and that he will never "allow himself" to forget what I had done.

Sounds like mine; as soon as I stood up for myself the relationship ended.  No equal partnerships for a borderline, and then the projection and blame of the relationship's demise on you.

Excerpt
He came "back" to me with the same intensity that he had when we first met. He texted me from morning till midnight everyday while I was out of town. Told me how much he loved me, and how I was the one he wanted to marry and start a family with, told me he understood that relationships aren't always about what make YOU happy but its for the betterment of both. He didnt want this to be a disposable relationship where it just gets thrown away and he finds another one. Just soo much stuff that ended up being complete bull.

That's the abandonment driving him, the other side of the push/pull; he's panicking and shows up like none of the prior drama happened, it's all good, and let's get close again.  Optional reality to fit the needs of the disorder.

Excerpt
However, he starts becoming very hot and cold. One minute wanting to talk to me, the other doesn't make the effort. He makes it clear that he is MAKING time to see me or spend time with me. Asserts that "things just wont go back to normal" which I understood. As counseling goes on, the therapist starts to scratch the surface of some of his trust issues and insecurity. Like every other time I tried to implicate him or involve him in a solution to problems he completely shuts down and numbs out. Later in the parking lot, I confront him with the way he has been treating me, blowing hot and cold, unwilling to be empathetic and understanding to the situation and how painful it has been for me as well. He stood there without a word, then blurts out "I dont feel bad for you, this is all your own fault" "I have to go take care of myself now and do for myself, and thats what Im going to do" I tried to get him to realize how self centered that sounded and how this was never going to work with that attitude. He then has an anxiety attack and start throwing up behind his car and says that wasnt the first time he's had one. He doesn't say another word, except that he still loves me, and that's the last time I saw him. A week later he sends me a text saying he "cant" do it anymore, and basically he is going to go focus and work on himself for awhile. To no surprise he started dating someone else mere days after the official proclamation of self awareness and improvement.

The flip flopping, emotional intensity and triggering get worse towards the end of the relationship.  Too much to handle, emotions too strong, vomit, blame it all on you, off to the next potential knight, repeat.

Excerpt
With my own personality being a little codependent in relationships and willing to carry more responsibility to make it "work" I beat myself up pretty hard and let him convince me I was the one that cause everything to go to hell. My therapist and pretty much EVERYONE I have told this story to says the same things about it. BUT

That makes you glow brightly on a borderline's radar, might as well paint a target on your back, just like most of us here.  And then when we do try hard to 'fix' it and get beat up more, we begin to question ourselves, doubt ourselves, our self esteem and self confidence take a beating.  That can be the good news, having any weaknesses exposed like that along with the emotional pain; it can get us off our ass and push us to address issues that are maybe lifelong, on our way to better relationships in the future, the gift of a relationship with a borderline.

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CoasterRider
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2014, 04:28:28 PM »

Fromhealtohead,

Thank you so much for taking the time to dissect my account. I assure you there are so many more examples that fall into some of the areas you pointed out. Thanks again for your time!
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fromheeltoheal
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Relationship status: Broken up, I left her
Posts: 5642


« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2014, 04:39:16 PM »

Thank you so much for taking the time to dissect my account. I assure you there are so many more examples that fall into some of the areas you pointed out. Thanks again for your time!

You're welcome Coaster.  As you move forward in your healing, what issues I raised jumped out at you as profound and new in your understanding of him and the disorder?
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CoasterRider
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2014, 05:00:05 PM »

The two that were new for me, was about the birthday party.  I didnt understand how I though I was doing something that I thought would score huge points with him. For him to so quickly start to pull away. It makes sense now that that feeling that someone went out of their way so much to show love and care for a special time in their life, would in fact be received as a "trigger" of intimacy or closeness. I was thinking about that more, I guess the self esteem issues come in here? thinking they arent worth all the fuss? It freaks them out? Not sure how that plays in really.

The second was the last comment, about how my personality, codependant/white knight makes me like a rabbit with their foot caught in a snare trap, unconsciously whimpering for help. When my cries were heard by a hungry wolf coming for an easy dinner, not a member of PETA coming to my aid.
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fromheeltoheal
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up, I left her
Posts: 5642


« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2014, 05:22:02 PM »

The two that were new for me, was about the birthday party.  I didnt understand how I though I was doing something that I thought would score huge points with him. For him to so quickly start to pull away. It makes sense now that that feeling that someone went out of their way so much to show love and care for a special time in their life, would in fact be received as a "trigger" of intimacy or closeness. I was thinking about that more, I guess the self esteem issues come in here? thinking they arent worth all the fuss? It freaks them out? Not sure how that plays in really.

A couple of things were going on there.  First, a borderline is convinced that they will be abandoned, which has nothing to do with who they're in a relationship with, it's about the earliest attachment and trauma that created the disorder to begin with, so they don't believe displays of affection like that, and it makes them fear abandonment more.  Also, a borderline lacks a secure and constant sense of self, which creates the push/pull nature of the disorder: too close and they feel engulfed, they'll lose any sense of self they have and get 'absorbed' by the other person, and too far away and they'll feel abandoned, so the answer to feeling engulfed is to push you away, as they continually straddle the line between the two, a line that is always moving as their 'self' changes.

Excerpt
The second was the last comment, about how my personality, codependant/white knight makes me like a rabbit with their foot caught in a snare trap, unconsciously whimpering for help. When my cries were heard by a hungry wolf coming for an easy dinner, not a member of PETA coming to my aid.

Sort of, although it's not malicious.  A borderline is looking for an attachment, someone to make them whole, literally, because they don't have a whole self on their own, and when they attach they are creating one person with no boundary in their heads, not two autonomous individuals in a partnership.  This is subconscious though, so they couldn't consciously tell you that, but what they look for is someone who is susceptible to that attachment, kindhearted caregiver types qualify, and someone who seems more independent and healthy, and more demanding that their partner be the same, wouldn't qualify.
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