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Author Topic: first attorney consult  (Read 547 times)
Quantum Entangled

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« on: January 17, 2014, 07:58:58 PM »

I really, really need feedback. I had my first consultation with an attorney today. It's been since Dec 20th since I've seen my boys. 4 and5. My 5 yr old is Downs and I am his comfort level. My 4 yr old has anger toward me because I was his as well until one of her rages sent me out of the house again. Pattern has been she either screams me out or rages until I leave to try to keep it from the children. She usually relents and lets me see the boys after a day or so because she doesn't want the responsibility of taking care or them. This has been the longest. I'm hurting more than I can describe and I worry about them so much. The attorney has recommended that I do not give her any money for rent, supplies ect. If she is playing hardball then we should. Financial stress is her biggest trigger. The attorney said that it doesn't look good that I left them with her, but I have a job that sends me on appointments all day and evening and I don't know my schedule from day to day. I am staying in an inexpensive hotel so that I could provide money for her and the boys. This attorney has even suggested I call CPS. She would know. Besides I don't trust them. She would lie and cause the boys to be taken away from both of us. Does this advice I'm getting sound as if this attorney has experience with NBPD? Has anyone else had similar advice?
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maxen
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2014, 11:19:14 AM »

hi QE. i'm divorcing a BPDw, but we don't have children so i can't comment on the details, but have you consulted with another lawyer? you should anyway. present all the same information.
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ogopogodude
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2014, 11:29:40 AM »

   Yes, ... . call CPS. Just do. This department of the government has wonderful social workers that are there to help the children. They do this by helping the parent that can and will parent the children properly.

      I was so scared to talk with CPS but I did. And simply tell the truth. Do not try to cover up for your mate. There is zero point to that.

    But do remember that videos and audios of your mate having a temper rage is good evidence that you are telling the truth. Once the investigation begins, the social worker will not divulge her sources or type of (damaging) evidence that they have. In other words, ... . the social worker will not say "your spouse showed us videos of your temper rages". The social worker has to abide by confidentiality.

   For all your mate knows or will presume ... . is that a neighbour called in to the CPS.  Plus, CPS will not ask for a copy of the videos or audio clips unless you voluntarily give them this evidence. Really, ... all they need to do is see/hear it & that is all.

    Also, ... not all social workers are the same. It is your right to ask for one that you feel comfortable communicating with... . CPS will oblige.

   There is nothing, ... . (& I do mean nothing) like having CPS on your side in any court proceedings. Also, ... CPS social workers see BPD cases each and every day. They know EXACTLY what they are doing. They can and will interview your spouse. If your mate lies, ... they know this, ... . they are not stupid.

    A CPS worker knows how the psyche of a BPD works. If you are normal, ... . they will know this, ... if you are confused and frustrated with your mate's unusual and bizarre behaviour ... . they will figure that out as well.

   CPS is YOUR friend. Trust me on that... .
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ogopogodude
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2014, 11:40:06 AM »

Remember: temper rages by your mate/spouse is, simply put,  abuse.  

It is that simple.

Never, never, never, would a Judge (during court proceedings) tolerate a temper tantrum (with screaming, throwing things & kicking holes in the walls/doors) in his/her  court room.

Neither would this same Judge tolerate a temper rage episode in one's privacy of their own home.

It is not a tolerable emotion in an adult.

This emotion is understandable in a 4 year old toddler standing in the shopping cart reaching for the Oreo cookies while the parent is trying to obtain groceries, ... . but never, ... . never in an adult.

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DreamGirl
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« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2014, 07:24:45 PM »

What are the grounds for calling CPS?

Does she work or is she the sole caretaker of the children?
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Quantum Entangled

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« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2014, 08:06:03 PM »

The attorney said that since she is standing in the way of my seeing them I should have CPS check on them. She also said that it looks bad for me that I did not take them with me when I left. Now, I work outside sales and have appts from 11 to 7. they usually take 2 hours. I am essentially on call all day. The office handles my calendar and schedules daily. I have no idea from day to day what my appointment times will be. I do have hours available between appts, in which I can often go home. So the daycare aspect makes it prohibitive at this point. I also do not have the financial resources to pay for their current home and one for myself. This is the slow season for me. I am staying in an inexpensive motel until I can find and afford an apartment. My SO and I are not married. She works part time. boys are 4 and 5. I was in recovery from cervical surgery shortly after our 4 yr old was born. So I cared for them. Currently I was working full time, her part time. Her mother watches the boys. Situation, though is if my NBPD and I are home together, then I am the one who feeds them and baths them and plays and god forbid she changes a diaper. Problem is that her mother, who I believe also has a diagnosis though undiagnosed, will have no problem lie through her teeth for her daughter. Attorney also says I should not give her any money, though she only brings in a couple hundred a week. I have been giving her a couple hundred a week for groceries and supplies but the attorney said I need to concentrate in getting myself in a better position. 
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momtara
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« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2014, 10:44:07 PM »

You seem pretty smart.  Just keep making the case that you are the one who cares for them, you are the rock for the older boy, etc.

You can probably get another free or low cost consultation with an attorney.

The idea of calling CPS bothers me a bit, unless there are some geniune grounds.  But I'm a laywoman.

You can post on avvo.com for advice.
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ogopogodude
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2014, 02:11:46 AM »

Periodic (and 'expected' rages is abuse. "Expected" rages refers to, ... .  without a doubt, ... . given time, ... . your spouse will rage and throw things, and hit you, or whatever... .  Sort of like Murphy's Law: If something CAN go wrong, ... . it WILL go wrong given enough time.  Murphy;s Law for example refers to any car part in the engine bay of one's vehicle.  

Anyways, ... a rage is abuse. It is that simple. If your signif. other has temper rage then THAT is grounds for CPS to be called. A child should not ever see their parent go nutz. An adult should always be in control and calming with a child present.

A home should be sanctuary for each and every child. A child has the RIGHT to feel safe in their home.  If they do not feel safe due to a parent having a temper rage, ... . then abuse is the term given to what that parent is dishing out.

  I will cite just one example of abuse that occurred in my house:

When my son was 11 years old, ... . my wife was having a temper tantrum and in front of him and me, ... . she went storming to the kitchen drawer and grabbed a steak knife and cut her wrist with the serrated knife over and over as my son screamed "stop mommy stop!"... . I literally saw bits of flesh fly thru the air.

   So, to anyone reading the above paragraph, ... just imagine that scene, close your eyes and imagine that scene ... .

One thing is certain: I will remember that argument for the rest of my life (and I am hoping that my son does not).

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marbleloser
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2014, 10:30:40 AM »

"Now, I work outside sales and have appts from 11 to 7. they usually take 2 hours. I am essentially on call all day. The office handles my calendar and schedules daily. I have no idea from day to day what my appointment times will be. I do have hours available between appts, in which I can often go home. So the daycare aspect makes it prohibitive at this point. "

You're setting yourself up for losing custody. You're explaining that you CAN'T take care of the children because you work long hours. You need to rethink your strategy and possibly find another job where you CAN be with the kids.

And yes,moving out was the biggest mistake you could have made.Move back in.Today!

Unless there's a PFA order or restraining order,you have a right to go back to your home. You essentially told the court that her having the kids it ok with you.

If you file with CPS,they're going to wonder why,if she's abusive,that you left the children with her?
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DreamGirl
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« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2014, 10:59:33 AM »

I don't think using CPS as a legal strategy is a good idea. I'm also not an attorney, that's just my view.

If you are worried about your children's well being, then CPS is definitely a route that could be taken. I would research your state's laws when it comes to neglect and abuse. Alienating the other parent doesn't usually fit the criteria. (Not saying that it shouldn't, but it doesn't) That's more of a family court matter. Withholding financial support from your children's mother, when you've supported her during the relationship, is also a little risky in my opinion.

At the first consultation that my husband had with his attorney, they used the state calculator, imputing his wages and her "potential" wages (imputed based on what she was capable of earning based on her degree). It was around 30% of his net income. She was a stay at home, so to think that he no longer had to support the children because the marriage was dissolving and he had to seek a different residence would not really be a viable reason. He was also allowed credits based on the fact that he was paying health insurance and they were practicing an every other weekend schedule.      

It was not enough for her, because well... . she suffers from a personality disorder where entitlement seems to be a common issue. It was however, a reasonable solution for my husband and he felt it was fair. His lawyer advised him that it was fair. It also set the groundwork for him to show the court that he was reasonable and willing to compromise. He always made a good faith effort to do the right thing for his girls. His ex-wife consistently (and predictably) did not.

My husband also did not have the work schedule (or even the conviction) to be able to take his daughters on a full time basis. Their mom does suffer from mental illness and really struggles as a parent, but she also does not fit the criteria that would have constituted her to lose custody of her children. It helps to know the standards in your state. Many of us have learned, the hard way, that being a "bad" parent is a pretty subjective term.

It also might be a good idea if you figure out what it is that you actually think is best when it comes to the kiddos should you move forward with the break-up. Would a 50/50 schedule benefit them the most? Would an every other weekend schedule with their dad benefit them the most? What is going to work? When it comes to custody matters - it's best to know the schedule you want, petition for that schedule with valid reasons why it would work, and still be willing to compromise.  

I also think that once you retain an attorney, the best step would be to get a temporary orders hearing that allocates you parenting time with your children. Having a separate residence will help you in getting that accomplished if overnights are involved.  

It's important to stay grounded in this emotional time. My husband chose an attorney that would often take the flare up of my husband's emotions and take him back to a more rational place.

I highly recommend that you buy the book Splitting. Eddy talks about several strategies that you can use in these court proceedings - including choosing the right lawyer.
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« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2014, 11:49:35 AM »

HI QE,

Dreamgirl has given you very good feedback.

If I were in your shoes, I would get another consult - CPS is opening a door that you need to be really prepared to go through.

Temporary orders would be the first line of reasonable (not high conflict) strategy on custody. 

Best,

SB
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Quantum Entangled

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« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2014, 07:38:57 PM »



Posted by ogopogodude:

Murphy;s Law for example refers to any car part in the engine bay of one's vehicle.

Don't understand the reference 

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ForeverDad
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« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 09:55:00 AM »

Periodic (and 'expected' rages is abuse. "Expected" rages refers to, ... .  without a doubt, ... . given time, ... . your spouse will rage and throw things, and hit you, or whatever... .  Sort of like Murphy's Law: If something CAN go wrong, ... . it WILL go wrong given enough time.  Murphy;s Law for example refers to any car part in the engine bay of one's vehicle.

Posted by ogopogodude:

Murphy;s Law for example refers to any car part in the engine bay of one's vehicle.

Don't understand the reference

If you have a car long enough, eventually virtually any specified part will break down and need repair.  As referenced here, it means that a pwBPD or other acting out PD that is not being effectively addressed by ongoing, effective therapy being applied in the individual's life, then eventually it will happen again or get worse.

If there were periodic rants, rages, throwing, etc in the past, then it's just a matter of time before the next incident.  Just a matter of time.

Same goes for other 'indicators'.  If a pwBPD has threatened or contemplated something (calling the police, falsely claiming DV, etc) then it's that much more likely to happen than if it had never been threatened or contemplated.

Not always - but quite often - threats, rants, rages, etc are control tactics to wear down or shatter your boundaries.  The WHYs are more complex.  Control or else feel controlled.  :)ominate or else feel dominated.  Belittle or else feel belittled.  Much about BPD, NPD and other acting out PDs are about feelings, moods and perceptions.  Very unbalanced, very easily triggered, very unreasonable and for some even very dangerous.
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