How do they know?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Not all, but many here on these boards, have entered recycles once, twice & multiple times!

During 'off' periods many have gone NC, many have spoken their minds & called their ex's out on things. Many have recruited a support network & told friends & family that they're done with the ex.

On the whole there's a variety of ways we have displayed total & utter "I'm do done, don't bother coming back" signals to our ex's.

Incredibly enough, this often has ultimately meant nothing! The BPDex has still returned confident we can be won over, often succeeding and round we go again!

So HOW do they know when it really has gone beyond the point of return & we're not for taking anymore?

How can they tell? Ultimately when we truly have had enough, we can only display more of the same defences we already did on previous break ups.

Are they mind readers?

[Moonie75]

Not all, but many here on these boards, have entered recycles once, twice & multiple times!

During 'off' periods many have gone NC, many have spoken their minds & called their ex's out on things. Many have recruited a support network & told friends & family that they're done with the ex.

On the whole there's a variety of ways we have displayed total & utter "I'm do done, don't bother coming back" signals to our ex's.

Incredibly enough, this often has ultimately meant nothing! The BPDex has still returned confident we can be won over, often succeeding and round we go again!

So HOW do they know when it really has gone beyond the point of return & we're not for taking anymore?

How can they tell? Ultimately when we truly have had enough, we can only display more of the same defences we already did on previous break ups.

Are they mind readers?

[charred]

Look at "con men" for a clue.

So long as a mark is buying their story, trusting them and continuing to be led around, the con can continue.

When the mark knows they have been burned, is mad and wanting justice... . the con will either skip town, lay low while avoiding the mark, or try to "cool the mark"... get them to calm down so they don't call the police or do anything. If time passes and the mark is still gullible, they may re-engage and con the mark again.

However once the jig is up... the cons have ran the course and they are known for what they are... . the con man is not trusted, is unable to lie as everything they say is not believed until proven true... . they tend to avoid the mark, and look for easier victims.

Most of the r/s intensity is egoic in nature... ego defenses you didn't know you exhibited let the pwBPD pull at your heart strings and accept little half truths, and bigger white lies and eventually you find yourself rationalizing some real whoppers. The opposite of egoic stuff is genuine... and that is what the BPD r/s is not. Getting grounded in reality, accepting the situation for what it is, and not accepting any BS lies, distortions, blame, unwarranted guilt... or irrationality from your pwBPD... . is exactly the same as the "gig being up" for a con man. Mindfulness helps you to be in the moment and stop ruminating about the r/s... (egoic stuff is what you ruminate on)... and accepting that your partner is disordered, untrustworthy, and that you fell for them... . then forgiving it all, letting go ... . and moving on, is what you need to do.

I found that when I looked at the r/s as me being a cop being told stories by a con man... . my pwBPD quickly picked up on it, and stayed NC... its been some 18 months now... and she sent 100's of emails, texts and voice mails before, we recycled about 7 times... and I wised up and it ended abruptly.

That is my take on it.

[LilMissSunshine]

Charred, I like your analogy.  However, during the "cons" cooling down period they've already moved onto their next "mark" / replacement.  What's hard for me to understand is: Why do they "return to the scene of the crime?"

[Waifed]

Charred, I like your analogy.  However, during the "cons" cooling down period they've already moved onto their next "mark" / replacement.  What's hard for me to understand is: Why do they "return to the scene of the crime?"

It's easier and faster to reconnect with an ex than it is to find a new partner. You can use the ex until something better comes along. It is somewhat normal to want to (or think about) reconnect on some level with exes when you break up with someone. It is familiar and comfortable. BPD's are just more extreme.

[Moonie75]

But they seem to have a sixth sense!

We say/do the same each time. Despite this they return.

Once we really have got the point we need to be & won't go back into it, all we have to display is same behaviour as we previously displayed (last break up).

Yet despite our behaviour being same as last time, they see something that tells them the gigs up!

I don't know how!

[alliance]

Recycling is not a tribute to their mind reading or other skills.

It is about our own stupidity for taking them back. If you don't own that fact, you will always be recycle bait.

[Moonie75]

Recycling is not a tribute to their mind reading or other skills.

It is about our own stupidity for taking them back. If you don't own that fact, you will always be recycle bait.

You've misunderstood me!

I'm not saying we enter recycles because they can read our minds! I think all here trying to detach are more than happy to own our own role in the dance.

Point I'm making is... . When we've said it all before at break up time, there's nothing different we can exude when we really are done!

So they have nothing different to read, observe, work off!

But they still know!

How so? Is my question.

[seeking balance]

Point I'm making is... . When we've said it all before at break up time, there's nothing different we can exude when we really are done!

Moonie, this question assumes you or any of us - kept more boundaries than we didn't.  They come back because OUR pattern of behavior has set it up.

pwBPD have long term relations with "flawed" people... . healthy people with strong boundaries that are not lonely or needy with a savior complex tend to not last long in these relationships.  The pattern of behavior was set by all the relationships.

So, no sixth sense - just a master survivor who knows where to get needs met until the game changes.

[LilMissSunshine]

Perhaps, what they know is that WE STILL LOVE them.  So, therefore, since they do not value love they know enough about it to use it as a tool against us?  They know where our Achilles heal is?  

[Waifed]

Recycling is not a tribute to their mind reading or other skills.

It is about our own stupidity for taking them back. If you don't own that fact, you will always be recycle bait.

You've misunderstood me!

I'm not saying we enter recycles because they can read our minds! I think all here trying to detach are more than happy to own our own role in the dance.

Point I'm making is... . When we've said it all before at break up time, there's nothing different we can exude when we really are done!

So they have nothing different to read, observe, work off!

But they still know!

How so? Is my question.

Moonie

She doesn't know and she will likely contact you again like before once this relationship runs it's course again. That has obviously been her pattern and likely not change. It is up to you to do what you want at that time.

[Moonie75]

Waifed,

They'd lock me up & throw away the key!

[In_n_Out]

I know that in the case of my ex, her senses were very enlightened.  She is very sensitive to light, sounds and touch (and I assume taste).  She was also very intuned to me and she could sense my emotion very acutely.  Over time, I also became in touch with her thoughts and emotions even if she weren't displaying them at the time.  I know that she senses that I'm hurting but recovering and I sense in her the avoidance; she's attempting to avoid anything that reminds her of me while she tries to focus entirely on the replacement.  But I sense that it is a battle for her.

[MellowOddFellow]

i got the feeling deep down i got painted really black, to the point maybe she expelled me completely from her mind?

i was made the monster that destroyed "our world" so i guess thats how she "knows" shes done.

a really bitter sweet gift, since i dont have to lift a finger to never hear from her.

hope she stays busy with her new life while i try to figure mine out.

[Perfidy]

Moonie... I believe that they know when it's past the point of no return. That point is when you are no longer of any value to them. When they have taken all they can take. When they have fed off of you until you no longer have anything to offer. It obviously isn't up to the non. If it were, the relationship would have ended as soon as we noticed the whacked out behavior.

[seeking balance]

She doesn't know and she will likely contact you again like before once this relationship runs it's course again. That has obviously been her pattern and likely not change. It is up to you to do what you want at that time.

I have seen people contacted 20 years later.

Waifed,

They'd lock me up & throw away the key!

It sounds like you are frustrated and feeling a little dramatic Moonie - sorry you are hurting.


In the interest of the "why" of this question, I will attempt to break it down even further.

Most of us know of Pavlov dog experiment right?  Not saying it is the same, but keep it in mind for context.

When your pwBPD met you - the very presence of you numbed that pain... . you were the cure!  You were treated as such, right?  Over time, reality sits in and the other side of the pendulum shows up.

The relationship ends through a series of push/pull... . but that "cure" or potential "cure" to the pain is still there.

So, when needing a "fix" - they contact you.

This is very little difference than we see on our side really.  How many threads do we read where folks who have been hurt contact their exBPD - it is the hope for the cure to the pain.

The difference (I think) - is eventually we realize they are not our cure.  pwBPD tend to have short term memory on those things in moments of pain... . they cycle through the "cures" (you know there are many) and if you name comes up on the list and a good feeling goes through them -boom - you are contacted.  It is nothing more or nothing less.

Cheers,

SB

[babyducks]

Moonie,

I have a slightly different take on your question.  My EX has a sixth sense about peoples moods.  Very sensitive to the people and the emotions around her.  Not just mine.    She had an ability to 'read' the people around her, especially if they were disturbed by something.

Maybe because she dealt with intense emotions she was good at recognizing them in others?

Maybe because she was usually on high alert processing the events going on near her?

Maybe because she recognized some unspoken signals that I walked by?

Dunno.

She didn't always get the signals right.  Sometimes she got them remarkably wrong.  But she always seemed more comfortable with people experiencing strong emotions.

babyducks

[myself]

When you consistently see through their b.s., they're done.

[charred]

Think about it... . how do they know?

Doesn't take a mind reader... lot of people have people they know in common... relatives, your friends, neighbors. My pwBPD reached out to ALL of them at various times. Haven't seen my dad in over 10 yrs... found out my pwBPD had lunch with him. They can read FB (not just yours, but anyone they think knows you ... . and find out things. It really is stalking at times.

I was contacted over 23 yrs after I was first dumped and devastated... . she got the info from FB... contacted me on FB.

My pwBPD was very sensitive to peoples moods/emotions... could really read them well. Used that to judge if her lies were being believed, and clearly took actions to get the effect on people she wanted... crazy lies, outrageous claims... . over the top drama. It wasn't the truth/falseness that mattered to her, it was the reaction she was getting.

Seen con men make outrageous claims and then watch for the reaction... . its feedback to whether they are still being believed... . and my pwBPD was an expert at judging it.

Much of the pain I have seen in a r/s with a pwBPD... . came from buying in to what they tell you... . that you are special, you are the only person that blah, blah. If you want to really come to question your pwBPD... . read the book "The Art of Seduction" by Robert Green... . most likely you will recognize every single technique in the book was used. I wondered if the book was made from studying a pwBPD... . its like a manual on doing the idealizing.

If you really had sparks with the pwBPD... . most likely it is something in you and your FOO that is behind it, and you should look at addressing it. The giant hurt comes from old issues getting opened up and made fresh... . despite how it seems ... . the pwBPD does not create the hurt... . they bring it all out. Your problems go back farther than the pwBPD... . guarantee it... . but its not easy to see in yourself and takes a lot of guts to accept and try to change it.

[sun seeker]

 

My experience has been this. My xdBPDgf would make contact and test the waters so to speak. if you answer (which we all know is a terrible move) & come off as  being done or moving on they rage or devalue you. When you come across pleasent or sympathetic they got you on the hook AGAIN! (SUCKER)

[ogopogodude]

Look at "con men" for a clue.

So long as a mark is buying their story, trusting them and continuing to be led around, the con can continue.

When the mark knows they have been burned, is mad and wanting justice... . the con will either skip town, lay low while avoiding the mark, or try to "cool the mark"... get them to calm down so they don't call the police or do anything. If time passes and the mark is still gullible, they may re-engage and con the mark again.

However once the jig is up... the cons have ran the course and they are known for what they are... . the con man is not trusted, is unable to lie as everything they say is not believed until proven true... . they tend to avoid the mark, and look for easier victims.

Most of the r/s intensity is egoic in nature... ego defenses you didn't know you exhibited let the pwBPD pull at your heart strings and accept little half truths, and bigger white lies and eventually you find yourself rationalizing some real whoppers. The opposite of egoic stuff is genuine... and that is what the BPD r/s is not. Getting grounded in reality, accepting the situation for what it is, and not accepting any BS lies, distortions, blame, unwarranted guilt... or irrationality from your pwBPD... . is exactly the same as the "gig being up" for a con man. Mindfulness helps you to be in the moment and stop ruminating about the r/s... (egoic stuff is what you ruminate on)... and accepting that your partner is disordered, untrustworthy, and that you fell for them... . then forgiving it all, letting go ... . and moving on, is what you need to do.

I found that when I looked at the r/s as me being a cop being told stories by a con man... . my pwBPD quickly picked up on it, and stayed NC... its been some 18 months now... and she sent 100's of emails, texts and voice mails before, we recycled about 7 times... and I wised up and it ended abruptly.

That is my take on it.

Holy crap, ... . this is the best said blurb I have read in a long time. Well put, charred. 

[alliance]

Recycling is not a tribute to their mind reading or other skills.

It is about our own stupidity for taking them back. If you don't own that fact, you will always be recycle bait.

You've misunderstood me!

I'm not saying we enter recycles because they can read our minds! I think all here trying to detach are more than happy to own our own role in the dance.

Point I'm making is... . When we've said it all before at break up time, there's nothing different we can exude when we really are done!

So they have nothing different to read, observe, work off!

But they still know!

How so? Is my question.

You are making an inaccurate presumption here i.e. their attempt to recycle actually has something to do with you.

When they are in recycle mode, something has happened in their life and they are looking for filler until they find their next victim. We are simply filler. It is all about them not us.

As long as we continue to prove we can be manipulated by them, they will keep coming back when the need arises. When we stop feeding into our own victimization, they don't get what they want and that makes them less likely to come back.

There is nothing magical about it. As long as we stay in the "getting a thrill" when they contact us mode and the magical hoping they have come to their senses that we were the best thing that ever happened to them, the longer we stay stuck in their muck.

[Waifed]

She doesn't know and she will likely contact you again like before once this relationship runs it's course again. That has obviously been her pattern and likely not change. It is up to you to do what you want at that time.

I have seen people contacted 20 years later.

Waifed,

They'd lock me up & throw away the key!

It sounds like you are frustrated and feeling a little dramatic Moonie - sorry you are hurting.


In the interest of the "why" of this question, I will attempt to break it down even further.

Most of us know of Pavlov dog experiment right?  Not saying it is the same, but keep it in mind for context.

When your pwBPD met you - the very presence of you numbed that pain... . you were the cure!  You were treated as such, right?  Over time, reality sits in and the other side of the pendulum shows up.

The relationship ends through a series of push/pull... . but that "cure" or potential "cure" to the pain is still there.

So, when needing a "fix" - they contact you.

This is very little difference than we see on our side really.  How many threads do we read where folks who have been hurt contact their exBPD - it is the hope for the cure to the pain.

The difference (I think) - is eventually we realize they are not our cure.  pwBPD tend to have short term memory on those things in moments of pain... . they cycle through the "cures" (you know there are many) and if you name comes up on the list and a good feeling goes through them -boom - you are contacted.  It is nothing more or nothing less.

Cheers,

SB

Ouch!  Are they truly this cold and unattached?  Certainly they have a "true love" from the past?  I always looked at it like they are just like anyone but just more extreme with their emotions. Are they truly incapable of loving? 

[Tincanmike]

They probably always think that there's weakness in your defenses somewhere.  There always was before, wasn't there?  Our we wouldn't have stuck around so long or later recycled.  I think it all gets back to the key of not initiating or reciprocating contact.  At all.  They can't break down your defenses if you don't let them.  Close the door, lock it up and throw away the key.

Not to imply that they are necessarily trying to attack you or do you harm. More so that they have found a predictable pattern of manipulation that has worked in the past and they will try it again if they can.  This is done for self-serving purposes. Whether with intention or not shouldn't matter to us if we are truly done and ready to move on for ourselves. 

I'm sure we were all guilty to some degree with manipulative tactics directed towards them.  But we should not be in a place to even contemplate using them if we want the relationship to end once and for all.  I wish I could say, "and they all lived happily forever after".  At least in my case, until my ex gets the help she needs, she will continue to manipulate the people in her life to ease the pain of hers.

[charred]

She doesn't know and she will likely contact you again like before once this relationship runs it's course again. That has obviously been her pattern and likely not change. It is up to you to do what you want at that time.

I have seen people contacted 20 years later.

Waifed,

They'd lock me up & throw away the key!

It sounds like you are frustrated and feeling a little dramatic Moonie - sorry you are hurting.


In the interest of the "why" of this question, I will attempt to break it down even further.

Most of us know of Pavlov dog experiment right?  Not saying it is the same, but keep it in mind for context.

When your pwBPD met you - the very presence of you numbed that pain... . you were the cure!  You were treated as such, right?  Over time, reality sits in and the other side of the pendulum shows up.

The relationship ends through a series of push/pull... . but that "cure" or potential "cure" to the pain is still there.

So, when needing a "fix" - they contact you.

This is very little difference than we see on our side really.  How many threads do we read where folks who have been hurt contact their exBPD - it is the hope for the cure to the pain.

The difference (I think) - is eventually we realize they are not our cure.  pwBPD tend to have short term memory on those things in moments of pain... . they cycle through the "cures" (you know there are many) and if you name comes up on the list and a good feeling goes through them -boom - you are contacted.  It is nothing more or nothing less.

Cheers,

SB

Ouch!  Are they truly this cold and unattached?  Certainly they have a "true love" from the past?  I always looked at it like they are just like anyone but just more extreme with their emotions. Are they truly incapable of loving? 

Its more like warm and detached... think of a 3 yr old... they mean it when they say "I love you" and really really meant it when they have a tantrum and say "I hate you." They are often desperate... . looking for someone to save them... . and they don't see them as victims... they see them first as saviors, then as someone that may leave them, then as the cause of all the problems they ever had.

They are stuck in an early development phase... before empathy... and in some kind of loop. Over time you will have what seems like the same exact argument, and they don't listen to the answers... they answer for themselves with whatever traumatic stuff happened in past... its like you are not their almost... . or they can't hear you. It gets faster and faster over time.

Its just hard to accept that we are not the "only special one"... to them and that they are just as emotionally bubbly and affectionate with someone else and just as disordered... . after a while you start to accept the reality of the disorder and take them off a pedestal and realize they need professional help... . not for you to jump through hoops tending to their irrational 3 yr old whims.

[seeking balance]

Ouch!  Are they truly this cold and unattached?  Certainly they have a "true love" from the past?  I always looked at it like they are just like anyone but just more extreme with their emotions. Are they truly incapable of loving? 

Charred summed up the answer pretty right on target.

Love - funny thing about this word; I think it helps to realize your definition of love versus your pwBPD definition is likely different in the ability to show it.

[fromheeltoheal]

My ex was running beliefs that she was convinced everyone would abandon her and people are ugly.  Plus the downside of lying all the time is not that you'll be found out, it's that you think everyone else is too.  She trusted no one.

Because of those beliefs and the unpleasant world they created for her, she was hypersensitive to everything, to the point of interpreting things in people's facial expressions that weren't there.  Hypervigilant always.  So it was pretty clear when she'd pushed it too far and I'd had enough, text messages, her favorite way to communicate, stopped immediately, but she kept trying with phone calls and an email or two, the fake sunshine she spewed that was once so attractive had become disgusting, so yet another man abandoned her, reinforcing that belief.

[Murbay]

Moonie, I believe people get recycled because on this end we see more than just black and white. It also depends on your own state of mind too. Many of us that end up in an unhealthy relationship can identify issues within ourselves, whether this be codependency, low self worth, loneliness, FOO etc... . Also rescuer type personalities too.

When I first "escaped" my exBPDw, I went back. I'd convinced myself it wasn't her fault, if I could love her more than maybe the spell could be broken. That only seems to work for Disney and the reality is much more harsh. The breakthrough came with my T when I realised that I was trying to rescue a child. If you saw a child in a store crying because they were lost, you would want to help reunite them and that's what draws us in. Only they are not a child, they are adults and we cannot save them.

From a pwBPD perspective, my exBPDw painted one of her exbf as black as they came, not a good word to say about him but from what I heard, he was a decent guy. All it took one night was a small donation from him for one of the kids events at school and he couldn't have been more perfect if you tried. It was a complete switch within seconds. She was completely oblivious to any wrongdoing he may have done in the past.

My exBPDw parting words to me were that we could be like Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. Find each other again in the future and get remarried. That has red flags all of it's own  

My trick to not being recycled is - see the adult, not the child and try to stay painted black for as long as humanly possible  

[Changingman]

Control!

They can feel the control over you. As you gain any space from the control it is obvious. I think this is the reasons for the constant s**ttests. Have I got power

[Ironmanrises]

My ex was running beliefs that she was convinced everyone would abandon her and people are ugly.  Plus the downside of lying all the time is not that you'll be found out, it's that you think everyone else is too.  She trusted no one.

Because of those beliefs and the unpleasant world they created for her, she was hypersensitive to everything, to the point of interpreting things in people's facial expressions that weren't there.  Hypervigilant always.  So it was pretty clear when she'd pushed it too far and I'd had enough, text messages, her favorite way to communicate, stopped immediately, but she kept trying with phone calls and an email or two, the fake sunshine she spewed that was once so attractive had become disgusting, so yet another man abandoned her, reinforcing that belief.

I experienced the same with mine. She would start to question, post trigger(devaluation) my tone of voice, my facial expressions, what words i said, etc etc. And her interpretations were way off. She told me once in round 2, again soon after devaluation commenced, "Ironmanfalls, had you continued with medical school and become that Immunologist that you always wanted to be, you would not be with me, a single mother with 2 kids not your own. You would have long left me." I remember just being stunned as she said that to me. Here i was, having accepted her back into my life after she discarded me before, and here was her movie reel strip playing out loud for me to hear. I thought i was in the Twilight Zone. But i wasnt. It was her projected abandonment that she was going to soon act out on and abandon me first before the "twilight zone" movie reel script was somehow going to come true. I didnt know to feel sorry for her or be mad at the entirety of that.   

[arn131arn]

Thanks, Ironmanfalls.

You have again given me great insights into the darkness of BPD.

I have been actually denying to myself that my ex has BPD, that because of my drinking the RS had failed. (what she always used against me)  But the fact is, that even when I sobered up for several years, it wasn't good enough.  NEver was.

But when you posted the talk about you becoming an immunologist and what she said to that, damn did that hit home.

I asked my ex if/when she was finished school would she help me out and pay some bills around the house so I could then focus on school, not have to work so much, and develop more of a RS with her and my son (school during day, work at night)

Her response: "Why so you can become successful and leave me for someone else?"

Now IF that was her fear talking and her TRULY being honest, why in the world would she go and replace me with a super wealthy rich and successful man?

Riddle me that... . ?