Told the ex uBPDgf about BPD

[In_n_Out]

So I got wind that my exuBPDgf broke up with my replacement (appears that he left her).  From reading the forums and the "Eggshells" book and other resources, I knew it would be coming and sure enough, at midnight last night she sent a message via facebook; just a breadcrumb.  I didn't respond.  This was literally hours after she was "abandoned" by the replacement.  Later today, I got an email.  I mentioned this in another thread but the email was full of "I remember this (good times) and how you would do this (bad things-to her)".  It concluded with a "Always-" and a "I'm going to go heal myself, I hope that you continue to do so as well" (paraphrasing).

So, I sent a reply.  No accusations, but I basically said that I've been seeing a therapist and suggest that she look in to seeing what she can offer as a relationship specialist.  Not for "us", but for herself and for her future relationships.  To see about breaking the pattern of short lived relationships that she's been in all of her life.  I did mention BPD and suggested that she look in to it; that I can't "diagnose" it but perhaps if she looks at the traits that a BPD exhibits, she may find some commonality.  I said that I have always had her best interests in mind (I have), that I would walk through fire for her and as a FRIEND, I am here if she needs to talk to someone who "understands". 

Her email alluded that perhaps she was going to go NC again (she went NC after she chose my replacement over me during our last recycle) and she has.  I sent a text asking her if she got my email because my email has been a bit flaky lately (it has and she knows it).  I also asked that she need to reply or do anything but an "ok" would be nice to let me know that she is ok.  No response.

I've moved on.  I've detached emotionally but still am going through the "I can help her stage" clearly.  I also know that telling someone that you suspect has BPD that you think that they have BPD is a big no-no but I felt that I had to let her know my suspicions.  I layed it out as gently as it could, validating her concerns (but not answering her accusations of my "bad" behavior) and telling her that I have my own issues to work out and this therapist has been helpful (true). 

So in others' experience, was/is telling the uBPD to look into the disorder because you suspect that they may exhibit some of those traits usually the death nail in the coffin?  If the only other thing that I ever heard about her was that she did seek help and is "better", I'd be great with that.  I don't want a romantic relationship with her again; I would never go back to that, but I do care about her outcome.  Thoughts?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[In_n_Out]

And this was her reply.  I feel like I may of just opened up Pandora's Box:

Yes, I am familiar with BPD... . it was suggested by my therapist back in 2007 that I may have clear signs of it.  When she told me initially - I was scared.  I thought I was crazy.  I didn't understand what it meant.  But she then explained that everyone has some kind of personality challenge... . that no one can be put into one exact/precise box.  And she reassured me that I wasn't crazy and that there was a way to overcome it.  And several years before that with another therapist I met through Safe Place and met with off and on for 5 years, who knew everything about my dad and mom and my childhood and my tumultuous and abusive string of unhealthy relationships and my fear of abandonment and my fight or flight response, and introduced me to Cognitive Behavioral Therapy.  I have the workbook, still.   I even attended a CBT support group for a month after a very painful break up and some self revelation and a new found strength to get well.  So, yes, I am familiar with these things you are telling me.  And, I think I can say and believe that I am not broken... . but that I experienced trauma and abandonment from a very early age.  And, so much more.  The peace that has been so elusive for me... . the failed relationships and job loss and homelessness is a cycle, yes.  And, I know that no one can fix it.  I have to do that.  God.  Me.  Hard work.  Courage.  Self-love.  Patience.  Faith.  Of course, actions speak louder than words.  I don't know when or why I stopped working with CBT.  I think I remember mentioning it to you at one point or another,  along with other self-help books.  Both for you and for me... .

So, you are realizing these things, learning these facts, reading, absorbing, trying to find understanding for yourself.  You seem to have found a place of peace and no more mourning. That's wonderful.  I am so happy for your new-found journey to healing, Gary.  Truly.  I will always love you.  My love for you is true and deep.  I hope you know that.  For the little boy in you who wanted so badly to make your dad proud... . for the young man in you who lost his mother much oh much too soon... . for the soul in you who just wants to be accepted and loved for who you are.  You are such a big part of me, now.  And, I want to honor this truth and the meaning it has brought to my life.  The good, the bad, and everything else in between.  I can honor it by being a better and whole and healed and happy Tanya.  So that none of this will ever have been in vain.  I don't know what the future holds for you and I.  If we were meant to be stepping stones (in the best sense) to a better Gary and a better Tanya, then so be it.  I stood outside tonight as I took out the trash... . and looked up at the sky... . and found Orion's belt... . so bright in the vastness of the night... . and I began to sing... . to you.  "You are my sunshine, my only sunshine.  You make me happy when skies are gray.  You'll never know, dear... . how much... . I love you.  Please don't take my sunshine away."

As ever,


Thoughts?

[Love Is Not Enough]

She is doing an amazing job trying to suck you back in. By admitting she may be struggling with this is planting the seed in you that she can get better. By dragging your pain out she is also trying to make you emotional so the seed will sprout and spurn another recycle. Do you have any idea how many others she may be doing this exact same thing with right now?

I am glad you have resolved not to recycle again. Please so whatever necessary to stick to it. I would definitely not meet up with her in person. It is great that she has some awareness about what is going on with her. Hopefully at some point it will help her make some changes.

You have opened the box, but you have to stay in control of the situation. Communicate with her from a distance at your own peril, but do not meet up with her for any reason. That's my advice.

[In_n_Out]

We talked on the phone for a couple of hours last night.  It was a constant mix of black and white thinking: "I love you.  I will always love you.  Always. I just want to come 'home' (back to me)" to "go find your happiness.  Let me heal (alone).  You hurt me.  I'm confused".  And that reads stright from the playbook.  So no plans to see her in person.  I do know that she broke up with my replacement (or he left her rather) but I of course have no idea what else she has cooking (or has cooked).  My heart wants to believe her; she sounds so sincere that she does want my happiness; but my head says that wasn't in love with "me" but the idea of "me" and when that idea didn't match up with her perfect guy, then she devalued me.

I just sent an email that says that if she will commit to getting the proper help, I will help her to get that help and *as a friend*, I will support her.  That now is not the time for a relationship of intimacy for her.  Not if she wants to get out of the 25+ year cycle of bouncing from guy to guy.  That I am now "aware" and so she doesn't have to worry about covering it up nor about me finding out and running away.  BUT, she has to commit to that and that I have boundaries.  If she does attempt to recycle with another ex or find some new "miracle worker" guy, then those actions will of spoken louder than any words and I will be gone - for good.  But she better be damned sure of what she wants first.  We'll see how that plays.  Could backfire (fine) or it could possibly work (?).  Who knows. 

[In_n_Out]

I appreciate your thoughts and advice, I do.

The following just occurred a half hour ago or so:

She just left.  I got a text saying that she's "parked outside, arguing with herself and it's cold".  I walked out the front door and she ran to meet me and gave me one of her hugs that almost take the air out of you.  It's cold and she wouldn't come inside (because it would be too upsetting for my son) so I got my car keys and we sat in the running car with the heater on. She wanted to say some things.

She said that she read my last note (where I indicated doubt that she really loved me) and she said that it's not just the little boy in me, that she does love me, with all of her heart and that she hopes that I understand that.  Then she said that she's going to do it; she's going back to her support group and is going to get counseling to help cope with this thing she has.  My heart skipped a beat, I was so happy to be hearing this.  She said that she needs to do this for her and I agreed, it has to be for her because she wants to - I told her.  Then she break my heart again "but I have to do this on my own.  You will understand but I can't have the distractions and I can't just be your friend". 

I told her that it is hard for me to understand but that I want to understand.  That I am so happy that she is understanding that she needs to do that for herself.  But I also said that I'm concerned of other distractions and temptations and I'm going to worry myself sick wondering if she just falls back in to the same routine after I'm long forgotten.  And she acknowledged that there would be distractions and challenges. 

We talked, reminisced, cried (a lot), hugged and kissed.  She said that it makes her sad to think of me finding somebody else but if I do, when I'm ready, that she better take care of me and do all the things that I like to do better than how she did it.  I told her that I didn't understand... . we're here crying for the love of each other yet... .   and she said that I'll understand some day that she has to do this without me.  That she has a good support group (her only two friends, both female).  I asked her (semi-jokingly) if this was just a fancy way to say the final farewell because I'd of rather her just say "f*** you, never ever call me again!" and she laughed and shook her head "no".  She said that this isn't goodbye, it's a "so long" and that I will hear from her again but that I must keep doing what I'm doing for myself; working out, my faith, healing. 

And I completely lost it as she stepped out of the car and I tried to utter the words to her that "my phone will always be on and by my bed for her.  That if she ever needs to hear my voice, if she ever needs her best friend, that she can call me".  And she said "we're going to do this, let's do this".  And she got in her car.  I sat in my sobbing for a moment and she slowly drove off but then stopped in the parking lot.  I got out of the car and she got out of hers and she yelled "Be strong!  This is a only a so-long".  And then she drove off.

So much of me wants to believe that she'll do as she said she is going to.  That she won't have set backs.  That she'll get better and then who knows?  That's my heart.  My rational mind says that she will have set backs and most likely will not follow through with the therapy.  She might not even start it but that this was her melodramatic way of saying a final goodbye.  That or she'll start coming around or contacting me again and want to start playing this back and forth stuff some more.  There's a very good chance that she's already got her sights on the next "donor".  I guess that this isn't for me to worry about that she probably won't be contacting me... . for a while at least... . until her next breakup.  But then she'll feel shame because she'll have to admit that she didn't go through with the therapy.  She mentioned that now that I know, she would be afraid that I would always try to "categorize" her, put her thoughts in to a "box" based on what I've been reading. 

I'm just numb right now.  Some relief.  Lots of sadness (crying as I type this).  Worry about this coming weekend and if I can even go through with meeting somebody right now in this state of mind (I have a date lined up with someone that I've been talking to for a while now).  I can't cancel on her, not if I ever want to meet or talk to her again.  I canceled once because of these same fears right before Christmas and she was not happy about it because like a dumbass, I sent it via text and told her the truth, that I felt that I wasn't ready nor over my breakup.  So I have a bunch of confusion. 

My dBPDx was so sincere with her words; how much she loves me and misses things that she listed off and how she takes a walk along the same path that we used to thinking of me.  I want to believe her, that that's true.  I want to believe everything that she told me but I know that I would be misguided in doing so.

Thanks for hearing my story.  A big part of me says that this will be it for some time or perhaps ever.  A bigger part of me says that this isn't the end of this story... . yet.

[In_n_Out]

And it just clicked but she said that she dropped out of therapy the last time, after aggressively following the program, because she had a boyfriend... .

[In_n_Out]

I'm no psychologist but I play one on TV... .

So after replaying last nights experience over and over and thinking about things she's said in the recent past, I'm figuring out more and more (or at least I think that I am).

-Her love of movies; I think I mentioned in this thread how she knows every line of the lead female character in dozens of movies that we watched together and no telling for how many overall.  I "get" that her acting out the movie is an "escape" from her reality to "happy ending" world.

Over and over, during the ending of the relationship the first time and after each of these "goodbye's" (we've had so many of them now) she always goes to the point of "me finding the one that will make me happy".  When she says it, her head will bow and she will have a look of sadness.  Perhaps we're role playing "When Harry met Sally" and my best friend Sally wants to find someone for me because she wants to see me happy and after we go through other relationships, we realize that it's each other that we truly want and I (Harry) comes running back to proclaim my love for her.  Case in point, when talking about her and my replacement she muttered (but I could hear her) that "she always thought that it was like the movies where true love comes back to find one another". 

Could she also suffer from Fantasy prone personality (FPP)?  That's not for me to decide but I'm playing "sleuth" now trying to unravel all of this as part of my closure.

Also, I mentioned in another thread here that her memory is photographic.  She has watched a home movie of me as a kid opening presents on Christmas morning and she years later she still knows what the toys were and what PJ's I was wearing.  She remembers things in quite graphic detail.  She has said of this ability "it is both a blessing and a curse".  Could this be Eidetic memory which is closely related to FPP?

I'm just posted thoughts here, not seeking answers per se but this is just all too fascinating to me.  It really is.  The unraveling of her mind.  You all will say that it's not healthy for me; that I just need to cut all contact and RUN.  I understand that.  Still, I can't help by being fascinated by all of this.

[pallavirajsinghani]

What is reality my friend?  What part of her is for real and what part is fantasy role playing?

To a BPD sufferer, all the world is a stage and they play different parts.  No one part is more real than the other.  THEY ALL ARE REAL... . AND THEY ALL ARE PARTS.

All of their feelings are real.  Except that these are not emotions, these are transitory feelings.  They are intense and they are real... . and they are transitory.  They are as tangible as the wisps of smoke that truly exists and is devoid of substance that can be captured and retained.

While you as a non, can have emotions (definition of emotions being feelings that can be sustained for a long term).

So, you can analyze her all you want, in any which way you want.  It will be like defining the color of water... . it will always elude you.

Now, if I may suggest another way of defining people--non or/and disordered:  That is to define them by the effect they have on you.  People who have a good effect on you should stay in your life and those who don't, should not stay in your life.

Your altruism is misplaced my friend, please reconsider your definition of friendship as well.

How about we define friendship in another way:  Friendship means two people consciously, deliberately and in a sustained manner strive and seek to create beautiful memories together.  This can be romantic, non-romantic, sharing mutual hobbies, events, walks, conversations... .

Friendship should not be considered synonymous to enabling (financial, physical, emotional... . ).

Energy is limited my dear, for we are biological beings with limited resources.  Time is limited, we are restricted by our finances, social status, geographical location, physical attributes... . these means are not to be squandered.

Your altruism is noble.  One definition of insanity is,  "absence of altruism".  Clinician you are not.  You have no training in how to heal a disordered person.  Standing by her would typically result in you being an enabler and your role may actually hamper her recovery. 

So please do not become her crutch.  That does not mean supporting a person.  Be her friend, strive to share some good moments... . and walk out of anything other than that... .

God Bless... .

[In_n_Out]

Thank you for that enlightening post!

Well, she truly amazes me.  We spoke last night and she emphasized how hard that this is for her, that she does love me and then she said "Why not?  Let's meet up 6mths from now... . at (where we had our first date)... . on Saturday, July 26th at 7:30PM... . and just sit together and have some gelato... . and talk... . and just see what happens.  I'll be there.  I will wait for you in a black dress and a smile."

Perfect idea. 

She later sent a text saying that she found some of her old notes and had this quote jotted down.  A note that she had intended to share with me some time ago:

"Healing may not be so much about getting better, as about letting go of everything that isn't you - all of the expectations, all of the beliefs - and becoming who you are." - Rachel Naomi Remen.

So, we'll see where we are at in 6 months.  She wants NC; I live my life, she lives hers and then we see.  What else can you do-