I want to run away

[elemental]

Things have been really bad recently.

I am kind of in a quandry.

Boyfriend went off again and spent the  night at his ex's. Whole night. It was super cold, -5 F with a strong wind. He braved it all to go see the kids, and of course the trip back just couldn't be done. Blah blah. Part of me is sympathetic, bigger part of me right now is mad, tired of it, what boundry can I do here?

He seems pretty stitched up and no matter what , ex has control. For now, as he has nothing in the works for being able to change things.

Anyway, he decided while he was gone to keep skype open. No blocking. However silent treatment continues. I know he feels he is doing it for me, so if I say something, he can come see me there. Or just come look and see I AM there.

I have a problem, though. I don't want to be there. His silent treatment is very hard on me. I have said a few things and have been totally ignored. I know he feels he has communicated why he is not saying anything. He is mad or feels so bad he doesn't want to speak to me.

Well, I think he is being unfair. He wants me available while he is staying over at his ex's. And recently we have had discussions about him blocking me, closing skype, disappearing on me. So now it is open. It's open but he sets himself on "offline" so I can't see him coming and going. The only way I can tell is if I say something. Which he is ignoring. I feel SO screwed with. Maybe I am paranoid.

So he knows I am upset about the overnight. Last one was on the 1st. So he is generally limiting it to about 1 time every 2-3 weeks.

I want to just disappear. I don't want to end the relationship, and it is true I don't have to talk either and can go about my business... . but. I feel so upset and anxious and I am really upset about the silent treatment. He could argue he is just trying to do what I want, which is BE THERE and available, but what good does it do me when he refuses to respond.

I am not at our house. I am at mom's. I don't even want to be available on skype to him. But it seems kind of crappy to block him. I feel humiliated that I did try to and he totally ignored me all weekend. I feel like I am being so jerked around. I feel really sad for it and I want to slam the door completely in his face for it for at  least 2 weeks of NC.

It may sound tit for tat, but I feel really used and messed with and minimized, disrespected. I am expecting this being inflicted on me over and over and I just feel such humiliation.

I feel like a bug someone pinned down but hasn't killed.

Does anyone "get" what I am saying?

And thing is, if I go NC 2 weeks, when I come back it will be time for ANOTHER visitation. He is completely ignoring my upset about the overnights at this point. I feel really disrespected.

Any advice? I want to feel better. And hide. I am tired of having this coming at me and need a break.

And though he insists otherwise, I am scared he is sleeping with her. It doesn't make sense, giving what he keeps saying about his feelings, what his intentions are and what he wants from things. But I heard that all before and then he DID cheat on me. I am getting so anxious about it, I don't want to be there.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[elemental]

someone answer PLEASE.

He talked briefly on skype and said *I* am upsetting HIM because I am upset when I talk to him. But he won't leave skype. He didnt say he won't. He normally blocks me and I WISH he would.

I told him, just leave skype and take some time to himself to calm down.

HE WON'T LEAVE.  He WON'T ANSWER. What is the point of him doing this? I don't normally block people. I am getting massively freaked out. Do *I* just block him? I feel like he is messing with me. I DONT UNDERSTAND.

What I mean is normally when he is upset at me, he runs off, blocks me all over. I have actually gotton to the point where I would RATHER he did than what he is doing, which is sitting there giving me the silent treatment after complaining that I am upsetting him if I say something. what the heck is this. I am starting to feel like he is having a breakdown.

I offered him officially space. Shut down the skype link and he take a week or whatever to calm down, then when he is ready to interact again, come BACK and let me know he is ready to. That way it removes the aspect of me offending him by trying to talk to him, and removes the abusive aspect towards me of the silent treatment. He did btw, tell me last week he KNOWS it is damaging and abusive. And HE is not doing that. 

[elemental]

I blocked him. I don't know if it is right or wrong, but it feels horribly vile to be sitting there with this happening.

I don't know what to do.

[pecia]

I am sorry you are having such a distressing time. Bpd folks are often very contradictory. I have learned that I have to do what makes me happy. If he wants to be mean and ignore me- fine. I will just busy myself with something I enjoy till he cools down. One thing I have learned is that my husband cannot tolerate my distress. When I am upset - it makes him worse. Just try to soothe yourself. You cannot help him if you are upset yourself. Boundaries are hard. They will push them. If it is a deal breaker boundary then u have to make that known and stick to your guns. If you want the relationship bad enough you may have to look in to radical acceptance of the way things are. More than likely he will never be able to validate you. They are often times not empathetic, although sometimes my husband can be sympathetic- just not about things that stir him up. Hang in there. Take a minute to yourself. - pecia

[maxen]

hi elemental. that's a horrible situation you're in and you did right thing. it sounds as if he is just messing with you.

in the long term:

He is completely ignoring my upset about the overnights at this point. I feel really disrespected.

Any advice? I want to feel better. And hide. I am tired of having this coming at me and need a break.

do you want to feel this way? i'm mimicking my T now, but a relationship shouldn't have this dynamic. i know that can be a hard lesson to learn, i'm having to learn it myself.

[elemental]

I have a cold or something, maybe my capacity is down. I have the diabetes, and my head is spinning from high blood sugar. I am starting to realize that is a big clue when I am getting too stressed.

I was lying in bed thinking wow, I am so upset, I am JADEing myself in my own thread.

I am calmer now, so I think I can respond sensibly.

I feel disrespected because of the silent treatment. In fact, something new to the situation from my end in the last few weeks is I feel *humiliated* by how he is treating me.

His response is he doesn't want to speak to me because I am breaking his nerves., I upset him, then he stops talking/reading... . starts to calm down,  I say something upsetting to him, and as he listens/reads, he gets upset again and doesn't want to talk to me. He says it is a vicious circle.

At this point I am so upset by this, which has been going on since late October, nearly anything I say is upset ( not mean, just distressed from the prior contact). Pecia, your point about him maybe being like your husband is making sense. My boyfriend cannot handle my upset if it has anything at all to do with anything close to us in our lives.

The overnight thing in my head goes from "due to the circumstances" of how he has gotton himself painted into a corner, what else can he do... . to I am feeling so tired of all of the stupidty that I often think "what the heck, who DOES these drama perpetuating things all over the place?" I am trying to step back from it to gain some perspective.

And probably it is right that I am resistent to really accepting he may have BPD. He is NOT diagnosed with it, and I have suspected for about 3+ years, but I figured it was ME being paranoid. No one will ever get this guy into a psych doc or therapist at this point and maybe never, he is extremely resistent to the thought. He does say he has a lot wrong with him, but mainly his method of dealing with it is to play video games/online gaming. He doesn't want to talk about it. He wants left alone to distract himself.

I guess I just take the break. I informed him what I was doing and my intention for it and when I would  be back. In the meantime, if he really needs to find me, he can.

And after all of what I just wrote... . I also still think he is messing with me and is being punitive and trying to distress and control me. I don't like it. From now on, every time he does it, I am going to shut it down, and leave for a period of time.  I am not trying to force him to have some big conversations, but he only started getting worse and worse this way in the last couple of years, and I find it so upsetting that if I am placing myself in the way of it, it eventually drives me into such a state of panic and rage, I have a full meltdown that takes me days to recover from.

And maybe that is a streak of unhealthy behavior in ME.

If I could totally control anything in all of this, it would be for me always to stay totally cool about it all and simply disengage back without any uproar and go about my business in a calm and comfortable way. I have literally been feeling this man is torturing me on purpose, despite his claims of upset. He is upset, YES, but he knows how damaging he is being, he told me he knows silent treatment is really damaging and destructive. He isn't doing that, he just doesn't want to talk to me.

I could  never, seeing a loved one distressed, sit silently and ignore them. Not EVER.   

[123Phoebe]

If I could totally control anything in all of this, it would be for me always to stay totally cool about it all and simply disengage back without any uproar and go about my business in a calm and comfortable way. I have literally been feeling this man is torturing me on purpose, despite his claims of upset. He is upset, YES, but he knows how damaging he is being, he told me he knows silent treatment is really damaging and destructive. He isn't doing that, he just doesn't want to talk to me.

I could  never, seeing a loved one distressed, sit silently and ignore them. Not EVER.   

Hi elemental,

And there you have it! 

Blah, so sorry to hear you're experiencing the aftermath of blechy BPD behavior from your bf.

This is what happens though.  He does things that bother you.  You get (understandably) upset.  How upset do you get?  How upset does it make you?  Enough to want to run away.  How far?  Forever far?  For how long does that feeling last?

What if he never ever changes?  Can you accept this behavior?  Not suggesting that you should or shouldn't, just wondering where you're sincerely at in all of this. 

[elemental]

Hi Phoebe

I don't start off all that upset. I mean I feel upset, but I am under control, calm, polite.  He constantly has an upset "buzz" going. He has explained to me that things in general for him have gotton so bad inside himself that the slightest thing sets him off. He treats everyone this way, not just me.


How long does the feeling last? I am living immersed in a neverending stew of guilt and being blamed. It's like lately, all he wants is to make sure I am there, so he can ignore me. If I try to sort it, he ramps it up.  I feels so absolutely humiliated, my dignity and self respect are eroding. He shames me constantly for even speaking because it upsets him.

I don't even know what to do at this point except disappear. The thought of trying to talk to him makes me want to shriek. Not because I can't talk to him, but because of the unending blaming and head screwing followed by weeks of silent treatment.

When he is calmer, its way better, but I think due to his unresolved custody issues and the way his ex is forcing him around, he is feeling such a sense of of powerlessness, he is taking it out on me. Just a theory.

I am really upset. Sorry. I  guess I need at least a week to be able to speak to  him again and be able to withstand being ignored if he refuses a response.


I don't even WANT to try talking to him even in a week, but I said I would come back and touch base. I know for a fact he won't say a word to me on his own.

I think there is hope here to establish some calm, and build from there, but I am not sure it will be any time soon.

If he wasn't doing disappearing acts and total silent treatment, yes, I can handle  him around the house when he is withdrawn. Or needs his own headspace or whatever. It's the whole mess of his life being directed at ME and punishing ME for it.

He told me last week to stop blaming him for my demons. What? My demons are not the reason this situation is ramped so far up. Anyone would be upset tremendously to have been on the receiving side of everything that has happened.

I guess first thing I need is just to calm down a while without him doing nonsensical BPD things around me. I WANT it to be better, but he refuses to cooperate on the slightest level where he is not given 100% control of it all. It's not healthy.

[PacifistMom]

My brain is drained too elemental, no advice to offer but to say I feel your pain and humiliation am sending loads of strength and peace vibes your way. I always find January to March to be he** on earth. Post-holiday, cabin fever, SAD ... . Whatever it is it's always BPD central around here but more so during the dead of winter.

I know what you mean about the constant upset buzz. If you run away I might join you.

[elemental]

I think I look weak to him because I have been showing a lot of pain, so he has contempt for me.

[waverider]

Is the stress caused by his behavior or your own inability to choose a course of action and stick to it?

What do you think you could do to take back control of your own destiny?

Are you disappointed in yourself for not having the strength to be decisive?

You know what he is doing, but you maybe have no idea what you are doing and that is triggering the stress reaction. Is this leading to you JADEing to yourself.

[elemental]

Waverider,

I am desperate to stop my own reactions. I am on an emotional and mental rollercoaster.

I have read every lesson on the site.  I don't have any arguments with the lessons. I read about acceptance, self care, detachment, enforcing boundries, wise mind. I went off site and looked at dbt. I went through online dbt sessions for myself. I studied bhuddism. I want so badly to just be kind, have compassion, live my life in reality, have empathy and consideration for how hard it is for other people like my boyfriend, too.

I am constantly beating myself up for being so upset over things.  I know if I just stayed calm most of the time, things with him would rapidly improve. I know, it seems so simple. Stay calm, get what you want. After all that has happened, I seem to have lost a lot of capacity to be how I was before the affair.  I was so happy, I smiled so much I was getting new wrinkles under my eyes.

I am stressed by his behavior. Considerably.

If I could stay calm and detached, then I could respect myself. He has flipped me around all over the place in the last year with the walking out, blocking me, hanging up on me. The silent treatment. If I see it happening I just want it not to tear me to bits the way has been.

Of course I am disappointed in myself.  I get told all the time that I am "substandard". Any upset I show I am told "you have always been a troublemaker", or I am ignored, or told that all I do is think about myself. And I JADE back saying, wait a minute, remember that I took a lot and I supported you, I  gave second chances,  picked myself up dozens of times... and you are calling me selfish and that I worry too much about myself instead of worry about how badly I am treating other people... what did I DO except get upset and tell you I was?

I am JADEing you

What I am doing? What I see is that I am not staying detached, remembering to self care and my brain gets caught into a ramping up loop that has me trying to talk to him when he decided he doesn't want to talk to me.

It's why I shut down skype today. I know I am caught in a loop and I need to break it. At the moment I don't even trust myself. I know he wouldn't have said anything to me, but I know I probably would have said something to him and he would have ignored and I would have gone another round which keeps us in the loop.

I don't think a week is long enough for me to break out of this.  Though Tony Robbins says all it really takes to change is a split second.

[waverider]

Do you feel like you have information/lesson overload?

What is good about his RS, that is keeping you hooked?

Maybe you do need a longer break, you seem to have lost focus and perspective

[elemental]

Yes. It's an overload. Overwhelmingly I feel like ( and am being told ) that I am failing so badly, I am losing the one I love by my own actions.  I am too upset right now to be able to apply the lessons because I cannot stay calm or "sit with it" when he has access to me.

I am still here because we had some very good years. I know he would choose differently if he could change things. And he really is stitched up by his ex right now. I guess I have been erring on the side of compassion, but I am so afraid and hurt and angry, I can't sustain it when added provocation shows up.

I told him I would check in with him in a week or so. I think he would be ok with longer if it means we could push beyond the current conflict.

[waverider]

Maybe you need to just concentrate on breathing space at the moment

[123Phoebe]

I told him, just leave skype and take some time to himself to calm down.

I apologize for not addressing other things you've graciously shared with the board, this one just jumped out at me.

When I want to tell him off or tell him to do something or or... .   It's better if I calm my own self down first, before any yucky words are spewed from my mouth   In a way it's projecting my own inner feelings onto him and expecting him to jump to, when I can't regulate myself.  I cannot expect him to regulate me, to make me feel okay, as it's my own stuff that needs a closer look and tending to.  That's not to say I'm wrong for feeling the way I do, it's just that when I'm in a heightened agitated state, my message will not be conveyed or received the way it is intended.  It will come off as pretty black or white, all or nothing.  I need time to find the full colors in the spectrum.

It's okay to tell him this, too.  That I need a little time to find my center.

[elemental]

One of the main things I felt attracted to when I met him was that he seemed so calm and stable. Emotionally astute. I was impressed with it, along with a variety of characteristics he had that I truely felt attuned to. It wasn't that he was the BPD "mirror" to me. It was that he was exactly himself, and I loved it.

Then all of the fight with his ex wife, once she realized I was there. He was a gentle and kind man and he frayed in front of my eyes into this person that was being manipulated, guilted, shamed... . as a result of that, he began doing things to try and find relief from the relentless attacks on him, he felt such guilt, it was eating him up and it scared me.

Hence the increasing trips to his ex's to try and be more a father, then it was shaming for failing as a husband. He appeared to me to be in such torment.  That is where we started arguing. He had asked me to marry him and I was expressing doubts, becoming more vocal in my own pain and fear. He got so sucked back in to the situation with his ex, the affair happened. He has run back out of it, majorly damaged and having caused damage to our relationship and me. What keeps it going is his dashes back into the hell of it a couple of times a month. I think he feels he is doing what is best for the kids, but it is a phyrric event every time. It re-injures me and all he hears while he is at his ex wifes is what he has always heard: he needs to come back and re-marry,  she wants sex and 2 more kids, he is failing as a father, he is failing as a husband   though they are not married. So I have been scared to death he would be weak again, and my upset ... . upsets him.  Gordian knot, vicious circle. Ad nauseum.

Whew.  I am just saying what I think is the foundation of the troubled things in my life and his.

Beyond that, he has stated repeatedly that he cannot help me very much because of the struggle HE has daily to even stay stable himself.  

I am embarressed to say this, but I think in the interest of improving things and to his credit, he HAS communicated to me much of the same things you are, Phoebe. To step away, take a break, go do the things I love, break the unproductive thought processes and move my head out of HIS problems.

I get so frustrated because though I know he is right, I am so angry at that after what has happen and he is matter of fact and logical, while I am hurting so badly and want... babied some, told how glad he is that I am still here, thank you for trying to move beyond the horribleness of it and still love him.  I never hear it. What I hear is "you have made my life a living hell."  Really? I made HIS life bad?

Then he sees this advice is not being taken and I am getting more upset and afraid at his actions, he starts jerking me around... not showing up, walking out, hanging up on me... and then I get REALLY vocal until I realize I am in a spiral. At that point he bails on me and I am left alone to pull it together.

All of this emotional thought process. I am not recognizing the point where it crosses over. That is, Phoebe, I understand entirely what you are saying, and THIS is what I have hoped to achieve from being here. If I stay calm, HE stays calm.

Anyway that is what is going through my brain today. That and that my saving grace will need to be me finding that center of calm for myself. My boyfriend would be totally on board with that. Probably he is sitting there right now, grateful for the space he is getting too, and not daring to hope that I will come back calm and STAY calm.  

I need to be able to sustain it. How are you able to? Advice welcome and probably my job to really figure out for my self.

[123Phoebe]

Anyway that is what is going through my brain today.

elemental, that's a lot going on in your brain

To sustain it, you have to mean it.  To have more going on in your life than the whackadoo stuff he's doing.  That when you see it coming, you're gone.  Not bailing on him necessarily, but protecting yourself with the shield that's YOUR life.  Your interests, your friends, your business to take care of. That's what I do anyway  

Your life, happiness and wellbeing has to come before the relationship.  I had to get a life!   I didn't have one that did not revolve around the person I was with.  I'm talkin' real interests that pertained to me.  What do I even like?  I sure knew what I didn't. 

The more involved with yourself you get, the easier it becomes to move away from the yucky stuff.  It's just like, YUCK!   Who needs yuck in their life?

Not one of the things learned here is to get someone else to behave the way we'd like them to... .   It's to find out who we are   For us, for what is in our ability to change, and hopefully get through to them on a level they can understand.  And when we put some of these tools to good use, things change for the better no matter what happens with our partners.  They get to decide for themselves.

I apologize for not knowing the details of your bf's divorce.  What sort of custody agreement was made?

[elemental]

His ex has 100% custody. Basically he was in such a state of upset from years of abuse and head games, that he felt not able to to deal with being around her and her family. By the time it was done, he had not challenged or asked for anything. He just ran away and hid.

When we met, there was a period of time where she didn't know about me. So she had sort of become a bit laid back about it. Then she found out about me and immediately became urgently interested in getting him back. The kids have been used ever since as leverage.

In the last year he has made some weak attempts to sort some official visitation, but backs down as soon as his ex starts ramping up the drama. He doesn't have very much spare cash and just sort of gives up the fight. He is also very anxious that the children will be emotionally harmed. Ex doesn't pull any punches and she pretty much says if the kids are upset, it is HIS fault and my fault because they are a family and he just needs to come back home.

I am going to focus on stabilizing myself. I have other issues in my background, aside from this relationship that are troubling me. FOO things and the problem with my son. My health. I just kind of decided that other people can take care of themselves. It's not some big epiphany, I am tired. I know who I am, what I love, and so on. I guess I just kind of got so caught up in everything else, I stopped living my life because all of the bandwidth has been getting taken up elsewhere.