How to regain myself

[Lilibeth]

Have just moved over from L1. I found healing there and acceptance, and have started on my journey to get myself back. Over these last 26 years, trying to make sense of the situation i found myself in, i think i've lost a great deal of who i am, and worse, keep questioning the 'this is not you' or 'this is you' thoughts that come up. My self-esteem and feelings of self-worth are non-existent. I am 62. Mike reassured me, i am not too old to give up - i don't want to give up. I want to find myself, deal with my BPD husband and find a measure of peace and happiness... .

I am studying 'Walking on Eggshells' which is where i first came across this wonderful family.

Continued from introductory post

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=217691.0

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[waverider]

 

Glad you found us Lilibeth.

Are there any specific issues at the moment that are getting under your skin, boundaries you would like to erect even?

Do you need to develop more space to think about "your stuff" maybe?

Is neediness an issue in your RS?

One of the first things we try to do is strip everything back so that we are not just swatting at symptoms but discover what are some of the underlying core issues and focus on them. First things first if you like.

What would help you believe in yourself?

Lots of questions I know. You dont have to answer them all just prompts to help you to find a start. lets see were it leads.

[Legacymaker]

Hi Lilibeth

I'm over on L3, but just wanted you to know I was thinking about you!

Hope you are okay.  We're all still here for you!

[sadinsweden]

Hi Lilibeth,

Boy, are we on the same page! I'm no expert but I'm happy to share some of the thoughts and revelations I've discovered in my own search for self. I'm still working very very hard at attempting to regain myself and it's a journey. I think it's also something you have to be very firm about ... . maybe even more so than with the boundaries we set for our BPDs. The goals we set for ourselves are paramount!

Living with someone who has such a serious mental illness as BPD is a tough road. We can take care of them, validate them, love them, comfort them, and these measures may work much of the time or completely fail at times. I know that in order to help my uBPDso, I MUST take care of myself. I do this not just for him, but because I love the person I used to be, and I believe in the person I will become. And god knows, you need the personal strength that comes from self care! For the record, I am 52 years old. It is never ever too late to give up on yourself. 

Since moving to Sweden, and discovering that my guy is very possibly BPD (I say this because he is undiagnosed), I realized that I was going to have to make some changes. The verbal abuse, the drinking, the physical abuse (which has stopped completely since this last summer), the character assassination, the CrAzY ... . it took it's toll on me and completely confused me. I felt as if I was only 20% of the person I once was two years ago. I had to ask myself, "Seriously... . I MOVED to Sweden for this s**t?" With the tools and support here on this forum, I came to a few conclusions.

The first question, as Waverider pointed out, is to ask yourself, "What do I want?" or "What do I need?". Seems like such a simple question, doesn't it? But it's the root of regaining your own personal vision and path to freedom. The answer to this could be just to be able to have some time and space to sort things out. It could be to take a great bubble bath every Saturday night, or even to get back to some of the hobbies and interests you once had. But once discovering what it is that makes you feel good, stick to it. Hold on to those ideals, and needs, with a firm and determined hand and heart. Set up the boundaries that will allow you to continue on your path. Remember YOU! Relax, meditate, go for a walk, discover a new passion. But this takes time. It's a process. Baby steps. And it almost will (maybe) become like a full time job. But this job is focused on you and your needs. It's hard work, but it's good work.

I got a handful when I moved to Sweden. Not only was I dealing with issues of BPD, but I was also dealing with issues of what it meant to live in a new country. Culture shock. Learning everything from what temperature to cook my chicken at, to how to run a European washing machine, to learning about a new culture, people, and language. Rebuilding my business and trying to settle in to what was sometimes a very difficult new life and life style ... . it was overwhelming. It still often is. But the one thing I discovered I could hold on to, without a doubt, despite all the changes, the learning, the BPD, the culture shock, the assimilation, the isolation ... . the one thing I could count on was myself! You can do this too. And I just want to say, this mindset is not a selfish thing. It's survival. And it will help not only yourself but your BPD husband as well.

The support on this board is amazing. I do not think I would have made it through, or learned what I needed to learn without the tools and people here. Welcome Lilibeth. It's going to get better.

[Lilibeth]

Waverider, there were many replies on the other link that i need to keep reading and referring. How can i bring them on to this one? or is there a way i can continue to access that page just for reference? Please help!

[Lilibeth]

Thank you, Sadinsweden for your words of comfort. Thank you specifically for your words 'I do this... . because i love the person i used to be, and believe in the person i will become.' I am just beginning to find the person i used to be... . I also needed to know that taking care of myself was not selfish. It is the character assassination that still hurts especially when it comes in a veiled sentence. I still react badly to that because i know i am not what he is saying or implying i am. Walking on Eggshells says that my BPD husband's behaviour is not about me. You cannot imagine how i am hanging on to that sentence.

Lovely, lovely to catch up with you here Legacymaker. I too think of you and hope things are slowly becoming clearer to you as they are to me. It is absolutely because i know i have support here that i am getting the strength to go ahead.

It is serenity towards what i am trying to move, Gregory. Being here is making me look at myself. The trouble is that since for so long even what i think and feel have got so pushed down, maybe even deadened, that pulling them out is painful. What i'm finding is that there are things that i too need changed, but i don't want to add to the criticism of myself by myself to the already piled up criticism. So have to find a way of dealing with that.

Right now, Waverider, what is helping me to begin believing in myself is the fact that you, DreamFlyer99 and others are writing in to me and encouraging me to go on this journey of self-discovery since i will have to do this in order to deal with my husband's BPD. In this morning's reading of Walking on Eggshells, i came across this - that i need to stop reacting to the behavior emotionally and start learning from it. Which means learning what not to do and to change what i do which is bringing grief all around. Is that it?

I get caught here, Waverider and DreamFlyer99 - i can sense from his vibes that he is going to go off any moment and that completely jams me up inside - it's as if i totally freeze - and then i start babbling, knowing fully that my talk is merely going to make things worse, while all the time i'm screaming in my head and heart please God don't let this happen, please don't let him go off... . As it is i have to extremely careful of what i say and how i say it and what intonation i am using etc... . but when i know he is just a hairline away from flipping over, all this goes for a six and the next word i say finishes it... . at first i couldn't stand the silence, and periodic taunts - now i can sort of handle that... . but i must not jam up inside. Must not... .

[waverider]

Waverider, there were many replies on the other link that i need to keep reading and referring. How can i bring them on to this one? or is there a way i can continue to access that page just for reference? Please help!

I have added a link to that thread to your first post in this thread. Just click that link and it will open your first thread to help you cross reference.

We try to avoid getting too bogged down in problem solving on the Introductions Board.

Think of that board as having a chat with the reception staff, now you are in the Specialists Doctors rooms...

[Lilibeth]

Thank you Waverider. Needed that... .

[Lilibeth]

Waverider, hope i'm not bugging you - there are a couple of posts from DreamFlyer99 on https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=217691.new;topicseen#new

I'd kind of strayed on to that page before coming here. Would it at all be possible to link that page too with this, Waverider, please?

[waverider]

Lilibeth don't panic too much there is a lot to learn and it will evolve slowly. Learning to believe in yourself and your right not to be drawn into conflict and its consequences is really the first, and possibly the hardest, step. It will take a while and you will upset the apple cart many times before you get there.

Reactive behavior and thinking, as you are reading is what causes us to make things far worse than they need be. We see and react to what is in front of our faces. But these issues are usually just symptoms rather than causes.

He does A you react with B the consequence is C

Next time you do the same hoping things will be different this time, but its not. A then become automatically linked with the fear of pending C.

A belongs to him. B belongs to you C belongs to you both.

So you have to learn not to do B. But what should you do instead? Often the answer is nothing. Without your input, ownership of A does not get transformed into joint ownership of C.

C may still happen but it is his own stuff. It will not rip you apart as much, nor will it be as gratifying for him. Hopefully he will learn that he doesn't like C and gets no relief by attempting to share ownership with you.

You are stepping out of the cycle.

This was my road to recovery, my partner is still is full blown BPD. Now it is transformed to acting in, no longer acting out on me. This led to her acceptance of it. We no longer have extreme conflict. In fact any conflict is usually started and ended by me as I no longer have fear of it. As is found in healthy relationships.

There was a whole lot of extreme drama on the road to this position though they do not like being left holding their own stuff.

[waverider]

Waverider, hope i'm not bugging you - there are a couple of posts from DreamFlyer99 on https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=217691.new;topicseen#new

I'd kind of strayed on to that page before coming here. Would it at all be possible to link that page too with this, Waverider, please?

Second pages of the same thread dont need a link. Just go to original thread and click on page 2. Too many links just cause confusion. (In fact you just added it in this post)

By the way if you want to find any of your old posts at any time. Click your id that will take you to your profile page (same with anyone's id),  this contains a link to posting history. Its a quick way to find any previous posts by anyone, especially if you can't remember what thread they were posted in.

[DreamFlyer99]

Lilibeth,

what Waverider said:

There was a whole lot of extreme drama on the road to this position though they do not like being left holding their own stuff.

I knew this could happen as I started changing how I responded to things. Just like you said, when you feel that vibe coming on and then you start to talk and talk, I have so been there! And the path is never truly straight, there will always be times when we fall back into our old ways of reacting--I did just before the holidays. Thankfully my T (therapist) helped me see what was happening, so it became a good learning point for me and I was able to stop it.

Any time our behavior, especially in such a long r/s (relationship,) changes, there will be ripples. But it works just like Waverider said, where it takes time and evolves slowly. I know that once I read particular tools for communication I would post a question on how I could have used that tool on a particular event that had recently happened. On this board we are at all different levels of learning and practice, so asking the question on the board is a great way to get input from others. And it's a practice thing like anything else, learning new ways to think.

Often I have found the same thing as Waverider mentioned, where my response may be to say nothing, not react at all. And sometimes when we feel that vibe coming on might be when we tell our H that we need to get our walk in. I know getting out of the house and feeling the air is healing and restorative for me, and helps me clear my head.

The lessons on the right side of this page are a great starting point to work through as well.

Keep posting! it really helps me to write things out.

[waverider]

If you try any of the suggestions on this board, and you make a stuff of it. Don't worry there will be a next time (unfortunately). Don't guilt yourself. You will never get things 100% right, and even if you do there are still no guarantees. But you will still be further forward than you are now

[Lilibeth]

Thank you Waverider and DreamFlyer99. Yes, there is the guilt angle too which tends to pull me back. You see i married him thinking that it would bring stability to the life my little daughter and i were battling in. He always tells me that i should be grateful for that - however, when i do think about it, i see that i've had to do a lot more giving in... . i don't mind that, am not about to do a checks and balances - i needed to get my daughter on her feet and that is done... . i was reassured by Turkish and DreamFlyer99 that my being abused has not damaged my daughter. Though there is no physical abuse, she still sees me at the receiving end of verbal hits. I'm learning to manage that now... . but yes, when things become all right, i think back with guilt - oh i should have been more charitable, and not lost it, or maybe i should be more accommodating of his temper, or... . and on and on. Now that my daughter is on her own, has her own little home, i see how far away from myself i've gotten... . and i want at least a part of that back... . till my daughter left home my energies were only focussed on seeing to it that the home ran smoothly, or as smoothly as possible... . but now i see i have only a fractured me to fall back on. Talking with my husband means getting bogged down my two things - his total negativity - everyone is rubbish and everything is rubbish, and the turning of things to himself - no matter what we talk about, it always ends up being about him... . After the conversation is over, i see that i could have been more accommodating... . but most of the time i can hardly get a word in. Yet, when it comes to a crisis at work, he trusts me enough to listen to what i have to say regarding what he needs to do... .

It's the same with the lies i have to tell if i need to get out a bit. He does not like me even talking to the neighbors... . I know it must be sounding foolish that i feel guilt over the little lies i need to tell if i want to do little things for myself - i do make sure it is not harming him or the home in any way... . but then the guilt kicks in and i feel confused. I also know that if i just stay in the home without any outside contact, it becomes so stifling.

Entangled... . totally... . guilt is really a dreadful thing to deal with over the temper, and negativity... .

[DreamFlyer99]

Lilibeth,

I used to tell people that my H's negativity was gonna kill me! I've even told him that. From where I am now I can look back and see that I was so affected because I hadn't yet come to the full understanding of my separateness, my individual self. So I was still soaking up his feelings like a sponge.

I've always been very feeling based, if that makes sense. Like my memories of childhood, often where my sister would remember the actual facts of an event I would remember the event more by "oh yes I remember I was so happy and the sun was shining and... . " So I think it was natural for me to soak up the feelings, good or bad, of others. But it becomes too much of a burden on our body, and I finally developed some physical issues from it.

Fortunately I have a T (therapist) who understands the whole BPD thing and understands me and the way I'm made, so she's coached me along into a much better understanding of what I'm responsible for and what I'm not. I've always had a hard time with someone's BIG feelings, whoever it is, and I would go back into my child-learned people pleasing and try to sooth. But I finally understand how much I need to step back, assess the situation and realize "ah! this is THEIR feeling and they're allowed to have it." Then I can give a sigh of relief that I don't need to "fix" it, and that indeed their own job as an adult is to learn to sooth themselves, just like a baby learns to sooth itself at naptime.

My jumping in to my H's Big Feeling just meant that he wasn't learning to sooth himself, I was actually keeping him from growing up in that area! And that doesn't mean I abandon him, I can validate that I understand he feels that way. TOOLS: Stop Invalidating Your Partner (or the BPD person in your life)

I used to go "why do you have to look at things so NEGatively?" (rolling of eyes.) Which, as you can imagine, did not improve anything about the situation.   

Learning to validate his feelings required me first learning that we are 2 separate beings each with our own personalities and likes and dislikes and feelings. And we should each get to have those feelings etc. Just because my H can be so negative doesn't mean I'm not a positive person, it just means we have those differences. Do you know what I mean?

I'm also familiar with that "everything is ultimately about me" thing, but I wonder if since a pwBPD has a shaky sense of self, all the talking about self is a way to try to define who they are, I don't know. I'm no psychologist... .

I've been uncomfortable about what I've thought of as "lies" too, for instance my H knows nothing of this site. But it has gone a long way toward helping me communicate better with him. A lot of our guilt is a false guilt that rises out of some unhealthy beliefs we have had about everyone else in the universe coming first before us. But if we think about it in terms of the oxygen mask talk by flight attendants where they say "if you are traveling with a small child be sure to put on your own oxygen mask before you assist with theirs." And why? because if we don't put ours on first and go to take care of theirs we will be passed out on the floor and no help to anyone.

The entangling slowly untangles, since like Waverider says, it takes time, this relearning to have a more healthy r/s, and it unfolds as we go along. It will begin happening, it takes patience and practice.

Another thought: why don't you ask how others deal with the negativity by starting a new topic here on the Staying Board? I'd be interested to see that as well!

[waverider]

Lilibeth just a further tip on making best use of this site, as DreamFlyer99 says, if you have specific areas of concerns feel free to open separate threads for each aspect to discuss them in turn. It will increase the responses you get and keep them more issue specific.

You will get the hang of it

[Lilibeth]

DreamFlyer99, unbelievable but true - i too used to say the same things-that his negativity was killing me. You know, ever since i came here i've not said that even once. And, i'd like to share something with you and Waverider - i've just gone through hours of negativity and self talk; he used all the words that have in the past rocketed me off on the one hand and left me feeling drained and sad and broken on the other, but today i just kept telling myself 'i'm out of B. I'm out of this cycle' ... . on and on and am feeling weak but positive... . thank you so much. So, so much for helping me to hang in there. Another thing that gave me strength was that i could come back here... . i also saw that i was clenching my jaws and fist less today.

DreamFlyer, everything you've said happened to me - about the soaking up. Along with this site - and i have been reading other Boards, as well as the links given on the right - and the book Stop Walking on Eggshells, i'm beginning to understand the responsibility issue. I did, and still do have problems with that, and the stepping back. But i realize that is essential. I do not have to fix his problems.

DreamFlyer99, i feel that this is a really difficult thing to do, though i realize that it is needed in the healing process - to realize that his feelings have to be validated. The hurt is so much that i wonder why i need to validate the person who dealt this, but like you said, 'I can validate that i understand he feels that way,' and leave it there. I'm going to study the link you've posted. Thanks for sharing.

Thank you for your thoughts on the guilt factor. Yes, he does not know about me being here either... . though i wouldn't put it past him to hack in. He needs to know everything about me... . but i think i should be able to handle that... . at least i hope i can. I must. I can perfectly see it now, with the example of the oxygen mask. I really do not need to so demolish myself putting him first... . and in the end i have neither myself, nor is the situation changed. Whereas doing a little something for myself, or getting help for myself will help make life easier... . and me a little stronger.

It is a whole new world of learning!

Dreamflyer99, i would love to start a topic on how others in the family are dealing with negativity, or other issues. To do this, should i change my tagline to something else and click on 'Topic' in the L5 Board? I don't want to cause a tangle.

[Lilibeth]

DreamFlyer99, i think i've got it, just need the confirmation: i could click on 'Topic' and in the subject line put in, say, ':)ealing with negativity' and go on from there. Right?

'Cos then i can start two threads - one on lies and one on the turning everything, no matter what to himself... .

[waverider]

DreamFlyer99, i think i've got it, just need the confirmation: i could click on 'Topic' and in the subject line put in, say, ':)ealing with negativity' and go on from there. Right?

'Cos then i can start two threads - one on lies and one on the turning everything, no matter what to himself... .

yep click on new topic

In title something related to the subject you wish to discuss.

Fill in your post. Then it will start a new thread.

When you have more than one thread running try to keep the subject discussions different otherwise it gets confusing when folks are answering same issues in different threads.

Don't forget to join in on other peoples threads, if they are on subjects of interest

[Legacymaker]

Hi Lilibeth 

You are doing great!  I can really hear how much you are learning and growing!

[Lilibeth]

Thank you Legacymaker. Your words mean a lot to me. I'm trying... . still a long way to go, but with the support i am getting here, i'm sure i'll be able to do it... . i want so much to... .

[Lilibeth]

I just mentioned regeneration to Legacymaker. This is something i'm going through now. It's taking a lot of effort, as i go through the pages here and the learning i'm getting from them, along with my study of the book, to rework a whole lot of things in my heart that had become firmly entrenched. I realize this is necessary. The wonderful thing is the gentle feeling of freedom that is creeping in... .

[Legacymaker]

Regeneration is not easy, but very necessary.

I think of it as a wounded bird about to be free.  We will be able to look back on the things that have bound us, but rise above them.

I'm proud of you Lilibeth.  I can only imagine how much admiration your daughter has for you! 

[Lilibeth]

Thank you, Legacymaker. The thing is the pulling out of the old thorns that are so embedded. Coming with the pulling out are questions of 'i'll be going out into the unknown, as it were. will i be able to do it?' Yesterday, i did mention to my husband that i was going through a process of regeneration. And i braced myself for what was to come. But i was able to handle it, and when he questioned me, i said i was not sure, but i knew that some kind of regeneration was starting. As i read, BPDs' feelings of being abandoned should be considered, so i did try to allay his fears that regeneration did not mean that i was going away or anything... . just hope i can stay on this course - no, not hope, i take that back - i have to stay on this course. You know, Legacymaker, my daughter texted me yesterday saying she could see a change! Incentive to stay on this course. Of course i have great back-up here to help me... .

[Lilibeth]

I need a little help. Yesterday and today have been a little stressful because my husband has been slipping in hurtful sentences while talking to me - he'll say something that stings and then say something to show he is thoughtful. I have tried to be on an even keel, mainly because i know i'm not alone.

I'm on the 'sponging' and 'reflecting' part of the Stop Walking on Eggshells book. I understood that silently listening to what he was sniping about was a form of sponging - but i dare not say anything at this time, in case it got aggravated out of control. How do i reflect what he is saying - does it mean that if i tell myself i am not accepting this behavior, i can reflect it away from me?

[DreamFlyer99]

Lilibeth, I was just thinking of you and wondering how you were doing!

For my situation, once I started realizing that my goal was actually to take care of my own emotional and mental health in the situation, I started seeing how many things my husband was trying to pull me into with his words. While I would have previously wanted to respond somehow I now see that when he is trying to draw me in it's the totally wrong time to engage! So I just keep doing whatever I'm doing, not responding one way or the other. And of course I may have a feeling about what he's saying, but I voice that to myself in my head so I'm not playing into his "game." We're still human, we still will have feelings about things said to us that are hurtful. And that's where I'm learning to turn that feeling outward, and by that I mean recognizing to myself that "what kind of person says THAT to someone he supposedly loves?" Recognizing that it's his responsibility for what things he chooses to say.

Not responding takes the power out of his words since he's not able to draw me into an argument. So i recognize what he's choosing, and i recognize what i'm feeling, but i don't engage. That's been powerful for me. My husband knows how I feel about how he talks to me, I needn't repeat it each time since I know he's smart enough to remember. I just need to act on my self-care by letting it pass over me like water, or if it's getting too pushy to deal with, take myself off for a walk.

I'm such a verbal person it was SO DIFFICULT for me to not answer back!

My children seem to have more respect for me now that they've seen how serious I am about not letting their father get away with being mean to me. It's like I've become more of a person to them, if that makes any sense! He's always been the loud one demanding attention, so he's mostly gotten it. But now that I am becoming a stronger person their view of me has expanded. It's interesting.

I think that for me, if my husband is in the mood where he wants to keep testing me, I'd find another chore to do elsewhere in the house. That way I'm protecting myself from his mean words and from my sad and angry feelings his mean words inspire.

[Lilibeth]

DreamFlyer99, i don't know how to thank you. You have clarified so many things for me. I've been reading and re-re-reading them and have also copied them down so i can keep referring to them. I'm not a verbal person, DreamFlyer so it all gets stored and starts becoming like a poison eating me away from the inside. Believe me, ever since i joined this family, that has lessened - but, though i know it will take time, i do so want it to never happen and i believe i'll be able to get to this point.

Thank you for referring to the way your children have started respecting you more. I'm finding that happening in my daughter too, DreamFlyer99.

All the time he needs to be in control - whether he is at home, or at work, or even, as today, he is out of town for a conference. He monitors every single thing - even what i have to say to the shopmen, or the driver, or anyone. Of course now i am countering that slowly but surely. I am learning to put my emotional health first. The pull-backs are there in sentences that i don't care for what he is saying to me especially since he is telling me all this for my own good... . or in his looking angry so i will get scared, or in a hurt manner that will immediately make me feel scurvy... . but i want to break free of this... . it is totally stifling... .

[DreamFlyer99]

You will break free slowly as you go, Lilibeth.

Like you said, in small ways you'll start standing up for yourself. And slowly you'll start to feel your own self emerging and unfolding, like a blossom. I'm glad to hear about your daughter! Sometimes I think that the generation of my children have had much better information to help them know how to be themselves than I did. They take the idea for granted, where for me I had to start recognize what was going on in my marriage where I was believing the lies about me, then go from there.

I'm so glad you feel you are moving forward. And it's probably better that you aren't as verbal as I am.

df

[Lilibeth]

DreamFlyer99 right now i am drowning, drowning and drowning in negativeness... . relentless, unabated negativeness... . today is the third day... . and am trying hard to stay afloat and free... . just trying to get out of this cycle of negativeness... . trying to disengage... . i did get drawn in once, but i realized just in time that that path was the wrong one to go on... so quickly got out of it... . but am just hanging in... .

[waverider]

DreamFlyer99 right now i am drowning, drowning and drowning in negativeness... . relentless, unabated negativeness... . today is the third day... . and am trying hard to stay afloat and free... . just trying to get out of this cycle of negativeness... . trying to disengage... . i did get drawn in once, but i realized just in time that that path was the wrong one to go on... so quickly got out of it... . but am just hanging in... .

Lilibeth it does get harder, his consistent negativeness will also be his defense against changes he sees in you.

Non of this will be easy but consistency is your rock. Consistent behavior eventually becomes entrenched. It can almost like you are playing a game of chicken at times. Stick to your path otherwise you will teach him that you will swerve under pressure.