Am I just taking this too personal?

[laelle]

My ex husband and I have recently decided to work on a relationship. (non BPD)  The BPD in my life pretty much came in and helped to sever the end of my relationship with my ex husband.

I have love, respect and two children with this man and we are working on building a healthy relationship.  He and I have been through several years of separate counseling.

This morning, I was sitting at my desk looking at the sales.  I was looking at really cool tshirts, sandals, jewelry... Etc.  He comes up behind me and says "ooh, I see something interesting"

I look and he is staring at a big buxom brunette in a slinky lingerie... .  I think... meh... .  make some comment about it and then kept looking at the sales ad.  Still behind my back he says "ooh, I see something even more interesting". "I would like to see you in that"  I look and its another lingerie add... .  Ok, I get it!  He wants me to "like" this on some level.  I didnt particularly like one that he pointed out, and I said that I felt too old to wear it (didnt mean old but cant find the right word for it), but I pointed out another that was just as sexy but something I would be more comfortable in.

Then he tells me that I am wrong that, and I am not too old for the other outfit, and that some women like to wear slinky lingerie.  Then he says that at least being with me he knows he wont have to spend alot of money on lingerie... .     ?  No one needs to buy my underwear for me these days, and I will feel sexy when I feel sexy, not when someone tells me that I should be.

I did not yell at him, but I did tell him that arguing about whether my feelings are right are wrong wont get us very far.  I feel how I feel.  

It was morning, I am in my robe, feel the need to bathe and not feeling my best... . he shut up and went out the door without saying goodbye... . silence

I know that in some way this made him feel rejected, and I was trying not to.  I was trying to say its "me who feels this way"  not a you thing.

I feel guilt and shame for not responding how he wanted me to, but also anger because it made me feel dirty.  Not the thought of sexy lingerie, but that the intimacy level that he expected me to respond at, was not the intimacy level that I felt.  

We have come a long way.  We have built up trust again.  I am able to look at him as a woman looks at a man.  

I am 10 months out of my relationship with my ex BPD, and during my relationship with my BPD ex, I was NEVER touched.

sex, yes... . foreplay, caress... . NOTHING.  My marriage with my exH had its own issues... . infidelity on his part, and while sex and lingerie is cool, with him, I have mixed feelings.

He and I have been through alot, and he has made the changes he needed to become a healthier partner... . and he is!  I wonder if I will ever be truly right again.


Please, do not move this to the relationship boards... .

[babyducks]

Hi laelle,

There is a lot in your post.   

Here are my random thoughts.   What I have found to be true for me is that post my breakup, I am having real problems with intimacy, most especially physical intimacy.    It makes me feel vulnerable and then angry in very quick succession.

It doesn't have to be sexual intimacy, I have some medical stuff going on and when I have to allow professionals into my personal space I get withdrawn and cold.

When it comes to sexual intimacy the voice in my head is saying some pretty atrocious things.   It appears that my anger at being devalued comes to the surfaces at this moments.   And that seems kind of odd to me.

I know the working theory is that sex with a person with BPD is suppose to be incredible.   I don't know about that.  What I do know is that with my EX the emotions that came into play during physical intimacy were beyond description.   And I am still experiencing a lot of churn in regards to that.

I don't know if you are taking it too personal.  It is pretty personal isn't it?  and I am going to guess that  if you think there is something going on, you are probably right.

ducks

[laelle]

Hi laelle,

There is a lot in your post.  

Here are my random thoughts.   What I have found to be true for me is that post my breakup, I am having real problems with intimacy, most especially physical intimacy.    It makes me feel vulnerable and then angry in very quick succession.

It doesn't have to be sexual intimacy, I have some medical stuff going on and when I have to allow professionals into my personal space I get withdrawn and cold.

When it comes to sexual intimacy the voice in my head is saying some pretty atrocious things.   It appears that my anger at being devalued comes to the surfaces at this moments.   And that seems kind of odd to me.

I know the working theory is that sex with a person with BPD is suppose to be incredible.   I don't know about that.  What I do know is that with my EX the emotions that came into play during physical intimacy were beyond description.   And I am still experiencing a lot of churn in regards to that.

I don't know if you are taking it too personal.  It is pretty personal isn't it?  and I am going to guess that  if you think there is something going on, you are probably right.

ducks

Thanks babyducks  

I went so long without be "intimate" with my exBPD that I have forgotten how to let someone in.  I hear people talk about the sex with their ex's being great, I will just say that I never had that mind blowing experience.  I had sex hooker style... . no touching, just business.  The long distance sex was awesome tho.  It was mind blowing.  That in addition to the love bombing were a very strong drug.

While married to my exH, I found out my exH had betrayed me.  To go into detail would show great disrespect towards him, but what happened was something that my little mind could not digest.

This is the main reason that I let my exBPDbf in... . He said he understood.  He gave me self worth when I felt I had none.  It is no excuse.  If I had been stronger, I would have handed both of their asses too them and ran.

It was a little difficult to do with my exH as I live in France and he was my only source of support or friendship.  I am not asking for sympathy... . I secluded myself in some need to be the "sacrificial lamb" of sorts.  I do not have this need anymore.    My FOO has gotten a real work out and some issues are resolved.

The new relationship that we have begun is built on stable, even ground.  I no longer depend on him for financial support, and I am with him because I want to be.  We still have issues, and sexual intimacy I guess is one of them.  Normal under the circumstances I hope.

[dontknow2]

laelle,

You mentioned much deeper issues. For the situation at hand... .

My ex does a lot for the betterment of our relationship but has VERY poor judgment on the how. I frequently get upset over the how vs his real motivation. When I am able to remind myself of this!, it ends up feeling less deep of a hurt... . more like a surface scratch. You would know best in your situation if his motivation was not in the right place.

My ex and I were not taught how to love ourselves much less someone else. Our relationship been such an uphill/mountain battle. Sometimes, I feel like I can't go on; its just too hard. Then, I do a reality check; I'd have to learn whether with him or someone else.

I wish you the best laelle. 

P.S. We need a new acronym for divorced spouses but back together again; just not married again yet!

[laelle]

laelle,

You mentioned much deeper issues. For the situation at hand... .

My ex does a lot for the betterment of our relationship but has VERY poor judgment on the how. I frequently get upset over the how vs his real motivation. When I am able to remind myself of this!, it ends up feeling less deep of a hurt... . more like a surface scratch. You would know best in your situation if his motivation was not in the right place.

My ex and I were not taught how to love ourselves much less someone else. Our relationship been such an uphill/mountain battle. Sometimes, I feel like I can't go on; its just too hard. Then, I do a reality check; I'd have to learn whether with him or someone else.

I wish you the best laelle. 

P.S. We need a new acronym for divorced spouses but back together again; just not married again yet!

Your right don'tknow2,

He meant absolutely no insult by what he said.  It was a trigger for me.  He did some pretty bad things to me in the past, and his needing that connection with me brought back alot of pain from the past.  We sat down and talked about it.  I explained that it was not rejection towards him, but that I was having problems to deal with some pretty complicated emotions from our past.  As I said, we did not fight about it.  I did not want to be angry, I wanted to understand my own feelings and I did not want to hurt him. 

I love myself, and after what I have been through I am extremely protective of myself.  I suggested that maybe some counseling might help us to get over that rough spot.  I have no issues with sex or cuddling... I love that.  It is the raunchy sex stuff that got me.  It is a huge trigger for me.

[fromheeltoheal]

I've made that mistake before, even though it was good intentioned.  You're right laelle, a woman feels sexy when she feels sexy, and for men it's a matter of paying attention.  It is said that men are visual, seeing a woman in lingerie is usually going to put a man in the mood, and your husband and I at least get points for imagining our mates in that lingerie, not just ogling some model, but if she's not in the mood and/or not feeling sexy, it can be a turn-off.  It's about paying attention to where she is and responding accordingly, helping her feel sexy when she is, and not trying to make her feel sexy when she isn't.  Don't know if my two cents are appropriate, but I've been there.

[seeking balance]

Laelle,

Feelings are feelings - not right or wrong.

Boundaries are boundaries and sometimes they protect us and sometimes they keep us from being vulnerable and without vulnerability, intimacy is not possible.

So, talk to him - tell him how you feel about this situation without blame, without judgement.  I know you know how to use DEARMAN (this is not just a BPD tool, it is a life skill).  Lean into the vulnerability so he has the opportunity to act in a way that you can feel loved and more connected to him.

IMHO, This has nothing to do with lingerie - it is much bigger trust issues that you will have to work through with him.  And regarding the lingerie itself, some folks like it and others don't... . it isn't bad or good, it just is.

Kudos to you for sharing and for being willing to work through this.

Peace,

SB

[laelle]

Thank you everyone.

Thank you both for your insightful words.  My struggles with my exH are about his sexual indiscretions during the marriage and when he gets too close, I withdraw.

When triggered, I dont see him as he is now, but I see him as he was 3 years ago... .  It is something that will take time, counseling, and replacing the bad moments with the new ones created.  We may even decide that we cant get over this hurdle and end it, but we feel we deserve a chance to try again with our healthier selves.

Heck, he was triangulated with my exBPDbf for two years, it has been no picnic for him either.

[Grey Kitty]

  Good job for both of you.

That hit something serious that you are going to have to work through/around/with for a while.

I dunno where to send you for that, but I think you will find it. If you have a T you are seeing, talk to him/her... .

But seeing both you and your exH manage to back away from this issue without hurting or blaming each other over it--good work, and a good sign for the future of this r/s!

[laelle]

Meow! 

Thanks Kitty!  Good to see you!

[myself]

laelle, hopefully this has been an eye opener for him and he respects where you are coming from, proving he is taking healthy steps with you to rebuild the relationship. Each step in that direction helps. Hopefully it opens new communication for both of you. Hopefully you become more comfortable together with time.

[laelle]

Thank you Myself, 

It has been a difficult these past several years, and we both have suffered at the hands of each others bad decisions.  Bad decisions mostly made out of our FOO issues.

Goes to show just how much core issues can mess up your life if they arent dealt with.