Why couldn't or Didn't I do this

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So back in Nov. I was over at my uBPDexbf house and his sister called him while we were hanging out.  He chose to answer the phone and was rather rude to her.  When he hung up I said "you know you kinda sounded a little short with her".  He was like "huh" well I guess but she was interrupting me. Anyway, she ended up sending him the following email which he ended up fwd to me saying "you called me out on it and so did she but it makes for a great relationship "

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I was going to send you a text, but since you had company, I didn't want to ruin your night.

If you have company, just don't answer the phone. You were rude to me, and I need to call you on it.

I feel bad about thanksgiving, but we never wanted to have it. X's son and daughter in law wanted to have it... . Not sure what we will be doing, but that has nothing to do with anybody but us. We have had a tough year (which includes you too!)

I don't want or need an apology, but needed to make sure that I gave you my thoughts. You know how much I love you, and I will always be there for you, but you need to be nicer to me... . if u r busy, then don't answer the phone because if u aren't in the mood to talk, you are not very nice.

Sis

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So, my question is if he could react calmly to this and end up not raging at her or me about it.  Why couldn't/didn't I ever assert myself in this way and say the exact same things to him when he would get pissed off about something he allegedly thought I did or didn't like about me.  Would it have changed things or changed the outcome.  Did he react OK about this b/c it triggered fear that his r/s with her wouldn't be OK?  Ugh! so now I'm questioning myself and if I really could have made it work if I had only be strong and assertive... . rather than trying to please him and validate his feeling all the time... . Maybe if I had just said Hey, how your treating me is not OK with me, I care about you and want to spend time with you and get to know you better, but you need to be nicer to me and if you have an issue with something then you need to tell me in a nicer manner & be willing to sit down as adults with me and reach a mutually acceptable agreement/compromise that we both can live with b/c I'm not going to continue to accept being treated the way that you have... . Would saying this have changed things?

[Lol4fun]

So back in Nov. I was over at my uBPDexbf house and his sister called him while we were hanging out.  He chose to answer the phone and was rather rude to her.  When he hung up I said "you know you kinda sounded a little short with her".  He was like "huh" well I guess but she was interrupting me. Anyway, she ended up sending him the following email which he ended up fwd to me saying "you called me out on it and so did she but it makes for a great relationship "

************************************************************

I was going to send you a text, but since you had company, I didn't want to ruin your night.

If you have company, just don't answer the phone. You were rude to me, and I need to call you on it.

I feel bad about thanksgiving, but we never wanted to have it. X's son and daughter in law wanted to have it... . Not sure what we will be doing, but that has nothing to do with anybody but us. We have had a tough year (which includes you too!)

I don't want or need an apology, but needed to make sure that I gave you my thoughts. You know how much I love you, and I will always be there for you, but you need to be nicer to me... . if u r busy, then don't answer the phone because if u aren't in the mood to talk, you are not very nice.

Sis

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So, my question is if he could react calmly to this and end up not raging at her or me about it.  Why couldn't/didn't I ever assert myself in this way and say the exact same things to him when he would get pissed off about something he allegedly thought I did or didn't like about me.  Would it have changed things or changed the outcome.  Did he react OK about this b/c it triggered fear that his r/s with her wouldn't be OK?  Ugh! so now I'm questioning myself and if I really could have made it work if I had only be strong and assertive... . rather than trying to please him and validate his feeling all the time... . Maybe if I had just said Hey, how your treating me is not OK with me, I care about you and want to spend time with you and get to know you better, but you need to be nicer to me and if you have an issue with something then you need to tell me in a nicer manner & be willing to sit down as adults with me and reach a mutually acceptable agreement/compromise that we both can live with b/c I'm not going to continue to accept being treated the way that you have... . Would saying this have changed things?

[LilMissSunshine]

Similar situations happened to me and if I tried asserting myself in any way (like yr X's sister did) he would  accuse me of criticizing him, rage, flip me black n discard me.  Perhaps it's the  intimacy  thing that is the difference.   

[CoasterRider]

Im not sure maybe the brother/sister dynamic causes him to react different versus a romantic connection.

I know several times I attempted to explain to my ex why what he was doing was hurtful to me an our relationship. It always ended up being a lecture. He would go through a silent rage at himself with intense shame.

I ask myself the same questions, had I been more assertive and sensitive would it have mattered. We cant go back and change the past I suppose. Win some loose some, now you know how to handle these situations in the future if they come up with your next love.

[heartandwhole]

Lol4fun,

I agree with the other suggestions that a brother-sister relationship may not trigger the maladaptive behaviors as much as an intimate, romantic one.  Each person is unique, and the abandonment fears will come up for some much more than others.

It's perfectly normal to wonder, "what if?," but I hope you won't dwell there too long.  There's no way to know what would have happened. 

If you're contemplating trying again, this site has lots of great communication tools to help.

[Lol4fun]

Heck no I'm not thinking of trying again! He is also in a new r/s doing the same idealization stuff he did with me the posting on FB a week in about how wonderful she is and doing the whole checking in places and tagging her.  I was informed of this with out asking by a mutual friend who is FB friends with him I am not and have since blocked him and restricted what our mutual friend can see on my FB page as I don't want her going and telling him what is going on in my life. He has his patterns jumps from one relationship to the next granted his marriage was 15 years but previous to that he jumped from one girl to the next and did so with a girl prior to meeting his ex-wife.  I can speculate all I want... . With me he got triggered only a week 1/2 into our dating r/s and it continued in that cycle mainly whenever I was not physically with him he would choose something to get mad and rage at me over like anything from how I talked on the phone to not texting him and letting him know I'm going to movies with a friend etc or to me asking him to remove his hand from my rear end while I was trying to sleep.  The stupidest and silliest things... . things you don't get raging mad at someone for only a week in or for that matter a month in to dating even if you have been spending a good portion of your time together (sometimes every day other times every other day). It was exhausting! He basically wanted a gf who was there when he needed her to be there and who stayed in the idealization stage where there was no delving deeper into feelings and discussion and wants/needs.  When I started to ask for my wants needs to be met or to start wanting to move towards continuing to pursue my passions and intrests which means going out and doing and then coming back to share time with eachother you know not be all dependent and needy is when the ragging and complaining and attacking me began followed by telling me that it is an emotional roller coaster and way to much drama to start off with.  Ummm hello the person making and creating the drama was him.  I was just being my normal self and how any reasonably healthy person would be in a relationship that is less than a month old.  I mean seriously ragging and me and criticising me for how I would talk on the phone when it is no different than how I talk with anyone else.  How about be mature and say hey I'm having a hard time determining when I talk to you on the phone if your happy to be talking to me or if your bored or something can you help me out so I can understand... . where my response would then be "yes I am happy to be talking to you... . I'm not really much of a phone person b/c it makes me a little uncomfortable (since the movement to texting ive kinda lost my phone skills) and I do much prefer talking in person... . but, I do have a kind of monotone voice that could be taken as I'm not excited to be takling to the person or that I'm bored but, that really is not the case".  Now any reasonable healthy person who is learning about another would take that information process it and accept it for what it is and not take it personally. Nope it was one of his I don't know if I can accept that about you or deal with it.  SERIOUSLY! Or how about my facial expressions how my natural resting face is kind of just there some might say it looks b%tchy but I'm not in my head I feel like my face is smiling but apparently to the outside world its not.  When I'm deep in thought too I'll frequently get asked if I'm OK or if something is bothering me.  Those who truly want to accept me for who I am will learn to know that thats just my natural resting face and that if I'm really upset or bothered by something that I will communicate it to you.  Nope couldn't accept that either. Or how about that I didn't laugh enough... . well I did in the beginning but once he started criticizing me for those things I started to talk less and less.  Oh and he didn't like that I frequently got fatigued and thus would have zero energy.  Umm... . discovered I had a gluten sensitivity that causes me to become extremely tired to the point where I have a hard time keeping my eyes open solution stopped eating gluten started to gain more energy. Started going to the gym and started gaining more energy. Then found out that I have low Testosterone which plays a big role in overall well being energy and not feeling so fatigued.  Guess what I'm full of energy now and do not need naps anymore.  Lets add that I'm not emotionally drained each day from him and his constant rages or letting me know what things about my personality he can't stand.  To him it was like I was supposed to instantly know what things were going to bother him and how I should behave in a r/s because in his mind that is how you acted or at least in his marriage you acted.  There was never telling me in a nice way what he needed or asking if he was interpreting me correctly.  It was blow up at me and then if I could get him to we would discuss.  I would tell him hey I'm am still learning about you and despite there being this deep connection that we are both feeling there is still so much I do not know about you and if you don't tell me then I'm not going to know... I'm going to make mistakes and when they happen they are not happening because I am setting out to purposely do them or to purposely hurt you.  They are going to happen b/c I don't know everything about you I have only known you for a month you can't expect me to magically know that doing XYZ which I think is perfectly normal is going to get you mad.  If you communicate it in a nice way and I then repeatably after that continue to do it well then yes getting angry and possibly yelling at me would be justified.  Anyway, in his mind texting to let someone know your going to a movie is just something you should be naturally doing if you care about someone.  Ummm... . I'm not married to him and don't need to tell him every where I am going.  We didn't have plans that day and I never communicated when I was going to the store or those things... . wait I take that back he always wanted to know what I was doing after work etc... . Or me telling him that I'm taking time to relax and wouldn't be checking my phone or texting with anyone or may shut if off for a while and would get in touch when I'm done with my recharging my batteries... . Apparently you don't do that either when you care about someone... . Apparently you are supposed to be available for them 24/7 and your needs don't matter.  Makes me SOO mad that before I even took that time to look after me and do something for me like recharging my batteries and disconnect from the outside world for a little bit... . he was throwing the "I'm turning off my phone for the rest of the night"  did I blow up at him for that NO I let him do what he needed to do... . so if I wanted to I could say thats not showing you care to him when he was doing it to be spiteful... . However, when I chose to disconnect from the world to do some self-care and pampering of me it meant that I didn't care b/c you just don't do that. I think I am in that ANGER stage and frankly if I were to run into him at the target we both go to or anywhere around where we live (less than 3 miles from each other) I don't think I could keep my ANGER in I think I might tell him what an A-hole he is and that he has no F'ing clue what a real r/s is all about.  I think I would then tell him that yeah your current r/s might be hunky dory b/c you only see each other on the weekends but once you move it to the next level and either start seeing each other more or one of you moves you'll be lucky if she stays with you... . b/c unless she is that pathetic and like you doesn't have any friends to spend the weekend with & needs to be around you 24/7 to gain any type of self-worth or define herself then she is gonna get just as sick as your BS as I did. Controlling NUT JOB! Mutual respect my arse... . Current gal must love it b/c she is getting the crazy boost to her self esteem from him telling her how grand he is and all that he can do for her and be for her and how they are so alike and share so many of the same interests etc.  I pray for her sake that she is telling this all to her family how it seems like this fairy tale and world-wind romance and hopefully they are talking some sense into her.  If my family had lived closer and I was able to share with them what was going on how fast it was moving I would have heeded there advice and bailed or slowed it way way down.  Good God I am soo ANGRY at him.

[heartandwhole]

Let it out, Lol4fun!

Anger is an important stage in the process.  You have every right to feel that way. We're listening, and we care about you.

[Lol4fun]

YUP I'm as ANGRY as ANGRY can be... . and feel the need to stand up for myself for too long I took the passive I'm sorry how can I fix it and make it better I didn't mean to do that etc... . Good Lord I was a freaking doormat.  I basically taught him how to treat me by just accepting what he did.  Thus, I would really really love the opportunity to now stand up for him and say (this is now what I would say to him written as if it were to him)

NO how you treated me was NEVER OK no human being deserves to be treated the way you treated me. I never did ANYTHING to purposely hurt you or do ANYTHING really to justify you raging at me and belittling me... You may have thought it was OK whether you were taught that that is how you treat someone I do not know. But it is unacceptable to treat anyone that way. AND your angry moods and taking them out on me by the mean mean things you said.  I NEVER talked to you that way.  I was compassionate and understanding more so than any person should have been with only knowing you for a little over a month.  And when you would come back and apologize I accepted it and forgave you b/c I was trying to be understanding and accepting and I was.  HOWEVER in your mind you thought it was justified to act like that and treat me that way telling me to F'off that I'm a F'ing Freak, that you think you F'ing hate me, that I'm a stalker, that you felt sorry for me... . etc etc etc. What a load of complete and udder crap! So talking to someone that way isn't a reason in your mind why I should walk but, me resting for a day or not texting before going to a movie (when I didn't know that it would be something that bothered you) is SOO Catastrophically worse than being cussed out and continuous threatened with you saying your going to leave and abandon me.  What F'ed up planet are you living on b/c last time I checked normal sane people don't act this way.  And you know what I stayed b/c underneath all your crap I saw a guy who is compassionate and caring but has so much self hate anxiety and fear and is so afraid to F'ing deal with it that that good guy is hidden and buried so deep down you can only catch a glimpse of it if your really paying attention then its gone and this other hurtful controlling manipulative negative man shows up.  Years from now when you are still living an unfilled life and wondering why your not happy you will look back and realize the gem that you lost and how I am too good for you and you lost the best thing you could ever have. I wish I would have stood up and told you that you either get the help you need or you loose me.  That would have been me taking my power back and it would have felt so very good and so very validating. Because I am no longer and never again letting any man take away my power and try to push me down to make me beneath him.  I am a strong independent woman and do not need a man to define me or make me feel good about myself. I'm a great catch and the right guy will see that and will appreciate that about me and will help raise me up rather than tear me down.  That is the true nature of any healthy r/s be it a friendship, dating/marriage, family you raise each other up, support, encourage b/c you want the person to succeed etc. You don't belittle, tear them down, destroy their self-esteem just so that you can feel better about yourself b/c its too hard for you to see someone else be happy and fulfilled in their life.  You want those around you to feel as bad about life as you do b/c otherwise that jealousy is just too much for you to take.  GO SUCK ON THE LIFE OF SOMEONE WHO NEEDS YOU TO DEFINE THEM AND WHO HAS NO IDENTITY OR SELF WORTH. B/C AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED YOU TWO DESERVE EACH OTHER AND CAN LIVE IN YOUR HAPPY LITTLE WORLD OF DISPARE WHILE I GO ON TO DO BIGGER AND BETTER THINGS AND LIVE THE LIFE THAT DEEP DOWN YOU SECRETLY WANT AND WISH YOU COULD HAVE BUT WON'T BECAUSE YOUR TOO F'ING SCARED TO DO THE HARD WORK OF LOOKING AT YOURSELF AND YOUR DEMONS FACING THEM AND CONCURRING THEM.  SAD SO SAD.

Thank you for listening and letting me vent I needed to get this out and it feels quite liberating.  Looking forward to hitting the gym after work and working out a little more of this anger.  It feels damn good to be feeling something other than weepy sorry for myself and woe is me.  I feel more empowered and feeling Angry is me saying I love myself enough to know that all of this was NOT OK.

[Lol4fun]

Super excited, proud, pumped, & feeling uber confident! Why you might ask well when I met my ex I was about 25 to 30lbs over the weight I wanted to be. I felt fat, bloated, hated how I looked in clothes & my bigger size pants were starting to get to tight. The ex always said he found me extremely sexy tho I appreciated his complement it's not how I felt about myself. In one of his break up recycle events he said you say you don't like this or that but you don't do anything about it. So, I up and joined a gym. By the end of our r/s the last time we physically saw each other I had lost between 6 to 8lbs that was back on December 20th. As of today I have lost a total of 20lbs :-) have between 5 to 10lbs more to reach my goal weight. I can't wait until the day I run into him some where he will definenently do a double take but he ain't going to get to touch this ever again! I feel great!