Tricked Him into Exposing Himself as a Liar... What Now?

[misssouthernbelle]

It has been a roller-coaster ride and I really don't want to go into the long story. We were friends, I was just helping him, and he played with my feelings. It started out with him confiding in me that he was molested as a child and that all of his friends leave him and his ex was an abusive psycho. I had a psychopathic ex-boyfriend and felt led to help. Guilt trip!    From that point forward, it was a lot of him playing with my feelings, going distant, making me feel guilty for the slightest thing - usually exposing his inconsistencies - and consistently blowing me off to get closer and "hang out" because he had a hard time trusting people "since he got hurt" and it was hard for him to be face-to-face with people, or event talk on the phone. He eventually told me he wasn't ready to try and move on - after facing frustration from me - because he didn't want to hurt me and didn't want to put me in a situation I didn't deserve to be in.

It was a constant push/pull and over the last two months, it has come down to him disappearing for a week at a time, only to reappear all sweet, wanting to "see if I'm doing good".

Well, things have been very distant with us only texting once or twice a week, and low and behold, he decides to reel me back in this week. We start texting and he asks my honest opinion on what he should do because he keeps having nightmares, or panic attacks in his sleep, and he cannot rest at all. I asked if he really meant that and he said yes. I told him he needed to see a psychologist to work out his issues from childhood and what happened to him with his ex (if any of that is true). He told me he had seen one over our college winter break and it obviously hadn't helped. He said the only thing he hadn't tried was being with someone else because he didn't want to be unfair to the other person. He said he didn't know what to do because he needed that closeness and asked me.

Because - despite everything - I am in love with this guy, I told him to try to break his comfort zone by trying to be with me and taking things slow. He said he couldn't ask me to do that and that he liked me, but didn't want to be unfair to me. I said I could make my own decisions and I was willing to try to help him be able to face women in person again because I cared about him. He said he wanted to keep texting - his comfort zone - and eventually work up to a walk, or lunch this week. We even flirted a bit, and he said he wanted to come over - non-sexual - and sleep so he could feel comfort and be able to get some rest. I told him he could and he said he had a test the next day (he cannot come through, though he is the one who wants it). We ended things well.

I was expecting a text from him after pretty much offering my heart up to him to help him break his "trust walls" this week. Nothing. So, I text him something random. He responds a long time after that. I respond back and all he sends back is a "".

I get on this anonymous app that we both share that allows us to tell our secrets, or post whatever. I use it as a means to see what he's thinking/posting since pwBPD live in their heads and he has posted, "All of my roommates have plans tonight. I just want to take a girl to dinner." I knew it was him because I can read his posts. I could almost be a profiler, I'm that good at picking out his posts, even if he changes his name. I've always been good at decoding people that way.

Feeling absolutely infuriated after the past night's talk, I change my name and message him on the app, saying he should take me out. He takes the bait and we start instantly messaging. I'm playing it up nice and he acts like he wants to take me out. I message him via text one last time to check his response to me versus this "fake woman" by saying, "Hope you're having a good day, handsome! " He keeps messaging the fake woman and ignores my text for a while, before saying "You too!" He finally asks for a picture and I decide to lower the boom. I send him a picture of me and say, "Actually, my name is *my name*. My bad.  And, you sir, are such a f***ing liar."

He waits two minutes and messages me on the app, "How am I a liar?"

Then, the next minute he texts me on my phone, saying "I think I did well on my test!"

Then, 5 minutes later, he texts me again, saying "What are you doing tonight?"

Absolutely floored by his panic that gave him away like red, flashing sirens, I ignored him for two hours and finally responded.

I simply said, "Cut the bulls**t." He replies, "What bulls**t?"

I told him he couldn't meet me face-to-face because of his issues, but was going to meet a random woman for a dinner date? I told him to explain with a smiley face.

He says, "I deleted that app... . it wasn't me... " Then, "Lol sounds like you made a mistake" Then, Plus I'm not even free tonight. I'm out with roommates."

I provided him with proof and told him, "Feed me some more bulls**t. See, I'm just not buying it. Tisk, tisk."

He says, "Well, I'm not selling anything, so you're buying someone else. I deleted the app because I stopped using it a while back. Sorry" at 8:42pm last night.

I was so shocked that I had just caught him and his bold-faced lies that I couldn't respond.

He texts me again at 2am this morning, waking me up, saying, "But thanks for your belief in me. Now I really feel like I can talk to you. I told you I deleted my app. I don't have time for more of this."

Guilt trip!

I say, finally, "Guilt trip at its finest. I'm not taking the bait. My ex was good at those. You know I've believed in you all along. Even lost 10 lbs the week I talked you out of suicide, only to have you treat me like s**t when I checked up on you. I always forgive you like I did then. But, I don't "believe in you?" Lol. Oh, really? You don't talk to me anymore anyways, unless you sense I'm pulling away. Like now. Being caught, you mean? Sorry you're a liar and just got caught and can't tell the truth. That's not my problem. That's your own psychological problem. Do I need to send more proof, or will you continue to deny it? Face reality and stop slapping me in the face by denying it. Maybe when you can admit you're a liar, we'll talk.

And, it's not even about you admitting to being a liar. It's about the person I trusted going to great lengths to lie to me about something as trivial as an online post."

He says, "I'd be happy to show you my phone to prove I don't have that app anymore. I'm done talking to you about this. It's not even serious. So please. Goodnight."

I didn't say anything back and he posted something again today (with a changed username of course) and it said "There is getting over someone in theory... And then there's the moment it actually happens... "

Subtle manipulation to make me think he's found a woman "worthwhile" as he likes to post he can't?

This mind-f**k is making me lose myself. 

I don't think I can hold on much longer.  :'(

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[elemental]

Will be honest with you, since you are here and asking, probably you want a straight reply.

As long as you are playing games and manipulating, you are part of the problem.

My suggestion is to step back and detach. Go do something else to occupy yourself. When he comes back around, expect ahead of time he is going to act like a cat who has a mouse. You are the mouse. When he asks your thoughts on how to help himself, tell him you heard of a therapy called DBT therapy. And that by his assessment of himself he is not healthy or stable and the therapy could really change his life.

Suggest, then stay detached while you learn the lessons on the right of this page ---->

[kft]

misssouthernbelle, my pwBPD is EXACTLY like this, but I've been putting up with this hit for nine months.

In my case I've come to believe that the more he likes/respects you, the less likely he is to want you in his life. With meaningless relationships it is easier to hide the BPD, easier to find validation, less risk and also less pain. BPD people hate themselves. They feel guilty over the tiniest little things. The more you care about someone, the more intense that cycle of self-hate guilt and rage is going to be.

The issue is not how much he likes you, the issue is how much he likes himself. As long as he likes you and hates himself he will always have this attitude of "she is better off without me" "she doesn't really like me or want me". Thoughts that will naturally lead him to push you away and isolate himself.

There's nothing you can do about that. You can't make him like himself. No matter how caring you are, or how supportive, he needs to realize there's something wrong and want to get better himself.

What has help me a lot is minimizing exposure. He's jerking you around, but you are also jerking yourself around by using his activities on social networks as a status check of his interest. Couple weeks ago I unfollowed (unfollowed, not blocked) my pwBPD from everything: Facebook, Instagram, Foursquare, etc. I'm much happier for it. Every now and then I'll send him a somee card, just so he knows I still care. Otherwise, I try to stay as NC as possible while I'm detaching.

You can't change him and catching him in a thousand lies would not make a difference. If you want to feel better you have to change yourself.

[waverider]

Playing this game will do your head in, and you wont change him.

So you either have to step away from the nonsense, or him, as the nonsense is part of the disorder. In his mind fibbing is no big deal as it is non of your business (in his mind) and you are wrong for sticking your nose in. He will not own any wrong doing. If pushed hard he may own up but then blame you for making him do it...

Either way it will cause you an enormous amount of stress for little result.

[misssouthernbelle]

Will be honest with you, since you are here and asking, probably you want a straight reply.

As long as you are playing games and manipulating, you are part of the problem.

My suggestion is to step back and detach. Go do something else to occupy yourself. When he comes back around, expect ahead of time he is going to act like a cat who has a mouse. You are the mouse. When he asks your thoughts on how to help himself, tell him you heard of a therapy called DBT therapy. And that by his assessment of himself he is not healthy or stable and the therapy could really change his life.

Suggest, then stay detached while you learn the lessons on the right of this page ---->

I'm beginning to see that, as something the poster below you said really resonated with me. I can't think like he does. I'm going to start reading them and getting ready to not make things worse when he reappears.

misssouthernbelle, my pwBPD is EXACTLY like this, but I've been putting up with this  for nine months.

In my case I've come to believe that the more he likes/respects you, the less likely he is to want you in his life. With meaningless relationships it is easier to hide the BPD, easier to find validation, less risk and also less pain. BPD people hate themselves. They feel guilty over the tiniest little things. The more you care about someone, the more intense that cycle of self-hate guilt and rage is going to be.

The issue is not how much he likes you, the issue is how much he likes himself. As long as he likes you and hates himself he will always have this attitude of "she is better off without me" "she doesn't really like me or want me". Thoughts that will naturally lead him to push you away and isolate himself.

There's nothing you can do about that. You can't make him like himself. No matter how caring you are, or how supportive, he needs to realize there's something wrong and want to get better himself.

What has help me a lot is minimizing exposure. He's jerking you around, but you are also jerking yourself around by using his activities on social networks as a status check of his interest. Couple weeks ago I unfollowed (unfollowed, not blocked) my pwBPD from everything: Facebook, Instagram, Foursquare, etc. I'm much happier for it. Every now and then I'll send him a somee card, just so he knows I still care. Otherwise, I try to stay as NC as possible while I'm detaching.

You can't change him and catching him in a thousand lies would not make a difference. If you want to feel better you have to change yourself.

"

What you said resonated with me so much! What he said finally made sense. Back a while ago when we first started talking, he quickly shut off from me and stopped talking to me once he learned I was a virgin. He respected me. Then, one time when I got upset and told him that he would never appreciate the good woman I was, he got equally upset and said he now felt he couldn't talk to me now. That flabbergasted me, but now, it makes sense. Just last night, he said he "now felt like he could really talk to me", which I thought was a typo. Obviously, he was meaning that he was disliking/hating me now for ousting him like I did and felt I wasn't to be respected/held at a distance.

I'm beginning to understand that he really needs therapy and I can only not make things worse.

Playing this game will do your head in, and you wont change him.

So you either have to step away from the nonsense, or him, as the nonsense is part of the disorder. In his mind fibbing is no big deal as it is non of your business (in his mind) and you are wrong for sticking your nose in. He will not own any wrong doing. If pushed hard he may own up but then blame you for making him do it...

Either way it will cause you an enormous amount of stress for little result.

I'm beginning to tell that.

I see what you are saying and you make sense. I see that now.

[misssouthernbelle]

Does anyone have any ideas what he meant when he said, "It's not even serious. So please"?

That's the only part I don't understand.

[kft]

Does anyone have any ideas what he meant when he said, "It's not even serious. So please"?

That's the only part I don't understand.

I feel like what you want the answer to be is "my flirtation with other women is not serious, you're the one I really like so please stop torturing me"

And that may very well be the case, but even so it really changes nothing about your situation. My pwBPD says stuff like this ALL THE TIME. He would get so angry at me when I referred to the girl he had been dating for four months and subsequently moved in with as his gf. Even given that our relationship is not romantic in nature and it's none of my business and I've repeatedly told him I do not care... . I've heard every conceivable variation of "I'm not really into her" with the unspoken "I'm really into you" at the end.

In fact the only time he ever calls her his gf is when he's angry at me.

But even though this is the Staying board, you can't let things like this give you hope. It's not a baby step in your direction, it's just treading water. He is trying to give you just enough attention to hold you where he feels comfortable having you. One day in the future he may get help, learn to manage his BPD and be ready to try to have a r/s with you ... . but there's really nothing you can do to help that process along, you know? It's all on him.

Best to stop looking for hidden meanings in his words. His words are accurate reflections of his feelings, but his feelings are unstable and inconsistent. He may love you today, hate you tomorrow. So cracking today's secret code really brings you no closer to deciphering the future.

[misssouthernbelle]

Does anyone have any ideas what he meant when he said, "It's not even serious. So please"?

That's the only part I don't understand.

I feel like what you want the answer to be is "my flirtation with other women is not serious, you're the one I really like so please stop torturing me"

And that may very well be the case, but even so it really changes nothing about your situation. My pwBPD says stuff like this ALL THE TIME. He would get so angry at me when I referred to the girl he had been dating for four months and subsequently moved in with as his gf. Even given that our relationship is not romantic in nature and it's none of my business and I've repeatedly told him I do not care... . I've heard every conceivable variation of "I'm not really into her" with the unspoken "I'm really into you" at the end.

In fact the only time he ever calls her his gf is when he's angry at me.

But even though this is the Staying board, you can't let things like this give you hope. It's not a baby step in your direction, it's just treading water. He is trying to give you just enough attention to hold you where he feels comfortable having you. One day in the future he may get help, learn to manage his BPD and be ready to try to have a r/s with you ... . but there's really nothing you can do to help that process along, you know? It's all on him.

Best to stop looking for hidden meanings in his words. His words are accurate reflections of his feelings, but his feelings are unstable and inconsistent. He may love you today, hate you tomorrow. So cracking today's secret code really brings you no closer to deciphering the future.

Actually, I took it several ways. It could mean he was still invalidating his capture. It could mean he was saying we weren't serious. He could have been saying he knew every time I pulled away wasn't serious and he knew I'd be back. He could have been acting like he thought I was making the whole thing up. Or, he could have been saying his betrayal wasn't even serious, as you said.

Being an English major, it's hard not to decode his words and the meanings. But, I agree that it's how he feels in the moment.

I totally understand what you're saying about their reactions to you, depending on if they love/hate you. I think after my stunt Thursday night, he was in "dislike her" mode, which is why he felt like he could talk to me. It really opened my eyes as to why he pushes me away and goes after women that treat him bad and beat him.

Can someone help me understand why my pwBPD prefers me to come to him, instead of waiting for him to muster up the courage for a week? He would probably reconcile with me right now if I texted him.

Why is he so scared of meeting face-to-face and wanted me to make him see me in the beginning? Just so many unanswered questions. I'm learning.

I'm fighting the temptation to make contact right now because I know of his abandonment fears and I feel guilty for being so harsh. I guess part of me really wanted to believe we had made progress toward him actually trying to beat his urge to run from me because he actually likes me. Then, I blow my top.

I guess I need to do more reading.

[waverider]

The problem with analysing words and meanings is you are trying to crack a code. A code needs logical consistency. BPD is illogical, there are linked common threads with common triggers and reactions. However, there are a lot of contradictions and exceptions thrown in there which simply make it impossible to fully understand the details.

A lot of the time he has no idea what he is thinking or feels, its just knee jerk, so often there is no hidden meaning. Words come out with about as much logic as rolling a dice. A lot is based re actively on what is seen to get a response out of you.

You going to him is taken as validation he is the victim in all this.

Easier to keep a facade up over the phone/text than it is face to face which takes more self confidence.

Being around people they don't real care for means they have no fear of failing. When you are with someone you admire it can sap your own self confidence by fear of not measuring up. This is not just a BPD thing it can apply to anyone with low self esteem. Most teenagers go through this, some never get over it.

[misssouthernbelle]

The problem with analysing words and meanings is you are trying to crack a code. A code needs logical consistency. BPD is illogical, there are linked common threads with common triggers and reactions. However, there are a lot of contradictions and exceptions thrown in there which simply make it impossible to fully understand the details.

A lot of the time he has no idea what he is thinking or feels, its just knee jerk, so often there is no hidden meaning. Words come out with about as much logic as rolling a dice. A lot is based re actively on what is seen to get a response out of you.

You going to him is taken as validation he is the victim in all this.

Easier to keep a facade up over the phone/text than it is face to face which takes more self confidence.

Being around people they don't real care for means they have no fear of failing. When you are with someone you admire it can sap your own self confidence by fear of not measuring up. This is not just a BPD thing it can apply to anyone with low self esteem. Most teenagers go through this, some never get over it.

I guess the fact that it can't be cracked is hard for me to understand.

So, more or less, our interactions are based on what he can say to get emotional validation and supply from me?

Facade that he really cares?

But, see, I just feel like he doesn't care at all. We've met one time. It went well, I thought. He said he had a good time too. I look on that anonymous app and see that he has said, "I'm losing hope for a happy ending... . " He was triggered while on our walk that evening and had to cut it short.

Feeling pissed that I felt like he was lying about having a good time, he said he was telling the truth and that he had just gotten triggered into thinking about his abusive ex and eventually got really upset, saying, "You could tell?"

I then saw his Whisper post about wanting to commit suicide and sent the next hour and a half talking him out of it. That was a big low for me. I lost 10lbs that week from being worried about him.

Ever since then, he's played with my emotions, saying he likes me, doesn't want to hurt me, doesn't want to put me in a situation I don't deserve, isn't ready, can't meet face-to-face or talk via phone easily (I remembered our first meet about killed him), etc.

I just feel like it's excuses to keep me around and as supply, though I can see where if he really didn't care, he'd use me for everything he could. He wants so bad to come over and just sleep - as it would give him comfort - but he never allows himself.

Some days I believe him and some days I think he's just shooting me a line.

He admires me so much that he can't even see me face-to-face again? It doesn't make sense. I think that is what is making me pull my hair out, and then I see things about him wanting to take a random girl out to dinner, and yet, he will have to "work toward" just taking a stroll with me around our college apartment complex?

I just have a hard time believing it, even after everything I've read.

[kft]

I guess the fact that it can't be cracked is hard for me to understand.

So, more or less, our interactions are based on what he can say to get emotional validation and supply from me?

Facade that he really cares?

Yes and no. Facade implies that each action is coordinated to further one objective, tricking you. pwBPD are more reactive. They do what will stop the pain, or what will avoid a painful situation. Often these actions are counterproductive: ending the pain in the short term, but ultimately creating a more painful situation long term.

So, yes, he is looking for validation, but it's not fair to say that he really doesn't care about you because of that (although depending on which board you're on people will disagree). Think about it this way: imagine you've gotten stabbed in the leg. Your first priority is going to be to take care of yourself, to get yourself out of danger, and you'll say whatever you have to to get the people around you to help you. Even if you end up hurting their feelings in the long term.

Once out of danger you'll probably have forgotten all about the things you said when you were in danger, and you'd expect them to forgot about it too because you'd rely on their sense of empathy to know that you didn't really mean it.

For pwBPD it's like that, but the danger is over tiny, insignificant things.

[elemental]

You lost 10 pounds in a week?

Ok. In particular you need to find detachment. And that is hard. I know it, because I can get sucked into really bad places with my boyfriend.

You are putting loads of energy into a situation where you are trying to figure out if he even likes you. Your feelings are obviously very strong  .

The best thing you can do for yourself is to go quiet. He put out a comment he was suicidal and you are watching him so closely you are immediately there to "save" him.  He doesn't need saved. You do.

Step back, go quiet. Stop persuing. Take a week off of this and re-evaluate your thoughts and feelings. If he genuinely wants to be involved with you, he will come looking for you. Otherwise, you really don't want this person destabilizing you and you have been allowing him to. You have school, your health is very important. Your state of mind is important.

Do the proper thing for your own self. Because if you don't make these habits now, and develop these very important boundries and enforce them in your life, you will go around and around, being eaten up by your anxiety and tolarating substandard behaviors that will ruin YOUR life. To you, your life needs to be more important. You will survive just fine without some BPDs angst and dramas.

Sorry, I know it is hard, and you are clearly thinking yourself into a bad place.