I need a shot of courage from my friends here. Talking with DD today.

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

Hi all  ,

First of all, thanks in advance for all your support.  I couldn't imagine not having this forum for support!

Back story:  BPD DD25 had a meltdown 2 weeks ago with me.  I took her on a weekend trip (a nice one) for a mom/daughter get-a-way.  BIG MISTAKE!

On day 3, her spending (my money & my mistake) was in question.  When I asked her about it, WWIII broke out resulting in raging and making her husband buy a one way airline ticket home.  Just horrible.

So after 2 weeks of no contact, I texted her to find out if she is willing to work out our issue.  I only did this (selfishly) so I can see my 3yr old grandson.  She didn't text me back; however, texted my husband (her father) and said she could come over to "talk"... . but tell Mom no yelling!  What?  I wasn't yelling... . she was RAGING!

So, today I'll be re-reading this website to prepare for her visit.  I know she will:  blame me, tell me what a horrible mother I've been, threaten to keep my GS from me, tell me we have no relationship... . etc.

Any words of advice, ideas or encouragement will be greatly appreciated.  She's coming over around 5:00pm EST today Jan. 25th.

Thanks so much  

JustWantMyJoyBack

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[peppersnap]

Hi

I am new to this site too so not very experienced at giving advice. Just wanted to say hi and I'm sorry things are tough. Have you tried SET with her?

This is the first tool I've learned and it's been incredibly helpful. It might be a way in for you and your daughter.

Good luck

P xx

[mggt]

Hi I have no real advice just wanted to wish you luck my d also does this with me rages yells everything is my fault if it rains its my fault .  I would just listen  look at her when she speaks and say a prayer .   

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, JustWantMyJoyBack   

peppersnap is right about S.E.T., and if you haven't read up about the communication tools and techniques on this site (and there are many links to the right-hand side of this page that are really integral for understanding and communicating with your daughter), then you've got several hours to check them out before your meeting with her tonight    If you have read up all about them, then a refresher course could also be valuable. Here are a few of them to start with right away:

Video-Tools to Reduce Conflict with a person suffering from BPD

Communication using validation. What it is; how to do it

TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth

Radical Acceptance for family members

It's smart that you have come back here to check out what would be best to do tonight when you see your daughter; I know that before seeing my undiagnosed BPD D-I-L (especially; I also have a uBPD M-I-L and dBPD Son, but I know how to deal with them pretty well right now   ), or before even just emailing her or talking to her on the phone, I come back to the TOOLS and THE LESSONS links on the right-hand side of this page, and scan through to find the ones that would be most appropriate to the current situation. I've even been known to have all of my favorite BPD books open to the pertinent pages set up all around me on the kitchen counter as I read all I can to refresh my skills 

Those are my words of advice   Ideas? Like peppersnap suggested, use S.E.T. (support, empathy & truth) every single minute. As well as, don't forget to NOT JADE during your visit (don't Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain or during this visit). Just don't... . I've found that listening carefully to the emotions behind her words, I can realize that when she complains that she shouldn't have to feel guilty that I want to see my new grandchild a little more often, it's because (at least in her situation) her parents don't live in the U.S. and she's feeling sad that I get to see the grandchild more often than they do. Then, I can empathize and commiserate with her feelings instead of JADING, and I handle it better using S.E.T.

You can do this, JustWantMyJoyBack, with a little deep-breathing and reading (or re-reading) of the links I gave you, and whatever others you might want to check out. I believe that there is always hope when we are willing to understand, empathize and be compassionate with our BPD loved ones. If you have any questions while checking this stuff out, just ask... . We'd love to help you 

[lever.]

I am going through a similar situation with DD33 who has 3 young children.

I had a lot of good advice on here but it was about writing a letter rather than a meeting. If you have Valerie Porr have a quick read about validation. Also try to take a bit of time to get yourself in a good place so that you are able not to take anything personally.

I was advised to take things very slowly (tiny Little steps) and to think in advance what was my first priority.

I decided that it was trying to preserve some sort of link to my grandchildren, everything else can wait. I had an e-mail back saying that I could not be trusted and blaming me for a lot of stuff (I was hurt as from my perspective it felt extremely unfair).

However she conceded that I can have some contact with the children if I travel to them stay in a hotel etc. Its a start. I think validating the valid and expressing my love for her helped. I fear you may be in for a verbal savaging, especially if she now feels ashamed of her behaviour and finds it easier to project on to you. Try to stay mindful and feel your own emotions without reacting.

My daughter used to have a severe eating disorder and made frequent suicide attempts. She is thankfully functioning much better but incidents similar to what has happened to you are still frequent occurrences.

I fully understand how upsetting it can be. Hope she surprises you and the meeting goes smoothly. Imagine us sending invisible support and do let us know how it goes.

[crazedncrazymom]

Good luck tonight!  I'm so happy you popped in for advice and support.  My advice: Use your empathy skills.  Why was she raging?  What is she thinking?  What might she be feeling?  What made her want to get on a plane and go back home in the middle of a nice weekend? 

It doesn't have to make sense to you.  It might not be how you would feel.  Whatever she is feeling is real to her.

Best of luck!  You've already been given tons of advice.  I just want to add my support.  You can do this.  Just listen with your heart and hope for the best!


-crazed

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

Thanks all  ,

Reading furiously.  DD just moved up the time to 2:00pm EST.  30 minutes away.  Typical.  I'll post how the meeting goes.  Trying to stay positive.

JustWantMyJoyBack

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

Whew!

Thank God that's over.

Lever, you were right

I fear you may be in for a verbal savaging, especially if she now feels ashamed of her behaviour and finds it easier to project on to you.

However, my only saving grace is this forum.  Without it, today would have been horrible.  I used all the SET techniques.  I just kept telling myself, "it's the disorder talking".  My husband & I talked about how we would handle this meeting and worked as a team.  Although, I think this frustrated my DD because she couldn't get a reaction from either of us.

One interesting comment my DD made today is around how I treat my grandson with such love and affection.  She said she wished she had been treated that way (for the record... . she was treated this way).  I have felt for a very long time that my DD is jealous of the relationship I have with my grandson.  He shows no signs of BPD and I don't think she quite comprehends this.

During this "meeting" DD brought up at least 5 past disagreements/situations she still is angry about.  Most of the information is exaggerated and I had put behind us.  Lots of projection of hate and anger.  She said she "loved me; but didn't like me" and this would be the last family meeting (fine with me).

Lever, I liked your advise on focusing maintaining a relationship with my grandson and let everything else wait.  That works for me.

For some reason, I feel a sense of relief.  Perhaps it's because I gave her no additional reason to be angry.  I even apologized for the misunderstanding (of which doesn't exist).  My husband on the other hand is somewhat shell shocked.  I tried to prepare him this wouldn't be pretty; however, he was pretty shocked.  When he didn't react to her either, DD told my husband he was just backing me.  SO sad.

DD told us she made an appointment to see a therapist this week.  I responded I thought a therapist might help her sort out our relationship.  She laughed and said she couldn't believe I thought seeing a therapist was a good thing (can't win for losing!).

All in all, no yelling occurred, I validated everything she had to say and we're no worse off than "no contact".  I made sure I was cognitive of my facial expressions and tone of voice.  However, twice my DD gave me the stare of pure hatred.  Very sad.

Thanks to everyone, I feel okay about today.  Not sure what the future holds; however, I know I've done my part.

JustWantMyJoyBack     

[peppersnap]

Hey! WELL DONE!

Sounds like you did brilliantly. The stare of pure hatred... . yeah, that sucks. But you made it through without the yelling and your daughter is going to a therapist. Result!

SET is an amazing tool. Thank god for it, eh?

[lever.]

We are in a similar situation.

At first I felt a lot of relief for not having made things worse and not having completely lost contact with GC ( this was 10 days ago after 3 weeks NC). However my emotions since have been very up and down. Strong sense of having been treated unfairly, grief re reduced contact with GC, slight anger, guilt, a lot of it I know isn't warranted. I am trying to keep working on myself to get to a place of not personalizing things and feeling genuine empathy towards DD. (It is coming and going).

Look after yourself and be prepared for an emotional backlash.

You have made a brave first step.

We will both need to make many more tiny little steps.

I really wish you well.

[pessim-optimist]

I am coming to this thread late -

CONGRATULATIONS!

I am SO happy for you that you have handled this situation so well!

It also looks like your dd was expecting a certain result (a fight) which she did not get, so, I would be on guard going forward and keep up your peaceful validating stance and having S.E.T. handy at all times... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

Thanks again everyone,

Pessim-optimist,  you are so right about being "on guard".  During our "meeting" my BPD DD told me "I want you to know that Grandmother knows about this too".  My mother is 80 years old and the sweetest thing you'll every meet.  My DD is now dragging my mother into this mess.  However, what my DD doesn't know is my mother & I have been talking about my DD's behavior for YEARS.  My mom was unaware of BPD until I found this website.  One of my sister's behavior screams BPD.  So, everything I'm going through... . my mom has gone through.  She really understands.

Lever, keep your head up!  As we all know here, eventually, the BPD will suddenly change black/white labeling.  It's happened to me.  Just out of the blue my DD will call and act as if all is well.

I just kept saying yesterday, "You may feel that way; however, I don't... . I love you and want a relationship with you".  She was unusually speechless.  She definitely wanted a verbal fight so she could make her infamous screaming walk out and slam the door.

Thanks for the support,

JustWantMyJoyBack

[Verbena]

This all sounds so very familiar.  I was very low contact with my DD28 for about five months last year.  I wrote several apology letters and JADED quite a bit at first until I realized that was pointless.

DD wanted me not only to take back what I had said about her behavior, but to not BELIEVE it.  She needed for what I thought about her behavior to not be true.  The behavior itself she wouldn't even address.  She re-wrote history and wanted me to agree with her, but I never did. When she finally realized I wasn't going to tell her what she wanted to hear and that I was DONE with discussing it, she FINALLY let it go.  In the meantime, she painted me black to a whole lot of people.  She made herself look so much worse by sharing all the details of our falling out with virtually everyone, but I'm sure she'll never see it that way. 


What happened between you and your dd on your trip is exactly the reason I did not want to take my daughter up on her offer a couple of monoths ago for us to fly somewhere together for some bonding (confession) time.  I had a similar trip ruined a few years ago when she melted down the second day over absolutely nothing.  Of course, it wasn't nothing to her.  Anything can set off a BPD. 

Your daughter's comments to you and her outrage that you refuse to get drawn into drama with her are very familiar.  I think you are handling the situation well.  Hopefully, your daughter will tire of being angry at you and move on to another target.  I believe that is what has happened in my situation.  I won't be drawn into drama with my dd ever again (if I can possibly help it), and I believe she knows that now. 

So many of us have such similar stories.  Yours especially rang true for me.  The big difference is I don't have any grandchildren for dd to be jealous of or use against me.  I know that day is coming, though. 

[suchsadness]

I know she will:  blame me, tell me what a horrible mother I've been, threaten to keep my GS from me, tell me we have no relationship... . etc.


JustWantMyJoyBack

Hi everyone,

This quote sounds SOO familiar!  Sounds like us mothers all have the same theme going in our lives... . how sad 

I have allowed myself to be in the middle of my 2 daughters issues and am now paying the price!  I got a text from my BPD dd36 last night, and she said "I need you to know that we will NEVER have ANY sort of relationship until I hear what I need to hear. And YES! THOSE ARE MY TERMS.  Mine trump yours in this. I need to hear your mistakes, until then, we are nothing."

I have apologized to her for mistakes I made that caused her pain, said I'm sorry over and over... . and I guess she wants an account of every infraction against her before I have "met her terms" in order to have a relationship with her. 

It is so heartbreaking to hear about all our stories that are so similar and think about all the pain everyone is in, including our loved ones with BPD.  I guess all we can do is try to take care of ourselves and keep working toward peace - and pray a LOT!   

Hugs to all of us         We deserve them.

[lever.]

Suchsadness, Justwant myjoyback, Verbena

What we are all going through is so similar. It helps to hear your experiences. I am sorry for what you are all going through. Sometimes I go over the past and look for mistakes I have made, so it does help that other caring parents are experiencing similar things.

There is a lot of help on here and I have tried to use SET and Validation but its sometimes so hard.

What do you do when you know your daughter is hacking into her sisters e-mail? Do you stay completely out of it or warn the sister? I really sympathise with your situation suchsadness.

What do you do when you are worried about the GC you love and DD rages at you and goes NC? The tools on here are a great help but some situations are so tricky. Does over-apologising re-inforce DDs view that you are a terrible person and nothing is her fault. DD threw a handgrenade into our Christmas and now somehow the fall-out is all my fault. I'm glad I found this place 

[lever.]

Fault was the wrong word to use, I'm not interested in apportioning blame. I should have said responsibilty. I get frustrated that DD always projects and can't acknowledge her own role in difficulties and I sometimes wonder if I re-inforce that.

[JustWantMyJoyBack]

Being in a relationship with a BPD is a tough life.  It's a pure roller coaster.  What makes it more difficult is, that as a parent, we possess forgiveness and continue to try to maintain some sort of calm and close relationship.

I just don't think my DD has the mental/emotional capability to love unconditionally.  It's so hard to try to understand the BPD actions and behaviors that are targeted at the person being painted, "Black".  At least for my DD, she intentionally says and does things she KNOWS will hurt me.  She drags her brother into the drama, contacts her aunt and says horrible things about me.  This last incident she even drug my 80 year old mother into the drama.

I've decided not to get in the middle of anything else with my uBPD DD.  No more mom/daughter trip, no more offering advice when she rages at friends & other family members.  I wish I had a dollar for apologizing for things I've never done.  With my uBPD DD, she is relentless unless I take ownership for her behaviors.  SET helps; however, it's exhausting because my mind is trying to rationalize the situation.  The BPD is not rational.

Thankfully, my 3 yr old GS was able to spend one day with me this week.  He usually spends the night Friday or Saturday as well.  So, yesterday I texted my DD and asked if I can see GS sometime this weekend.  Since Superbowl is Sunday, I figured she might have plans.  I was right.  He will spend the night Sunday and I'll take him to school Monday morning.  However, my DD did give me the cold shoulder.  That's fine.  I just want to see my GS.

It really does help to tell our stories and realize we're not alone.  Especially when the BPD rages, accuses and demands apologies.  I just keep telling myself to take care of myself.  Obsessing about my DD's comments and accusations only makes me very sad.  It's no wonder my DD has NO friends.  Probably the only reason she's letting me babysit my GS.

Keep our heads up and offer each other support.

JustWantMyJoyBack    

[pessim-optimist]

... . she said "I need you to know that we will NEVER have ANY sort of relationship until I hear what I need to hear. And YES! THOSE ARE MY TERMS.  Mine trump yours in this. I need to hear your mistakes, until then, we are nothing."

I have apologized to her for mistakes I made that caused her pain, said I'm sorry over and over... . and I guess she wants an account of every infraction against her before I have "met her terms" in order to have a relationship with her. 

You are looking at it logically, suchsadness... . The mind of a pwBPD doesn't work that way. The good news is, that things can change drastically, and in a few days she may not even 'remember' what her terms were or what she wanted. Or, alternatively, she may become more entrenched in her rejection of you for a while, but the story of why and how is likely to change.

What you need for yourself (and for her too) is that you need to know who you are, you need to know your reality and be calm and confident in it without the need to defend it.

And for her - keeping the door open, and trying to keep a connection with her through the tools ------>

Hang in there. 

What do you do when you are worried about the GC you love and DD rages at you and goes NC? The tools on here are a great help but some situations are so tricky.

You are right, it can get tricky. The tools are not magic. While there is usually space for us to improve our knowledge or use of the tools, it does not guarantee a positive outcome. We only control our part of the relationship. 

Does over-apologising re-inforce DDs view that you are a terrible person and nothing is her fault.

Yes. It is called 'validating the invalid' and it is part of a dysfunctional dance that many parents dance trying to keep peace. Instead, we want to VALIDATE THE VALID.

We talk a lot about validating here, and we have 3 workshops on that topic with great tips. One of them is: "don't apologize, instead validate." Validation is not a cure-all. It is a great gateway to better communication, though, and it is indispensable... .

Thankfully, my 3 yr old GS was able to spend one day with me this week.  He usually spends the night Friday or Saturday as well.  So, yesterday I texted my DD and asked if I can see GS sometime this weekend.  Since Superbowl is Sunday, I figured she might have plans.  I was right.  He will spend the night Sunday and I'll take him to school Monday morning.  However, my DD did give me the cold shoulder.  That's fine.  I just want to see my GS.

And you are right, obsessing about the hurtful words of a pwBPD is of no use - they say things in the heat of the moment, either to hurt us, or projecting their own pain at us. After the situation is over, they may feel very different, or not even remember what they said and why.

We need to keep that in perspective. Otherwise we are stuck remembering and analyzing and agonizing over that... . Which is unnecessarily painful.   

[lever.]

It is helpful pessi-optimist to remember how quickly things can shift and change.

I need to keep reading about validation as I'm new to these approaches. I'm very tempted to JADE with my daughter now to try to sort things out. I would be doing this if I wasn't reading the boards.

I'm also tempted to say that it was an action of hers that has started a whole series of events but I think that might trigger shame and make things worse.

Anyway she has asked for no contact at the moment so that gives time to read and learn.

I can certainly see that she is in pain herself. her last e-mail was quite abusive with lots of insults and very bad language directed at me. Do I just validate the anger if there comes a time to reply? The reasons given for the anger aren't valid as far as I can see but I think trying to explain myself would be counter productive.

Sorry if I've hijacked this discussion and hope these questions are relevant to other posters too.