She filed - I counter filed... going to get stormy

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So the stbBPDew filed as promised.  She hit me with discovery documents at the same time.  She claims I am hiding money!  Mind you I have been separated from her for a year.  Two small daughters (9 and 3) living at the house with her while I was living in my friends basement.  Four months ago I realized she was not about to "snap out of it" and so I now have my own apartment.   I was still naively hoping for some form of a mediated settlement.  Anyways, I counter-filed and requested disclosure as well.  Seeking to highlight for the court her out of control spending.  Additionally, I have asked her to sign a medical release and present her medical and psychiatric history for the past 5 years.  I'm torn on the custody issue.  Her raging and inability to regulate her frustration in an other than angry demeanor concerns me.

Last night she received the documents from her lawyer.  The documents showed that she was not going to get custody without some discussion and review of her fitness to mother.  The documents also showed that the disposition on the house is not a certainty as well.  Told my lawyer that I am willing to let her buy me out of the equity on the house and refinance in her name alone.  Well, after she received the documents the raging/guilting/threatening phone calls began.  I told her several times, "you chose this divorce path" and that "the children will always have a home with one of us."  She immediately started threatening to take the girls back to her home country. 

This is exhausting.  I am sad for the loss of our family, our home, our dreams... . now to top it off, she has to paint me as the bad guy.  Simply amazing.  She is completely unwilling and unable to look at her own issues.  Pathetic.

[Eodmava]

So the stbBPDew filed as promised.  She hit me with discovery documents at the same time.  She claims I am hiding money!  Mind you I have been separated from her for a year.  Two small daughters (9 and 3) living at the house with her while I was living in my friends basement.  Four months ago I realized she was not about to "snap out of it" and so I now have my own apartment.   I was still naively hoping for some form of a mediated settlement.  Anyways, I counter-filed and requested disclosure as well.  Seeking to highlight for the court her out of control spending.  Additionally, I have asked her to sign a medical release and present her medical and psychiatric history for the past 5 years.  I'm torn on the custody issue.  Her raging and inability to regulate her frustration in an other than angry demeanor concerns me.

Last night she received the documents from her lawyer.  The documents showed that she was not going to get custody without some discussion and review of her fitness to mother.  The documents also showed that the disposition on the house is not a certainty as well.  Told my lawyer that I am willing to let her buy me out of the equity on the house and refinance in her name alone.  Well, after she received the documents the raging/guilting/threatening phone calls began.  I told her several times, "you chose this divorce path" and that "the children will always have a home with one of us."  She immediately started threatening to take the girls back to her home country. 

This is exhausting.  I am sad for the loss of our family, our home, our dreams... . now to top it off, she has to paint me as the bad guy.  Simply amazing.  She is completely unwilling and unable to look at her own issues.  Pathetic.

[livednlearned]

Hi Eodmava,

Will her history of medical/psychiatric issues show a BPD diagnosis? Or is she being treated for something else that concerns you when it comes to the kids?

And when you say that you're torn on the custody issue, do you mean whether to ask for primary or full custody? If you've been separated for a year, what kind of visitation schedule do you have with the kids?

Divorce is exhausting, it's true. How are you holding up? How are your kids doing?

[GaGrl]

More immediately, who has possession of the children's passports?

Are you concerned enough about her threat to take them out of the country to have your lawyer petition for the court to hold passports or for her to be ordered NOT to leave the country?

[livednlearned]

Good point from Gagrl. If you're worried about her taking the kids out of the US, you can place an alert with US Customs so that they know there is an active custody case.

Might be wise to do that proactively. I'm from a different country than my ex and had to learn how things work -- most family law attorneys don't deal with international stuff a lot. She can't get the kids a passport without both parents signing, unless she forged your signature. That's why it's good to create an alert just in case. If her home country is not part of the Hague Convention, it can be extremely hard to get the kids back. If the country is part of the Hague, they'll have some kind of agreement (it's different for each country) about the degree to which they honor the US custody order. Still, it costs a lot of money to set that stuff in motion. You have to hire a special lawyer blah blah blah.

In your custody order, if you want the kids to be able to travel to her country, you can ask that she posts bail because you think she might be a flight risk. That means that if she doesn't return the kids, her bail kicks in and you have money to hire services to find her on her dime.

[Free One]

More immediately, who has possession of the children's passports?

Are you concerned enough about her threat to take them out of the country to have your lawyer petition for the court to hold passports or for her to be ordered NOT to leave the country?

That was my first thought too.

[Eodmava]

Will her history of medical/psychiatric issues show a BPD diagnosis? Or is she being treated for something else that concerns you when it comes to the kids?

ANSWER:  The current diagnosis that she informed me about a year and a half ago was, ":)epression, Anxiety and C-PTSD."  My concerns stem solely from her behaviors.  Raging when the kids misplace a toy/library book or whatnot.  She is a fairly functional mother when it comes to the day to day life of mothering, but her emotional outbursts are absolutely over the top.  My oldest is starting to exhibit signs of extreme anxiety due to her mothers raging.  In psychological terms she appears to be developing a fear based attachment to her mother.

And when you say that you're torn on the custody issue, do you mean whether to ask for primary or full custody? If you've been separated for a year, what kind of visitation schedule do you have with the kids?

ANSWER:  I feel bad for forcing the custody issue.  Again, she has been a stay at home mom for the past nine years.  He symptoms of BPD really began in the summer of 2008.  It's strange that I can point out an episode of sleep paralysis that took place while she was visiting her parents in the summer of 2008 as when the wheels really started to wobble on the wagon.  The woman that left for a few months visit with her family that summer never returned.  In her place, this angry, raging, blaming monster has emerged.  I've read that this is common to child sex abuse survivors.  Oldest daughter was 3 at that time... . earliest memories of my wife might have started to subconsciously leak out.  Suspected abuser is her father.  I know this from a statement she made to me 14 years ago about her father having fondled her breasts when she was 12 or 13.  She randomly brought it up... . wouldn't discuss it in detail... . and never spoke of it again.  Right now I see the girls every other weekend, one night during the week for dinner.  Good thing is that I get to go on Facetime with them every night for about 30 minutes.   

Divorce is exhausting, it's true. How are you holding up? How are your kids doing?

ANSWER:  I'm holding up well.  Thought I had reached a level of acceptance but seeing/hearing her reaction to the divorce papers is re-traumatizing.  The children appear to be doing as well as can be expected.  Aside from my oldest's anxiety issue, the children appear to be hanging in there.  I'm trying to be their rock throughout this ordeal, but it is difficult with my full time job and not being there daily to know what is really going on.


Divorce is exhausting, it's true. How are you holding up? How are your kids doing?More immediately, who has possession of the children's passports?

ANSWER:  She has the passports at our marital home.  I mentioned my concerns to my lawyer and he didn't think it was a big deal as her country is a signatory to the Hague convention.  I still would like to see the passports surrendered and I have voluminous texts detailing her threats to take the kids back to her country.  Not only do I worry about not seeing the children, but her family is awash in mental illness.  She has a brother and a sister that are both dealing with severe psychological issues as well. 

Are you concerned enough about her threat to take them out of the country to have your lawyer petition for the court to hold passports or for her to be ordered NOT to leave the country?

ANSWER:  My lawyer is informed and is working through this with me right now.

[ForeverDad]

You should probably file for a court order that she cannot take the children out of the country until the divorce and custody are settled.  (Keep in mind it may be easier to get an order if it applies to both of you.)  Do you have documentation (a recording or witness/audience) to her threatening to take the kids out of the country?  If so, that will support you filing to get a court order that the children are not to be taken out of the country.  A piece of paper may not stop her from obstructing your parenting, but

Plan ahead, do you expect to take the children on vacations out of the area in the next year or two?  If so then you may want language in the order to allow certain vacation arrangements.  Your lawyer may say you don't need that level of detail but believe me, you need to plan ahead just in case.  During my divorce I notified my ex of a vacation out of state, she said she has temp custody and she wasn't giving permission, my lawyer said, You gave notice, go ahead, I'll cover for you, so ex tried to get my sheriff's deputies to declare an Amber Alert.  It wouldn't have gotten that far if the temp order had been more detailed on the vague order.

[livednlearned]

Do you have documentation (a recording or witness/audience) to her threatening to take the kids out of the country?  If so, that will support you filing to get a court order that the children are not to be taken out of the country. 

The court will want some kind of proof that she is a flight risk.

It's a good idea to nip this early -- even if her country is part of the Hague, it sure does sound like an expensive process to try and get your kids back.

[Eodmava]

Thanks for the advice and yes... . it will be expensive enough to divorce.  I really don't need an international custody saga to add to the pain for my daughters and me.

I have literally a dozen text messages threatening to take the girls to her home country.  In other words, no shortage of evidence.

I'm sending an email to my lawyer immediately.

MAVA

[livednlearned]

I'm torn on the custody issue.  Her raging and inability to regulate her frustration in an other than angry demeanor concerns me.

Can you tell us a bit more about being torn on the custody issue? We often say here that the kids are better off spending majority time with the more stable parent. Parental alienation tends to go hand-in-hand with high-conflict divorces, and one of the most important things to counter PA is to spend as much time with your kids as possible.

There is also some sobering realities about kids being raised by a BPD mother (undiagnosed and untreated): How a Mother with Borderline Personality Disorder Affects Her Children

[Eodmava]

By "torn on the custody issue" I simply mean that she is a functional mother in almost every sense of the word.  She is good at getting them up, caring for them, moving them from place to place.  I know that this is 10% actually loving them in a healthy way and about 90% "appearing to be" a good mom. 

I work 60-80 hours some weeks.  This would make parenting even 50% of the time an extreme challenge for me.  Currently I have them every other weekend and dinner one night per week.  I am currently working out a deal with the lawyers whereby I will have custody of the little girls from thurs afterschool until Monday morning drop off at school every other week.  Also for the entire afternoon and evening on one day per week.  I know this is sub-optimal but it's the best I can do until we have a custody hearing and possible evaluation to take a look at the more egregious behaviors.  If I do end up with custody, I will be looking to hire a nanny or some other form of consistent daycare... . again, sub-optimal... . but better than explosive raging.

[ForeverDad]

If I do end up with custody, I will be looking to hire a nanny or some other form of consistent daycare... . again, sub-optimal... . but better than explosive raging.

Yes, daycare is better than explosive raging.  And it helps minimize the typical isolation many pwBPD impose on their family.

History has shown that the reasonably normal parent is not always the 'only' target.  Besides the children being exposed to it, more often than not the children also get some abuse or conflict or inconsistency or invalidation or emotional blaming or emotional manipulation or emotional pressuring or {whatever} - whether or not the reasonably normal parent is a convenient target.  But at least if you can provide the children a safe and stable home for at least part of their lives, it will help them.

Likely you will not get custody unless you are proactive and diligently seek strategies to obtain it.  A custody evaluation by a qualified evaluator will almost surely be necessary.  Don't be timid, step forward, your children need every minute possible in your care.

If there are financial claims and counterclaims you may need a Special Master, a forensic accountant.  However, these claims may go away by the time you get to that stage.  This is not to say you should ignore them.  Part of establishing temporary orders is to determine if the children need child support paid and how much.  Remember, don't appear to be obstructing support, but don't roll over either.

Too often it feels like fathers are told to go away, start new lives but leave their wallets behind.  The reality is you are leaving the marriage - more like driven away - but you are NOT leaving your children.  It will feel like everyone is painting a picture that you're leaving the children, especially the ex-spouse, so it's up to you to make sure that impression doesn't have any foundation in reality.