pwBPD's response to death of parent?

[Depression = 72% of members]

The father of my exuBPDgf died a year ago in relatively young age (63) and while her being 27.

After his death, I had difficulties dealing with her greif, she withdrew and she didn't share any deeper emotions with me. I felt unable to comfort her and ended up withdrawing from her too. In the end we hardly spoke and it would mostly be arguments.

4 months later, last May, she left me. She immediately started a relationship with her sister's ex-bf (the sister and him, had been split up for 2 years, but this was a person my exuBPDgf always idealized). We were together for 4 years, and I am pretty confident that she was not the cheating on me (waif borderline), but she definitely had him lined up... .

My question is this:

How does the greif process pass along for a pwBPD? Is that the same normal greif patter as for NON? Considering their lack of object consistency, how do they deal with the person all of a sudden gone missing?

Thanks

[GuiltHaunted]

The father of my exuBPDgf died a year ago in relatively young age (63) and while her being 27.

After his death, I had difficulties dealing with her greif, she withdrew and she didn't share any deeper emotions with me. I felt unable to comfort her and ended up withdrawing from her too. In the end we hardly spoke and it would mostly be arguments.

4 months later, last May, she left me. She immediately started a relationship with her sister's ex-bf (the sister and him, had been split up for 2 years, but this was a person my exuBPDgf always idealized). We were together for 4 years, and I am pretty confident that she was not the cheating on me (waif borderline), but she definitely had him lined up... .

My question is this:

How does the greif process pass along for a pwBPD? Is that the same normal greif patter as for NON? Considering their lack of object consistency, how do they deal with the person all of a sudden gone missing?

Thanks

[santa]

I don't think it ever passes, truthfully. Both of my ex's parents are still alive, but I am certain that her mother is borderline also. Her mother is still mental over her dad's death and that was a really long time ago. Get a few drinks in her and it's all she talks about. Then she talks about herself dying soon, etc. It's extremely annoying. I'm sure my ex will be the same way. She's going to be a basket case when either of her parents die.

I wouldn't expect it to pass any time soon. She may be cool about it for awhile or whatever, but it'll come up more often than you think and be a huge issue.

[Tausk]

From what I understand, pwBPD really don't grieve.  How would a traumatized three year deal with the death of her father?  That's probably the best analogy.

Just like they don't grieve the loss of a relationship the same way.  The emotions are too high.  The pain too great.  The inability to fully comprehend the concepts of human connection.  Mine would try and deal with the losses, but really just forgot as her coping tool.

My grieve is both joy and sorrow, which allows the acceptance process of loss to occur.  But black and white thinking of BPD preclude this as well.

And often it's interpreted as just another example of abandonment, which can trigger insecurities on all fronts.  As the song Hurt states, " And everyone goes away, in the end."

[santa]

From what I understand, pwBPD really don't grieve.  How would a traumatized three year deal with the death of her father?  That's probably the best analogy.

Just like they don't grieve the loss of a relationship the same way.  The emotions are too high.  The pain too great.  The inability to fully comprehend the concepts of human connection.  Mine would try and deal with the losses, but really just forgot as her coping tool.

My grieve is both joy and sorrow, which allows the acceptance process of loss to occur.  But black and white thinking of BPD preclude this as well.

And often it's interpreted as just another example of abandonment, which can trigger insecurities on all fronts.  As the song Hurt states, " And everyone goes away, in the end."

It may just be a tool to start drama then. Just another desperate ploy for attention. That makes more sense than them actually caring.

[Turkish]

While like to definr and categorize based upon common behaviors, we should remember that pwBPD are still that: people.

Mine showed real grief when her coworker and friend died suddenly at a young age. It seemed a normal process to me. They tend to, however, define themselves by their attachments. Mine, I think, will be devastated when her mom passes on. Her codependent enmeshment may make it so much worse. Her dad, the major Source, I have no idea. She will always have the kids for emotional support though. Despite all of her typical BPD behaviors towards me, I think she might really grieve my passing. I'm almost 11 years older. That doesn't mean anything to me one way or the other though.

[Murbay]

My BPDgf lost one of her best friends at the start of the month. She has taken it really hard and withdrawn, except she is also putting on a public face of wild party animal too.

I don't think for her it is as simple as losing a close friend. She found out last week he took his own life and wrongly has taken the blame for that one. She was having trouble with her abusive exh and her friend witnessed a lot of the abuse. A week prior to his death, he wrote a letter for the courts and then was due to visit her the week after his death. Because he was involved in something either side, she has blamed herself and then turned on everybody else. There is no getting close to her right now.

I might be coming at it from the wrong angle and totally off the mark but given her treatment of me and others in terms of the speed she pushed us all away, I would suspect her grief is more related to abandonment. It doesn't mean it's not genuine grief, just that there is more going on inside of them in terms of emotional battle.

[growing_wings]

when mine lost a very close family member to her, she did not seem affected when she was alone or with me. is like nothing happened, but to the outside world, she made the impression she was hurting terribly, as she talked a lot with people saying how hurt she was, she posted a lot of stuff in FB that made the impression she was hurting (even months after the passing), but indoors, i did not see a grieving period as I have seen in others, or as i would experience it, indoors it was business as usual.

this gave me really conflicting thoughts about her.

[sm15000]

is like nothing happened, but to the outside world, she made the impression she was hurting terribly, as she talked a lot with people saying how hurt she was, she posted a lot of stuff in FB that made the impression she was hurting (even months after the passing), but indoors, i did not see a grieving period as I have seen in others, or as i would experience it, indoors it was business as usual.

this gave me really conflicting thoughts about her.

Mmm. . .I recognise this!

My ex lost both his parents before I met him.  I think his mother's death when he was in his late teens was part of his trauma.  I too had lost my dad, and in the very early days of knowing him, my Mum died.  Now, especially for someone who has felt that loss, but in anyone with empathy you would give a I'm sorry. . .he very coldly said 'oh have you had the funeral and all that'

When my friend lost her brother (in his 30s) to addiction, I was tearful at telling him.  He looked at me confused saying 'you seem upset'.  He didn't have the capacity to naturally react in the moment, if you get what I mean, but he could play a part to the outside world - he was very clever at learning 'appropriate responses'.

I should imagine that's what he's done to the outside world over our break-up but I didn't see any real grieving there either   

[Popcorn71]

My exBPDh never seemed to grieve when people close to him died.

His brother died unexpectedly at the age of 43 and everybody was shocked.  However, my ex didn't shed a tear or seem to be particularly bothered.  I remember somebody saying at the funeral that he was probably still in shock and that it would hit him at a later date.  As far as I know, that never happened.  After the funeral, he rarely mentioned his brother again.

Recently, just after we split up, my ex's mother died.  I called him to offer support and he calmly told me he didn't need my support as he was now living with another woman.  I was told that he took this woman and her family to the funeral even though they didn't know his mother and that he had barely spoken to any of his old friends and family there.  Prior to this, after a family row, he hadn't spoken to his mother for 3 years.  He had just cut her out of his life completely.

The only time I ever noticed him appear sad when a person died, was when an old friend died.  He didn't cry but often talked about this friend for a while after he died.  He even kept the friend's number in his phone and was really annoyed when the phone became faulty and lost all the numbers in it.  I don't know why he was so bothered about that particular friend.

[GreenMango]

Guilthaunted,

I speak from personal experience regarding this particular subject.  Mine had a very complicated love hate relationship with both parents but especially with the primary parent, father, it was pretty heart breaking to witness.

When the father was ailing it really began to go downhill.  From crying spells about being alone to saying things like he wish his father would die so he could be free. Id say there was alot of grief but very poor coping skills.  The event was a catalyst and it was the beginning of the end for us too.

The way that the pwBPD in my life dealt with it was severe mood swings, losing a job, lots of conflicts with those closest, self medicating on any pills or drugs he could get his hands on, unreasonable expectations of others, gambling, lots of social anxiety and paranoia about othersetc.

I came here with the same questions you have looking for answers.  And struggled with guilt quite a bit because of the situation.

What I did realize in time is grief strikes people in different ways.  Most people have some set of skills to deal, people with BPD don't and tend to self destruct or destroy relationships during times of emotional distress.

[feelingcrazy7832]

GreenMango - I thought I was reading about my ex when I read your post, especially this... .

The way that the pwBPD in my life dealt with it was severe mood swings, losing a job, lots of conflicts with those closest, self medicating on any pills or drugs he could get his hands on, unreasonable expectations of others, gambling, lots of social anxiety and paranoia about othersetc.

I think we dated the same person.

[GuiltHaunted]

Thanks for all the replies... .

What is am really curious to know is what happens with the "acceptance" stage of the normal greif process?

Of course I am sure she will still remember her father and feel bad that he is gone.

Q: But will she still "feel him" when thinking about him?

I read that pwBPD forgets the feeling they have for a person that is not in their presence.


About the greif process, mine withdrew too or had conflicts with everyone. When showing emotion then mostly aggression, she was implosive, unreasonable etc.

[seeking balance]

GuiltHaunted,

I went through this scenerio as well... . my BPDexw NPD mother died and frankly all hell broke loose.  She withdrew, angry, stopped taking meds, and left too.

The MC explained to me that I had become the persecutor in her mind.  Core abandonment - and since I was closest, she needed to attach somewhere else - that is a very simplistic version of the situation.

Thanks for all the replies... .

What is am really curious to know is what happens with the "acceptance" stage of the normal greif process?

Of course I am sure she will still remember her father and feel bad that he is gone.

Q: But will she still "feel him" when thinking about him?

I read that pwBPD forgets the feeling they have for a person that is not in their presence.

You are talking about object constancy - basically, out of sight out of mind.  It is a complex coping mechanism to the abandonment.

I honestly don't know the actual feelings of a pwBPD as an untreated pwBPD likely doesn't know the feelings either.

Can you tell me more about what you mean will happen at the acceptance stage?

[GuiltHaunted]

Normally, in the last grief stage (acceptance), the memory of the deceased person will be incorporated into your new reality.

Most of us are probably old enough to have lost an parent or grandparent. In my case, when I see a picture or think of a memory of one of my grandparents (all deceased now), I think with joy of the person (behavior, jokes they told, facial expressions etc) or e.g. re-live a memory of being with them in my childhood. I am still able to feel, how I felt about that person and I still feels the love they had for me. But I have accepted their passing and hence, don't become sad.

They are now a part of me, and have found their right shelf in my mind. To come to that point didn't take long, all within a few months of their passing (years ago). They all died of old age, and at a natural place in my life development, so I think that helps speed grief recovery up.

BUT, for a pwBPD, how does e.g. my ex-gf FEEL, when she looks at a picture of her deceased father - now 1 year after his death? Does she feel like she has lost the "connection" to him? Does she feel like she is looking at a person she doesn't know anymore (and perhaps never knew)?

[Pretty Woman]

Mine always told me if her mother ever died I should expect she would be a complete mess, unable to cope.

The thing is she was already a complete mess, unable to cope. I can't imagine worse.

When her mom had a stroke she dumped me.  She cannot handle stress/stressors at all.  When her friend's grandson died, she dumped me.

I could not have stress or ever feel bad. Everything was predictably unpredictable. I do not miss the chaos with the only certainty is that she would leave me. God bless anyone who may be with her when her mother does eventually pass.

[halfnelson]

From what I've observed, it often hits harder because there's resentment and confusion about the loss. PLUS you also get some self-centredness that you may feel unprepared for.

I know that when a pwBPD loses someone to suicide, there is intense jealousy that this person had the courage to go through with it. Losing a parent is horrible for anyone, let alone a parent who may not have been there for them or was abusive.

Grief is different for everybody, and I don't think having a personality disorder makes a great deal of difference. One of my sisters isn't diagnosed with anything, yet she cries EVERY DAY about our Mother and acts as if she was the only one to have lost her. She made the entire funeral about herself too, as if to show everyone she was a great daughter, and managed to completely contradict our Mother's last wishes for her own selfish display. We still haven't scattered the ashes because she took them and is reluctant to let them go.

Funny thing about me losing my mother is that I worried I would be a complete mess when she died. She was always warning me she 'could be dead tomorrow' and made me fear losing her, but it just felt hugely ironic when she did die.

The stages of grief are only a guide. There isn't a set amount of time, or set number of stages, and then things start to feel a bit normal again. For me, it took a bit longer than I expected, but it's something I just get on with it and then life carries on. I was so very lucky that a lot of my friends had also lost their parents, so I didn't feel so alone.

I only wish I had been able to be in touch with it, and not been drunk a lot of the time. I put myself at great risk from being drunk a lot, and was assaulted TWICE in 3 months because I was vulnerable and nasty people clearly saw that (by strangers in public places, for clarification).

Bereavement counselling helped very much. There was a sympathetic ear, and they would also have experienced complex grief, so everything felt normal. I would recommend it to everyone.

My husband, however, after his ex girlfriend died, went on a drink and sex spree. He seems to have completely got over her by meeting me, and that makes me horribly uncomfortable. She broke up with him, tried to be his friend, and he was so hitty to her, told her not to call again, then she died a couple of weeks later. After that, he got into a relationship with someone he didn't particularly like(well, he certainly did not respect her), just because he felt he needed looking after. I wonder if he'll ever get in touch with that and think about what really happened there. 3 years seems like an awfully long time to spend with someone you don't get on with, just to avoid being alone. And I wonder if the girlfriend would have died if she had not been so unhappy about the break-up. It sounds like she did it because she needed a break, not because she stopped loving him.

Anyway, I suppose I am just sharing and maybe none of what I've posted is much use. I haven't much insight to add because grief is such a personal thing.

How does a pwBPD feel when they've lost someone close to them? Well, they might feel angry that it wasn't them. They might feel more empty than ever before. They may be glad, if that person was particularly abusive... . or go the complete opposite way and idealise that abuser. Some will become detached and move on with life that way, and some will decide to never cope with it. They might use grief as a tool to get their way, and you might want to let it slide for a while, but after a while, I'm not sure how you can deal with that level of manipulation. It is possibly hard for them to even know if they mean to manipulate you or not.

[seeking balance]

BUT, for a pwBPD, how does e.g. my ex-gf FEEL, when she looks at a picture of her deceased father - now 1 year after his death? Does she feel like she has lost the "connection" to him? Does she feel like she is looking at a person she doesn't know anymore (and perhaps never knew)?

Yes, to all of that depending upon how she is feeling in the moment.  The emotions may not be much different than anyone else's except the intensity of those emotions can cause a maladpative coping... . perhaps splitting, lack of object constancy, drinking, some sort of unhealthy behavior to help relieve the pain.

She may idealize one day and hate the next or not feel anything - the disorder rules the emotional responses in times of real abandonment.

How does this effect you - are you worried about something?

[DivorcedNon]

There is a physical death of a parent and there is also situation in which due to Alzheimer's disease her mother did not remember my ex's name any more and would not recognize her on the phone! My mother died from cancer but i could talk to her until the last moment. Alzheimer's is a slow non physical death of a parent.

In addition there was extra pressure at work, problems with kids, peri menopause etc.  Her response to all of this was to drink more, travel more, cheat and stay away from her parents more! She neglected her children too. She could not deal with it. In addition she was terrified of having Alzheimer's when she gets older.

Since I have been in a strict NC with her for last 20 months I do not know if her parents are still alive. I hope that they are. They were good to me and my children. When my time comes I would like to die healthy!

[GuiltHaunted]

How does this effect you - are you worried about something?

No, I am not quite over her yet. That is the truth. I want to know what she may feel. I want to be prepared for when/if she resumes contact with me.

After she broke up with me, I had limited contact with her for 11/2 month. Only stuff about practical nature. Like post, picking stuff up etc. The she had an outburst of rage, that I didn't care about her, had never called, didn't ask her how she was doing... . all while she was in a new relationship. Also it was all untrue, I did call, I did ask her how she was doing. But left her mostly to herself because she had asked for it, and didn't show her any emotions.

I was not aware of BPD at the time, and didn't consider her a sick person, although she has a history of institutionalization, 10 year therapy and was on anti depressant medication in the beginning of of relationship. She always told me that her world would collapse when her father died.

After her rant, I confessed that I was doing terrible, and she turned nice again but told me that I should put my hopes up. Later on I picked up my last things from her (one of two times I saw her after the breakup). And after that, I told her that I knew about her new relationship and also that I knew who he was. I didn't pass judgement, but told her I wanted to communicate open with her, that I understood that she had to live it out and she didn't need to keep it a secret, because it was more important to me that we could communicate.

Her response, was to tell me that she didn't want to have contact with me anymore... . That is until a few month later, when she wrote me about some insignificant post I got at her address. She wrote polite and asked how I was, like she never asked me for no contact.

Then the contact resumed again and continued for a few month with occasional polite exchange of messages. Me, again keeping my feelings to myself (like the advice is with normal breakups). Until December, where I again opened up to her. When she didn't open the least bit to me, I told her never ever to contact me again. That was after Xmas, so this is where things stand at the moment.

Maybe, I rejected her so bad on the last occasion, the she indeed never contacts me again. On the other hand, she might have forgotten already. Who know?


As to what I SHOULD be doing, I am in serious consideration about what I want and what not. I am not even sure I will let her into my life again, but I guess you all understand that situation.

[seeking balance]

As to what I SHOULD be doing, I am in serious consideration about what I want and what not. I am not even sure I will let her into my life again, but I guess you all understand that situation.

oh yeah - most of us here were part of the bouncing back and forth until we weren't.

The thing is, this is just who she is - it is her, all of it.  The way she treats you then disappears (I hate you, don't Leave me) behavior is classic BPD triggered.

So, if you can handle that - no harm to you, then no worries.

Most of us here cannot handle that, thus the support to truly understand the facts so that we can make choices for our own mental health.

Will she contact you again?  Her pattern suggests this... . how you handle it really is up to you and what you want or can handle.

[arn131arn]

I have avoided this damn topic for a while.  Seeing it in the qeue, and scrolling right past it.

My father died almost four years ago.  I was a walking zombie for a week.  I can remember vividly sitting down at our dining room table and writing his eulogy.  I would write and cry and pace, write and cry and pace, write and cry and pace.  

My exwBPD sat on the couch and studied for her nursing school test.  No comfort, no compassion, no understanding, no hugs, no nothing. She wasn't mean or angry.  I think she was so dysregulated that she didn't know how to handle the nurturing I needed at that time.

Who knows she could have beenlaughing inside... .

[GuiltHaunted]

I read about BPD in the fall, but was too emotional to grasp what that all meant. It's only after the last contact in December, that I have had the emotional capacity, to read up on it thoroughly. And believe me... . I have spent literally weeks now (it's low season for my work, so I have the time), reading up on borderline.

I would probably make a HUGE mistake if the opportunity to go back present itself, and I take it. I still, do believe that I would be able to manage, armed with all the knowledge I have now. But I am probably deluding myself, probably it would be worse, because I would analyze anything she says and does, and she would probably grow tired very quickly of having me trying to help her. Plus, it's probably more my own vanity that wants to go back and "fix the mess up" - I hate failures!

All I can say is, I am doing great now. I even looked over some photos of her today (which I didn't do for months), and I see her in another light. I backed up her phone for her on one occasion, and she took a series of pictures of herself, maybe 20. I have no clue why... . maybe she picked one out and sent to me. She would often send me pictures of herself (that I wouldn't "forget" her most likely). In the middle of the series is a close up of her teeth. I just laughed, she looks ridiculous on most of the photos, and they frankly doesn't look like they were taken by someone who is wired correctly. It was the worst 9 months of my life. But I think I am just about through... . 

This is a slight thread drift, but a big THANK YOU, for caring to ask, why I ask.