BPD conscience and guilt following splitting?

[Depression = 72% of members]

After a year of intense long-distance contact (we live on different continents) with a very old friend who I strongly suspect has BPD, our most recent "run" has ended after a several-week phase of idealization and then a quick phase of devaluation. When I asked what happened to change his opinion so quickly, he shut down and told me I am sucking the life out of him and I need to just leave him alone.

I responded by saying that I am hurt, I wish I understood why he changed so suddenly, but will give him time and space, care very much about him and am here when he wants contact. He never responded to that.

It's been a week since he contacted me, the longest time we've been without contact in many months.

The end to this was all very distanced and cold, it sounded like he was entering a deep depressive phase, and I am left feeling uneasy.

My question: do pwBPD later reflect on these kinds of situations, and feel sad, guilty, etc. for how they behaved, or is it just over, like it is for a young child? Or do they feel ashamed of their behavior, and if so, does this inhibit them from taking up contact again?

In the past his silent phases have lasted up to 18 months- I can't deal with such a long silence while still feeling uneasy about not having ended this at least peacefully. Should I just try to let go and wait it out, or send a neutral "hello" message sometime?

[djblazer]

After a year of intense long-distance contact (we live on different continents) with a very old friend who I strongly suspect has BPD, our most recent "run" has ended after a several-week phase of idealization and then a quick phase of devaluation. When I asked what happened to change his opinion so quickly, he shut down and told me I am sucking the life out of him and I need to just leave him alone.

I responded by saying that I am hurt, I wish I understood why he changed so suddenly, but will give him time and space, care very much about him and am here when he wants contact. He never responded to that.

It's been a week since he contacted me, the longest time we've been without contact in many months.

The end to this was all very distanced and cold, it sounded like he was entering a deep depressive phase, and I am left feeling uneasy.

My question: do pwBPD later reflect on these kinds of situations, and feel sad, guilty, etc. for how they behaved, or is it just over, like it is for a young child? Or do they feel ashamed of their behavior, and if so, does this inhibit them from taking up contact again?

In the past his silent phases have lasted up to 18 months- I can't deal with such a long silence while still feeling uneasy about not having ended this at least peacefully. Should I just try to let go and wait it out, or send a neutral "hello" message sometime?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Hope26]

Hi djblazer,

I started a post awhile back asking almost the exact same question you are asking here.  I think I entitled it ":)o they remember the raging?"  But you are asking in an even more direct way, because what we really want to know is, are they sorry for their actions.  I don't know how to pick up a quote like others here do, but your second-to-last paragraph says it all:

":)o they reflect on these kinds of situations, and feel sad, guilty, etc. for how they behaved, or is it just over like it is for a young child?"

My experience has been that it is just over, like it is for a young child; he doesn't seem to even remember the behavior, and I'm apparently not supposed to do so either.  So I've been trying to cope with that, in order to save myself some heartache.  Since joining this board, I've learned some tools that have helped a lot (not JADEing, trying to validate his feelings to avoid rages, taking rages less personally, etc.)  Having said that though, we are married and I have never had episodes where I've been ignored for long periods of time.  If I were you I would have to ask myself if this relationship is important enough to keep trying.  Life is too short. You may want to look up my prior post and see how others responded, since we're basically asking the same question.

[djblazer]

Thank you, Hope26, for your reply.

I wonder if it is different from a distance. In the past when my pwBPD has re-initiated contact after a long break, it certainly has been as though nothing happened. But sometimes if only a day to two has gone by in between, the past "incident" will be mentioned and I might even get an apology.

So would I be correct in assuming that even though my pwBPD said he needs a break, that if I contact him again, he may well have forgotten that by now?

[Hope26]

It certainly is possible, and may be worth a try, since you are wanting to hang in there with the relationship.  I think we need to learn to forgive and forget, without necessarily expecting apologies, if these relationships are to work.  I respect you for your perseverance!

[dontknow2]

My question: do pwBPD later reflect on these kinds of situations, and feel sad, guilty, etc. for how they behaved, or is it just over, like it is for a young child? Or do they feel ashamed of their behavior, and if so, does this inhibit them from taking up contact again?

In the past his silent phases have lasted up to 18 months- I can't deal with such a long silence while still feeling uneasy about not having ended this at least peacefully. Should I just try to let go and wait it out, or send a neutral "hello" message sometime?

dj,

I am sorry you are hurting.

My dxBPDh feels sad, guilty, etc. for his behavior. He tortures himself with how he hurts others for years; it's his way of validating his lack of self-worth. That said, he has a complex mental web on how he stores the incident so it may not ever be visible to me again. Yet, this has never inhibited contact with me indefinitely... . there were longer NC runs where I stepped in to intervene though.

I don't have any advice on your next steps other than to listen to your needs first.

[unicorn2014]

I guess the question is do you really want to be treated that way? A person can't stop splitting without professional help or the desire to stop so if your friend has not recognized he has a problem he may never change. Do you really want to subject yourself to this?

[djblazer]

Thank you, Hope, for your reply. My friend has said many times that he feels he is doing me a favor by staying out of my life, because he realizes it brings me more pain than joy. 

I guess the question is do you really want to be treated that way? A person can't stop splitting without professional help or the desire to stop so if your friend has not recognized he has a problem he may never change. Do you really want to subject yourself to this?

The thing is, I think that I am a very understanding, non-excitable, emotionally stable person and I am saddened that he is causing his own loneliness. I realize that he is not doing this on purpose to hurt me and I realize that this is hurting him as much if not more than it is hurting me. I do want to be back in contact, but I don't want to encounter any rage if I get in touch, though in the past he's usually just picked up as though nothing happened. It's been about 3 weeks in the meantime.

[djblazer]

My dxBPDh feels sad, guilty, etc. for his behavior. He tortures himself with how he hurts others for years; it's his way of validating his lack of self-worth. That said, he has a complex mental web on how he stores the incident so it may not ever be visible to me again. Yet, this has never inhibited contact with me indefinitely... . there were longer NC runs where I stepped in to intervene though.

I don't have any advice on your next steps other than to listen to your needs first.

Dontknow2, could you explain what you mean about him storing incidents so they are not visible to you?

[waverider]

The thing is, I think that I am a very understanding, non-excitable, emotionally stable person and I am saddened that he is causing his own loneliness. I realize that he is not doing this on purpose to hurt me and I realize that this is hurting him as much if not more than it is hurting me. I do want to be back in contact, but I don't want to encounter any rage if I get in touch, though in the past he's usually just picked up as though nothing happened. It's been about 3 weeks in the meantime.

The problem is BPD is a self sabotaging disorder. It can only be addressed with a lot of self soothing. Getting involved in this process can lead to a lot of collateral damage, so you do have to proceed cautiously.

[waverider]

My dxBPDh feels sad, guilty, etc. for his behavior. He tortures himself with how he hurts others for years; it's his way of validating his lack of self-worth. That said, he has a complex mental web on how he stores the incident so it may not ever be visible to me again. Yet, this has never inhibited contact with me indefinitely... . there were longer NC runs where I stepped in to intervene though.

I don't have any advice on your next steps other than to listen to your needs first.

Dontknow2, could you explain what you mean about him storing incidents so they are not visible to you?

pwBPD are very good at self validating negative thoughts. They do have good memories though the recollections go through a twisted BPD filter to suit the emotion of the moment.

eg I feel bad, their mind then trawls through all the past incidents as to why they are bad. You are bad, their mind trawls through their memories as to why you are bad. They can even recollect the same memory for both cases but twist the versions to suit who is to blame.

The memories are simply building blocks to be pulled out of storage to be assembled as appropriately to construct whatever needs to be validated in the now. Owning a "fact" now, does not stop it being disowned in the future. The" fact" is just a currency to spent however suits their needs and impulses.

If you are witness to an original "fact" it is less valuable than a "fact" you were not witness to. This is the currency of triangulation and general backstabbing.

[JMS]

I remember a number of years ago, after a round of fighting, my wife telling me that she would say something mean to me, then she would realize that what she said was mean, then get angry at herself for saying it and then she would just spiral from there.

If she still understands what she's doing, she's hiding it well, because in the last several years, I have to push hard just to get her to admit when she's wrong and forget about an "I'm sorry."

[waverider]

I remember a number of years ago, after a round of fighting, my wife telling me that she would say something mean to me, then she would realize that what she said was mean, then get angry at herself for saying it and then she would just spiral from there.

If she still understands what she's doing, she's hiding it well, because in the last several years, I have to push hard just to get her to admit when she's wrong and forget about an "I'm sorry."

She took responsibility, and now has realised she cannot change and hence accepting responsibility and not being able to fix it leaves her in a bad place. Now she avoids the bad place by denying responsibility.

One of the issues with getting better is first accepting responsibility, but until such time as they learn coping skills this phase puts them in a very bad place feeling like an even bigger failure now that their primal defenses (denial) has been taken away

[SleepsOnSofa]

What waverider says makes sense, based on my experience with my uBPDw. It's rare - but not absolutely unheard-of - that she will apologize after a rage. Usually, once things have been quiet for a day or so because we've managed to avoid each other long enough, she just goes on like it never happened. If I ask her about it, or mention the argument, it will erupt all over again, as if it had never stopped. But usually, if I let it lie, she will act as though nothing was wrong. It's as if she just doesn't remember the episode unless I remind her, which just puts her back in the middle of it.