The quite BPD or waif

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have spent more time reading then writing here and one thing I find is that although many traits are similar between my exBPDgf and the common characteristics, she was not really a queen or witch and did not out worldly rage. Because I could never get into her head, she just stopped sharing, I obviously don't know what was really going on, but by many of her comments and behaviors I believe she did so inwardly. Comments like put me out of my misery when I would ask how to help her with her migraines, which left me feeling hopeless, and a lot of passive aggressive insulting things said to me that were so indirect but obviously hurtful that I let slide! She cried a lot In the beginning, but when I tried to comfort her she would leave the room explaining she needed time to process, again leaving me helpless, confused and eventually frustrated and emotional shut down. At the end she hide the crying when I stopped trying to comfort her out of pure frustration and confusion!

She would constantly have night terrors and talk in her sleep how she was a bad person and let everyone down. Even using her full name to say how she was a bad person. Like talking in first person! I would stroke her hair and tell her how much she was loved and that she is a good person and she would stay asleep, but calm down! Sometimes I would question if she was really asleep because it seemed, I don't know how to explain it, fake or manipulative, like she was trying to get me to sooth her. After a year of this I was woke up from one of her night episodes and I mumbled out loud to myself you got to be kidding me, for I had gotten little sleep that night. Well she heard me and was upset and went to sleep on the couch. I apologized and asked her what had happened for I was woken out of sleep an my response was subconscious out of so many times dealing with this. She said she had a dream she was in a box that was closing on her and I was the one turning the crank, so my response hurt that much more. I comforted her and apologized! Looking back and realizing she would never walk up when I comforted her or try to talk to her before, I find it strange how easily she reacted to my one sentence murmur! It would make sense it was all an act to get soothed, I don't know, but it did make me have great compassion for her!

What do others think and are there people on this board who have experience with the quite waif BPD? I have found some info about this saying the rage is acted in not out! It makes it more difficult to not have compassion and move on because it seemed inward! Without a doubt looking back over the whole relationship I can see many types of this manipulation! I think? So confused!

[Rebuilding me]

I have spent more time reading then writing here and one thing I find is that although many traits are similar between my exBPDgf and the common characteristics, she was not really a queen or witch and did not out worldly rage. Because I could never get into her head, she just stopped sharing, I obviously don't know what was really going on, but by many of her comments and behaviors I believe she did so inwardly. Comments like put me out of my misery when I would ask how to help her with her migraines, which left me feeling hopeless, and a lot of passive aggressive insulting things said to me that were so indirect but obviously hurtful that I let slide! She cried a lot In the beginning, but when I tried to comfort her she would leave the room explaining she needed time to process, again leaving me helpless, confused and eventually frustrated and emotional shut down. At the end she hide the crying when I stopped trying to comfort her out of pure frustration and confusion!

She would constantly have night terrors and talk in her sleep how she was a bad person and let everyone down. Even using her full name to say how she was a bad person. Like talking in first person! I would stroke her hair and tell her how much she was loved and that she is a good person and she would stay asleep, but calm down! Sometimes I would question if she was really asleep because it seemed, I don't know how to explain it, fake or manipulative, like she was trying to get me to sooth her. After a year of this I was woke up from one of her night episodes and I mumbled out loud to myself you got to be kidding me, for I had gotten little sleep that night. Well she heard me and was upset and went to sleep on the couch. I apologized and asked her what had happened for I was woken out of sleep an my response was subconscious out of so many times dealing with this. She said she had a dream she was in a box that was closing on her and I was the one turning the crank, so my response hurt that much more. I comforted her and apologized! Looking back and realizing she would never walk up when I comforted her or try to talk to her before, I find it strange how easily she reacted to my one sentence murmur! It would make sense it was all an act to get soothed, I don't know, but it did make me have great compassion for her!

What do others think and are there people on this board who have experience with the quite waif BPD? I have found some info about this saying the rage is acted in not out! It makes it more difficult to not have compassion and move on because it seemed inward! Without a doubt looking back over the whole relationship I can see many types of this manipulation! I think? So confused!

[arn131arn]

My experience with a BPD Waif:

1.) She will destroy you

2.) She will not take care of herself financially, emotionally, or intellectually.  She   will work out twice a day and three times on Sunday though

3.) She will alienate you from your kids

4.) She will enmesh your kids

5.) She will infantalize your kids

6.) She will talk bad about you in front of your kids

7.) If she did this with your kids, she will certainly do it with anyone else

8.) She will triangulate with your family, friends, and people in the community

9.) She will cheat on you

10.) She will lie to you

11.) She will call the cops on you with false DV charges

12.) She just may be a covert Narcissist

13.) She will verbally abuse you

14.) She will emotionally abuse you

15.) She will physically abuse you, and when you defend yourself, she will call 911

16.) She will assasinate your character and come back 3 weeks later

17.) She will be entitled to everything you worked for

18.) She will need you to take care of her, bc she cannot take care of herself

19.) She will use you and leave when she no longer needs you

20.) She will not be happy until she brings you to your knees

She is a dangerous woman.  There may be noone as dangerous as her.  The waif is a professional victim and noone plays it better.  She will sit on the bleachers at the playground watching her son play baseball.  It doesn't matter he is the best slugger on the team.  One of the only ones to hit multiple HRs at the age of 7 (over the fence).

But it's her partner (the abuser) that makes her so sad for the world to see.  That same partner who she just laughed and joked with on the way to the playground.  Nothing will please her.  No family, no job, no home, no car, no friends but maybe money... . the jury is still out on that one... .

Arn

[hybridax]

My ex kept everything in as well.  Everything always seemed "fine." There were times when her insecurities would show through and she would be vocal about things.  Like 2 weeks before she left me for someone else she said, "no one gives a f&*k about me." while we were out bar hopping.  The night I confronted her about her cheating and knowing that she was going to leave me, she said she hated herself.  I asked her why she said that and she immediately said she didn't mean to say that... . bottled up again.

I know EXACTLY how you feel about it being hard to move on because our exes kept so much in.  You can't help but feel sad for them and want to help.  But we can't.  :'(

[Clearmind]

Rage is acted inward yes! Waif's want to be rescued and look for a person who is capable of rescuing - is this a compliment - not really . Their behaviour is shame driven and our (my) behaviour was driven from control (feels safe).

I tried to rescue a waif myself and it didn't work - there are reasons why we are attracted to a helpless person who on the surface act like they can't fend for themselves. They can! Borderlines are resourceful and we are hooked on the care-taker rescuing role.

Both parties got something from the union - one who was helpless and was willing to serve (our ex's) and one who gains value with fixing (me). This need is generally steeped in childhood patterning. The relationship has no boundaries and our values are crossed - its a lonely relationship because we don't get our own needs met. Its OK at first however it does not take long for us (me) to feel resentful.

So my friend, it would be good to figure out what part of you felt the need to rescue this person at the expense of your own values, boundaries and self worth... .

BPD: Understanding the Waif, Hermit, Queen, and Witch

[Tincup]

Clevermind-I agree with you 100%. 

Mine was a waif with some hermit tendencies.  When we were in the middle of the relationship I asked her one time why she picked me and asked me out.  Her answer was that I was "safe".  I didn't understand that much at the time, but it gives me chills now.

She was also one that kept everything bottled up.  Only once raged at me in person (only text or email).  She had a pattern though that I could see, although I would never see the end coming when it did (10 recycles).  It started out great, than she would pull back some while saying nothing was wrong, than passive aggressive behavior, than a final massive text or email rage that I would never see coming.  She would never talk about it after the rage.   

[gettingoverit]

My experience with a BPD Waif:

1.) She will destroy you

2.) She will not take care of herself financially, emotionally, or intellectually.  She   will work out twice a day and three times on Sunday though

3.) She will alienate you from your kids

4.) She will enmesh your kids

5.) She will infantalize your kids

6.) She will talk bad about you in front of your kids

7.) If she did this with your kids, she will certainly do it with anyone else

8.) She will triangulate with your family, friends, and people in the community

9.) She will cheat on you

10.) She will lie to you

11.) She will call the cops on you with false DV charges

12.) She just may be a covert Narcissist

13.) She will verbally abuse you

14.) She will emotionally abuse you

15.) She will physically abuse you, and when you defend yourself, she will call 911

16.) She will assasinate your character and come back 3 weeks later

17.) She will be entitled to everything you worked for

18.) She will need you to take care of her, bc she cannot take care of herself

19.) She will use you and leave when she no longer needs you

20.) She will not be happy until she brings you to your knees

She is a dangerous woman.  There may be noone as dangerous as her.  The waif is a professional victim and noone plays it better.  She will sit on the bleachers at the playground watching her son play baseball.  It doesn't matter he is the best slugger on the team.  One of the only ones to hit multiple HRs at the age of 7 (over the fence).

But it's her partner (the abuser) that makes her so sad for the world to see.  That same partner who she just laughed and joked with on the way to the playground.  Nothing will please her.  No family, no job, no home, no car, no friends but maybe money... . the jury is still out on that one... .

Arn

I couldn't agree more. Very dangerous indeed. They are the ultimate con artist. That is what makes them so dangerous. They have played this game many times and have become pros at it. To say they are dangerous is an understatement.

[CoasterRider]

I think the waif is one of the hardest ones to get over. Those of us who were involved with a waif, dont have the memories of all that crazy, violent, and out of control ways they acted like some pwBPD that we have heard accounts of on here. Like its been said they internalize everything and leave us feeling helpless to fix it. Thus playing even more to our "rescuer" mentality. Quite a deadly combination.

[Tincup]

CR-that is the biggest issue that I have had to deal with myself.  The helpless feeling in dealing with them.  When you ask them what is wrong and they say nothing, yet you look at them and you can see the inner turmoil (to what degree is beyond me).  Yet we never stood a chance.  Many times she would go along fine and than blow up with me in a text and break up over something I did 5 years prior... . just maddening for someone like me who has to figure things out.

[bewildered2]

My experience with a BPD Waif:

1.) She will destroy you

2.) She will not take care of herself financially, emotionally, or intellectually.  She   will work out twice a day and three times on Sunday though

3.) She will alienate you from your kids

4.) She will enmesh your kids

5.) She will infantalize your kids

6.) She will talk bad about you in front of your kids

7.) If she did this with your kids, she will certainly do it with anyone else

8.) She will triangulate with your family, friends, and people in the community

9.) She will cheat on you

10.) She will lie to you

11.) She will call the cops on you with false DV charges

12.) She just may be a covert Narcissist

13.) She will verbally abuse you

14.) She will emotionally abuse you

15.) She will physically abuse you, and when you defend yourself, she will call 911

16.) She will assasinate your character and come back 3 weeks later

17.) She will be entitled to everything you worked for

18.) She will need you to take care of her, bc she cannot take care of herself

19.) She will use you and leave when she no longer needs you

20.) She will not be happy until she brings you to your knees

She is a dangerous woman.  There may be noone as dangerous as her.  The waif is a professional victim and noone plays it better.  She will sit on the bleachers at the playground watching her son play baseball.  It doesn't matter he is the best slugger on the team.  One of the only ones to hit multiple HRs at the age of 7 (over the fence).

But it's her partner (the abuser) that makes her so sad for the world to see.  That same partner who she just laughed and joked with on the way to the playground.  Nothing will please her.  No family, no job, no home, no car, no friends but maybe money... . the jury is still out on that one... .

Arn

I couldn't agree more. Very dangerous indeed. They are the ultimate con artist. That is what makes them so dangerous. They have played this game many times and have become pros at it. To say they are dangerous is an understatement.

Nailed it.

A very very very dangerous person, indeed.

b2

[CoasterRider]

CR-that is the biggest issue that I have had to deal with myself.  The helpless feeling in dealing with them.  When you ask them what is wrong and they say nothing, yet you look at them and you can see the inner turmoil (to what degree is beyond me).  Yet we never stood a chance.  Many times she would go along fine and than blow up with me in a text and break up over something I did 5 years prior... . just maddening for someone like me who has to figure things out.

They deffinately dont "get over" things or let things go. They hold grudges for whatever reason. Probably to help remind themselves how much of the victim they were.  Both times before my ex left me, he would go off for a week to steep and stew in his negative thoughts try to forget all about me in order to work up the courage to break up, than would do it over a text, instead of looking me in the eye and taking responsibility for his choice.

[Pearl55]

Waif= wolf in a sheep skin

[mitchell16]

mine I believe had all the traits. She was the waife when it was to her advantage when she got caught in a lie, or she was back into a corner. a hermit when she wanted pity from people or attention. She would cut of all communication with friends and family, make them worry and call her none stop. queen when she was on her game and when she was with me. The witch was at work,  or when she wanted to rage or she didnt get her way or she percieved I did something wrong. so I found she was all teh above.

[GuiltHaunted]

Mine was a waif too, and 9 months along, I am only starting to get better... .

Still think of her a lot, many times a day - every day. And it's not passing thoughts. I think of her for hours long sometimes, still as confused as day 1.

My description of our relationship here, if it is of interest:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=218818.0

[arn131arn]

Just bought my son a new baseball bat for the upcoming season online for his birthday. It brought back a memory when we were at Academy last year looking and pricing bats. She was her cell online comparing prices but couldn't work it or was having trouble finding the certain bat I wanted for him (size, weight, name brand, etc), but I knew it was on that certain website bc I had seen it while at home one day. She kept fumbling along and I kept asking her to let me help her finding it. She finally said "GO F**K YOURSELF" very loudly in the store. She loved to do that in public and in front of my son. It was embarrassing and I always felt like I was doing something wrong. Who knows she was so secretive with her phone by that time... .

[gettingoverit]

CR-that is the biggest issue that I have had to deal with myself.  The helpless feeling in dealing with them.  When you ask them what is wrong and they say nothing, yet you look at them and you can see the inner turmoil (to what degree is beyond me).  Yet we never stood a chance.  Many times she would go along fine and than blow up with me in a text and break up over something I did 5 years prior... . just maddening for someone like me who has to figure things out.

Wow, that is exactly the hell I lived through.   You know there is something wrong and they act like its your fault. You can never win in that situation. It's like trying to save the titanic, but you don't even know the darn thing is sinking. It completely deflates your ego and crushes your self esteem. Soul killers... . another word for BPD waif.

[Rebuilding me]

CR-that is the biggest issue that I have had to deal with myself.  The helpless feeling in dealing with them.  When you ask them what is wrong and they say nothing, yet you look at them and you can see the inner turmoil (to what degree is beyond me).  Yet we never stood a chance.  Many times she would go along fine and than blow up with me in a text and break up over something I did 5 years prior... . just maddening for someone like me who has to figure things out.

Wow, that is exactly the hell I lived through.   You know there is something wrong and they act like its your fault. You can never win in that situation. It's like trying to save the titanic, but you don't even know the darn thing is sinking. It completely deflates your ego and crushes your self esteem. Soul killers... . another word for BPD waif.

Sums it up nicely! I new something was wrong, she new something was wrong, but there was no discussion but I'm fine! The day after she told me she didn't think I should move in with her, our lease was up and we were moving into a new apartment in ten days, I discussed how she shut down. I asked her when she checked out of the relationship like she discussed with me about her ex husband, I had concerns cause she was recently divorced, she said she checked out six months prior! She said it is different with me because she still loves me! what the heck?

I asked so when did you decide to bu, she said this weekend! what the heck? I than asked what happened and her response was I don't look at her the same anymore and I don't care about her feelings! I said I do, but she just said that's how I feel! Can't argue with that! Granted I was a shell if my former self by than and had begun to question the r/s and withdraw! I said well now we have talked we can work at it, she said too late! what the heck! We had over a year ldr before I moved out of state to be with her! Lived together one year! After I pushes to talk and fix things she just kept repeating I'm sorry! I lost it, all her shut down behavior over the past year got to me and I knew there was no point! I said I got to go now, packed up my belongs right in front of and left on a 1300 mile journey back home! Left our furniture with her and my job at a drop if the hat! I wrote to her about my pain and how I left, talked to her about many things! She never responded and I found out she was on dating sites weeks after bu! It is so hard to believe it all went down like that! Wish I never met her! If I still am not over her and all this crap in 9 months I swear I will commit myself! These three months have been hell! I have no job and live with my parents, I'm looking but it's hard! I walked away from two jobs for that cold woman! Once to move with her and once to return home! I have social anxiety now! Went to the store to buy a book and had to leave because I felt people could tell how broken I am!

[findingmyselfagain]

Sympathy was my hook. I thought all she needed was a little TLC. Boy... . was I in for it. I had nothing but love and compassion for her and her baby daughter. She threw it all away in the midst of a panic attack (projected to be my fault). I never recognized how different her personality could be until after it was over. Sometimes she'd act and sound like an adult, otherwise she sounded as if she was 8 years old. I was attracted to her mostly because she was a lot like my mother and I was comfortable with an uncomfortable relationship. No more rescuing for me. I still feel compassion for her because of just how hurt she is, but I don't feel a need to comfort her or to try to have any kind of friendship with her. It's sad in a way, but over time the sting has mostly gone away. It's one of those things I wonder how long it takes to accept as something that "just happened."

[KE151]

I have been in a r/s with both a queen and a waif type. After the raging queen the waif seemed nice, quid and sweet, in the beginning.

Instead of outwardly raging, she withdrew, was silent, but her anger was obvious. All around her would sense it despite it being under the surface. Her method of coping with her inner pain was silent treatment, getting away from me, and huge amounts of exercise. At the severe end she soothed by manic shopping (changing half of the furniture in her home, new TVs, hot tub etc), getting a pet out of the blue, and what I suspect but cannot be sure, recycling an ex.

Mine was highly intelligent and educated, made tons of money but had zero in her bank account, ever.

She could and would not discuss any negative aspects of herself or our r/s, but she was highly vocal about her friends' and family members' troubles. We were perfect and everyone else was flawed.

She never apologized, or took any responsibility for a mistake.

She lied constantly, mostly white lies but also more significant ones to protect her flawless image and hide her past issues. There were bouts of honesty, but she would suddenly sort of wake up and remind herself of not to act like that   .

My feelings during the r/s went from utter safety and bliss in the beginning (I felt so needed and valued by her), towards despair and near panic at the end when I realized she was in the process of discarding me. The end started when I finally confronted her about her behavior and lying. Even towards the very end she never really raged but was passive aggressive and manipulative, giving hints about my probable replacement's good sides (a recycle of hers as well) vs my flaws. My guilt and shame about the end were huge. My self-confidence was nearly destroyed.

Comparing my detachment from the two ladies: the raging, violent, utterly nutcase queen was so obviously bad for me, I have had no trouble keeping NC and I've seen that r/s for what it was for quite a while already. The scars are there but I'm in the clear. The queen has tried to recycle me many times (email, phone, texts, cyberstalking) but I haven't really had an urge to respond, and I haven't, not once. NC has been good for me in this case. I don't really give a rat's behind about her anymore.

The waif experience left me more exposed that ever before after a b/u, not even my divorce after 15 years was as painful. The devastation of her dropping me from the heavens has been a huge struggle for me. Too many unanswered questions, too many lies, compared to the initial set up of common dreams, warmth, love, affection that I thought we had.

Waif's brother once told me that she has in previous r/s raged towards her partners. And once she herself told me that "if I'd treat you like I've treated the others, you'd leave me". This implies that she has evolved from a queen type towards more of a waif, and that she's now aware of her emotional disability issues (she's been in therapy for 8 years). My guess is she thinks her waif behavior is less damaging to an r/s that the raging, and she is able to choose that over the raging, somehow.

Maybe their behavior changes over time as they go from failure to failure, trying to adapt in their dysfunctional way.