Shame

[HopeEternal]

Hi BPD Family!

I've been gone for a while.  This is the first time I've posted in about 2 years... came back for a little bpdfamily support.

Lately, I’ve been doing a lot of thinking about shame.  Body shame particularly.

Many years ago I got treatment and (by the grace of God) recovered from an eating disorder that I’d suffered for many years.  Through therapy I realized that I’d felt strong disgust toward my body. Lately I’ve been wondering where that sense of disgust came from. I’ve been reading and exploring this concept of ‘shame’…children and shame and where shame comes from.

I think much of the body shame I experienced began early-between ages 7-9.  On two specific occasions I can remember evenings when my parents called me from my bedroom to come into the living room with them.  They were calmly sitting together on the sofa and I was made to stand in front of them-like stand at attention and Dad said they needed to see how I was ‘growing’…I had to alternately pull my shirt up and then pull down my underwear down as they both stared at me.  Like an inspection.  I guess looking for signs of puberty. I don’t know! I remember crying silently, fat tears rolling down my face, looking at my BPD mom silently begging, pleading with her to ‘do something.’ ‘Save me Mommy.’ She just stared at me.  The woman just stared like she didn’t see me.  Like looking through me.  Like I didn’t matter.  It was probably a  few minutes but it felt like an eternity… a lifetime standing there in front of them. Torture. Then I was told I could get dressed and I go back to my room.  

Dismissed.

I felt confused and vulnerable and violated because after all- they’d taught me that my privates were ‘private’…Right?  

This happened at least twice that I can remember.  Today, as memories get clearer about that time in my life and the home environment I have a nagging suspicion that on those evening they may both very well have smoking weed together and been high.  

Yes, I have addressed these events in therapy and rarely thought about these events until recently.

Years ago, I even had the drive and courage and to ask BPDmom about it.   She told me she didn’t remember what I was talking about. (What the heck? Sigh) And years ago before my father passed I also addressed it with him…asked him why he did that-and I was not prepared for his response. THE. MAN. BROKE.DOWN. in front of me---like the witch in the Wizard of Oz-he just melted into a withering ball of man and tears-on the floor. He’d just finished an alcoholism rehab program-I think it encouraged him to open up about his emotions and I think that’s the only reason he opened up when I asked him about it.  Told me that it had happened to him too.  The 6’1  man I’d always viewed as being almost superhuman-suddenly crying, balled up like a 4 year old before me. I’d never seen him vulnerable much less-a mess. Talk about irony; I didn’t even have a chance to display any righteous indignation... . I actually felt bad FOR HIM.  I dropped the subject after that…there was nothing else to say.  It was so obvious that he was worse off than I was.

I only recounted that story as an example of how I believe I ‘contracted’ some of my shame.  Unfortunately, I have other shaming examples from childhood.  I suffered a lot of shame but somehow, despite it I became a successful adult. I contribute to society and feel good about myself most of the time.  But I'm also trying to connect the dots to learn and  understand how shame/shaming affects my life and how to overcome it.

Can anyone else speak to this concept of shame?  How has it affected your adulthood? Do you  think it can be overcome?

[Tolou]

Feelings of shame are hard to overcome but I believe it begins by understanding them, where they come from and how we let effect us in adulthood.  What happened when you were younger, definitely hard to understand why but it happened and it is not your fault.  I can't imagine how that made you feel, sorry to hear that. I am happhy that you were able to find success in life and continue to look for more understanding yourself, it will help you grow.

Shame I think comes from our childhood and the things were taught from an early age, it has feelings of guilt in it and how we perceive ourselves.  Most of the insecurities people have I believe development in the early realtionships and environments.  It takes time to overcome the damage that some of us have experienced.  But we need to unlearn than relearn ourselves.  Accepting ourselves for who we are, what we weve been through and what we look like.  Our bodies, our appearance we see so much in social media that tires to portray we should look like this or like that, but the truth is, we are all different.  If everyone looked the same, their would be no variety in life.  I'm hoping I have given you some food for thought and wish you wel...

"Perfectionism is a self destructive and addictive belief system that fuels this primary thought: If I look perfect, and do everything perfectly, I can avoid or minimize the painful feelings of shame, judgment, and blame.”

― Brené Brown, The Gifts of Imperfection: Let Go of Who You Think You're Supposed to Be and Embrace Who You Are

tags: blame, judgment, perfectionism, shame.

[HopeEternal]

Thx you Tolou... . I agree with everything you've said here. That book by Brene Brown is right on point about shame and its affects. I'm reading it now.

I'm also struggling to reach the next level in my professional life but I've hit a roadblock; I can't seem to get past it to really achieve and soar in my profession- and its very frustrating. After some deep introspection I think shame is at the core of my roadblock.  I also think it may very well be the core reason why I have experienced few love relationships-its at the core of my fear of them.  After many years of therapy I think this shame issue is the last bastion for me in moving on and really soaring and finally feeling free in my life.  Shame makes you feel weighed down, debilitated... almost frozen.

One other thing too... when I look back on my life because I've been able to accomplish many personal and professional goals (with much effort I'll add!) I'm sometimes tempted to think that maybe living with a BPD parent, and ALL the other dysfunctional family issues I faced really weren't that bad after all.  After all, I have made something wonderful of myself.   And WHO

succeeds under THOSE circumstances? Who DOES that? Confusing?   :'(

Thx.

[seeking balance]

Have you read any of Brene' Brown's work?  She is an expert in shame and vulnerability.  Everyone feels shame sometimes, me too!  Good for you reaching out.

Here is a talk she did on Oprah specific to shame.

www.oprah.com/oprahs-lifeclass/Brene-Brown-on-the-3-Things-You-Can-Do-to-Stop-a-Shame-Spiral-Video

I cannot recommend her enough for this particular topic.

Peace,

SB

[HopeEternal]

SB:  Thanks so much for sharing this video.  Very helpful! 

[fromheeltoheal]

I learned recently there's a difference between guilt and shame: guilt says I did something bad, shame says I am bad.  Up to then I had thought guilt and shame were the same thing.  So digging, I've also discovered that a large part of my motivation to succeed when I was younger was to compensate for those shameful feelings, create a facade of OK-ness to cover the underlying feelings of less-than.  I know I'm not the only one on the planet who does that, and as Brene says, the solution is to love yourself and share your 'secret' with people you trust.  As I practice that, as I settle into myself, the trappings of success become what I do, not who I am.

[Surnia]

Hi HopeEternal

What a courageous post - speaking about shame is so difficult and you made a great step!

I think its also very brave to ask both of your parents about this horrible situation in your childhood. 

I was very struck reading about your fathers reaction. And its so tragic, when things like this find repetition over generations.  :'(

As others said: Brene Browns work is so great regarding shame. I had so many shame myself, especially as a teenager and later, I never really understood. Only reading her books I finally start to understand and I feel much better now with myself. 

[HopeEternal]

Hi Surnia!

Thanks for your reply.  It was really healing for me.

I was prompted start this thread is because I’m a musician and I’m having trouble singing in front of audiences. I don’t think the problem is “stage fright” per se, I’ve performed regularly in the past and had my own weekly show last year.  Rather, I suspect it’s related to ‘shame.’

For example: I have an opportunity to sit in with a local band at their weekly venue.  My dream is to perform the style they play but I have little experience with it. Sitting in the best way to learn, practice and meet other musicians. I've been to the venue. I've watched, listened. Hung back from the 'sidelines' but couldn’t actually get up and DO it. This has happened before. Once last year I went to a hear a band with a veteran musician friend.  I’d been invited to sit in by one of the band members.   I sat through the whole first set paralyzed and finding reasons not to go up and sing.  Second set I finally went up and sang with the band. I was terrified and frustrated because I’m good but I was so uncomfortable.  It sucked.  Afterward, back my table my friend asked, ‘When you sing in front of people, do you feel exposed?’

Exposed. That word seemed to fit but I didn’t understand how it worked inside me, emotionally. Spiritually.

I thought about his question for a year.  

I wondered, What could I possibly be afraid of exposing?  And then another musician friend encouraged me to ‘dig deep’- …discover why I’m fearful.

And then, last week my BPDmother called, and acted a BPD fool and so now we are back on the tired ‘NC-here.we.go.Again’.  Yawn.     I needed some solace, so I came back to this site, read some old posts and stumbled on one that referenced one of Brene Brown’s books. I started reading it and then some stuff on the Internet about children raised in ‘shaming families.' So I wondered if there could be a connection between ‘shame’ and my friend’s question about exposure. I'm outgoing a lot of the time BUT- I don’t often speak up at meetings, in large groups, social settings etc and sometimes don’t have the courage to get in front of an audience and I think shame is the root. Maybe, I feel exposed.  

I believe I grew up in a 'shaming' family.  Both my parents were shamed and had controlling parents.  I already gave a painful example of literally being ‘exposed’ as a child.  Unfortunatley, I experienced shaming both at home AND school.

I experienced shame in the following ways.  (Not an exhaustive list :'():

•   Brutal teasing at home, by parents- Throughout grade school I hoarded snacks in my bedroom and overate (prob. to soothe myself) so I was overweight.  Parents teased and called me ‘fat’ and BPDmom sometimes called me ‘human garbage can.’ Sometimes she encouraged my younger brother to join her.

•   Told I was going to be adopted:  Once my parents drove me to a random building, parked, teased me, told me it was an orphange, I was gonna have to leave the car and go there, that they didn’t want me and they were gonna leave me there.  I was so grateful when they let me stay in the car and drove back home I didn’t know what to do. I’m sure I was under 10, probably waaaay younger. ;(

•   Relentless teasing throughout elementary school:  BPDmom thought it was so cute to let my little brother suck on my cheeks giving me dark purple hickeys that I would have to explain about at school when classmates would laugh and ask ‘WHO gave you that?…’And id cheerfully say…’My little brother!’ I never understood the perplexed looks I got in response! It made sense to me!   Like I said, I hoarded snacks in my bedroom to soothe myself so I was overweight and my mom dressed me weird sometimes.  A few times, in third or fourth grade she thought it would be so cute if I wore the new Wendy’s logo T-shirt to school.  It was  BRIGHT yellow with black print so she sent me on the schoolbus in a T-shirt with ‘HOT AND JUICY’ written across the front of it.   I took a ridicule beating that day from kids and even the teachers looked at me puzzled/perplexed.  :'( I was also always the last kid picked for kickball…kinda that ‘cooty kid’ nobody wants to be with.  I was excluded a lot when other kids were having fun.

I read somewhere that shame is a feeling of being 'Not fit to belong in one's community'.  That resonates with how I felt at that time.  :'(

•   Humiliation by a alcoholic dad: In 4th grade I’d started learning to play violin.  Once, Dad and a distant uncle were having drinks in the living room and summoned me to play for them. Drunk Dad wanted to show off the daughter who played violin! I stood at attention and played something simple like‘Twinkle Twinkle Little Star’. If I goofed I hear the clink of ice against the tumbler, he’d take a sip and say. ‘Nope. do it again.’ So I’d start and goof. Nervous.  ‘Nope, nope made a mistake there.’  And I’d start over.  Etc.  I got frustrated and wanted to cry.  I was TRYING.  Even drunk distant uncle looked embarrassed. He knew this was wrong.  I saw it in his face. But he didn’t do anything about it.   I just kept on playing trying to make people happy and satisfied show that I was good enough.  Aw, if I could just ‘get it right’…... :'(

•   Adolescent onset of an eating disorder.  

•   Etc………

Thing is, I thought all of the above was my fault and I believed I was deserving.  Why else would such things happen if I wasn’t deserving of it? I must deserve it.  UBPDmom has facial discoloration, suffered merciless teasing and low (no?)self esteem. Maybe some of her fleas jumped onto me  as I was also convinced that I must be somehow ugly or disgusting inside or undeserving or why else would people treat me this way? 'I must be 'not fit to belong'... . or I would be belonging. Right?And that effects my sense of worth.  Worth and belonging.  The sense  that u don't have to hang back... . the sense of being deserving of good things in life and of having an inherent right to them.

Life is not supposed to suck.

[Surnia]

Oh, HopeEternal,

what a difficult childhood! How humiliating and beyond boundaries. 

I am in tears reading your lines.

As a child you should be exposed in a positive and caring way. For example through something you did and you got fully attention and being applauded. Screenplaying, showing a drawing, sports, whatever. Each child has talents and the right to show it and getting validation for it.

I read somewhere that shame is a feeling of being 'Not fit to belong in one's community

It took me very long to understand it. For a longtime my thoughts about shame got in direction: Too restrictive education regarding my body and sexuality (which is valid for my childhood). And I thought if I would change my mind about this, I could live shame-free. Wrong idea.

Now I realize its far more than this. Its the fear not belonging to a community. This can always kick in. I cannot avoid shame. I can learn however to deal with it.

Back to you, HopeEternal. 

No, life is not supposed to suck.

Sharing the shame stories is so brave.

If I were near you, I would ask you if you would sing a song right now - just as long as you feel right about it.

[HopeEternal]

Surnia:

Thank you for your response.

It was very validating for me.   

[Tolou]

Hope... .

I think the fact that you have been successful through all that you have experienced with the dysfunction says a lot about you and your ability to thrive and make the best of the things.  Hope fully with all the good insight that people have been providing you with and that of your own you will unlock those final stages or feeling of shame and truley have some liberation.  I wihs you the best with that.

[Tayto]

Stand naked on front of your mirror in your bedroom, and write ten things beautiful about your body.

you have to write ten.

read them aloud in your mind as you examine your body.

[Tayto]

I read once that if you Stand naked on front of your mirror in your bedroom, and write ten things beautiful about your body.

you have to write ten.

read them aloud in your mind as you examine your body.

[HopeEternal]

Hope fully with all the good insight that people have been providing you with and that of your own you will unlock those final stages or feeling of shame and truley have some liberation.

Thank you Tolou.

That pretty much sums up how I feel too!

And... . I feel that I am close... . so close to getting to the point where I dont have to keep  revisiting these old memories... . even though the time in between is ofen years now... . where I can just move forward in life, soar... . and feel good and not carry a psychic weight that must be shame.

Thanks again.

[HopeEternal]

I read once that if you Stand naked on front of your mirror in your bedroom, and write ten things beautiful about your body.

you have to write ten.

read them aloud in your mind as you examine your body.

Hi Tayto!

Thanks so much for this suggestion!

I did a lot of exercises like this back in the day when I first got help for an ED.  And fast forward many years, now I actually feel pretty good about myself and don't experience as much body shame.  And when I do I am able to  recognize it as such.

Returing to this site after few years away, posting and reading authors like Brene Brown and others is helpful as I try to uncover and recover from, what I hope is, the last debris of shame.  I’m so happy to know this feeling, this experience has a name-Shame. I never recognized as such before.  For example, I never understood why I developed an ED as a teen and struggled with it til my early 20’s.  I simply thought it I was defective and that I deserved such a problem; therefore, I was worthy of it.   Now I recognize this as shame; in my case, other people's shame projected onto me, and I was taught to absorb it.

This shame has been a heavy internal weight, that’ the best way I can articulate it. And without knowing exactly what I was praying for, without identifying it as  ‘shame’ I have, my whole, life silently prayed that I God would let me be ‘free.’

I feel very close to finally being able to achieve some long term personal/professional goals I’ve spent years striving for.  Honestly, I feel a little resentful that when I feel so close, I hit this psychological roadblock and I’m having to stop,  go back into ‘introspection mode’, unearth and dust off these old memories I’d faced and thought I’d worked through long ago…in an attempt to uncover the root of all this shame I’ve carried.   When I want to move forward, intermittently in my life I've had to go back and forth, from present to past, to revisit and conjure up ghosts I thought I’d said goodbye to. 

I’m only relentless about it because I know I can have the career I want and the husband/family I dream of if I can be brave and face it.  And because all other goals I’ve set for myself in the past, I’ve accomplished.  I’m so proud of that! That despite the stuff I’ve shared here I’ve lived l my life without any regrets. I went after everything I wanted and even if it was hard or didn't work out as I planned, at least  I tried. That’s outstanding!   Success for me means living an authentic, meaningful life-and, as increasingly as I get older it also means making a positive contribution in the lives of others.  This is what I strive for.  I  attribute any success I’ve had to intermittent therapy over the years, an excellent T, my spirituality and being blessed to cross paths with many caring and compassionate mentors, ie high school and college counselors who mentored me,  and compassionate friends and even one compassionate lover who helped me see myself better.  Leaving my UBPDmom’s house to go  to college in another town at age 18 was also my saving grace.  I think that’s the only reason I didn’t become a BPD adult.  I was probably on my way. (?)   Attending college far from home is what put a stop to my continued daily exposure to that energy.

Shame: I realize now that shame runs deep in my family tree-And up until now I could never articulate it as such. So I guess that’s a breakthrough?    I come from an FOO that I would describe as-on one side mostly, ‘unrealistic expectation having-high/over achieving-alcoholic' types with a sprinkle of substance abusers.  This side was shaming and I was brainwashed to think that my value was in being a ‘high-achiever’, excellent in school and to be professionally ‘successful’ adult.  Those ideals are where I placed my value and self-worth and my I suffered shaky and blurred sense of self worth.  

The other side is a UBPDmom, Bipolar Disorder brother and either UBPD/UBP grama.  There were many secrets on my mom’s side-generational.  I even suspect  that  grama may be BPD or Bipolar; she has suffered feelings off unworthiness for years which would come out in the occasional rages and fits of violence that I witnessed as a youth during summer vacation visits to her home.   UBPD/UBP grama  was raped at 16 and got pregnant and had my UBPDmom. (A ‘secret’ she shared with me when I was in college,-but one my mother suspects this anyway (!) UBPD/UBP grama dropped out of school in the 7th grade so she could work.  As a child my UBPDmom was raised by her grandmother and was later sent to away to live with her aunt, grama’s older sister.  As a child my UBPDmom was raised believing that her grandmother was her mother and that her biological mother was her sister.  I once sneaked a look at UBPDmom’s old diaries; she wrote that as child after going to live with her then-married mother she used to sometimes hear UBPD/UBP grama  in the house cheating with different men when her then-husband was away serving in the military.  It could be a stretch--but I often wonder if maybe UBPD/UBP grama  was perhaps prostituting herself (?)  I don’t know.  But once when I was in college UBPD/UBP grama  and I had a conversation about sex/dating (probably inappropriate) and she jokingly told me ‘If you’re gonna do it-you may as well get paid for it.’    As adults, both women became deeply involved and respected in the church, very pious, and you would never know that any of this was in their past.  

I do feel bad for my mom and how she was raised.  But she has left me with so much shame-baggage of my own that I cant afford to spend time feeling sorry for what happened with her mom/family.  I've got my own to work through.

[Tayto]

j hear ya, I,m much of the same, I was told daily that I was useless and I would never be anything, my mother told me I was a monster and I would only destroy any woman I ever met.

like you I over achieved to a point that I called my materials objects, my tower of bulls... t.

I taught myself to detatch from objects and not to be placed to anything,i,m just me.

I,m not a painter,husband,father as I found out the hard way when you attach yourself to something, it can destroy you.

I remember standing outside my garage one day and saying to my dead father

now are you happy, I own two houses new jeep,my own business and I,m the best spraypainter I know.

then it hit me like a ton of bricks, I had done everything to prove I was not useless.

a month later I tried to end my life and I only went back spray painting last year after four years.

so now I don't attach myself to anything.

[HopeEternal]

Hi All!  

I have been doing a lot of reading and podcast listening on the topic of shame. I'd like to post links to 2 podcasts that I have found to be very helpful on this topic in the hopes that it will help someone else who is struggling through it.

1.  This podcast is excellent.  In it, therapist Rhona Clews gives solutions and suggestions for dissolving the shame in your life. Very insightful!

www.tappingqanda.com/2012/03/pod-77-understanding-and-tapping-for-shame-w-rhona-clews/

2.In this one Dr. Brene Brown defines shame very well.

www.smartpeoplepodcast.com/2012/01/15/episode-45-brene-brown/

I hope this helps someone else! -Hope