How long?

[Moonie75]

I've read quite a few threads on the boards asking why we ignored the red flags, why didn't we see them etc... .

I was just wondering this morning... . Regardless of red flags seen or not seen, how long was it before I realized my relationship was not a healthy one?

And how long did it take me to start seeing my ex was a liar & not trustworthy?

For me personally, the first year LDR dynamics didn't show me any signs of lying or abusing trust (at the time, I know different now). But after my move to be with her, the problems started coming thick & fast. About 1 month before I suspected she lied a lot, and about another month after that, that I started to have problems trusting her. (due in no small part to her shameless flirting & seductive withholder behavior around other men).

I am now looking at why I continued so so so long after these suspicions arose!



So for you, How long did it take to realize your relationship was not in healthy shape, dynamically healthy, or healthy for you?

[Ceide]

How long did it take me?  We were together for about a year and he started acting bizarre, raging at me and then not speaking to me for days over imagined slights.  It quickly escalated into him announcing he was leaving, that things "had changed for him" and he was "sorry he had issues" (said in a too bad/so sad tone of voice).  It all started after he found out his stbxw had won a lawsuit and had come into some money.  He was afraid of what she and her family were going to do to him now.  (They dragged him in to court several times, sued him over past Christmas gifts they had given him, etc.) 

He was gone before I could really process any of it.  I was definitely shattered, stunned, etc.  Looking back, I can see red flags from the very beginning, but he stayed in the mirroring part of the r/s for almost a year, and then *poof* he was gone.  One of the red flags was he always told me if I cheated on him, I "would never see or hear from him again, *POOF* he would be gone!"  GOD I wish that were true!    Not that I have ever cheated on anyone, ever, just wish he would stay out of my life.  He's come around several times after the break-up, which was almost 3 years ago.  Just heard from him about 2 weeks ago.  Ugh.  NC for me!

[phantom17]

just a few weeks for the first that I ignored... . progressively got worse, but they were so subtle, I didn't know what was happening. From about the 6 month mark until year 3 I was constantly confused and resentful.

The one time I put my foot down to break up permanently, she turned into a bat sh.t crazy psycho stalker woman... . fortunately, she thought I was out of town, but the moment she realized I was actually back in town, here she came rushing into the driveway... . minutes prior to her arrival, my ex called me to say the BPDgf (now ex) had messaged her through fb asking if we were seeing each other... . What the heck?

... . after I blew my top, she agreed to get help, which never happened.

Why we stick around is a mystery, but we can find the answer within ourselves. For me, I think it was lack of set boundaries, because I didn't know I needed them.

[santa]

I realized my ex is crazier than a sh!t house rat about a week into our relationship. I don't know why I stayed with her after that. I guess I just ignored it because she was entertaining.

[Moonie75]

Just a few weeks for the first that I ignored... . progressively got worse, but they were so subtle, I didn't know what was happening. From about the 6 month mark until year 3 I was constantly confused and resentful.

Phantom,

You saying that although there's been a few flags, it was six months mark when you accepted the relationship wasn't a healthy one?

Then you stayed a further two & a half years anyway?

That's my point I think. I've read the posts about ignoring the red flags. I was more wondering why we ignore that moment where we realize 'this is not healthy' and keep going anyways!

Like you, I continued to the three year marker, after realizing it 'wasn't right' within months!

[Murbay]

Started communicating in August, met for first time in October, engaged in October, realised something wasn't right and called it off in November, reconcilled in December, she was pregnant in January, married in April. Divorced 2 years later.

For me, I should have trusted my gut in November but I lacked the strength. Initially went NC but emotional blackmail, guilt trips and the fact she travelled 3000 miles and turned up on the doorstep. I caved and despite protection on both sides, she still ended up pregnant. She also found it funny because that had happened twice to her 

The pregnancy was enough for me to try and make it work, even gave up everything to move to her country but what I saw in the November was magnified and it was a marriage fuelled by hate. To her, I had abandoned her once so got full force of nastiness. Stayed for the children.

exBPDgf, it took 2 months before the rages and push/pull cycle presented itself and 3 months before it was in full flow. She told me a month in that she was diagnosed with BPD. Put up with the rages and withdrawal because she was on medication and desperately wanted to seek help, took the steps herself to do that. 6 months, she ran off with replacement.

[Moonie75]

Murbay,

Your reply resonates deeply with me!

Without doubt the most hate filled venomous rage I ever witnessed was the night she viciously ended the relationship for the first time! During that rage she yelled a list of things about me that she hated & resented. One of them was that I hadn't got her pregnant! She actually told me that she'd stopped taking her pill & thought if she got pregnant by me I'd never leave!

I was not aware that we had been trying for a baby & throughout her rage I had kept my cool until she hit me with the pregnant topic. I was furious & totally blew my stack!

The thought of someone aiming to trap me into a relationship by parenthood, well, it was utterly sickening!

She later claimed she'd only said that to hurt me because she knew I'd long wanted to be a father. (my previous partner couldn't have children).

If it was said to hurt, that's sick!

If it was true, that's sick!

I'm not saying you ex did this to you. But the rapid transition from getting together, to pregnancy, is something I imagine is not unusual with pwBPD!

[Octoberfest]

Murbay,

Your reply resonates deeply with me!

Without doubt the most hate filled venomous rage I ever witnessed was the night she viciously ended the relationship for the first time! During that rage she yelled a list of things about me that she hated & resented. One of them was that I hadn't got her pregnant! She actually told me that she'd stopped taking her pill & thought if she got pregnant by me I'd never leave!

I was not aware that we had been trying for a baby & throughout her rage I had kept my cool until she hit me with the pregnant topic. I was furious & totally blew my stack!

The thought of someone aiming to trap me into a relationship by parenthood, well, it was utterly sickening!

She later claimed she'd only said that to hurt me because she knew I'd long wanted to be a father. (my previous partner couldn't have children).

If it was said to hurt, that's sick!

If it was true, that's sick!

I'm not saying you ex did this to you. But the rapid transition from getting together, to pregnancy, is something I imagine is not unusual with pwBPD!

It pains me to read this Moonie.  It ranks up there amongst my greatest fears.

My BPDex got pregnant at 19 with her then husband.  She later had an abortion after she left him; because she came home and caught him in bed with another woman (I highly doubt this is true).  I asked her if she got pregnant intentionally, why at 19, etc.  Her reply? "I had a ring on my finger, it seemed like time to start a family".  Things that SHOULD be HUGE decisions, thought out, planned, major, massive decisions seem to happen on a whim for many pwBPD, especially in the way of relationships/marriages/kids.  My BPDex turned 23 a few days ago- in addition to the ex-husband, she has been engaged a few other times as well.  All within a few months of meeting the guys.  It makes me sit here and scratch my head, as well as mourn, because for all that I DON'T know, I DO know that those sorts of arrangements are not recipes for success or happiness and that she will only find further trouble along those paths.

[Murbay]

Moonie,

Having read some of your previous posts and the step backwards when you have done so well in moving forward. Let me share something my T drilled in to me. It's ok to miss the good times but if you find them coming back for a recycle, remember the times like the one you talked bout below and how that made you feel. Do you really want or need that person in your life?

I totally feel for you mate because what your ex said to you is deeply unfair and there is nothing that can ever justify what. She took something that was a dream/value/goal to you and used it to hurt you. A true sign of a disordered individual.

Wouldn't your dream of being a father be better placed with a woman who is as deserving of you as you are of her and who will share those happy memories with you?  

As for mine, it opened up a lot of questions. Her ex walked as soon as he found out she was pregnant, went NC 9 years ago and has never been back in touch. I only ever had her word for why he left, but if he already knew what took me 2 years to learn, then fair play to him.

I've asked myself if it was to trap me. It takes 2 to tango. Pill, coil and condoms (supplied by her) and she still gets pregnant? Accidents do happen, but again, twice?

I also wondered if ex A was used because she wanted a child of her own and I was there to give first child a brother or sister. She had said to me that her D had asked for a brother or sister for christmas because they were bored of being the only child. Again, it came from her so can't read too much into it but it did make me question.

[dreamofpeace]

I just posted a bit about this... . how I am questioning why I stayed as long as I did. I saw red flags really quickly. The biggest one was only 2 weeks after I met him. Then I gave him the benefit of the doubt. It's embarrassing his lies that I believed. He was planning to move far across the country 5 weeks later, so I thought, we'll be friends, no big deal. He'll move and that will be it. I waited it out. He drove all the way to his new future job/home. Got there, said he missed me and my kids too much and he drove straight back. I had no idea he was doing this. I was sitting in my backyard and he walked up  - I was like - holy crap! Now what... . so I thought I guess I'll give this a try and of course I felt guilt if I didn't. Shaking my head. Many times over the months he has gotten angry and it's always about me cheating (which I never even spoke to another man out of fear) and I would think it's over and he would would find me somewhere (a bookstore, etc.) and proclaim his true love, etc. and I'd fall back in. He was only raging and verbally abusive at times. But by 7 months in, used a knife to threaten hurting himself if I didn't do what he wanted. Then it led to physical aggression. Following the pattern. As soon as I felt his grip on my neck I knew - that 's it. Never again. I watched/heard my father abuse my mother and I will never do that to myself. It was a relief in a way... . but sad too. I'm in my 40's and have been blessed to never have a partner do that to me till this one. So by 9 months, I am done. No more. I'm scared of what he will do and the police are actually keeping an eye on my house, because I chose to call 911 when he wouldn't stop pounding on my front door, but I can't ever give in to him again.

About the pregnancy thing, he wanted me to have his baby soo bad. I'm like - listen, I'm in my 40's, have my kids already, have significant health issues, and you want me to have a baby? Oh and he didn't have a job, owes back taxes, has nothing saved, is in all kind of debt. and I'm supposed to have a baby with him? Craziness! At first I had to pretty much beg him to wear a condom. That is one of the best things about ending things with him. I do not have to worry about the pressures of that... . I couldn't not handle getting pregnant for sure. It is such a trap. The way they want to hold on to a person. It is truly scary. oh, and he took it so personally that I didn't want to have a baby with him even after only knowing him a month. Still shaking my head... .

It is good to read others' experiences with this... . I 'm really mad at myself for not having ended things much earlier. I feel a lot of guilt for bringing him around my kids. That will be a big thing for me to work on.

Thanks for bringing this up Moonie.

[arn131arn]

I've read quite a few threads on the boards asking why we ignored the red flags, why didn't we see them etc... .

I was just wondering this morning... . Regardless of red flags seen or not seen, how long was it before I realized my relationship was not a healthy one?

And how long did it take me to start seeing my ex was a liar & not trustworthy?

For me personally, the first year LDR dynamics didn't show me any signs of lying or abusing trust (at the time, I know different now). But after my move to be with her, the problems started coming thick & fast. About 1 month before I suspected she lied a lot, and about another month after that, that I started to have problems trusting her. (due in no small part to her shameless flirting & seductive withholder behavior around other men).

I am now looking at why I continued so so so long after these suspicions arose!



So for you, How long did it take to realize your relationship was not in healthy shape, dynamically healthy, or healthy for you?

Moon, I've been avoiding this topic because when I first read it, I couldn't wouldn't let myself be honest about it.

I have been questioning lately if I, myself, actually loved my ex.  Or if I needed her, as much as she needed me.

Something my P left me with Friday afternoon.  Pr**k, it's the uncomfotable questions, that make you squirm, those questions that make you feel funny in your stomach, it's THOSE questions, Moon, where growth occurs.

So, if I truly loved her, then I would have sacrificed my life for her, but I did do that and it wasn't enough... . I would ignore any and all red flags.  I will not surrender.

If I needed her as much as she needed me, well, then, My happiness was not that important to me and I may well deserve the heartache I experienced the past 2 months.

At some point, I have to look at my part in this dance... . That's when I grow.

[Moonie75]

I think I'm realizing, 2/3 months after moving here I acknowledged to myself that this was not a healthy relationship. I knew it but something stopped me from accepting it. I continued in the toxic dance for a further 2.5 years!

Selfish reasons!

1: It was my first relationship after my wife had walked out & hooked up with a guy wealthier, much wealthier, than me. My EGO was dented & self worth was almost none existent.

2: I had left friends & family back home & relocated to enjoy the romance of the century, that I so much deserved after what my wife did. In the run up to leaving my own manor & moving here, I was so happy to be telling anyone who'd listen how much I was looking forward to my new life in the south, with my soul mate. I was living a fairy tale & wanted people to know I was going to be just fine, after what they saw my wife do. Again, EGO!

3: Accepting I was wrong & going home would make me feel like a chump. Yet again, EGO!

4: I thought I could fix this & make it work. Deep down knew it takes two & only one of us was rowing their side of the boat. We were going round in circles! I knew this but didn't want to accept this relationship was doomed to fail. Here we are again, EGO!

So basically... . I was intelligent enough to see/feel quite quickly after moving, that this was not a healthy relationship, stable relationship, or mutually equal relationship. It certainly wasn't showing any signs of having a bright future!

But my bloody EGO was so important to me, that despite knowing fairly quickly I should be gone, I stayed, determined to make it out fine. I stayed for another 2.5 years! Even, get this, even when she devalued & discarded me Twice during that time & i knew better than to be with her, I went back because of my EGO & wanting to prove something to myself!

I need to go figure out why I have such difficulty accepting what I know is truth as soon as I realize it. Instead of denying to myself what I know is the truth!

[arn131arn]

I think I'm realizing, 2/3 months after moving here I acknowledged to myself that this was not a healthy relationship. I knew it but something stopped me from accepting it. I continued in the toxic dance for a further 2.5 years!

Selfish reasons!

1: It was my first relationship after my wife had walked out & hooked up with a guy wealthier, much wealthier, than me. My EGO was dented & self worth was almost none existent.

2: I had left friends & family back home & relocated to enjoy the romance of the century, that I so much deserved after what my wife did. In the run up to leaving my own manor & moving here, I was so happy to be telling anyone who'd listen how much I was looking forward to my new life in the south, with my soul mate. I was living a fairy tale & wanted people to know I was going to be just fine, after what they saw my wife do. Again, EGO!

3: Accepting I was wrong & going home would make me feel like a chump. Yet again, EGO!

4: I thought I could fix this & make it work. Deep down knew it takes two & only one of us was rowing their side of the boat. We were going round in circles! I knew this but didn't want to accept this relationship was doomed to fail. Here we are again, EGO!

So basically... . I was intelligent enough to see/feel quite quickly after moving, that this was not a healthy relationship, stable relationship, or mutually equal relationship. It certainly wasn't showing any signs of having a bright future!

But my bloody EGO was so important to me, that despite knowing fairly quickly I should be gone, I stayed, determined to make it out fine. I stayed for another 2.5 years! Even, get this, even when she devalued & discarded me Twice during that time & i knew better than to be with her, I went back because of my EGO & wanting to prove something to myself!

I need to go figure out why I have such difficulty accepting what I know is truth as soon as I realize it. Instead of denying to myself what I know is the truth!

Now that's honesty, bra

[ConverseHome]

This is precisely the question that I am wrestling with. I saw the red flags with my stbxBPDgf within the first three months. She was still in a relationship with her spouse of ten years at the time. Within a week of telling me how attracted she was to me, she said she loved me, that I was her "soul-mate." I was going through a divorce from a someone you might call a straight-up bully, and I was so desperate to be loved. I thought God had answered my prayers. So, in no particular order, why didn't I see the first red flag, and the second, third, fourth... . there were so many I am ashamed to even count them all. Well, you ask the question of why? Here's how I see myself:

1. At first I doubted my own reality. I would say to myself things like, "this can't be," because no one lies like this. No one tells you two days before the closing of your new home together that they are $100K short, and that you are going to have to make up the difference. What did I do? I assumed her best intentions, that she really didn't understand the finances. I paid the $100K. In reality, I was in denial. I was a chump.

2. I truly believed what she was telling me. That the problem was me, and that I needed to be fixed. I jumped through every hoop she put in front of me. I was exhausted from emotional fatigue, and yet, I still kept believing it must be me. If I just try harder. Why? IMO because I didn't love myself enough; because I thought she was the emotional guru she said she was. She was the the shrink to my alleged pathology, and I believed her.

3. My own childhood of desperately wanting to please my parents, and never being able to do so. No accomplishment was enough to satisfy them, so I just get racking them up. I could have won the Nobel Prize and I still wouldn't have satisfied them. Rather than being satisfied with myself, I wanted their approval and love, so I just kept trying harder. Of course, today that makes me successful in my profession, but it also makes me a sitting duck for someone as emotionally abusive as my stbxBPDgf.

4. Our relationship ended for good (I hope) a week ago. Why? This time it's because I am remorseless and don't see her and how much pain I cause her. This is after she went on a drunken rage on Xmas eve, crossing the line and raging in my face, physically shaking me. Still, chump that I am, I apologized profusely for whatever I did to set her off; still no apology will ever be enough for her, or heartfelt enough. That, I could take to the bank. I have realized over the last few months that I could cut off my right arm to prove my remorsefulness for every perceived flaw of mine, or ways I have hurt her, and it would still not be enough. It was only with this episode that I realized she was even trying to control and tell me how to express my own pain and remorse. Somehow the lightbulb began to go off in my pathetic brain.

5. I have been a willing accomplice to her pathology. I have allowed her to define me; I have allowed her to define my reality; she even had me convinced of her lies and distortions. For these reasons, I ignored the red flags. And it's for these reasons that I have to understand WHY I would allow someone to do this to me. I'm at a place now that I realize how low my own feelings of self-worth were when I met her, and how I was perfectly willing to ignore all of my own needs and her red flags in order to gain the love and approval from her that I could never seem to get in my own childhood.

It doesn't make it any easier. I am still consumed with self-doubt, beating myself up, and wondering, what if I had just tried harder, or even worse, what if she's right? The wacky thing is, she is convinced that I am the one with a mental illness (BPD) in fact. Her ability to split and project are stunning. The moment I realized I couldn't fix this, that I was out of my league emotionally as she would have a distorted answer/lie for everything, was the moment I was able to begin the journey towards healing and to really looking at myself. This has been as painful as living with her, though at least I can see hope at the end of the tunnel instead of her freight train.

[growing_wings]

So for you, How long did it take to realize your relationship was not in healthy shape, dynamically healthy, or healthy for you?

good question Moonie, thanks for bringing this up.

For me, i realized quite early, as i saw the lies everywhere and the black/white splitting very early. WHat did i think? that i was SPECIAL, that this would not happen to me if i would treat her right and with respect... . i even felt priviledged i was not receiving that treatment... . i was the right one, the one! (right?)

then things got ugly and uglier. and i felt i was stuck, i felt couldnt move! then the red flags were everywhere, and i started to make connections to the past, and i realized how manipulated i was. the rest is history.

[jojomak]

Ohhh,

I cannot believe how similar your story is.

My husband has been in 10yrs relationship. When he met me he said the relationship is dying etc, lied that the other girl has moved out and after weeks he said he loves me.

I did fall in love with him so so deeply.

He broke up with the other person. After year and a half of internet relationship I met him, got enagaged and last year married.

At the wedding I have met his mum - awful, cruel, manipulative person  ( reason of his illnes) ... . and my marriage had no right to be continued.

He left me 3times since than.

3 months ago he just dummped me on a street out of the blue ... . and we will be getting divorce.

He promised me baby, home, family. Said never loved anybody like me, I am his soulmate, beloved etc... . and he left me because his mother was interfering in our marriage and he couldn't cut her off.

So he left his wife ME, who loved him like I have no other man.

So shocked and sorry how we all have been treated.

[Changingman]

I realized my ex is crazier than a | Alice in wonderland | about a week into our relationship. I don't know why I stayed with her after that. I guess I just ignored it because she was entertaining.

This is shockingly true for the first 6 months then it moved to the next stage of enmeshment then it got really interesting... . I tried to change her.

If I'm honest 2-4 weeks in I went home thinking I should leave it, the whole scene around her seemed off.

Off ?   Ha ha ha I love it... . Off

I think it was Prettywoman who said:

"God, I am taking this poorly."

Understated expressions

This isn't nice at all

Ouch that smarts

[Changingman]

This is precisely the question that I am wrestling with. I saw the red flags with my stbxBPDgf within the first three months. She was still in a relationship with her spouse of ten years at the time. Within a week of telling me how attracted she was to me, she said she loved me, that I was her "soul-mate." I was going through a divorce from a someone you might call a straight-up bully, and I was so desperate to be loved. I thought God had answered my prayers. So, in no particular order, why didn't I see the first red flag, and the second, third, fourth... . there were so many I am ashamed to even count them all. Well, you ask the question of why? Here's how I see myself:

1. At first I doubted my own reality. I would say to myself things like, "this can't be," because no one lies like this. No one tells you two days before the closing of your new home together that they are $100K short, and that you are going to have to make up the difference. What did I do? I assumed her best intentions, that she really didn't understand the finances. I paid the $100K. In reality, I was in denial. I was a chump.

2. I truly believed what she was telling me. That the problem was me, and that I needed to be fixed. I jumped through every hoop she put in front of me. I was exhausted from emotional fatigue, and yet, I still kept believing it must be me. If I just try harder. Why? IMO because I didn't love myself enough; because I thought she was the emotional guru she said she was. She was the the shrink to my alleged pathology, and I believed her.

3. My own childhood of desperately wanting to please my parents, and never being able to do so. No accomplishment was enough to satisfy them, so I just get racking them up. I could have won the Nobel Prize and I still wouldn't have satisfied them. Rather than being satisfied with myself, I wanted their approval and love, so I just kept trying harder. Of course, today that makes me successful in my profession, but it also makes me a sitting duck for someone as emotionally abusive as my stbxBPDgf.

4. Our relationship ended for good (I hope) a week ago. Why? This time it's because I am remorseless and don't see her and how much pain I cause her. This is after she went on a drunken rage on Xmas eve, crossing the line and raging in my face, physically shaking me. Still, chump that I am, I apologized profusely for whatever I did to set her off; still no apology will ever be enough for her, or heartfelt enough. That, I could take to the bank. I have realized over the last few months that I could cut off my right arm to prove my remorsefulness for every perceived flaw of mine, or ways I have hurt her, and it would still not be enough. It was only with this episode that I realized she was even trying to control and tell me how to express my own pain and remorse. Somehow the lightbulb began to go off in my pathetic brain.

5. I have been a willing accomplice to her pathology. I have allowed her to define me; I have allowed her to define my reality; she even had me convinced of her lies and distortions. For these reasons, I ignored the red flags. And it's for these reasons that I have to understand WHY I would allow someone to do this to me. I'm at a place now that I realize how low my own feelings of self-worth were when I met her, and how I was perfectly willing to ignore all of my own needs and her red flags in order to gain the love and approval from her that I could never seem to get in my own childhood.

It doesn't make it any easier. I am still consumed with self-doubt, beating myself up, and wondering, what if I had just tried harder, or even worse, what if she's right? The wacky thing is, she is convinced that I am the one with a mental illness (BPD) in fact. Her ability to split and project are stunning. The moment I realized I couldn't fix this, that I was out of my league emotionally as she would have a distorted answer/lie for everything, was the moment I was able to begin the journey towards healing and to really looking at myself. This has been as painful as living with her, though at least I can see hope at the end of the tunnel instead of her freight train.

Yep all of the above, jumping from mild depression into this storm was invigorating for way too long. I took a sip of each addiction she had, it made me so sick. Since the end I realised none of these addictions were mine except love addiction, maybe the worst to have. I still hear girls say ... .

She just wants to find the one, the other, the healer, Prince Charming, knight, the saviour

knowing what I now know?

[Landslide2014]

Red flags?  Ummmm I guess I was too busy minimizing and owning so much stuff that wasn't

mine. I can totally relate to ConverseHome and by the way, amazing awareness (1st "A" is present in that post. Good for you.  I think that's where the true healing begins.  And guess what... . After I decided 20 years later,  to look at the red flags for what they really were... . Red flags I had to accept (2nd "A" that I missed them.  I am still working on accepting and trying  to focus on the amazing gift of recovery it has offered me.  And now it's time for the 3rd "A"... . Action!  Sometimes I feel stopped dead in my tracks, but at least I am grateful that I am now able to recognize that my marital relation is not, has not been healthy no matter how I tried to convince myself that I could make it so.  Awareness, Acceptance and Action!

[Pinoypride18]

Everything was great the first year, no signs or nothing major. The next year idealzation phase ended and she started devaluing me. A little at first then more and more. But it did not hit me that the relationship was going downhill and that there were parts that were not healthy until 2.5 years. By then i had moved 30mins away because of work. We would barely see each other on the weekends. She was busy and i was busy. But with that i could tell she wasnt getting the attention she needed to survive. Around our 3 year mark i was constantly unhappy and depressed.