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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: My observation of her BPD traits  (Read 4944 times)
glacier_glider
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« on: February 10, 2014, 04:47:16 PM »

After our final breakup I spent a lot of time reading and learning about BPD.

She resurfaced 10-11 months later. I let her in. Not completely. Didn’t even think about a relationship with her. Just for occasional thingy. It lasted for a couple of months.

Every time I saw her, I tried to observe her behavior and experiment some of my ideas, now that I knew what BPD was and how things worked.

Many people on this forum pointed out “BPD eyes”. This is so true!

I was paying very close attention to her ever changing opinions about things.

I caught her lying in almost every sentence.

I saw exactly how she tried to put me on pedestal when she resurfaced. Textbook stuff! It was funny.

In that short period of time I actually learned how to manipulate her a little.

Some people here describe that “unclear” speech sometimes. Yes!

I closely watched every detail about development of every conversation. Can write an article about this.

And her reaction to my every indirect BPD-related hint.

Got as much detail as I could about her feelings and emotions toward me while we were apart (some of this time she had partners).

Actually, they are not that unpredictable. I’d say even more predictable than a non-BPD person if you understand the traits and know the person well.

Interesting experience.

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Moonie75
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« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2014, 06:51:37 PM »

Your thread interests me... .

"unclear speech sometimes"?

Can you elaborate on this please? I never (to my knowledge) noticed unclear speech. Maybe if you would be kind enough to explain a little, I might have experienced this but not noticed at the time.

Moonie.

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UnLuckyLady
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« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2014, 06:57:20 PM »

I have the same question about "BPD eyes".  Im intrigued!   Please.elaborate!
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glacier_glider
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« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2014, 06:58:14 PM »

Your thread interests me... .

"unclear speech sometimes"?

Can you elaborate on this please? I never (to my knowledge) noticed unclear speech. Maybe if you would be kind enough to explain a little, I might have experienced this but not noticed at the time.

Moonie.

About a year ago, I read thousands of posts on this forum and came across this a couple (few) times.

Same with "Borderline eyes".

The best description would be, in the middle of a conversation she starts speaking in a child voice and speak unclearly, almost gibberish. This is probably not very common but, as I said, I have read about this here.

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glacier_glider
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« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2014, 07:00:49 PM »

I have the same question about "BPD eyes".  Im intrigued!   Please.elaborate!

Google that phrase.
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Moonie75
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2014, 07:13:09 PM »

I have the same question about "BPD eyes".  Im intrigued!   Please.elaborate!

Google that phrase.

Yes I've seen the eyes.

The movie, Jaws, the first one. The fisherman dude who's determined to catch Jaws, is telling the other two guys on the boat about looking a great white shark in the eye.

"Lifeless, evil eyes. Dead eyes, soulless eyes"  That's what you see when a pwBPD is overwhelmed with rage & only sees hate when they look at you.

They look totally detached from themselves, like there's nobody, or more to the point, no functioning heart, in there. It's the nearest you could realistically get to looking into the eyes of a person possessed by an evil entity.

It can be truly terrifying. In the main, because it's just like looking into the eyes of something so evil & bereft of feeling, that it can even feel inhuman!

I don't really think it can be understood until its been seen first hand.
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glacier_glider
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2014, 07:19:30 PM »

detached... .

Yes, detached. I've always noticed that with her.

And recently she made a comment about her eyes looking drunk on every photo.

One person said that the has "bedroom eyes" when they saw her photos.


I don't really think it can be understood until its been seen first hand.

As everything else about them.
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Moonie75
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2014, 07:23:28 PM »

Not sure about "bedroom eyes".

I'd agree with "empty attic room eyes"
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Changingman
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« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2014, 09:37:28 PM »

I totally agree they are disappointingly predictable, only the chaos of being around them makes it hard to see. Once out the same act happens again and again. The eyes thing is true, I call them psycho eyes. They are also afraid of people seeing into their minds through their eyes and won't look at people much.
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letmeout
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« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2014, 09:57:37 PM »

My ex got those evil eyes and acted possessed by a demon when he was raging.

Before I knew what BPD was, I thought he was actually possessed by a demon.

I came close to calling a Catholic Priest to beg for an Exorcist a few times, and I'm not a catholic.

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glacier_glider
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« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2014, 10:20:09 PM »

I totally agree they are disappointingly predictable, only the chaos of being around them makes it hard to see. Once out the same act happens again and again. The eyes thing is true, I call them psycho eyes. They are also afraid of people seeing into their minds through their eyes and won't look at people much.

This time around she had to put more effort to keep me.

I'll be graphic here: Those wide open evil eyes during oral staring at me. And the devilish smile.

One other thing I've learned this time: Do they do this purposely? No f... ng way!

There is no other way for them. Or, I should say, for her.
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« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2014, 11:49:30 PM »

What were her feelings and emotions toward you while you were apart?
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glacier_glider
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« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2014, 12:00:08 AM »

What were her feelings and emotions toward you while you were apart?

The whole spectrum. Started with anger and went into "unconditional love". Didn't take long to go from one extreme to the other.

Then she was following me on social networking and dating sites.

But was always afraid to initiate contact because thought that I wouldn't respond. And they hate that. More than hate. They cannot accept that. It triggers their main fear.
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Changingman
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« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2014, 12:01:16 AM »

I totally agree they are disappointingly predictable, only the chaos of being around them makes it hard to see. Once out the same act happens again and again. The eyes thing is true, I call them psycho eyes. They are also afraid of people seeing into their minds through their eyes and won't look at people much.

This time around she had to put more effort to keep me.

I'll be graphic here: Those wide open evil eyes during oral staring at me. And the devilish smile.

One other thing I've learned this time: Do they do this purposely? No f... ng way!

There is no other way for them. Or, I should say, for her.

Oh lord it's true, her sadistic smile of being bad.

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NoCRV
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« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2014, 12:46:02 AM »

Hey Uncomfortably Numb,

You said you let her in?  So she re engaged you?
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glacier_glider
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« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2014, 12:47:45 AM »

Hey Uncomfortably Numb,

You said you let her in?  So she re engaged you?

"Let her in" is an overstatement.

Of course she re-engaged me.

We were engaged in some interesting activities.  Smiling (click to insert in post)
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Moonie75
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« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2014, 09:34:43 AM »

What were her feelings and emotions toward you while you were apart?

The whole spectrum. Started with anger and went into "unconditional love". Didn't take long to go from one extreme to the other.

Then she was following me on social networking and dating sites.

But was always afraid to initiate contact because thought that I wouldn't respond. And they hate that. More than hate. They cannot accept that. It triggers their main fear.

Was she involved in a new relationship with your replacement throughout this cycle of anger switching to unconditional love for you?

Or did the idealization & cyber stalking only start after her new romance failed?

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TheRoadtoNowhere
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« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2014, 01:49:46 PM »

  Hey everyone,  during my 15 month long roller coaster ride thru hell, there were several times I saw "the look" in her beautiful lil eyes.  There were times, especially the last few times, just before she "ran away", she would tell me that she wanted to "go back home" and that "nothing you say or do is gonna make any difference". She would just look me right in the eyes and it was like she was literally trying to kill me with her stare... .   So black, so lifeless and cold... .   I didnt even know who this person was sitting on my bed ripping my heart out!  At times like these, her entire demeanor would change,... . SHE WAS A COMPLETE STRANGER SITTING NEXT TO ME!

  Also, there were times were me and her would get into arguments, that she started, now that I look back on it, (probably trying to deflect) and if I raised my voice (which isnt hard for me as I have a fairly deep voice), she would just cover her ears and almost go into the fetal position and rock back and forth.  She would go into almost a trance, she would look at me, but wouldnt, or couldnt say anything for at least an hour.  I would try to talk to her and ask her questions trying to get her to answer me, but nothing... .    At times she would respond to me, but it was like she couldnt talk and more than once, she would  respond in sign language.

  The weirdest part of it all, and it happened every time she did this,  she would just, "snap out of it, then she  would be like a sexual beast, she would practically rape me and would want to do the sexiest, nastiest things that ordinarily she didnt want to do (like an*l and DP with me and her toys), it was like she was possessed, she HAD to have it!  Again, it was like she was a different woman.  Looking back at our r/s, there were a hundred  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) 's but between ignorance, love, naivete and the fact that she was the most perfect, beautiful, sexy woman Ive EVER been with.  I was "low hanging fruit" to her and she used and played me until there was nothing left that she wanted, then after 15 months, she abandoned me without so much as a word, she went back to her estranged husband.  No good-bye, no, I love you but this aint working, no humanity, not ___, just gone... .   That was 45 days ago!  I still feel like Im at square one and Ill be there FOREVER!
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SeekingAdviceinCa
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« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2014, 02:04:46 PM »

Mine would always have very poor eye contact.  The therapist we saw said it was telling, that constant looking away or up was indicative of some kind of mental illness. 

Anyone else notice this with their BPD?  Poor eye contact?

I also have seen the rage eyes.  Cold, rage-fueled, terrifying. 
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Johnny Alias
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« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2014, 02:38:49 PM »

  Hey everyone,  during my 15 month long roller coaster ride thru hell, there were several times I saw "the look" in her beautiful lil eyes.  There were times, especially the last few times, just before she "ran away", she would tell me that she wanted to "go back home" and that "nothing you say or do is gonna make any difference". She would just look me right in the eyes and it was like she was literally trying to kill me with her stare... .   So black, so lifeless and cold... .   I didnt even know who this person was sitting on my bed ripping my heart out!  At times like these, her entire demeanor would change,... . SHE WAS A COMPLETE STRANGER SITTING NEXT TO ME!

  Also, there were times were me and her would get into arguments, that she started, now that I look back on it, (probably trying to deflect) and if I raised my voice (which isnt hard for me as I have a fairly deep voice), she would just cover her ears and almost go into the fetal position and rock back and forth.  She would go into almost a trance, she would look at me, but wouldnt, or couldnt say anything for at least an hour.  I would try to talk to her and ask her questions trying to get her to answer me, but nothing... .    At times she would respond to me, but it was like she couldnt talk and more than once, she would  respond in sign language.

  The weirdest part of it all, and it happened every time she did this,  she would just, "snap out of it, then she  would be like a sexual beast, she would practically rape me and would want to do the sexiest, nastiest things that ordinarily she didnt want to do (like an*l and DP with me and her toys), it was like she was possessed, she HAD to have it!  Again, it was like she was a different woman.  Looking back at our r/s, there were a hundred  Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) 's but between ignorance, love, naivete and the fact that she was the most perfect, beautiful, sexy woman Ive EVER been with.  I was "low hanging fruit" to her and she used and played me until there was nothing left that she wanted, then after 15 months, she abandoned me without so much as a word, she went back to her estranged husband.  No good-bye, no, I love you but this aint working, no humanity, not ___, just gone... .   That was 45 days ago!  I still feel like Im at square one and Ill be there FOREVER!

Hang in there Road.  At least you're here.  You've gotten some insight.  Many men out there are still completely confused about what is happening to them.  They're desperate for answers and yet have NONE.  This will get better.  And if you got out of this without losing money, child custody, your home, business, reputation, and life... . you got off easy.  Really.  You woulnd't believe the horror stories I've read. 

As for the dead eyes... . yes.  No reflection.  No soul.  Looking for prey... . and once you're painted black you will be destroyed.  The rage will be so much it will overwhelm you.  Usually you will have seen NOTHING like it. 

It doesnt stop.  You weren't the last.  My ex tried to convince me that she got along perfectly with her ex husband and boyfriend before.  Her ex friend of 15 years told that's total BS and that she fought with them both. 

This happens eventually to EVERYONE they see.  It is unavoidable. 
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« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2014, 03:43:24 PM »

  Hey Johnny, thanks man.  Sometimes its hard to put into perspective, but your right, at least my life is still relatively intact.  We were together 15 months, but from the time I first saw "the look", it wasnt long before things started to unravel, like many, the Red flag/bad  (click to insert in post) 's were there but,... . well, you know.  Also, youre right about it not ending, when we first started seeing each other, she would tell me stories of physical and emotional "abuse" from her estranged husband and I fell for it, Id get all pissed and want to go "avenge her in some way".  Im one of the "good guy, fix it" types. But I recently found out from her daughter that now Im the bad guy and Im the one who has problems with being controlling, manipulative and "abusive".  Im just glad that her daughter knows the truth, she lived with us and her and I were very close,  I thought of her as my own kid and she knows how much I loved her mother.  I always treated her mom like a queen. (part of my down-fall), but just like me, her husband is probably all pissed at me and thinking the same things I did in the beginning.  What a vicious cycle!
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Johnny Alias
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« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2014, 04:30:48 PM »

It truly is.  Part of saying how abusive the ex was is very symptomatic.  It creates drama and aggression, two of the things they live on. 

More than anything it enables the white knight complex in the new guy.  Let me rescue you!  Also it disavows them of any wrongdoing on their part.  You're the scapegoat.  I was with mine for four years. 

Another I went out with who was more ASPD than BPD did a total head job on me.  We were engaged.  After some serious Triangulation when we broke up, an affair, etc. I finally got a hold of her ex husband who guided me through all her lies.  Thank god.  He truly saved me.  I had never been so lost. 

These women did us a favor if they left or expressing their rage enough that we cut the cord.  I'm 38.  I've got rental properties, a great house, a good dog, and still easily have potential to meet the mother of my kid.  If I'd stayed with mine for 4 years much of my value would have diminished.  She'd easily get common law compensation.  My health would be a wreck due to partying with her all the time.  I'd lose my home.  If managed to have a miracle baby she would spend the rest of her life telling it what an evil villain I am. 

This was kind of an epiphany for me today.  God it helped.  Doesn't hurt that I'm seeing a stone cold hottie tonight, but seriously... . I'd rather be alone than look into those evil shark eyes again.  The void. 6 drinks then RAGE.    
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Pinoypride18
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« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2014, 06:21:30 PM »

I called them "crazy eyes" she would talk about other women with the crazy eyes but oddly she had the craziest eyes out of all. She would give you a blank i hate you stare with eyes twitching. She would do this to me but i wouldn't think she is crazy. Like a child with a temper tantrum, it just looks cute. It wasnt till the breakup that i realized she had the crazy eyes. And that she really was showing me a window to her soul, in that she had no soul.

I hope one day she realizes she has those same crazy eyes she would accuse others of having.
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whatathing
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« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2014, 08:35:25 PM »

Mine would always have very poor eye contact.  The therapist we saw said it was telling, that constant looking away or up was indicative of some kind of mental illness. 

Anyone else notice this with their BPD?  Poor eye contact?

I also have seen the rage eyes.  Cold, rage-fueled, terrifying. 

Yes, my uBPDexgf avoided looking in the eyes, all the time. We even joked about it, she admitted it. And when she made eye contact, many times I had a feeling of a fake expression, she just hid herself behind all that. Very avoidant.
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letmeout
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« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2014, 09:20:09 PM »

she went back to her estranged husband. 

I am shocked that her estranged husband would take her back; he must be a glutton for punishment.

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Moonie75
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« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2014, 09:27:45 PM »

she went back to her estranged husband. 

I am shocked that her estranged husband would take her back; he must be a glutton for punishment.

My ex's, ex husband would have her back in a heartbeat. He's the only one she's never recycled. I think that's a shame thing because she'd look such a tw@t for breaking up a family, and then going back to her husband & the marital home. A back-pedal that would bring just a little too much humiliation?

She knows he'd have her straight back though & uses him like you wouldn't believe, she runs to him to fix problems for her.

She also triangulates her partners with him. Yeah he's a glutton, he's a pawn, and he's been broken by her too!
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buddy1226
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« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2014, 11:12:20 PM »

Unreal, moonie! My e's, ex was the third person in our marriage. Did everything you just described. I hated it! I hadn't heard of a similar situation until now. Crazy Triangulation. Pawn indeed. What a tool!
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Moonie75
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« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2014, 11:19:09 PM »

Unreal, moonie! My e's, ex was the third person in our marriage. Did everything you just described. I hated it! I hadn't heard of a similar situation until now. Crazy Triangulation. Pawn indeed. What a tool!

I thought of starting a thread on this a while back. 'If your pwBPD had kids from a previous relationship, were you regularly triangulated with the other parent?"
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« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2014, 11:25:21 PM »

That was it and why I tolerated it. They have a kid. They guy ate dinner at our house 3 nights a week and when she was mad at me (always) he was there more. Was there until we went to bed. Did her dirty work and ultimately fanned the flames for her departure. I didn't realize that was so common. In fact I thought our situation was the only one like it. We've hijacked this thread but yeah... that should have been yet another of the million deal breakers I overlooked.
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« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2014, 05:22:01 PM »

Hey glacier_glider, I remember you from a year ago. Time doesn't fly when you're not having fun, eh?  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Many people on this forum pointed out “BPD eyes”. This is so true!

I know that 'look'. Actually, I believe it's more than that. It's body language and inflection, too. It's quite startling when this appears seemingly out of nowhere. Even so, I don't describe this personality paradigm shift as "evil, dead, or cold" (though I understand the notions). Looking deeper and beyond the outer appearance I see fear, hurt, anger and torment - none of which was the result of anything I did (or did not) do, though I took it very personally while engaged in it.

As strenuous as healing from this kind of a relationship is, given the choice I'll always walk that mile in my own shoes as opposed to hers. It's a torment and instability that we could never begin to imagine... .
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