dealing with the roller-coaster, aka "forgetting everything i've learned."

[DreamFlyer99]

i was so pleased when last week my uBPDh had a good little moment of taking responsibility for his own actions.

Yesterday he did pretty well considering he had knee repair surgery in the morning. He apologized in the afternoon because he realized he was grumpy when we first got home, so he said "i realized that i was grumpy, and i'm sorry, i don't mean to treat you worse than i did the nurses." He had them charmed, so the first one that met me to show me to his bed in recovery said, "oh your husband is just the sweetest man! You hold onto him!" And he wanted a photo with the nurses to remember how great they were to him. (i don't think it hurt that they were all pretty young things. We are both 60.)

Today went steeply and quickly downhill and i became the Worst of the Worst, Baiting Him and being The Cause of Why He Yells at me. Apparently he has once again forgotten who he married and who i am, and i have become Satan's Spawn once again. (well, my mom was kinda crazy and mean... . )

i let my pissed off side get the better of me and did the most foolish of all things... .

E N G A G E D. i am going to reread the article on NOT engaging in a stupid one sided argument where i am going to be at fault no matter what. it is beyond pointless and just inspires more spewing of acid from his tongue. Big fat *S I G H*

i may have even explained to him WHY i was defending myself. Now i need to also reread the article about how defending myself is pointless, JADEing is not helpful, and perhaps add on Number 4 from The Lessons: surviving confrontation and disrespect. Weirdly, when i tell him i feel he's being disrespectful he continues being disrespectful.

GAAAH

Of course if i say "okay, i'm going upstairs for a while" he has to come up and tell me i'm pouting. At least here i have learned not to go straight to my 5 year old self who gets all offended and wants to say "YOU can't call me a pouter!" So i did a little better and said, "no, i just didn't want to be around you anymore." OH WAIT--was that NOT "better"? Hmmm.

Anyway, it's been a bad day and it's not even dinner time. Poop.

Oh--and with the knee surgery, he's on big opiates and has been adding in rum and cokes. Yay. i've heard that's a killer combination, especially for a guy who suffers from depression and (at least today) thinks his wife is the one whose fault the whole mess is.

Yes, i AM feeling snarky, thank you for asking!

df99

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Lilibeth]

DreamFlyer99, i can picture this vividly... . (it is so very identical to what i go through too)... . also true that sometimes when we need it, the lessons become elusive - i've realized that this happens, most always, when i'm tired emotionally and mentally and physically... . could be that the day's happenings had tired you out, and you were vulnerable... .

It's so awful that they can be charming to strangers and quite, quite different to us... . truly awful this side is, and so difficult to accept.

[unicorn2014]

I appreciate you elucidating this. I've had older women say the same thing to me about my dBPD partner, "you hold on to him honey he's a keeper" growl, if only they knew what happened when he got mad.

[DreamFlyer99]

Thank you both, Lilibeth and unicorn2014! Now I feel validated!

I think there must have been a hesitant look on my face when Adorable Young Nurse said that. Why fibromyalgia came up I'm not sure, but she said "Oh! My aunt has that and it's really bad the pain she deals with!" Then when she was helping him into the car the "sweet" man said to her, "But sometimes I think people just use it as an excuse for 'oh I'm too tired to cook, would you buy something?'" And I'm thinking, "see how sweet he is? How about YOU take him home for his recovery."

Yes, there are very much 2 sides to pwBPD, and it seems to be the public and the private.

Lilibeth, yes I think you're right--I'm definitely more vulnerable when I'm tired and hurting physically, and there's the constant struggle of him trying to make me believe everything he says is right while I'm trying to be me, but kindly not in his face. So I'd imagine that very much played into it.

And part of it is that I get more outwardly upset than inwardly like I used to. When I thought that I WAS probably at fault, after all he was so persuasive about how awful I was, then the pain and anger would turn in and I would feel worse and sometimes mildly suicidal. Now that I realize I am a whole entire person of my own not put on the planet just to serve his needs, it pisses me off when he acts up. I find that my anger filters get a little thin at those moments.

These days I'm currently experiencing his dysregulation are showing me how futile it is to actually answer his questions. When told that he "really wanted to work this out" I should have seen that what he really wanted was to try to convince me that he is always right and that I am wrong. Silly me!

Today he's angry because I had told him how it feels when he talks to me that mean way. So he is now the Suffering One who has been hurt by my words. Wow, way to deflect that one!

Big sigh. Thanks for being there for me ladies.

[waverider]

Just because you feel like you should be better equipped to deal with these issues, don't beat yourself up more just because you didn't pop out the ideal response.

We are all going to fail at times, no matter how much we know. The difference is that you will probably recover from it better, as you will quickly recognize it for what it is, and move on.

You will never be not triggered. That is not normal.

[Lilibeth]

Hope you have given 'YOU' enough time, DreamFlyer99, to rest and recuperate. Hope too that you have spent more time with your feelings, and are feeling physically stronger. As waverider said, we will fail at times, but we will recover too... .

Maybe it's a i'm-a-great-person-treat time for you, DreamFlyer99

[DreamFlyer99]

Thanks Waverider for the reminder, that is good to think about. i did manage to turn things around through his many small tantrums of the evening by working very hard to remain mindful and Not Engage. He tried many many times to bait the hook and reel me in, but i didn't allow it. HAH! It's not a contest, but I WIN! This did lead to a better day today, though he's still being moody.

Lilibeth, i was thinking about that, needing to perhaps just go get a manicure and pedicure, something that feels so indulgent. Mostly i have spent time in another room from him saying that this way he can play his video games he bought for his recovery.

One of the tantrums he had last night was to leave without telling me to walk the half mile to the liquor store to buy a huge jug of rum. This was on the knee he had surgery 3 days earlier on, and that the doctor just that morning had said "walk on it as little as is necessary." Wow. He was so worried that he might run out of rum for the rum and cokes he's been liberally supplementing his heavy opiates with. And yet he had me get the "caffeine free" version of the soda! Glad he's watching his health. ?

Today he was the happiest chap while talking to people at his job about work. He loves his job, he's great at his job, and now if i would just go back to being bully-able and compliant he'd have the perfect life.

But then, a perfect life gives you no reason to grow, right?

i love when friends say "but did you tell him this? Did you say that?" Even his sister said "have you told him he's being like his mother was?" And i patiently say, no, because logic is pointless when he's in the illogical mode.

[Lilibeth]

Hope you are feeling stronger, DreamFlyer99, and hope you did give yourself the treat. DreamFlyer99, i don't think any logic works - when my husband is in a talkable mood, i do try to talk to him and get him to see how his anger is not working - but then i'm not sure how his brain processes it, because when it doesn't work out, it's back to me... . so now i just leave things be and concentrate on doing something else - since i do a lot of needlecraft, and i have to have my head bent, i just repeat things i've learnt here and pray for the time to pass... . still do feel dented, but then manage to get myself back soon.

[Chosen]

Hi DreamFlyer99,

I can SO relate to your post.  As people who've been here for quite some time, we've learnt the Lessons.  We do know what's good and what's not in communication.  We're not ignorant like before we came here.  BUT sometimes we're just not in the right frame of mind and we can't practise it.  It happens to me too.  Usually when I'm moody/ emotional about things, perhaps not completely related to my pwBPD.

Then I will do all the wrong things and I'll feel even worse because it led to some kind of fight/ argument/ prolonged discussion... .

But at the end of the day, we're human.  All we can do is to try again tomorrow.  I'm sure there were lots of times when you practised the Lessons and they did work, so I'm sure you can do it again when you've took some time to yourself. 

Take care 

[DreamFlyer99]

Well, it all went to heck last night. he'd been drinking a lot and apparently storing up a lot of mean-ness to spew. he got physically and verbally threatening, so I texted my son in law to come get me please and he answered immediately and left immediately to get me, so I'm at my daughter's house with her and her hubby and my 2 grandgirls.

We shall see what happens from here.

I guess the BEST thing about it is that I knew right off that he was in the wrong and this wasn't my fault and had the sense to leave the house for once.

[Turkish]

Well, it all went to heck last night. he'd been drinking a lot and apparently storing up a lot of mean-ness to spew. he got physically and verbally threatening, so I texted my son in law to come get me please and he answered immediately and left immediately to get me, so I'm at my daughter's house with her and her hubby and my 2 grandgirls.

We shall see what happens from here.

I guess the BEST thing about it is that I knew right off that he was in the wrong and this wasn't my fault and had the sense to leave the house for once.

Hi DF99, I understand you're probably just glad you are out of the house for now and probably deflating or something like that. Are you thinking of waiting to see what happens, or doing something yourself? Where do you see things going now?

[waverider]

I guess the BEST thing about it is that I knew right off that he was in the wrong and this wasn't my fault and had the sense to leave the house for once.

These things happen in a BPD RS, the difference is you did the healthy thing. Did you have this exit plan already in mind if things went bad?

What will happen will happen now, but you did what was necessary for you to avoid making it worse for you. It was a boundary, you enacted a consequence, he knows you are willing to do so and are not defenseless. You have demonstrated that you are in his company by choice.

Can you stay objective about all this or do you feel emotionally charged?

[DreamFlyer99]

Today i feel confused and exhausted. (i pick C please!)

i was proud of myself for making a good choice, but i didn't have a clear plan. i just suddenly in the midst of it realized "i'm not alone--i have family!" and was able to get my message out for help. if it makes any sense, i suddenly just "KNEW" i had people who would help me. i guess it was part of getting a bit out of the FOG.

i have no idea what's next. i don't want to risk being there alone with just him and 3 wiener dogs... . my son in law will take me, so i'm thinking that maybe he can talk to my H in the back yard or something and my daughter can go in with me. We may even try to bring the dogs back to her house, since one of them has special needs medically.

i'm trying to remain objective, it's taking some effort. But i know that the guy from last night isn't exactly the guy i built a family with, he needs help desperately, but i am not the one who can make that happen, he has to want to.

i'm having trouble thinking, of course, having had weird sleep and all that strangeness from last night. i don't know how to quote you on an ipad, but i love the whole thing you wrote, Waverider, about consequences and boundaries. Fortunately i was in a new place emotionally where everything made sense. i of course still catch myself saying 'rescue-y" things in my head... .

Mostly Turkish, i just see myself NOT being there with him in this condition. i've informed some people, all my kids know what's up. They of course are not happy with what he's doing or what he did to me. They didn't really know how bad it was getting.

i honestly don't know what TO do, but i'm welcome at my daughter's for however long i need to be here.

Just kinda feeling my way, talking to my T tomorrow.

Thank you for helping me here. i'm too tired for this poop.

Oh--a couple of them have said, "of course i'm not taking sides" which i absolutely support. And it feels very strange to admit to any of them that i'm afraid.

[waverider]

Maybe if you stay a few nights at your daughters for a while and spend some day time with him so that you dont feel trapped, and he still knows you are serious, rather than it just being an incident, that is quickly in the past and forgotten.

[Lilibeth]

DreamFlyer99, this is just not good, but i must say that what you did was just superb - wonderful- what strength you showed... . of course you are confused, exhausted and afraid... . my goodness, DreamFlyer99, what you've gone through is awful. I agree with Waverider - just stay with your daughter, and give your mind and body rest. Just concentrate on getting yourself back. Don't think of anything right now, till you feel strong again, and don't feel trapped - while your daughter is right there with you, remember we are also here for you. Am sending you loads of hugs and energies, DreamFlyer99.

[DreamFlyer99]

Thank you Lilibeth, because of course I am too much of a mess right now to think super clearly!

Waverider, at the moment I'm not sure about spending any time with him because he just goes into the he's so miserable, i'll do anything, why are doing this, is it all over, on and on. it's been hard enough to get his texts and deal with them.

It's just tough, because I'm supposed to be taking care of him after his knee surgery, but he's really really dysregulated right now, and he's intimidating. And he wouldn't let me bring the dogs. I think he's using them as collateral to get me to come around, but he can't have a real conversation yet. He has some serious work to do on himself, but he won't look at that or get help yet. And I can't place myself in the crazy for a while.

I see my T tomorrow, thank God, and she'll have some good insights.

I'm just so exhausted in every way possible.

[Lilibeth]

I can understand the emotional blackmail he'll try on you - no DreamFlyer99, never mind the dogs, please stay with your daughter till you feel you can handle things... . Please don't misunderstand me, DreamFlyer99 - would you like to try and just keep your phone off? at least for a few days? You need to recuperate and get your strength back. Thinking of you and wishing only peacefulness for you... .

[Lilibeth]

How are YOU feeling today, DreamFlyer99?

[DreamFlyer99]

Lilibeth,

you are so lovely checking on me!

Today is a better day. Honestly, being with my daughter and her family has been such a relief, and getting the distance from my uBPDh has been so great for my mental health!

From this distance I can see how much damage I've sustained (I feel guilty saying that!) I am so sad about the dogs but I know that once my H returns to work I can go see them.

All of my children are supportive--I think it was just a bit of a shock. But they all know how "off" he can get. He texted me this long message about how he was looking forward to spending time with me while he was off work with his knee surgery. I just thought, "then perhaps you shouldn't be physically and emotionally threatening!" Seriously, that's just common sense--which he lacks.

My T was awesome (as always) and helped me define my boundaries a bit more clearly, and helped me realize that my H has the rest of the family to ask for help if he needs it. My youngest daughter works close to the house and would come for lunch to hang out with me every day of the work week, and she's worried he may try to have her replace me as the workforce.  She has had better boundaries than me ALWAYS. She jokingly says she's too selfish to be enabling. Selfish in that case just means self-care for her, and she realizes that he's never gonna figure out how to take care of himself and be a big boy until he's forced to.

I don't know at this point if I will go back, but my gut says that if he was to start therapy today it would be a year before I could even look for serious changes. I won't go back unless there is a huuuge change in his understanding and treatment of me because my depression is lifting in just a few days time, I can get up in the morning and feel happy. What a difference a day can make!

How is your situation?

*Oh--my son in law where I am is very techie, and I'm gonna have him help me deal with the phone and other issues to keep my H from stalking me and bugging me.

[Turkish]

Lilibeth,

you are so lovely checking on me!

Today is a better day. Honestly, being with my daughter and her family has been such a relief, and getting the distance from my uBPDh has been so great for my mental health!

From this distance I can see how much damage I've sustained (I feel guilty saying that!) I am so sad about the dogs but I know that once my H returns to work I can go see them.

All of my children are supportive--I think it was just a bit of a shock. But they all know how "off" he can get. He texted me this long message about how he was looking forward to spending time with me while he was off work with his knee surgery. I just thought, "then perhaps you shouldn't be physically and emotionally threatening!" Seriously, that's just common sense--which he lacks.

My T was awesome (as always) and helped me define my boundaries a bit more clearly, and helped me realize that my H has the rest of the family to ask for help if he needs it.

That's great, DF99! Do you think you were in the past the kind of person who had trouble asking someone else for help? I was like this (and was accused of it in the end by my uBPDx). I've learned that it's ok to reach out. In reaching out, I found a whole army of people lining up behind me (including you, thank you). It feels good, and I'm learning it's ok to feel good. Maybe that was an unhealthy boundary in my case (self protection? Guilt of not taking care of others? I don't know... . ). You've carried so much weight in your life taking care of your family, it's time that you've earned a respite and let the love you gave out come back to you. That's reciprocation, and it's real. Take the very best care, DF99!

Turkish

[DreamFlyer99]

My Turkish friend,

That's great, DF99! Do you think you were in the past the kind of person who had trouble asking someone else for help? I was like this (and was accused of it in the end by my uBPDx). I've learned that it's ok to reach out. In reaching out, I found a whole army of people lining up behind me (including you, thank you). It feels good, and I'm learning it's ok to feel good. Maybe that was an unhealthy boundary in my case (self protection? Guilt of not taking care of others? I don't know... . ). You've carried so much weight in your life taking care of your family, it's time that you've earned a respite and let the love you gave out come back to you. That's reciprocation, and it's real. Take the very best care, DF99!

Turkish

AWWWW... .

And YES I've thought i was an island for a loong time! Hard to accept help. But you're right about the reciprocal thing, and that's totally how they've been.

[waverider]

Sometimes that physical space is required to kick start some of the changes required that you have been toying with since you started this self discovery. Its like removing a filter from your life and seeing things for how they really are

[Lilibeth]

DreamFlyer99, it is wonderful, just wonderful to have you back. I know it's going to be a long haul for you - just remember that you are not alone, and we are all sending you our energies to cover you... . As Turkish said, 'It's ok to feel good.' And you really need to push everything aside and just concentrate on yourself for a bit here, DreamFlyer99. You've done a lot, and now it is YOU-time.

You know, Turkish, you really struck something in me when you said that line about it's being ok to feel good. This sense of guilt (which in reality is false) really needs to be weeded out - i know i have to work on this... .

It's difficult to know who to go to for help, Turkish. When i tried that, i remember being told by a person i thought was a friend - 'leave the ass.' Those of us who are in relationships with BPDs and are serious about learning how to stay on - see if we can't make sense of this and make the best of it - will know that leaving is not the solution, and yet staying on is hard work, do-able but hard... . but hardly anyone understands that. This is the first time that i am finding so much support, validation of my innermost feelings that i could hardly even express. I am so grateful for the understanding i get from you, DreamFlyer99 and Waverider... .

What Waverider has said that 'physical space is required to kick start some of the changes required that you have been toying with since you started this self discovery,' is very, very essential. Physical space and knowing that there are people who not only accept you, but give you the reassurance that all is not lost, that we can make it, that we are not alone is what makes the whole difference on this journey on which we have started. I'm trying to create this space under the constraints i'm living under... . and small though it is, it is working... .

DreamFlyer99, that tech help regarding your phone is just what you need... . so glad he'll be able to do what is needed right now.

Take good care of yourself,you  DreamFlyer99. We're with you. Positive energies from me are streaming to you... . It's YOU first... .

[Lilibeth]

Hope you are you feeling better, DreamFlyer99.

[maxen]

dreamflyer i'm so sorry to hear about your situation. thank god you have your family nearby!

I can understand the emotional blackmail he'll try on you - no DreamFlyer99, never mind the dogs, please stay with your daughter till you feel you can handle things... . Please don't misunderstand me, DreamFlyer99 - would you like to try and just keep your phone off? at least for a few days? You need to recuperate and get your strength back. Thinking of you and wishing only peacefulness for you... .

ooh that was too good lilibeth, i'm getting my dander up just reading it ... .

[Lilibeth]

How are you, DreamFlyer99?

[DreamFlyer99]

I'm doing fairly well, thanks to my T. She's seeing me weekly right now which is such good help!

i had an awesome realization today--i have people who love me not for what i can do for them, but simply because I'm me! What a great feeling that any of my children absolutely welcome me into their homes for as long as needed.

Then I'm sad because it's taken me this long, till age 60, to accept this truth. But glad i realized before i die.

i had gotten to a point where i wondered when that time would ever come in marriage where my husband just loved me because of who i am, and had started realizing that would probably never happen. And here are family and some friends who just plain accept me that way.

i looked back at the week just spent at my daughter's and saw how i kept asking "what can i do? Do you want me to wash dishes? Do laundry?" and they all kept saying, "Naw, it's fine, we have all that covered, just relax." And i saw that i was still in my Old Way of Thinking--"i must show my worthiness of being taken care of, my reason for being valuable." And when we're loved, just plain loved, there's no proving needed. We're just awesome and people recognize that!

Thanks for checking on me Lilibeth!

[Turkish]

I'm doing fairly well, thanks to my T. She's seeing me weekly right now which is such good help!

i had an awesome realization today--i have people who love me not for what i can do for them, but simply because I'm me! What a great feeling that any of my children absolutely welcome me into their homes for as long as needed.

Then I'm sad because it's taken me this long, till age 60, to accept this truth. But glad i realized before i die.

i had gotten to a point where i wondered when that time would ever come in marriage where my husband just loved me because of who i am, and had started realizing that would probably never happen. And here are family and some friends who just plain accept me that way.

i looked back at the week just spent at my daughter's and saw how i kept asking "what can i do? Do you want me to wash dishes? Do laundry?" and they all kept saying, "Naw, it's fine, we have all that covered, just relax." And i saw that i was still in my Old Way of Thinking--"i must show my worthiness of being taken care of, my reason for being valuable." And when we're loved, just plain loved, there's no proving needed. We're just awesome and people recognize that!

Thanks for checking on me Lilibeth!

You raised good children, DF99, who chose good mates. Be proud! I only hope to emulate your success, though ultimately its up to our kids of course :^)

[DreamFlyer99]

Turkish,

it seems like the learning keeps on going--i learn stuff and pass it on to them. That's why there's so much less drama between my kids and me i think, I've let them know that it isn't their job to "fix us" and that being there for me is as simple as the fact that they'll let me stay with them. So yes, ultimately your children will make their choices, but it's been good for me to see that even while I'm still learning so much at 60 i can share it with them and hopefully have some input into making their own relationships stronger.

You're gonna do great, Turkish!

[Lilibeth]

DreamFlyer99 it is absolutely wonderful to see you back here. Have been really worried and wondering if you were all right. Am so glad you are on the way up.

Thank you for sharing your insights, DreamFlyer99 - I got a real start reading what you've written about the Old Way of Thinking - "i must show my worthiness of being taken care of, my reason for being valuable." This is what i keep doing all the time - keep trying to prove that i am worth being here... . He works, and somehow he conveys to me every single day that he is working so hard and i am at home (completely forgetting that i too used to work, and still do, though online, when i get work) - i try to ensure that there is no tension in the home - try to do my best to make it comfortable... . and kept feeling guilty too... . now i know better... . It does seem difficult, doesn't it, to accept that there are people who will love us just for being us... . takes time, i guess to let it sink in, and stay inside of us, firmly so that we don't swing back the other way... .

This is another line that got to me: 'i had gotten to a point where i wondered when that time would ever come in marriage where my husband just loved me because of who i am, and had started realizing that would probably never happen.' Got to me because of late, i too have been thinking along these lines - all these years i waited but now i know that this is never going to happen. That cosy feeling of emotional comfort is never going to happen. That is also when i realized that now it is not love but just plain peace that i want at home, and the times when my daughter visits me (she lives abroad, so she can come home only rarely, though we are in touch every day via msging). I was beginning to wonder if everything had really been for nought.

There is so much unlearning and cleaning up to do and let the new learning take its place, DreamFlyer99.

Turkish you gave me so much hope with your first post to me regarding my daughter... . i now see that she sees how much effort i am putting in to lead as normal a life i can possibly live, and is herself much stronger... . she used to look on so helplessly... . that is slowly changing. And, yes, DramFlyer99, i think seeing us will help make our kids strong.

I'm glad and grateful that i am not alone in my struggle. And importantly that there are hands that will help me up... .

Stay well and stay safe, DreamFlyer99. We're with you... .