Kids refuse visitation with BPD mother

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

After watching and enduring years of abuse (physical and mental) from their BPD mother against them, against my husband, against other people, my stepchildren finally decided almost two years ago to cut her off.  They continued to speak to her on the phone for a few months, but she began mentally abusing them on the phone.  After going hard at my SD one evening, my SD said she no longer wanted to talk to her.  She has not willingly spoken to her in over a year.  The mother was very hard on my SD and lax on my SS.  My SS could say anything to her and it was ok.  We asked him to keep talking to her on the phone so she wouldn't go completely crazy.  Finally he told us that he doesn't like talking to her on the phone and we told him that he doesn't have to talk to her every single time (she was calling everyday at one point and she finally got the message after her therapist and our family therapist told her it was too much and calls once a week now).  She has come to visit him specifically about two times since the end of 2012 and both times were disastrous because she either broke down crying or tried to coerce him into telling her that my husband and I have orchestrated the problems, even though he has told her outright what his issues were.  They have seen her at Thanksgiving and Christmas while visiting their aunt and grandmother and once again, disasters.  She actually gave them the silent treatment at Christmas and refused to even greet them.

My question is, what do we do?  We had SD in therapy for a while to try and help her work through her issues with her mother, but she asked to stop going and we didn't see any progress.  My husband even paid for an entire group session with all of us, but she didn't like it because the therapist allowed my husband to tell his point of view. He was willing to pay for another session, but she blew off the appointment.  We thought that they would have eased up after a while, but here we almost two years later and nothing has changed. 

[try2cope]

After watching and enduring years of abuse (physical and mental) from their BPD mother against them, against my husband, against other people, my stepchildren finally decided almost two years ago to cut her off.  They continued to speak to her on the phone for a few months, but she began mentally abusing them on the phone.  After going hard at my SD one evening, my SD said she no longer wanted to talk to her.  She has not willingly spoken to her in over a year.  The mother was very hard on my SD and lax on my SS.  My SS could say anything to her and it was ok.  We asked him to keep talking to her on the phone so she wouldn't go completely crazy.  Finally he told us that he doesn't like talking to her on the phone and we told him that he doesn't have to talk to her every single time (she was calling everyday at one point and she finally got the message after her therapist and our family therapist told her it was too much and calls once a week now).  She has come to visit him specifically about two times since the end of 2012 and both times were disastrous because she either broke down crying or tried to coerce him into telling her that my husband and I have orchestrated the problems, even though he has told her outright what his issues were.  They have seen her at Thanksgiving and Christmas while visiting their aunt and grandmother and once again, disasters.  She actually gave them the silent treatment at Christmas and refused to even greet them.

My question is, what do we do?  We had SD in therapy for a while to try and help her work through her issues with her mother, but she asked to stop going and we didn't see any progress.  My husband even paid for an entire group session with all of us, but she didn't like it because the therapist allowed my husband to tell his point of view. He was willing to pay for another session, but she blew off the appointment.  We thought that they would have eased up after a while, but here we almost two years later and nothing has changed. 

[ForeverDad]

Welcome back.  I'm glad you and your husband have been setting good examples of stability and normalcy for the children.

It is not unusual for a parent with BPD to treat children differently.  It's also not unexpected for the children to have different ways of dealing with the stressful situation.

I recall that Richard Warshak in his book Divorce Poison emphasized that Validation is very important for the children.  If you see them make observations that are spot-on then validate what they've observed and help them to be objective and draw the correct conclusions.  That training and guidance will last them a lifetime.

Perhaps others here can help with suggestions to guide the children toward personal solutions and willingness to resume counseling.  I'm thinking it would be best to focus on them and their good relationships for now.  Their mother is dysfunctional and so was that relationship.  Perhaps at least for now let that fade into the background and focus on more positive things as well as the here and now?

Has their mother been causing any legal problems?

[Matt]

How old are your stepkids?

Do they live with you, or on their own?

[ForeverDad]

Part of validation is that we don't push the children too hard to do things that make sense in normal relationships but are harmful for them with a history of conflict.  If contact with their mother causes issues, then pull back and see if there's some balance that can be reached.  While you don't want to be seen as discouraging contact with their other parent, and you won't do that, you still have to find some solution or resolution that works for them.

We had SD in therapy for a while to try and help her work through her issues with her mother, but she asked to stop going and we didn't see any progress.

Perhaps it is best just to try counseling without a particular goal specified?  No pushing for immediate results, just let her move at her own pace and comfort level.  Clearly contact with her mother is a hugely sensitive trigger for her, so just general counseling for her would be gradual improvement in her overall life and maybe she could address her issues with her mother at a much later time (if ever).  While her father's comments were probably fair and logical, they didn't have the right impact, the past emotional hurt was just too much for her.  Just lay a foundation of trust and objectivity and maybe some day she'll be willing to peel back the layers of issues.

[try2cope]

Welcome back.  I'm glad you and your husband have been setting good examples of stability and normalcy for the children.

It is not unusual for a parent with BPD to treat children differently.  It's also not unexpected for the children to have different ways of dealing with the stressful situation.

I recall that Richard Warshak in his book Divorce Poison emphasized that Validation is very important for the children.  If you see them make observations that are spot-on then validate what they've observed and help them to be objective and draw the correct conclusions.  That training and guidance will last them a lifetime.

Perhaps others here can help with suggestions to guide the children toward personal solutions and willingness to resume counseling.  I'm thinking it would be best to focus on them and their good relationships for now.  Their mother is dysfunctional and so was that relationship.  Perhaps at least for now let that fade into the background and focus on more positive things as well as the here and now?

Has their mother been causing any legal problems?

Our gut feeling is to leave everything alone and let them continue to enjoy their life, but with the way it's going, there's no hope for improvement.

The mother hasn't caused any legal problems.  She hasn't contacted the court, although in the beginning she threatened to and told my husband she would tell the court he turned them against her.  But it was just an empty threat because deep down she knows he didn't.  She refuses to pay her court-ordered child support that's based on an old schedule and is under $100 a month, but we are not pursuing it because we believe that it was one of the reasons why she has kept her distance.  If he was to go back to court to file for full custody and the corresponding child support, we are absolutely positive she would move back and try to get back into the kids's lives for the wrong reasons.

[try2cope]

How old are your stepkids?

Do they live with you, or on their own?

My SS is 11 and my SD is 14.  They live with us full-time.

[try2cope]

Part of validation is that we don't push the children too hard to do things that make sense in normal relationships but are harmful for them with a history of conflict.  If contact with their mother causes issues, then pull back and see if there's some balance that can be reached.  While you don't want to be seen as discouraging contact with their other parent, and you won't do that, you still have to find some solution or resolution that works for them.

We had SD in therapy for a while to try and help her work through her issues with her mother, but she asked to stop going and we didn't see any progress.

Perhaps it is best just to try counseling without a particular goal specified?  No pushing for immediate results, just let her move at her own pace and comfort level.  Clearly contact with her mother is a hugely sensitive trigger for her, so just general counseling for her would be gradual improvement in her overall life and maybe she could address her issues with her mother at a much later time (if ever).  While her father's comments were probably fair and logical, they didn't have the right impact, the past emotional hurt was just too much for her.  Just lay a foundation of trust and objectivity and maybe some day she'll be willing to peel back the layers of issues.

Good point about the validation.  I never thought about it that way before.  I think that's what I'm doing.  I worry about it but their father feels that there's no hope for a relationship as long as she not getting consistent and constant help.  A limited or no relationship is better than a harmful one.  We have told the kids that any time they want to see their mother, we will do any and everything to accommodate it, but they just need to tell us. 

I think the way I wrote my original post was confusing. My SD didn't have a problem with her father during the group session, their mother did.  She accused the therapist of siding with my husband because he allowed my husband to speak and give his side. 

We've thought about putting her back into therapy, but we had her there for almost a year and she still didn't make much progress in regard to the mother.  He was also helping her with organizational skills and general and some sessions didn't even deal with her mother.  She is the type of child that would rather not deal with a situation and that's how's she is dealing with her mother.  But I feel like we should do something.  Maybe putting her back in will eventually help. 

[Matt]

So... . a few thoughts... .

By the way, mine are S15 and D17, plus two adult stepkids I treat as my own.  The youngest were 8 and 10 when we separated, so we've been through quite a bit of drama.  They're doing very well now.

I think the right counselor for the kids is a really good idea.  Maybe worthwhile sitting together with the kids and the counselor at first, one or two sessions, to openly discuss why therapy is worthwhile for them - not because there's something wrong with them but because they are dealing with some stuff most kids don't have to deal with, and it's hard, and the counselor is someone they can talk with, who is objective and understands how families work and don't work, and she can be a good resource for them.

After that, she'll probably want to meet with each kid individually.  It's good to talk about objectives - the purpose for seeing a counselor - but maybe not good to set arbitrary expectations.  It's a marathon, not a spring, and the kids can probably benefit little by little from having the right person to talk to, but nobody should expect that things will be "fixed" in a week or a month or a year... .

One goal might be "reconciliation" between each child and their mom, but on their terms - what will make it good for the kids, not what does Mom want.  They may be able to learn how to state their needs, and I think that's huge - a kid that can tell each parent what she needs from them, and hold firm to it, can get back some power over the situation, and not be a feather on the wind.

And the other big part of what they might learn is acceptance - understanding that their mom has a problem, and isn't getting the help she needs, so she probably will continue to have that problem, and her behavior probably won't get much better.  It's not fun to be told that you can't fix things, and the kids may act our or grieve their loss - not losing what's real, but losing the hope that their mom will change - so things might get worse before they get better.  But that may be a necessary process so they can be healthy adults.

[livednlearned]

We've thought about putting her back into therapy, but we had her there for almost a year and she still didn't make much progress in regard to the mother.  He was also helping her with organizational skills and general and some sessions didn't even deal with her mother.  She is the type of child that would rather not deal with a situation and that's how's she is dealing with her mother.  But I feel like we should do something.  Maybe putting her back in will eventually help.

I find that my son's issues (he's 12) show up most in how he deals with peers. A really skilled therapist will focus on patterns and interactions because that's ultimately what matters, and not just because they are in their teen years. For example, S12 is not very assertive because he didn't see me model it much in the home. He saw bullying, and is very sensitive to it, and has a bit of a persecution complex with friends. He needed a lot of help from a therapist making sense of what kids were doing, and finding strategies to help him cope. Focusing on peers was a bit of a decoy, but it allowed the T to get to the core injuries.

I also found that it was important for me to sit with S12 and the T for 5 or 10 min. Sometimes things will happen during the week, and I'll sit in the room with both of them and share what happened and what I thought. "S12 handled this issue with a peer in a really good way. This is what happened." Or "N/BPDx wrote an email to S12 and to me, and I found it really confusing. First I was hurt, and then I wondered how that made S12 feel. I asked him about it, and he said xyz, and I said abc." Then I let the two of them talk. I always tell S12 that it helps to have a grown up he trusts, who he can talk to about complex things. That when there is conflict like the kind we experienced, it's important to have a neutral person to talk to, who cares about him.

Teen years are hard for kids, as you no doubt know! Your SD may reach a point where she is ready to look at this stuff more closely. If she isn't ready, the best alternative may be to model healthy behavior for her. Splitting her mom might be how she prefers to manage this relationship, but the healthiest way to deal is to learn good boundaries and how to assert herself. She's a kid right now and a little more at her mom's mercy, so maybe that's why she's choosing no contact. When she's older and can exercise more autonomy, tho, she'll need other skills to help her manage.

That's why I think therapy is good, even if she isn't ready to deal head-on with her mom. She'll learn important skills that help her throughout her life, with family and friends and bosses and co-workers.

[PinkieV]

DH and I have told both my SS's that they need to figure out what relationship they want with their uBPDmom, and learn how to set boundaries, all with our help of course. First we told SS18 that he did not have to speak with her if we did into want to (he was 17 at the time). Second, we enforced calling times with SS13, after dinner and homework, twice a week. He's pretty cool with her right now, as she will yell at him or insinuate things to purposely try to make him feel bad. We encourage letters and cards so he's communicating on his own terms. It's a constant balancing act, but they're better for it.