Taken time away to reflect... I have a rather radical acceptance.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

After repeated choices to expose myself to people with narcissistic tendencies... . time spent here, and in private therapy... . realising my codependent traits and the learnt origin of Mt innate desire to fix and be there for broken people... . I have come to a conclusion.  I appreciate this may well be temporary... . I have been challenged before... . and I have listened and shifted opinion after careful consideration.  I hope my post is thought provoking and entices good debate

I have come to the fundamental understanding that humans are herd animals. ... . we like to conform... . we want to be accepted by others... . it pleases us... . lessons can be learnt here... and in other places that it's very important to believe in ourselves and our wishes and desires... . "What someone else thinks of you is none of your business"... . agreed. yet we are still social animals.

I have observed that the current dynamic of our culture is being driven by the very personality disorders we constantly talk about here. It is obvious that people with psychopathic, narcissitic, sociopathic and borderline disorders use members of the herd to fight their way to the "top" of our society.  They find positions of power and dictate our food intake, our political affiliations, our music preferences and our religions.  They say one thing... . then when they have power... . They behave opposite... . and we waste energy criticising them... . After all... . we put them there... . isn't this identical to the relationships we chose?... .

I have, in the past, suggested to members they resist from attempting to expose shocking behaviour from these disordered personalities... . best to move on and build a better life... .

I'm challenging this now.  I believe these people are a cancer amongst the herd.  What do you notice about most codependent members here? To me it seems they are loving, caring (to a fault)... . often have caring type professions or animals they love. ... . I like people like that!

When we look at global corporations, political parties, abusive cult religions. ... They are fronted by individuals who "know" best... . generally under the guise of profit.

They are the very A holes we have been in relationships with. They are self serving, they use and abuse those around them as commodities, not sentient beings.

Why are we so fearful of exposing them. ... . and excluding them from our herd of humanity?... .

If we stand together. ... . They have no voice. ... . What do we have to lose?... . Their approval?... . no its more complex than that... . They have manged to tell US the agenda we should love by via the media... . so if we step out of the current accepted norm of child pop star borderline porn we are frumpy or boring.  This is bs... . we are being fed a lie. ... .

I ask a simple question... . when did narcissism and borderlines become our children's role models?... . we know who they are. Why aren't we resisting this?

This is posted on the leaving board because I hope that those struggling to get past their perceived "loss" fully understand what they were trying to be part of... .

[Newton]

After repeated choices to expose myself to people with narcissistic tendencies... . time spent here, and in private therapy... . realising my codependent traits and the learnt origin of Mt innate desire to fix and be there for broken people... . I have come to a conclusion.  I appreciate this may well be temporary... . I have been challenged before... . and I have listened and shifted opinion after careful consideration.  I hope my post is thought provoking and entices good debate

I have come to the fundamental understanding that humans are herd animals. ... . we like to conform... . we want to be accepted by others... . it pleases us... . lessons can be learnt here... and in other places that it's very important to believe in ourselves and our wishes and desires... . "What someone else thinks of you is none of your business"... . agreed. yet we are still social animals.

I have observed that the current dynamic of our culture is being driven by the very personality disorders we constantly talk about here. It is obvious that people with psychopathic, narcissitic, sociopathic and borderline disorders use members of the herd to fight their way to the "top" of our society.  They find positions of power and dictate our food intake, our political affiliations, our music preferences and our religions.  They say one thing... . then when they have power... . They behave opposite... . and we waste energy criticising them... . After all... . we put them there... . isn't this identical to the relationships we chose?... .

I have, in the past, suggested to members they resist from attempting to expose shocking behaviour from these disordered personalities... . best to move on and build a better life... .

I'm challenging this now.  I believe these people are a cancer amongst the herd.  What do you notice about most codependent members here? To me it seems they are loving, caring (to a fault)... . often have caring type professions or animals they love. ... . I like people like that!

When we look at global corporations, political parties, abusive cult religions. ... They are fronted by individuals who "know" best... . generally under the guise of profit.

They are the very A holes we have been in relationships with. They are self serving, they use and abuse those around them as commodities, not sentient beings.

Why are we so fearful of exposing them. ... . and excluding them from our herd of humanity?... .

If we stand together. ... . They have no voice. ... . What do we have to lose?... . Their approval?... . no its more complex than that... . They have manged to tell US the agenda we should love by via the media... . so if we step out of the current accepted norm of child pop star borderline porn we are frumpy or boring.  This is bs... . we are being fed a lie. ... .

I ask a simple question... . when did narcissism and borderlines become our children's role models?... . we know who they are. Why aren't we resisting this?

This is posted on the leaving board because I hope that those struggling to get past their perceived "loss" fully understand what they were trying to be part of... .

[goingtostopthis]

I hear what you are saying and I totally understand your anger.

                                             This is my third relationship with this type and Im beginning to think it's me. I think its scary because I think its a reflection of where our society is going. The "family" hardly exists anymore where a person can grow up normal.  Id like to say I just waisted 6 months of my precious time and energy on a person who claimed to want a future with me only to bash it all away in one hour over a stupid argument that  normal healthy people would have resolved in ten minutes. Why?  because they would have empathy for each other and understanding. Not distorted thinking and self centeredness.   Its a sickness and there is too much of it. These People like to play with other people like they are their personal action figure toys to tie into knots as much as they want and to be justice fied while they are doing it.     

[Newton]

going to stop this. ... . Thankyou for your thoughts

I think I am well past anger... . my post is about action... . the transition between desire. ... procrastination. .and doing. ...

On this site in the past, self confessed narcissists/borderlines have posted on boards. This has triggered various reactions amongst members... . Senior members have involved themselves in the thread and reminded members that responding to the provocative nature of triggering posts is feeding the drama... . plus they have instructed the innapropriate that their contributions are not welcome here... . and better placed elsewhere... . This is the crux of my point.

Why aren't we doing this daily... . in our social context?

Ie... . "we can see who you are... . its not welcome here... . There are other places for you"... .

That can be done with kindness. ... politeness... . and absolute certainty we are doing the right thing for the benefit of our community... .

[seeking balance]

Hey Newton,

Long time no see... . how's it going?

I have to say, I am kinda confused by your post... . help me out.

Cheers,

SB

[Newton]

Hey SB... . good to hear from you ... . things are going well... .

What would you like to know?

How can I help with your confusion?

[seeking balance]

Hey SB... . good to hear from you ... . things are going well... .

What would you like to know?

How can I help with your confusion?

I don't understand what you are saying/asking - especially how it relates to detaching... . I am confused by the discussion you are looking to have I guess.

[Newton]

I am saying that I have taken time away from focusing on my own immediate distress and looking for validation of similar feelings on this board to attempt to look at the bigger picture... .

I hope my comments can assist those on the leaving board to appreciate the futility of what they were trying to achieve. ...

I understand my comments may be just as appropriate on the "taking personal inventory" board... . perhaps they could be in both... .

(Not asking for special privileged favours... . I understand whatever I write is governed by the powers that be... . within the guidelines of this site)

My fundamental point is that people who exhibit narcissistic tendencies... . regardless of the probably tragic circumstances that delivered them there are statistically, anecdotally unlikely choosing or incapable of choosing to get help.  If we look at the dynamic of this site... it is guiding members to make an individual choice. Choose to stay and learn the tools to cope and make our 50% better... . or choose to leave and use fantastic tools to cope with detachment.

My current position is a third way. What if we choose to detach... . without  anger and a desire for personal revenge to satisfy our ego... . but we do both... . expose a disordered person... . let others know... . for the sake of preserving the herd who want to behave in a decent manner for the common good... . AND get on with our lives.

I believe this can come from a place of kindness and love... . rather than resentment and anger... . This way we preserve the "kind" genes in our society... . and isolate the destructive ones.

If one studies eugenics. ... . They seem to be psychopaths. ... . yet they are only a few thousand... .

How about the billions who are kind, caring and live on a subsistence hand to mouth daily existence say "NO" ... .

[love4meNOTu]

Hi Newton

I didn't protect my ex husband with BPD at all. All of his abuse was brought out into the light. And like a good little cockroach, he scurried under the nearest rock.

I told my therapist, my parents, my coworkers. I called his mother initially when I was terrified, he was raging, and I didn't know what to do. I thought he was going insane.

She told me that my marriage problems were my own. Right... . I have two children here who are watching a man abuse their mother. Right.

I called the police when I was afraid of him, so they know too.

I divorced him, and am getting on with my life.

He was engaged a few weeks after our divorce...

so the cycle begins again.

And nothing I've done can change that.

[seeking balance]

thanks for elaborating - I think I am following you.

Staying tools to set boundaries and bigger picture of life working with people rather than against them - even if that means saying no, am I close to understanding what you mean?

Your post reminds me of I Hate You, Don't Leave Me - where he talks about how we are creating a borderline society - did you read that?

[Newton]

Love4me. ... . I understand your behaviour... . totally... . we try to scream at the world at the injustice... . generally they won't listen because our borderline partners are so convincing and we have a been conditioned to/accepted a victim role... .

What I am suggesting is personal satisfaction that we did the right thing... . regardless of consequence... . be it your religious, social or moral conviction... . it was about shouting "this isn't right"... .

It doesn't matter who hears you... . or the consequence... . you are not doing it for gain... . you did it because it's the right thing to do... . and  it's not healthy to have people who behave that way around us... .

[love4meNOTu]

Yes, I quite agree.

When the abuse started happening my first reaction was to get the heck away from it, from him.

That was the instinct I needed to listen to. So, if anything I post can help any person being abused I hope like hell it does. I know I did the right thing for me and my boys.

Listen to your instincts. They are right. NO one should be abused by their partner.

I don't know why this post triggered me so much, I apologize.

L

[Newton]

Oh my... . no need to apologise! I have exposed myself to seeking balance... . I knew it would happen... . I want my current thoughts challenged! this is why we are all here! ... . to learn from each other and achieve better understanding

[ShadowDancer]

Being a bit of a social observer I am not confused by this post at all. It is a very legitimate observation. My comment to this posted socially conceptual observation is that this is not something new. Look back in history to Julius Caesar, Mad hatter Caligula, Napoleon Bonaparte, Marie Antoinette, ad infinitum to our current coiffed and manicured narcs without a hair out of place like the Orange John Boner who demands to be called BAynor... . (he is still a boner to me)... . Whats to be done, anarchy, public floggings... . perhaps beheading?  

The truth is, for me as I see it, the sixth great extinction is evident, apparent, and unavoidable. The scales have tipped... . the mad masters of the corporations have won and we are as a species... . relegated to living in a garbage dump of our own detritus and essentially doomed in the name of profit. Of course because of my own interpretations and understandings of individual psychological organization that are somewhat universal among the humans we choose to ignore the obvious. (The Id does not accept the end of self let alone the whole)

This down fall has been in the works for some time. Perhaps if we had a clue of what the future portended for us at the dawn of the industrial revolution we may have saved ourselves as a collective thinking unit, there may have been a small chance of survival... . but alas as I say... . it is now too late as we have not learned to think collectively in a rational self preserving way. Each man for himself eh?

So what to do? Attachment feeds individual suffering, detachment nourishes spiritual freedom. For me I'm going to attend to this one spiritual opportunity and to live, laugh, and love! And... . as best I am able... . be of some assistance to my fellow travelers.

[Newton]

SB... . I understand your current position... . how about a third way of working with people who share our values of kindness, respect and love... . and rejecting people who act with deceipt... . anger, projection and hate... . isn't that healthy?

[ShadowDancer]

SB... . I understand your current position... . how about a third way of working with people who share our values of kindness, respect and love... . and rejecting people who act with deceipt... . anger, projection and hate... . isn't that healthy?

For me no. To do that I would have to be preoccupied and attached. I am only responsible for, and answer to, the reflection in my own mirror.

Oops that ^ reads SB not SD... . I thought that question was for me. My bad.

[musicfan42]

I have come to a conclusion.  I appreciate this may well be temporary... . I have been challenged before... . and I have listened and shifted opinion after careful consideration.  I hope my post is thought provoking and entices good debate

You're entitled to your opinion Newton and if someone doesn't like it, then tough... that's their problem. I don't think you should automatically concede to their point. Surely, it should be about whether they have a well-reasoned point as opposed to trying to be "nice" all the time?