Minimal contact working for us

[qcarolr]

My BPDDD27 has been living homeless again for about 3 weeks. My dh and I believe that her choice to avoid her probation, and the warrants for violation that are now out there for her, is not a solution to her life. We have shared this with her is several ways, including cooperation with the authorities. I am actually glad that DD is keeping her location unknown to us.

She was angry in her call the first week, asking for help in finding her lost/stolen phone-food-clothes the next week, seeking reassurance of our love this past week. I believe she is with a new person this week as she is on a different phone number when she calls. I have been able to be direct with her about our financial support only being available if she turns herself in - phone account and weekly funds for her personal needs while in jail.

She says "I am almost ready". This could be true - or this is what she thinks I need to hear in order to talk with her in a caring way. She will always be a puzzle to me - I have told her of my struggle to step into her shoes and see things from her perspective.

And I see this changing. Not that I will change my boundary about her not being on our property, not seeing gd8, or any other financial support outside outside of jail. Today I can feel her frustration, pain, sense of betrayal and abandonment. This is based in her truth that she has done nothing to deserve any of the charges, therefore, none of the consequences are valid.

What she seems blinded to are that these consequences are beyond anyone's control other than the court. She has been convicted of the DWAI by a jury, she pleaded guilty to the harassment and no-contact violations. The sentences will not go away without her acceptance of the conditions of her sentences. There are four cases, four warrants. And I have shared that she was indeed harassing her exbf, just as she has harassed everyone in her circle of care for years. Dh pressed charges once when she was 17 -- no change in DD came from that. Dh and I ended up in 12 months of family therapy that the counselor had made voluntary for DD! And now at 27 her exbf pressed charges to get her out of his face before he blew up and assaulted her. That is DD's pattern under the influence of the black cloud of mental illness and substance use -- to push the other over the edge until she has relieved herself of all personal responsibility. This has been her pattern since before age 2 -- push away the very person she needs the most in that moment.

Here is a link to a thread about Object Constancy. I really really like the quote from Gunderson from Skip near the beginning of this thread. I have clearly seen "The 3 Levels of Emotions found in Borderline Personality" with DD many times.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70884.0

For me, as long as DD refuses to participate in treatment she will be stuck in this loop. I have a very deep sadness about this, accepting at last that any impact from me is minimal to get her bumped off this roller-coaster. And I have given everything I possibly can to have an impact on her for all of her 27 years.

So I am focusing on some personal areas where I am starting to feel passion in my life. Dh is sad that he is not in the middle of this. Alas, it is an internal process for me right now supported by friends in my faith community. Dh is barely on the fringe of this, though he is supportive of the peace that I find here.

GD8 is doing really well. She has responded well to the Adderall for her ADHD. She has gained in so many areas of her life in the past 2 months. Advanced 8 levels in her reading that was stagnant for the past 9 months. Making new friends at school. Talking clearly about what she needs. Telling her stories clearly about what she fears so she can begin working more diligently in her therapy with these traumas.

The adderral does push her mood - greater aggression in the evening. Thankfully a small increase in the meds she takes for her anxiety and PTSD help with this. So much sadness that I did not protect her better. I did not know. I was locked in the belief that I could facilitate the bond between her and DD. My own therapy, with  a personal T and with gd's T, is helping me see where my own attachment and loss issues throughout my life have impacted how I relate to my girls, DD and gd.

So I feel lots of progress with the distance from DD. I desire to keep on this path. DD is a grown up woman and has to manage her grown up life day by day. My task is to share that I love her with my whole heart and be direct with her about my truths. I do want to find a way to validate her truths as real for her, even though they are so opposed to mine.

Lots to ponder here. Thanks for listening. You are all in my thoughts and prayers, even when I am not here reading your stories.

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[six]

QC

My heart goes out to you. 

Thanks for the update. 

it sounds like after all the trauma you have experienced, you have found a place of balance for yourself.

I hope to hear good news from you soon.

-6

[lever.]

It is good to hear from you qcr. Your posts have been a real example to me in the thoughtful way you approach very difficult situations and your compassion and care for your daughter. You truly have done everything possible.

Wishing you, your daughter and all your family the best

[MammaMia]

qcr

You are a very strong woman.  You have reached a point where your dd needs to stand on her own two feet.  I applaud your decision for the sake of the rest of your family, especially your gd who is very lucky to have you in her life providing normalcy, stability, and love.   

Do not forget about taking care of yourself through all of the drama and trauma.  You deserve to be happy as well.

Wishing you comfort and peace.

[Verbena]

qcr, it's good to hear from you.  You have had so much strength for so long.  It sounds like you are in a good place now. I will continue to keep you in my prayers.

[qcarolr]

Yesterday evening was very difficult for dh and I. It feels like turning my back with so little love in my actions while my heart is breaking. I feel so stuck in a cleft in a cliff.

DD text about 6:30. Sick, bad infection near ear, lots of pain. Can I take her to urgent care or ER. I was just coming in with groceries and putting some food on table. I texted if she had somewhere to go after -"well maybe". Texted "where are u - what city". Then she texted "I am getting dropped off at the house". YIKES. She cannot come here at all. She was at the park a block from our house then to wait for me. I left with food on my plate and groceries all around the kitchen.

The only way to be with her is to be detached and quiet. I know if I show any feelings at all the risk of just bringing her home is too great. She did have two abscesses - one by her ear and one on her belly. The more questions the doc/nurses asked the more irritable DD got about my not taking care of her.

I tried to remain quiet, any comment met with a negative comment to the care giver. I wanted to scream out -- DD you are the one that got kicked out of detox 4 weeks ago with another infection. You are the one that has refused treatment and therapy while we paid for you to trash out 4 motel rooms with your homeless 'friends'. That have stolen all your stuff. Take some responsibility and get your life moving!

When she said "so why are you here", I said I don't know. And I left. It was snowing outside - called dh - he told me "she is in pain, we are in pain, come home so we can talk".

So I went home, got gd in shower and ready for bed, packed a couple bags with clean clothes for DD (she looked awful and had very little with her). Dh took it to her at ER and returned home. She called me sobbing - how can I carry all this. I said ask for a taxi voucher or something to get to a friends. SHe sobbed I have no friends.

I had to hang up and turn my phone off. She tried to call 4 more times, then nothing after that.

I have not made any contact to her, only answered when she calls me. I don't know how to love her in all this. She refuses to go to jail and face her probation violations. She refuses to do probation.

I pray she stays alive.

We cannot allow DD's neediness and pain to drag us underwater. I hope she is not alone today. I cannot contact her to ask.

Her other indirect request - she got a new smartphone on 24 month plan (she lost the one on our family plan and we are not replacing it). She needs to pay the first monthly bill soon. She REALLY LIKES IT. I did not even respond. I knew she was wanting me to offer to pay for this.

Yuck.

Dh is buying a covered cargo trailer, that he can use for other stuff later, to store her stuff in. We are re-purposing her room for a project room. It will cost about what 2 years of a storage unit would, but he is not paying out anymore for her. He really was in pain, and wanted to just toss all her stuff into the field behind our house. I want to hug all of it to my heart and cry. Guess we each cope in our own ways. So we hugged each other instead after gd asleep.

qcr

[MammaMia]

qcr

My heart is breaking for you right now. 

We always wonder when the madness will end, don't we?  We have all suffered so much at the hands of this cruel disorder ... . our children, our families, ourselves.  Some days there is just no comfort for all of the pain.

God bless you and your h and keep you safe and strong.  Please know we all care about you.

[vivekananda]

Hi qcr  

I remember when I first met you and was struck by your determination to come to grips with the trauma in your life, how far you have come! I hope you are reassured with that knowledge, because I am immensely reassured by your example.

Those of us with children with BPD come to learn to accept that our life isn't going to be the way we want it. We want our children to live a normal life and to be happy. We come to learn that we cannot solve their problems for them, kiss where it hurts and make it all better. Our challenges are different and there are many of us, when we face these challenges together, we find support and strength to continue on. That's how I see it anyway.

I am strengthened and supported by your journey and learning and by the shared examples of others here too.

sending you and yours lots of positive energy,

Vivek

[mggt]

Dear qcr. Sending you hugs and prayers no matter what they do how old they get we never stop loving and hurting for them god bless

[swampped]

Dear qcr:          You are doing the right thing, and I pray for strength for you and dh to be able to let your dd struggle on for a bit.  She needs to hit bottom, as you well know, and you have to let that happen.  But oh, the pain!  Please know you are in my thoughts and prayers.  February is almost over.  Maybe with spring will come some clarity and peace for your dd.  In the meantime, stay stong!   Swampped

[peaceplease]

qcr,

   You remain in my prayers.  Praying for your dd to give up and turn herself in.  She had ample opportunities, and you gave her your all.  I hope that you can let go.  I know that the call that she was in pain and wanted to go to ER was a tough one.

Praying for your peace.  Peace for your dh and gd. 


peaceplease

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

I did not know where to turn for comfort and support last night. Choosing to come here today was so very much the best choice. You all really 'get it'. How much I can love my DD and how detached I am able to become so she can learn what she needs to learn. And to accept, radically accept that it is just as likely she will not learn and it is she will learn. At least for now.

PEACE. That has been my search - my written down life goal - since first coming to bpdfamily in 2009. And letting go of DD. Plus raising gd in a healthy environment.

Tonight, I am able to breath again. Seems like I was holding my breath for about 24 hours. My face was even looking a little blue!  So I am clearing out DD's room. This feels good to me. To wash her piles of clothing and blankets. To set aside her special trinkets, books, papers, stuffies. They will all get put in tubs for the little 6'x10' trailer we are getting. It can sit in our backyard until she needs her stuff. Dh can drive to meet her anywhere if she wants to go through it.

Somehow going with dh and gd to look at this trailer for sale helped me tonight. Settled something in me. Gave me back a bit of peace.

Thank you my friends for being here today when I needed you most.

qcr

[lever.]

All I can send is heartfelt support and prayers. I have learned so much from you but it must be so difficult for you. I hope that your daughter is taken to a safer environment soon

[yogablue]

Stay strong qc, my heart breaks for you and your family. I am pleased you have found some peace.  I can so relate to you, as my motto for years has been that I want a peaceful life.  We love our kids, but they can break our hearts.  It is wonderful that you are creating a loving environment for your gd.

yogablue   

[crumblingdad]

Sorry you're going through such a difficult time.  I'm so glad we can be some semblance of support for you.  Letting go and detaching like that can be such a difficult process and particularly as long a road as you've been down and so involved you've been.

Keep focusing on peace it's a terrific goal and one that allows you to make yourself a priority which will give your gd the best possible care and strength.

 

[Thursday]

When we hurt we are seeing things from a vantage point that isn't always very helpful, big picture wise.

That's why someone else's viewpoint can often be just what we need. That's why we can (and do) help one another here.

I have told her of my struggle to step into her shoes and see things from her perspective.

And I see this changing. Not that I will change my boundary about her not being on our property, not seeing gd8, or any other financial support outside outside of jail. Today I can feel her frustration, pain, sense of betrayal and abandonment.

When our empathy is compromised by our sick loved-one's skewed perspective, sometimes all we can do is what you and your DH are doing. And do you see how quickly the door to your heart can reopen to "feel her" again? Don't let her negative-neediness wrap it's tentacles around your heart because they will indeed squeeze any remaining life out of you.

Those tentacles are just what has worked easiest and best so far because she hasn't really HAD TO FIND A BETTER WAY. Your boundaries can not only keep you safe they can, as you have begun to see, really open a door to reacquaint you with the loving feeling you are not only entitled to but strive so hard to keep. I know you have no idea which way your DD will go with this latest challenge but at least you are not having to sacrifice everyone else in the process. So sad my dear... . but true.

Your DD stays in denial about her role in all of this because she doesn't want to be hurtful to those she loves but she is so lost, SHE DOESN'T YET KNOW A BETTER WAY.

Keep hopeful. I keep seeing, over and over again in this life, when the scales tip they go in favor of good. We don't know when or why or exactly how, just have to trust it. And I think you already have that part down. 



Thursday

[qcarolr]

Well minimal contact, and my walking out of the ER, resulted in DD losing it on the phone to me (instead of in my face in the ER most likely). She was arrested and taken to county jail upon discharge from ER. She called me tonight very disoriented. Not even sure how long she had been in jail - mostly sleeping until tonight. She said she had been there 5 days, I said "well I saw you in hospital day before yesterday? Ah, then her memory started to work again.

She asked for money for shampoo etc. on her commissary account, phone account funded, and for us to write letters. Plus a picture of 'my daughter. you do not have a daughter or granddaughter'. She feels unloved.

I have been here before. Yet this time I am feeling relief for her. The past two weeks moving around have been hard on her. It will take about a month for meds. they will provide to take good effect. Maybe there will come a time she can believe that I cannot get her needs met. She has to reach out to professionals for this - ie. treatment and therapy.

I am hoping for at least 90 days for her. She will get treatment opportunities in jail - lots of them - if she can choose to participate. It is a very recovery/rehab focused facility. Very recovery/rehab focused court system. Hope they get it that probation is not an option that will work. It NEVER HAS --

Gotta go call Mexico. The daddy of my gs6 left messages asking about his son. Had to turn on international calling on my cell. We could not even answer his calls for some reason. This is DD's actual ex-hubby. Only lasted short time. They did have intention of being a family for this little boy -- just not in their reality. We stayed detached, he was in foster care at 5 mos. and adopted by foster parents at age 2. The process took too long. He is a happy kindergartner living in another state with a very loving extended family. I can see him on his mom's facebook. There is no direct contact since the adoption.

What an interesting and challenging life my family has. Trying to keep it all in perspective.

Thanks for all your prayers. I will start a new thread to update after her hearing on Wednesday.

qcr

[peaceplease]

qcr,

Oh, what a relief!   Thank God!  How awesome!  No more running for her!

Thank you for the update!  

Also, great to hear about your gs doing so well with his adoptive family.

[mggt]

Dear qcr, Great news please try and get some rest when you lay your head on the pillow at night you now have peace that she is safe , that is the worst time of the day I think .  Your a wonderful mom good luck 

[lever.]

Happy to hear that she is somewhere safe, hope you can relax a little

[MammaMia]

qcr

I agree with the others that your dd is now off the streets and will be cared for.  I know it is so very hard for you, but you must feel tremendous relief at the same time. 

Please take care of yourself.  Things have a way of working out for the best.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[qcarolr]

Yet, I allow phone calls. They are filled with anger. DD says, just talk with me, show you care. And then she brings up a sensitive topic. I just can't fine the words to be validating. I am too defensive.

No rest today. My T says limit my contact. Why is this so hard for me?

qcr

[Verbena]

qcr, this has all been excruciatingly painful for you.  You have tried and tried and given and given, but there is a limit.  Anyone who knows your situation can see just how much you love your daughter--except for your daughter herself.  You have to remember that people with BPD are like big buckets with giant holes in the bottom.  It doesn't matter how much you put in them, they are never full. 

I will continue to keep you in my prayers.

[peaceplease]

qcr,

Oh, qcr, the jail phone calls!  I did not have calls filled with anger, but they were constant pleading for one thing or another.    

Also, told my dd that she could not call me everyday.  And, she called several times a day.  She cried that she was going crazy and not to deny her calls.  I was the one who was angry, as she did it to herself.  Sometimes, I took more than one call.  I was surprised that she was allowed to call so much.  It reached a point where I told her that extra phone call I took meant minus a call the following day.

I know it is hard, but try to limit her calls.  Can you make a boundary with the phone calls and the topics that are too sensitive for you?  Please help qcr!  


peaceplease

[qcarolr]

I silenced my phone when she called while I was getting dinner. I am not going to answer until tomorrow evening. She has a hearing at the jail tomorrow afternoon.

The bond on the complaint I filed in September is $20,000. Wow. I guess she was right when she told me that 4th case was really bad. She just doesn't get it that her exbf could not be at our house, and she did not turn him away.

For me it is about her inability to take personal responsibility for the consequences of her actions. She does not believe she has done anything wrong so the consequences are not fair and should not apply. Speaking to her about any of this is futile. Yet she keeps bringing it up, and blaming me.

She refuses to accept that someone else can be an advocate for her. Only I can 'get it'. In some ways she is right. She does not understand how to work in the 'system'. Whether it is jail, disability, social services, housing... . She truly does not know the questions to ask or how to answer what she is asked. I do get this is part of her LD sometimes. I have watched it over and over.

This belief, whether accurate or not in the current situation, makes it really hard for me to step completely out of the game.

Example. I went to jail today to check her books before I put money in her commissary account. Everybody deserves to have a brush, shampoo and conditioner. Well there is a $780 fee still on her books from last fall that should have been removed. It should have never been charged. If I had not called booking and explained the story about this fee, and why it did not apply, they would have retained any monies I put on the books for personal care items. They did this with about $100 dollars last fall.  Dd does not know how to cope with this. And the jail staff are not very compassionate when she asks questions. They often do not want to share any info with me either. So I was somewhat surprised when they talked with me about this today.

So, I just cannot let her go entirely. I like to feel needed. I am just tired of hearing the same story about my part in the failures in her life. And I have no control over what she chooses to talk about, ask, or her feelings about any of this that she expresses to me.

So I am going to limit her to one call a day, or every other day. I have said this to her today. I will say it to her each time -- when I will take the next call. Dh and I have set a limit on the commissary money each month. I will write her a letter, then wait to get a reply back before I write another. (mine get there in a day, hers take a week to get back to me) I will not visit. I will not force gd to write to her a take a call.

I will look for joy being in my life each day, and turn my mind back moment by moment to the present moment and the next physical step I am to take. Being present. That is really all my God asks of me. To be present this moment. For me this goes beyond being mindful. And when it works, it is awesome for me. I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. BE PRESENT.

Prayers for me to be present are also appreciated. It does not always work.

qcr

[qcarolr]

And then I read another thread about how our pwBPD twist the black into white and back again to avoid taking responsibility.  I have to remind myself to allow things to settle for a bit -- she is still 'hot' -- and for her meds. to work on her panic.

Sadness is reading a letter from jail back in Dec2009 -- when we got the no contact order except for letters. And how her life has changed so little in this 5 years. Just different bf names along the way. Same ol' patterns.

She will be the same as long as she refuses treatment. I have to remember this. Harden my heart a bit against this to endure.

qcr

[qcarolr]

Frustrated with the court today. Checked with booking after DD hearing at jail. They show sentenced today to 1 year probation, back to PACE program. Not clear when she will be released to PACE. What is different so it will work now?

She has no place to stay and will be homeless again. We cannot pay for any more living quarters. We cannot pay for her new phone account, though I will get her info to check on it tomorrow when she calls.

Spoke to DD today. She was very tearful and wanting her psych meds. she is not getting. Her MRSA is better and she took her dressing and drain off this morning. She apologized for yelling yesterday. I apologized for not being a better listener. I was angry too. Said I would only accept one call a day. She borrowed some shampoo from another inmate and got to shower and wash her hair today.

Still struggling to figure out her commissary account. Have to call Home Dentention tomorrow to get fee removed from her account. It is $728 for detention that she was unable to do because she was in jail!

I know you all say to let her go entirely and rest. This does not lead to rest. It goes against my values of kindness, compassion and serving 'the least of these'.

Got a new book today for dh and I to read (he 'reads' by what I share - he does listen and discuss with me). "Parenting Adult Children: Real Stories... . " by Fred Schloemer, EdD.  I liked what I read in the excerpt at Amazon. Will let you know what I think. My guess that it is 'light' for our BPDkids. I am looking for support and validation in the choices ahead for us.

qcr

[peaceplease]

qcr,

I am confused.  They gave her one year probation and the PACE program?  Will they house for PACE program?  If not, that makes no sense.  Or, wasn't there an option that she could attend PACE like a work release while she was in jail, before?  But, then, if she is on probation then that does not help.  Poor qcr!

I hope you can get some rest.  

peaceplease

[lever.]

Oh no qcr! What are they thinking? I couldn't let my DD go entirely in that situation either, I would never rest and it would be worse than all the running around and angry calls. We just feel for you because you have done all that is humanly possibly and more.

People often say to leave them to experience the consequences of their behaviour so that they will learn ( and there is a place for that) but its horrible when they just don't learn from consequences and keep getting in the same messes over and over.

You know much more than I do about setting boundaries to protect yourself while still trying to support your DD.

Take care, I really hoped that while she was in a residential setting you would get some respite.

[MammaMia]

qcr

I am confused. Your dd27 was given 1 year of probation on a charge with a $20,000 bail?  Wasn't she already on probation last fall which made the incident with the bf a violation of that probation? 

I wonder if the System is being lenient by taking her BPD into consideration at sentencing, hence the PACE Program?  Of course, that still does not explain where she will live, and she must have a home address to be on probation.  Maybe a half-way house or other structured setting? 

It really does not seem like she is facing much in the way of legal consequences.