Need some logical reassurance desperately

[Allmessedup]

Ok so I am in a bad space and I need to work on me here after the whole game playing she did earlier.

But I have these thoughts that keep spiraling in my head and I need some reassurance that I can only get from you all right now.

My brain keeps going to what if she isn't BPD.  What if the problems we are having are my fault and if I work on them then things can have a chance of working out. 

So here is the laundry list of behaviors. 

Dx as BPD in her early teens but underwent intensive therapy for it (she is 50 now)

I get the silent treatment a lot over the last 3.5 years

Push bad pull behavior

Suicidal ideation to go as far as purchasing a gun the last blow up we had

Many periods of disassociation especially early on in our relationship

The cold "dead" eyes

Raging about things that seem ridiculous to me

Turning arguments around so that if I am upset about something then she ends up angry about something totally different

Telling me I said something that I know for a fact I did not say

Taking zero accountability

Lying

Constantly telling me she feels manipulated or controlled

Triangulation

Always always sick physically with no medical dx

I have seen DID in her... . Other identities that came out with no recollection of them after.

Blanking out

Always having some trauma or issue when I was with others away from her.  Like having a crisis when I left town to help my sister when she had a baby

There are so many others.

I think I just want to verify that these are not healthy reactions no matter what I did.

I know in my head this is true... . I just need to hear that others agree as well... .

Thank you!

[NoCRV]

Hi Allmessedup,

I have no doubt my ex has BPD but I can't diagnose her as so.  It does help me realize that these traits will not provide a healthy relationship whether she has BPD or not.

[buddy1226]

I go through the same drill. They are. I have no doubt mine is and it sounds like yours too. If what you read on these sites resonates with you you can rest assured that it would not if she were not borderline. I think we all wrestle with this. We want there to be a chance that we can get them to mirror us again. The idealization phase. That's how good it was. This is addiction. Plain and simple. I've been in a funk all week over my ex. I suggest going to meetings. I go to AA and you can substitute your ex's name for alcohol and understand. AA would frown upon that but in my case I had addiction issues with drink and drug many moons ago.

This will pass and I'm sorry. We've all been there.

[ScathednConfused]

Hi Allmessedup,

I was with a woman for 28 years that did not have any dx of behavioral issues, however she displayed many of the same symptoms you describe and several more that fit with traits of BPD. By the time our r/s dissolved she had me believing that "I" was BPD and the sole offender responsible for every problem (hers, ours, mine) that entered our marriage.

When she left I spent many weeks pondering the same issues as you, what if it was me, what if I fix these issues and our marriage will work again, what if... . So I went to therapy and continue to do the work and the more I do the more I can say that the problem was not solely me.

My T likes to ask me to use a reality check when I have these questions. When she would rage, was it disproportionate to the issue, is it possible for you to have been as bad as described and a rational person have not left earlier, did she accept any level of responsibility? With mine there was no acceptance, she was the victim--even when she was at fault--I was the one to blame.

One key feature is that you are seeking help and trying to understand the problem, what is she doing? Many BPD do not accept that they have a problem and as such have no need for therapy.

The bottom line is that whether she does, or does not, have BPD is irrelevant, you deserve to be treated with respect, you deserve to be with someone who loves you, you deserve to be accepted, none of which it sounds like you have so either way this is a better path for you.

Stay strong and believe in yourself, we are here for you.

SC

[191919179384613]

hey allmessed up!  

your experience sounds terrible and i'm sorry you had to go through it. that list is all too familiar. specially about the 'cold dead eyes'  

"Turning arguments around so that if I am upset about something then she ends up angry about something totally different" oh man, i can relate. sometimes at the end of a fight i'd be like wait... how did I end up apologising?    

i wrote something on another thread that I hope helps you gain perspective:

It helps for me me to look at the big picture. While I'm in an immense amount of pain right now, I keep seeing the upside- I don't have BPD! I am capable of a wholesome, loving, reciprocal relationship, and I am confident that I will find this in time. We can't omit optimism guys- we should be grateful that we are mentally healthy, and we are hurting so much because we CAN feel and recognise these emotions in a constructive way, and take steps to heal. Our BPD counterparts have no such luck.

ScathedandConfused this is an excellent point: 'The bottom line is that whether she does, or does not, have BPD is irrelevant, you deserve to be treated with respect, you deserve to be with someone who loves you, you deserve to be accepted, none of which it sounds like you have so either way this is a better path for you.'

I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you !

you are not alone   things will be ok  

[Tausk]

Hey AMU:

Sorry you're going through such a difficult time.  Most of the people on this board have exes who weren't even diagnosed.  You have one that even has a diagnosis.  So, you have more evidence that all of us do.

And no, she's not going to get better.  No you didn't cause it, cant' cure it, and can't control it.

Yes, you have your side of the aisle of issues, but even if you fix all your issues and are reborn the Buddha,... . it won't work.  

It doesn't work out for people on this side of the board.  Even for those with a partner wBPD who's deep into therapy and themselves deep into therapy and mindfulness about responses, the number of interactions that even find a truce is minimal.  Just go and read the stories on the undecided board.  See if they ring true to you.  That's your evidence.

And even wondering who is the crazy one, if she really had BPD... . these are natural responses.  Everyone on this board goes through those thoughts.  So having them only confirms that she does.  Partners of non-Disordered people don't go through this thought process.   But just because she is Disordered doesn't mean that it was all her fault.  We played our own part in the interaction.  

I had to accept that it was a fantasy. It never had a chance.  It was based on the mirror of a selfless abandoned child and the false self of a confused lonely child.  

It was never really real, except for the intensity of the moment.  The high of shooting up smack is real for the moment, but not after the high is over.   But at least heroin doesn't paint you black in a heartbeat, so in a way heroin is an easier addiction than what we have 

[Landslide2014]

You have awesome courage to post Allmessedup. I can relate to your inclination to take responsibility for all of it. That cycle has repeated for me for 20 years in my marriage. Just yesterday my T was exploring my childhood with me. Seems I learned at a very young age that if I was more responsible, better behaved, more efficient, less of a bother, that I could keep peace... . Save the alcoholic, keep my father from being abusive. I know now, but have to be reminded often that I didn't cause, can't control, can't change it. Looking at my FOO has helped me to realize that I carried these traits to my marriage. Talking it out with my T and support group helped me to realize that it was certainly not up to me to own ALL of it. Even if my H was healthy, it still should never be all me. What would you advise to someone who gave the same scenario to you... . If it wasn't you. Sometimes it helps to see it clearer when looking at someone else's situation.  Keep exploring. Trust the process. Be patient. I sense that you are on the right path.  One day at a time.

[seeking balance]

I get wanting a diagnosis or to know "for sure" if the ex is BPD... . I am pretty sure I posted very early on something to the effect that my T asked if I wanted to be happy or right and I was already so miserable that I just wanted to be right.

A wise member told me, "you lived it - you know - do you really need a diagnosis? Focus on your feelings SB."

My feelings of wanting to know - well, I was avoiding all the pain.  I loved her, I married her, I did back flips to the point of losing myself to make her happy and it was never enough.  Did  mess up sometimes, yep - but I am not the one who lied, cheated and destroyed everything around me and when asked her why, she said, "I want you to hurt as much as me".

It frigging hurts to open yourself up only to be completely idealized and then knocked off that pedistal - it is a long, hard, painful fall.

So, look in the mirror forgive yourself for your part and radically accept BPD or not, this woman got you at your core and then turned it upside down, all around and you are left here lost and confused.  Yes, you are lost and confused - but there is nothing you could have done differently.

Let me ask you this - if your best friend wrote this list you did - what would you say to her?

[Perfidy]

SB you rock. I surround my self with only people that think the way you write. Discussion and communication are fine arts. You rock.

[Allmessedup]

Thank you all so very much! 

Last night was a rough night for me but I did a lot of thinking during my quiet hours at work.

All of you said something that resonated with me.

And I came to a few conclusions from all of it.

I have a choice.  She can play all the games she wants but I don't have to participate.  She is now blocked from all my social media. Even silky ones like Instagram. I am entitled to my privacy.  She chose to walk away and that is a blessing in disguise for me but regardless she has no business knowing what I am doing saying or posting period.  I will not allow her to enter my life in any form.

Secondly she was diagnosed and BPD is not curable.  I did not self diagnose her.  But even if she was not diagnosed her actions and behaviors toward me are simply not right regardless of where they stem from.  Its not MY fault she responds in such a way regardless of what baggage I brought to the relationship.  I triggered her yes... . but I am not responsible for her response to that trigger.

If I saw any one I knew being treated the way she treated me I would tell them to get the f$@& out as fast as they could.

She herself in a moment of clarity told me that her reactions were not about me.  I need to remember that

She can't be healed.  That is sad.  I am still angry with her but I am also angry with myself for allowing the treatment she doled out for so long.  I am also angry with myself for longing for someone who tossed me aside like garbage.

But the fact is I am not garbage.  I matter and I deserve to be treated with respect from the people I allow in my life... . and that includes myself as well

When we talk about boundaries I always look at them in the perspective of other people.  But I find that I also need to put boundaries on myself.  Blaming myself, ruminating over my loss, even in my self control I need to establish my own boundaries. (Thank us sb for the ding dong repost on another thread)

She is afflicted with a terrible disorder that is no fault of her... nor me for that matter.  She can't cure it and for her at least the disorder leaves her to scared to even work on it.

I have my own baggage that was also not a result of something I did.  However I see it and while I am plenty scared I am also not too scared to work on it.  Big difference.

And the point I came to last night is that before I can truly work on me and my past FOO stuff I need to put the boundary up for myself that I will NEVER allow someone to treat me like that again. 

So I am done.  After so many recycles she is not going to change.  The relationship would just continue to spiral downward.

I can not forget what has happened to me.  I can not forget the relationship... . nor do I want to.  But I can learn from it and remember that I ALWAYS have the power to choose how I allow myself to be treated.

And I also need to remember that I am not doing this alone.  Guidance encouragement and wisdom are always just a few keystrokes away.

Thank you all so very much!

[Landslide2014]

Wow amu, that was amazing!  Your clarity and inspiration is a gift to me this am. Thank you for sharing. It's obvious that you spent a lot of time and have gone through a lot of pain toward this recovery process. Although the anger and sadness still present themselves, for me, more often than I would choose, I believe they have awesome healing powers if handled in a healthy way. I am grateful for the awareness and support to be able to see it that way. Keep up the good work. 

[Tausk]

Thank you all so very much!  

Last night was a rough night for me but I did a lot of thinking during my quiet hours at work.

All of you said something that resonated with me.

And I came to a few conclusions from all of it.

I have a choice.  She can play all the games she wants but I don't have to participate.  She is now blocked from all my social media. Even silky ones like Instagram. I am entitled to my privacy.  She chose to walk away and that is a blessing in disguise for me but regardless she has no business knowing what I am doing saying or posting period.  I will not allow her to enter my life in any form.

Secondly she was diagnosed and BPD is not curable.  I did not self diagnose her.  But even if she was not diagnosed her actions and behaviors toward me are simply not right regardless of where they stem from.  Its not MY fault she responds in such a way regardless of what baggage I brought to the relationship.  I triggered her yes... . but I am not responsible for her response to that trigger.

If I saw any one I knew being treated the way she treated me I would tell them to get the f$@& out as fast as they could.

She herself in a moment of clarity told me that her reactions were not about me.  I need to remember that

She can't be healed.  That is sad.  I am still angry with her but I am also angry with myself for allowing the treatment she doled out for so long.  I am also angry with myself for longing for someone who tossed me aside like garbage.

But the fact is I am not garbage.  I matter and I deserve to be treated with respect from the people I allow in my life... . and that includes myself as well

When we talk about boundaries I always look at them in the perspective of other people.  But I find that I also need to put boundaries on myself.  Blaming myself, ruminating over my loss, even in my self control I need to establish my own boundaries. (Thank us sb for the ding dong repost on another thread)

She is afflicted with a terrible disorder that is no fault of her... nor me for that matter.  She can't cure it and for her at least the disorder leaves her to scared to even work on it.

I have my own baggage that was also not a result of something I did.  However I see it and while I am plenty scared I am also not too scared to work on it.  Big difference.

And the point I came to last night is that before I can truly work on me and my past FOO stuff I need to put the boundary up for myself that I will NEVER allow someone to treat me like that again.  

So I am done.  After so many recycles she is not going to change.  The relationship would just continue to spiral downward.

I can not forget what has happened to me.  I can not forget the relationship... . nor do I want to.  But I can learn from it and remember that I ALWAYS have the power to choose how I allow myself to be treated.

And I also need to remember that I am not doing this alone.  Guidance encouragement and wisdom are always just a few keystrokes away.

Thank you all so very much!

[saitek]

"Turning arguments around so that if I am upset about something then she ends up angry about something totally different" oh man, i can relate. sometimes at the end of a fight i'd be like wait... how did I end up apologising?    

Oh my god that happens to me all the time... my BPDw used to be on a speech and debate team in highschool and college she knows how to make words work for her more so than me. She often leaves me spinning in a daze wondering how yet again I was convinced that I needed to apologize for something that she started.

It's hard to get clear of all the FOG and to think through the whys and hows but chances are very likely that you are not the sole problem.

I have not yet separated from my BPDw but I'm convinced that that is the course I need to take to be happy. I am beginning to steel my nerves and make my plans for the on coming storm. I envy those of you who have already been brave enough to break the cycle and forage ahead you are an inspiration to me and many others I'm sure... . a Bright beacon of light on the fog laden shoreline. Don't loose hope.