Splitting

[StarStruck]

Splitting is an example of Dissociation, or "Feelings Create Facts" - where for a person with a personality disorder, their feelings take priority over what the facts actually tell them.

If they experience a mood swing and suddenly feel good or bad about a particular person or situation, they can modify their opinions, memories or attitudes to be consistent those feelings, regardless of any apparent contradictions.

The bit in bold is new to me. I thought splitting was general thing about them thinking you're all good or all bad. The way this is put certainly gives me more understanding anyhow.

[StarStruck]

just making it up as they go along... . god! I'll be pleased for the rest

[Sitara]

The feelings = fact was a big eye opener for me too.  Finally I understood how she could have such a different memory of a situation where I knew I wasn't misremembering things.  It also made me see the futility in trying to change her mind.  I wasn't going to be able to change her mind when she felt it was the truth.  Makes it easier to stop from getting into arguments for me.

[StarStruck]

The feelings = fact was a big eye opener for me too.  Finally I understood how she could have such a different memory of a situation where I knew I wasn't misremembering things.  It also made me see the futility in trying to change her mind.  I wasn't going to be able to change her mind when she felt it was the truth.  Makes it easier to stop from getting into arguments for me.

It makes you wonder how we ever expressed ourselves and were heard properly? because if it infringed on a 'sensitive' area, the response would be made up to justify their weird perception to protect their self worth. (Christ that was a mouthful). I can see how this would make you distrust your own instincts when older, very dangerous. I don't know how this ties in but I read that children of said accused, can have a ridiculous amount of patience for things but that is actually detrimental depending on what the situ is. emotional exhaustion comes to mind there.

[Sitara]

It makes you wonder how we ever expressed ourselves and were heard properly?

I learned not to express myself from a very young age, for multiple reasons, one of which was that if I said something she didn't like, she would tell me I was wrong.

I don't know how this ties in but I read that children of said accused, can have a ridiculous amount of patience for things but that is actually detrimental depending on what the situ is.

I know I do this.  I would put up with it because I thought it was just normal behavior.

[lost and found]

Truth becomes a moving target when you grow up in this atmosphere! I never spoke up when I was a kid either, because mom would be personally offended if anybody disagreed with her. There was no room for opinion or anybody else's feelings or perception. When your choice is to shut up and sit in peace, or say anything and have someone start screaming at you, you shut up quick.

[StarStruck]

Truth becomes a moving target when you grow up in this atmosphere!

Hi lost and found, I find this comment profound

[lucyhoneychurch]

Truth is indeed a moving target or was in our FOOs.

I know I go sort of hot when I hear someone talk about "little white lies" or "half-truths" or anything that waters down reality and the truth.

I am a stickler for maybe being uncomfortable in my own skin now and saying what's what because so many years were spent in that wide-eyed OH CRAP trepidation that she was looking my way in fury - like Sam and Frodo dodging the Eye in Lord of the Rings.

[StarStruck]

Yeah have to say lucyhoneychurch, Truth is a really important thing to me too & getting to the root of things 

[PleaseValidate]

Wow. This is new to me too but makes total sense.

Since i reengaged w my BPDmo she is telling EVERY family story BACKWARDS to make herself appear hero or victim, i mean EVERY ONE! I was thinking of this more as a coping mechanism but i guess this is what disassociation is . . .

Thank you for sharing!

[missmyseester]

If they experience a mood swing and suddenly feel good or bad about a particular person or situation, they can modify their opinions, memories or attitudes to be consistent those feelings, regardless of any apparent contradictions.

Finally I understood how she could have such a different memory of a situation where I knew I wasn't misremembering things. 

Yes! Ths helps make sense of things. My uBPDsis is always twisting/changing how things really went down. I have wondered if she really believes what she says. Recently we had a huge fallout. She came to my house to talk about what had happened because I asked her to. She showed up and said she was "too upset" to talk about what had happened. She then accused me of hit and started criticizing me for having the day off and "doing nothing" (she had no way of knowing what I even did that day). I was understandably pissed so I then yelled for her to get the hit out of my house. She wrote me a letter this past January referencing that time saying "I didn't let her say two words before I started screaming at her". I was confused to whether or not she really believed that. She is always the damn victim! Ugh!

[missmyseester]

Oops... . fill in the blanks above with "crap" and "Frick"

[StarStruck]

Hi missmysister - That does sound a pretty classic example... .  &  .

 

[CrazyNoMore]

I remember a situation at work, where I KNEW my team was in the right, and the department flinging accusations at us was not dealing with the facts of the situation.  No matter how I presented the cold, hard facts, nothing would make a dent in the situation.  My boss pulled me aside and told me, "Look, I know you're right.  This isn't our screwup.  But the problem is, this is a case where perception is reality."

Man, my head imploded hearing that!  Because that, and what's been described here so far, was exactly what I grew up with up until I went NC.  The result is that now, I'm an obsessive fact-checker and recorder.  I come out of a meeting and I immediately send and email reiterating what was decided and who's responsible for what. People get annoyed, but I've been hung out to dry too many times to not do it.

The difference was, at work, it's about facts and figures and who did what.  At home, it was about my character; the very core of who I am.  And that was far more insidious.

[sanemom]

I hope you don't mind my asking this from the co-parenting board, but do you ever remember just going ahead and believing your BPD parent's recreations?  I ask this because my stepkids cite all of the BS recreations that their BPD mom tells them as if they can't even use their own critical thinking.  And they are teens…not young kids.

Two examples:

DSD stating that BPD mom did not live in same town as her and dad for a nine month period that BPD mom did indeed live close by.  BPD mom was not that involved in her life at that time, and DSD almost had me convinced I was losing it because I remembered that BPD mom lived close to us.  BPD mom had been telling DSD otherwise, and it was like DSD just started believing it (she was 12 at the time BPD mom lived in same city so again, not THAT young).  

The kids all three (14, 16, and 17) all telling DH that DH and BPD mom used to get along so well that they would go out to eat all the time during the exchanges.  :)H said that they went out to eat TWICE in 9 years after exchanges, but it is clear that BPD mom is telling the kids that all was peachy until I came into the picture.  And they seem to be buying this recreationist history... .

[Sitara]

I believed every word she said. You don't know any better when you've been raised in that situation - there's just no normal behavior to compare it to. Everything she said was stated as fact, she always presented things so convincingly and with so much certainty there was no reason to not believe her. She built herself a pedestal and I worshiped her. The flip side is that if you ever did question her or let her know you didn't believe her, you had to face her rage - screaming that I thought I was better than her or that I was calling her stupid or that I didn't trust her. So you learned to go along with whatever she said.

Have you looked into enmeshing?

I know I didn't start realizing there was anything wrong with my family until I started to see other families in college, and I didn't start really seeing things as really wrong with my family until I was close to 30, so those kids being those ages are still pretty young as far as seeing reality goes.

[StarStruck]

Hiya sanemom,

I'm sure I've mentioned stuff to other people growing up 'mom says x about x' and the balanced ones look at me like 'how/why/so?'. Their reaction made me think ... . hang yea ... . 'what a load of bull & I always knew it was bull'. I started to think 'so what?' to some stuff as I grew up... . of course that sort of attitude like Sitara mentioned doesn't go down well... . if you question/challenge or even don't look impressed by it - thats normally confusion as to why said in the first place.

what you mention sanemom is like brainwashing isn't it, to make the BPD feel better about situation/themselves. bizarre.

[StarStruck]

sanemom - (was going to add but the site went down). Perhaps we have the need/instinct to trust our parents and when growing up so do not see why they wouldn't be trustful and do whats in our interests, (especially because some BPD do have our interests at heart on the whole, or would very much seem to) so you take their word for things without the questioning, when you're young. You may give the disordered the same time of day as the 'non' parent (if there is one). All the v best with your trials with this  

[sanemom]

This is very eye opening.  They lived with their dad for most of their growing up years, and DSD17 had always fantasized about living with her BPD mom (waif).  The legal system here forced us to let her so we did.  Both she and her brothers have been exposed to "normal" and some questioning about the crazy lies they hear.

BPD mom makes huge empty promises to her and DSD gets excited about them; my DD will point out to DSD occasionally how these promises never came to fruition.  My DD is also a teen and gets very frustrated with her step siblings for being so blind, but she usually doesn't say much because it doesn't get her anywhere.  For instance, over a year ago, DSD was "given" driver's education as a birthday gift…it still hasn't  happened while my DD and DSS, both younger and living with us, have already been in driver's ed.  Instead of being mad at her mom for not following through with her promise, she gets mad at DD and DSS for getting driver's ed.  

Over Christmas there was a messed up situation about the visitation schedule, and the kids were all siding with BPD mom even though she wasn't following the agreement, and my DD got mad and told them, "You all just believe whatever BS your mom tells you.  You don't even THINK!"  Their BPD mom was picking them up early, got them to believe she was supposed to have them early, and we had to change our vacation plans so DD was really ticked off.

After it was clear that DSD did not remember that her BPD mom lived close by, we drove by BPD mom's old apartment complex.  BPD mom had not brainwashed the boys about this particular story so they were all "That's where Mom used to live!"  I watched DSD's face contort every which way as she suddenly started re-remembering.

BPD mom has also told the kids that DH beat her and other completely false stories about DH.  (she supposedly left him because he was beating her; of course, she left him with a toddler and two preschoolers bc that makes sense if he was violent) They used to believe her, but the stories we heard, we told them that they weren't true.  I am pretty sure the boys believe DH but who knows.  It is just nuts and feels like an uphill battle as she is so good at playing the victim, and she is mom, which seems to trump dad just because…

I must say, it's a little disheartening to think that we may have to wait until they hit 30 before they realize that they just can't believe everything they hear.  We actually make that a big deal in this house--tell them they can't believe everything they hear on tv, read on the internet, hear from people, etc.  We don't point out their BPD mom when we are talking about people (usually politicians... ), but hopefully someday they will connect those dots.

[Sitara]

They may realize earlier having another example of a healthy relationship in their lives - that's something I didn't have.  And it's not so much realizing that they can't believe everything they hear, it's more about being strong enough to admit that your own mother doesn't love you unconditionally. Making the step to stand up to your BPD parent is an especially difficult one because it's done knowing that the relationship is going to turn terribly difficult or disappear all together. Using love as blackmail is an especially effective tool because we all want to be loved by our parents. That rejection is hard to deal with. Hopefully having you and their father there to support them will make that transition that much easier when they're ready to come to terms with reality. 

[StarStruck]

All's not lost although feel for you and your partner sanemom as it's not easy. There are many people that 'work' it out, here's proof on this forum, detailing the journeys. All's very true what Sitara says.

[sanemom]

Thanks for the encouragement.  It is just hard watching.  We certainly don't expect them to voice dissent against their BPD mom; just wish they would stop believing what she says, or at least hold some skepticism about it.  They come home all excited about some empty promise she has made to them that we know is not going to happen, or they make a decision based on one of her fantasies that is not even close to realistic. 

Right now DSS is thinking he wants to change high schools bc his BPD mom told him he could get involved in some extracurricular activity that is available at the other school; truth is, there is no way his skills are high enough to even make the first cut at the other high school.  So he is wanting to change schools on the basis of something that will never happen, but there is no way he would listen to us and what we know because BPD mom supposedly knows everything, even though she has led him astray more times than I can count.

[StarStruck]

heart wrenching and frustrating, really feel for you, I have the same feelings for others in my FOO. With you being informed it must be so hard to see it roll out. (nb. mine didn't act in such a telling way - if comparison helps at all mines a uBPD/npd high functioning). Keep yourself strong, take time for yourselves.

[PleaseValidate]

Sanemom,

Empty promises as a kid were the worst and i believed every one of them until I finally moved out at age 21. These (in)actions by my BPDmo probably had the worst effect on me as an adult.

Almost twenty years later, I nag people because I'm still conditioned to think that people will not follow through. Since it is such a self preserving habit, it is much harder to break than one may think. It causes others frustration. To me it brings anger and shame that i am unable to stop compromising relationships due to my inner turmoil and compulsivity. And speaking of shame, broken promises and anger... .

Even though I had been NC for nearly two decades, and even though I know my BPDmo does not often mean what she says,  I for some reason trusted her when she said , ":)on't put Grams in a nursing home, you know damn well I'll take care of her." Another broken promise. I'm sure she meant it when she said it, but the reality is that she is incapable of following through if it is at any cost to her.

The cost in this instance being that she loved her "under the table" job and didn't want to lose money by not working. So all of Grams kids kept working and/or collecting SSDI while I cared for my grandmother, uncompensated, unable to work since she needed 24/7 care, having no other income, while her 3 children sat back and waited for their mother to die.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

[PleaseValidate]

PS-

In no way mean do i mean to imply that my head was totally in the clouds regarding my BPDmo and my/our life in general.

I think this succinctly illustrates the different worldviews between me being a child of a BPDMO versus others who were raised by a healthy parent.

Conversation at age five between my friend and her mom:

Friend: (to her mom) "Can we go to Dairy Queen tonight?"

Friend's Mom: "Maybe."

Friend: (to me in a whisper) "Maybe means 'Yes!'"

Me: "Maybe means 'No.'"

[StarStruck]

Hi PleaseValidate - is it a question of trust? to be able to trust that particular individual. I would start by thinking who is this person, what do I know about them in ref to all the stuff I now know about PD's. Are they passable? Some more 'passable' then others, for the most 'passable' ones... .

any chance of testing/challenging yourself with them... . and say to yourself 'for this particular person at the next opportunity I am going to try not to nag them' and see what happens... . maybe you could train yourself out of it. They'd give you the confidence that this thing worked that time... . it went right for you and you didn't nag.

Once that one passes the test, so to speak, do it on another. Take it slow and watch yourself. Bet it will be uncomfortable at first because you will want to remind them and remind some more. Be prepared for 'their' failure in this and have a plan b and say to yourself it doesn't matter. Then pick yourself up and try again, keep trying. I'm sure it can be un learnt with increased confidence gained from seeing results when you Don't do it. Just an  

[PleaseValidate]

Thanks SS. I do try and test myself but the only ones I've been able to NOT do it w was my husband and "ex bff" and dead Grams because they were great at remembering.

You are 100% correct that it is an issue of trust. Self preservation is a hard habit to break. My main trigger is people in my life who forget stuff A LOT. Idk why i seem to have so many of them now that i think about it? Another "problem" is that i have an excellent memory and can't comprehend some people who seem to have gotten so far career wise yet can't remember they committed to help me move a couch for example. This just doesn't jive.

But thank you for reminding me to practice!   

[Narellan]

So in reading through this thread, I think now my BPD wasn't lying about some things, he had altered his perception of them? Is it possible they also block out things they say and do? My ex often looked confused when I repeated something he'd said, and then he'd deny saying it. But the confusion was believable, he was often shocked and surprised and couldn't recall things?

[PleaseValidate]

Narellan- yes, yes and yes! Hard to understand to most nons but they distort facts in their head and often forget things they said if it fits their schemas.

This can be extremely frustrating to those who live in reality. Sometimes it helps to remember that it is part of their illness. And sometimes it doesn't. 

[isshebpd]

Please Validate, I know what you mean.

My uBPDmom and uNPDbro will validate each others' revisions of history. Sometime it's like they share the same brain.

uNPDbro has ruined some of uBPDmom's few remaining friendships by distorting conversations and running to Mommy when someone upsets him. I guess it's what they call triangulation.

I just assume uNPDbro distorts everything about me (or anyone) when he talks to our uBPDmom, and vice versa.