"Inner conflict"? No. Something else...

[doubleAries]

I keep re-learning an important lesson over and over. I'm hoping writing it out will help it stick for me, and perhaps help someone else who may have the same issue. It goes something like this:

I get "stuck" in situations (relationships of various kinds, mostly) that I don't want to be in and "can't" extricate myself. I allow myself to get pushed into these things in the first place against my better judgment, and then think I'm being unreasonable and impulsive for wanting out. I can't say NO. Why not?

Here's why: I believe there is an inner conflict between my reasoning/thinking and my emotions (or my conscious and subconscious). I finally extricate myself and say "NEVER AGAIN!" and then there I am, doing exactly the same thing again and again. At almost 49 years old (divorced for the 3rd time last year) I was frightened--I no longer believe myself when I say "NEVER AGAIN!"

This past week, I had to fire 2 different employees. It was excruciating. I put off firing 1 of these people for 2 YEARS! It was too emotionally difficult. Yeah, that "inner conflict"--my reasoning mind knows what needs to be done (fire her) but my emotional side can't deal with it.

Except there is no "inner conflict". The real issue is emotional disconnect.

A really old pattern for me is to avoid emotions. This was a great idea when I was growing up with the sadistic witch mother. But it isn't anymore. Emotions weren't allowed when I was a kid. They resulted in beatings and endless denigration. Only the witch was allowed to have (out of control) emotions. As an adult, I believe emotions are "out of control" because that is what I saw. So therefore, they are to be avoided.

OK, it's not "fun" to fire people from their jobs (and if it is, then there certainly is a problem). It's natural to feel uncomfortable about an uncomfortable situation (like splitting up with someone, firing someone, rejecting someone in any form--especially to someone who experienced a lot of rejection). But I come to believe that if I'm feeling uncomfortable, then I must be doing something incorrectly. I begin to examine my reasoning. This is like having one foot nailed to the floor, going around and around in circles, and then examining the foot that ISN'T nailed to the floor to see what the problem is. The reasoning isn't the problem.

The problem is I am afraid to experience the discomfort of an uncomfortable situation (and therefore allow myself to squirm endlessly in misery to avoid discomfort. How tweaky is THAT?) I don't THINK this out--I just do it automatically, and don't notice or question it. It becomes a basic premise.

That discomfort isn't going to kill me. Nothing is going to explode or implode. It's not dangerous. It's just uncomfortable. That's all. Yet the (unacknowledged) desire to avoid that discomfort leads me to do the same undesirable things over and over, even as my thinking/rational mind is saying to me "WHAT THE F*** ARE YOU DOING?"

I avoided firing this lady for 2 years--maybe longer, she worked for me for 4 years and was never a good fit for my business; incompetent, rude, lazy and out of control. I was so worried about being "mean" that I began to make up excuses for her that she didn't bother to make up for herself. Just like I do in intimate relationships. I said to myself "I don't know what the right decision is here" even though I DID know, I just didn't want to do it (because it would be uncomfortable). It only makes sense... . once you decide "I'm NOT going to face/experience that discomfort" then you have to adjust your actions. You do this old pattern that didn't work before and isn't going to work this time either. The pattern that allows the unacceptable to continue because the right decision leads to the discomfort that has already been refused. Even if it means wallowing in misery, regret, resentment, and frustration. And begin to try to convince yourself (myself) that I must be unreasonable, or rash and impulsive, or "mean" for not being happy with the situation. That I'm selfish or intolerant for feeling resentment. I have to cope with the hole I have dug for myself (with my automatic decision to not allow discomfort).

There's no "inner conflict". There's only the disconnect. The automatic refusal to deal with simple uncomfortable emotions stemming from my own actions (instead of someone elses, which I should, of course, always be willing to deal with  )

I sat down for almost half an hour and explained--out loud--to myself that it's natural and OK to feel uncomfortable in an uncomfortable situation. That I don't have to make that feeling go away, that I won't die from it, that I can handle it even though it sucks. Then I did what I needed to do, and fired this woman. And it was uncomfortable. I didn't tell her I felt really bad (uh, I'm firing her--she doesn't want to hear about my feelings, she's dealing with her own). I told her the reasons I was firing her in plain terms without accusations. And when she sent me a couple very snotty, rude emails (one full of excuses for her incompetent work behavior--the reason she was being fired in the first place, for making excuses instead of accepting responsibility--and the other email just plain old rude lashing out) I did not argue with her, defend myself against her outrageous claims, try to get her to understand reason. I stayed focused on the actual goal--to fire her. Mission accomplished, no need to continue trying to break through the defensive excuses and smokescreen accusations. I responded this: "Well, I’m sorry you feel this way, but I understand. Still wish you best of luck, and a safe trip for a sad event (your grandmothers illness)."

Lesson? There's no "inner conflict". There's only allowing uncomfortable emotions that accompany uncomfortable situations. When they aren't allowed, the course of action must change to accommodate other more familiar emotions that ARE allowed. Which in reality, may be worse than the emotions being avoided.

I know this. I've learned this before. Several times. I feel stupid for having to learn it again and again and again. But I suppose that's how automatic patterns work--they don't go away overnight. And realizing/understanding (the thinking/rational process) this isn't the same as practicing FEELING it. It's a FEELING thing, not a THINKING thing. I keep being scared that I'm asking myself to drop all reason and thinking in favor of FEELING, which doesn't seem like a good idea at all. But that's not really what's being done at all. It's just about allowing feelings instead of denying them. That is what allows the reasonable course of action to proceed.

Hope this sticks in my life and hope maybe it helps someone else.

[Cumulus]

DoubleAries, Congratulations,  I had read in other posts of yours how your work place was disturbed by this employee.

I think your premise that their is no inner conflict, just uncomfortable emotions is a good one. I do want to spend some time thinking through your post. It is timely for me. I am in a new relationship with a healthy man, have to say it is a lot more work than with my xBPDh, and this subject came up between us yesterday.

Part of the reason I really am liking this guy is his passion for living and his passion for his beliefs. Yesterday we were with some other people and a subject he feels strongly about came up. He wasn't rude, didn't swear, didn't yell. He stated his opinion with force however. You could see by his posture, his voice becoming louder and him leaning forward in his chair that he felt strongly about the subject. He controlled the conversation for awhile before he verbally backed away. His body language still confirmed his strong feelings on the subject and you could easily see that he was upset.  Whoa, I start trying to reel him in. Little nudges, a whispered back away.

Afterwards I felt terrible. I apologized. What right do I have to ask him to back away from a subject that was up for discussion and that he was passionate about. I had to consider for what reason I did that, why was I so uncomfortable? Because I am afraid of strong emotions. I want everyone and everything to be like vanilla pudding. Don't be putting any spice on my emotions thank you.  It was a new insight  for me. So thank you for your post. It will help me as I continue to work this issue through. Cumulus.

[Surnia]

  DoubleAries

A great step!

Then I did what I needed to do, and fired this woman. And it was uncomfortable. I didn't tell her I felt really bad (uh, I'm firing her--she doesn't want to hear about my feelings, she's dealing with her own). I told her the reasons I was firing her in plain terms without accusations. And when she sent me a couple very snotty, rude emails (one full of excuses for her incompetent work behavior--the reason she was being fired in the first place, for making excuses instead of accepting responsibility--and the other email just plain old rude lashing out) I did not argue with her, defend myself against her outrageous claims, try to get her to understand reason. I stayed focused on the actual goal--to fire her. Mission accomplished, no need to continue trying to break through the defensive excuses and smokescreen accusations. I responded this: "Well, I’m sorry you feel this way, but I understand. Still wish you best of luck, and a safe trip for a sad event (your grandmothers illness)."

I really like the way you handled it and also your awareness before you did what you had to do!

[schwing]

Hi doubleAries,

Lesson? There's no "inner conflict". There's only allowing uncomfortable emotions that accompany uncomfortable situations. When they aren't allowed, the course of action must change to accommodate other more familiar emotions that ARE allowed. Which in reality, may be worse than the emotions being avoided.

I know this. I've learned this before. Several times. I feel stupid for having to learn it again and again and again. But I suppose that's how automatic patterns work--they don't go away overnight. And realizing/understanding (the thinking/rational process) this isn't the same as practicing FEELING it. It's a FEELING thing, not a THINKING thing. I keep being scared that I'm asking myself to drop all reason and thinking in favor of FEELING, which doesn't seem like a good idea at all. But that's not really what's being done at all. It's just about allowing feelings instead of denying them. That is what allows the reasonable course of action to proceed.

I can identify with your experience.

There are many ways to approach this personal disconnect.  Here's how I choose to approach my emotional disconnect:

My disordered parents never parented me in a way that helped me integrate or work through my emotions (like you describe).  I was encouraged to suppress and not express my emotions.  And since this personal discovery, I've been trying to make up for that lack of parenting.  The part of me (inner child?) that still needs to work through these emotional lessons, need the kind of space and patience to learn as any child needs.  It helps that I'm currently raising a pair of kids who are learning similar things... . in a sense I'm parenting the three of us.

You'd never tell your children that they are "stupid" for taking whatever amount of time they need to learn these things.  And if your kid admitted to you that he or she felt stupid that it's taking so long to "learn" it, you'd probably find a way to help them see it differently.  After all these are the kind of lessons that if you don't work through, can haunt you well into your adult life. 

As adults dealing with this, it's helpful to realize *why* we feel scared when we are facing emotions that *feel* out of control.  We had parents that would scare the beejeebus out of us if we so much as let out a peep of these emotions.  And this kind of conditioning doesn't go away over night.  How do you convince a battered child that they will no longer be beaten for behaviors they've always associated with danger?  Patience, understanding, and consistency.  They might never... . we might never... . fully erase some of the conditioning, but we can make a lot of progress.

One aspect that I admit to being very difficult is that when I'm in my "intellectual" space, it's easy to "be the adult" and I expect to be treated like an adult, and I expect to treat people as adults.  But in this "emotional" space, I'm fighting tooth and nail against seeing myself not as an adult.  But the truth is, that part of me needs the opportunity to grow up... . in a positive and loving manner.

Best wishes, Schwing

[Grey Kitty]

  DA... . haven't seen you in a while.

I ran into a list a while back of things that an emotional grown-up (referred to as a person with a black belt in life) would know. One of them comes to mind:

Simply the fact that something is uncomfortable is not sufficient reason to avoid doing it.

And I do know that frozen feeling of realizing I'm avoiding doing something. Often a good time to sincerely ask myself what I'm afraid of... . and if I'm doing something effective to mitigate it. (Usually not... . no surprise there!)

One other thought... . doesn't it feel REALLY GOOD to actually move through something you've been avoiding?

[doubleAries]

Thanks, all.

Cumulus, I know what you mean. I am a person who also expresses things (ideas mostly, not emotions, even though often others misinterpret this as me being a very emotional person) very passionately. But when others do this, it makes me really nervous. And I can't just be nervous--I have to MAKE IT STOP! I've known people who were very jealous. They usually try to make the person they are jealous conform in ways that help them avoid the jealousy, instead of taking personal responsibility for it. This is unattractive behavior to watch. But this isn't much different, is it? "I'm getting nervous, and you need to stop doing what makes me feel nervous, so I don't have to examine my nervousness, deal with it, or experience it!" Our emotions belong to us, they weren't "caused" by someone else, and they aren't someone elses responsibility. When we take responsibility for our emotions, our thinking minds know what to do. I can handle most things, but when someone gets angry about something, I become incredibly nervous, and immediately start trying to placate them.

Surnia, I "cheated" just a little--after I fired her, I googled up "firing employees" and found some excellent website articles with some really good advice, especially about arguing with recently fired employees. Here were a couple things that really hit home:

Never say, “Look, I’m not sure how to say this…” You’re sure what to say. You’re just uncomfortable saying it.

Never play games to try to protect the employee's feelings—or, worse, to protect your own.

This helped a lot. It made me stay focused on firing her, not explaining myself, or arguing, or anything else.   Wish I'd have looked it up FIRST, but now I know... .

Schwing, That's the next part of my "re-parenting" journey--to quit being so rude to myself. My T points it out all the time to me, making me see just how prevalent it is. I wouldn't dream of talking to others the way I talk to myself!

My mom was a sadist (I don't use this word lightly--she perfectly fit the DSM3 Sadist Personality Disorder criteria, which unfortunately has been removed from DSM). When her abusiveness elicited fear in her abusee's (my brothers and I) she thrived on it, went off the deep end in giddy rage. Wala. Don't show fear, or anything else. Sure, we'd still get abused, but not accompanied by the frightening glee of her rage. I practiced this so long and so many times, that it is really difficult to catch it anymore. Like I said to cumulus above--when someone becomes angry for any reason (even if has nothing to do with me), I go into automatic mode. I put off firing this employee for so long because I knew she would get angry (and she did). I put off leaving my paranoid bipolar ASPD, NPD ex husband for 17 years because I knew he'd get angry (and he did). I have wallowed in despair and misery for years and years just to avoid the discomfort I feel when someone gets angry. I just don't want to do this anymore! But I do. And every time I THINK that I have it REASONED out, I end up doing it again. And again. Because I keep looking at the foot that ISN'T nailed to the floor to discover the problem. I don't see the problem there. So I look closer. Then I start making stuff up. I must be a bad person of some sort, or I wouldn't feel this inner conflict. Oh yeah, there is no inner conflict... . I'm looking at the wrong foot... .

Grey Kitty, HI'YA!

You know, that's "funny"... . there are plenty of things I'm not afraid of feeling uncomfortable about. Or scared about it. I've been a firefighter/EMT/HazMat ops/swift water rescue/first responder for 5 years. Am I scared when I come up on a huge blaze or horrific car wreck? OF COURSE. Most people have sense enough to run away. Some of us run straight to it. We join the fire department and get called hero's instead of idiots    

One time a wise man told me "anger is a mask for fear". I've learned to incorporate that into my philosophy. When I examine myself, I see the truth of that. For example, when I think about something about my mom, I feel angry at her. It's easy to call that emotion up. Because it's about her, not me. And it's OK to feel angry at her, so long as I don't get stuck there. Then I say to self: "OK and what about ME? How did I feel about myself about that event/situation?" That's always harder. A *lot* harder. I don't even know sometimes. I'm disconnected from it. It's easier to feel angry because fear is vulnerable.

Does it feel really good to move through something I've been avoiding? No, not really. There's certainly relief for finally getting through it, but like my firing of the employee scenario--no, it didn't feel really good. It felt horribly uncomfortable. Which is not sufficient reason to avoid doing it  

[Surnia]

DoubleAries

okay, lets say cheating or looking for support 

great you started to see it as a problem and could take action. Making choices and take responsibility for it. 

[peacebaby]

Really cool thread!

Lesson? There's no "inner conflict". There's only allowing uncomfortable emotions that accompany uncomfortable situations. When they aren't allowed, the course of action must change to accommodate other more familiar emotions that ARE allowed. Which in reality, may be worse than the emotions being avoided.

The above really rezonated with me. How often I choose to feel the allowed feelings, which are mostly negative, how hard it is to make myself feel the feelings that feel better. Lately I've been struggling with self discipline with my freelance jobs. I sit there going, I just can't deal with this and end up feeling like I suck. I've found that the thing that relieves this feeling is actually doing the freelance work. Talk about simple and crazy. I can sit here ruminating for literally hours, with the computer with the freelance work right in front of me, and choose to feel the allowed feeling of self-defeat instead of the more pleasant feeling of accomplishment.

I have an unusual early childhood emotional management scenario that I'm coming to understand better and better with time. Both my parents were afraid of dealing with their own emotions, and were terrified of dealing with mine and my brothers. They were living a glamorous life at the time, so they were able to afford nannies for us. Young women who had no formal training, who lived with us 24/7. So instead of simply not teaching us how to deal with our emotions, our parents paid people to handle us for them. When it's your job to take care of someone's kid, and you're 18, it's not about teaching emotional management. So we were taught that others would take care of our painful emotions for us. This has not served either my brother or myself well.

[doubleAries]

Peacebaby, I cut and pasted the same exact paragraph you did into an email that I sent myself. It's in my inbox, red flagged, with a title "read this every day".

I keep wanting to believe my emotions and my thoughts are at odds with each other ("inner conflict". But they aren't. When I don't allow certain feelings (due to ingrained, automatic patterns) then I *can't* proceed with the course of action my thinking mind thought up. There is no separating the emotions from the thoughts and/or actions they accompany.

In the firing someone scenario, for example, I have 3 courses of action: (1) I accept the perfectly understandable feelings of discomfort that accompany an uncomfortable task, and proceed. (2) I refuse to accept the uncomfortable feelings that accompany this task, so I can't complete the task and keep putting it off, hoping it will magically resolve itself. (3) I refuse the uncomfortable feelings that accompany this task, and try to convince myself that it's a FUN task and become a weirdo who claims to get great pleasure out of firing people. A tyrant no one would want to work for. Exactly the kind of defense mechanisms personality disordered people are known for.

[Cumulus]

I can handle most things, but when someone gets angry about something, I become incredibly nervous, and immediately start placating them.  I have wallowed in despair and misery for years and years just to avoid the discomfort I feel when someone gets angry.

Singing to the choir here girl. 

I think this idea in large part is the answer to why I remained married to a pwBPD for so long. It was a win win situation for keeping us together. I couldn't, or wouldn't handle emotion and that worked well for him. He could be angry and it would send me into immediate appeasement mode. I'm so sorry, let me fix it, don't  you worry, I'll look after it, I'll make sure that won't happen again. He was safe,  not confronted about his behaviour. I was safe, he didn't make me acknowledge uncomfortable emotions. But what a lose lose situation it really was. Both of us enabling the other to stay emotionally immature. I still have moments when I lament and mourn those lost years.

I found your post really helpful, it helps to be aware and just recognize those difficult emotions coming on. If I can name it, I have a good chance of being able to deal with it. Thanks DA.

[peacebaby]

Both of us enabling the other to stay emotionally immature.

[/b]

Very nice. Very true.

[PrettyPlease]

I can handle most things, but when someone gets angry about something, I become incredibly nervous, and immediately start placating them.  I have wallowed in despair and misery for years and years just to avoid the discomfort I feel when someone gets angry.

Singing to the choir here girl.  

Yes, me too. Especially about anger. I was not allowed to be angry in FOO, only mother (and very occasionally father) were allowed anger. If I (or my sister) got angry it was immediately disallowed. So I learned to hide and eventually forget that ability.

I'm so sorry, let me fix it, don't  you worry, I'll look after it, I'll make sure that won't happen again.

And like Cumulus I learned appeasement, which served me so poorly in my first long-term relationship with a pwBPD.

But I'll also add -- although I don't know if others in this thread are the same -- that I learned another way of coping: to flee. To go make another life somewhere else. To define other aggressive people -- or even healthily assertive people, I'm afraid -- as being 'bad'. As being something I couldn't cope with, in other words -- because I could see that appeasement wasn't getting me anywhere. Yet I didn't understand how else to deal with it, since I couldn't assert myself directly -- had no hormonal, chemical driver to stand up for myself. Or at least, the one I had was subconsciously squelched.

And, I learned how to hit inanimate objects really really hard.    Sports was good for that.