Finding the words to communicate with my UBPDS 29

[Dibdob59]

Hi all

I have posted before but not for a while. My single UBPDS 29 struggles daily, muddles through life, going from job to job.  He does not live with us as he and his (possibly UBPD/NPD) Dad do not get on.

My DS has two children from two failed relationships. He has them regularly, almost 50% of their time is with him. He rents a house to ensure they have their own bedrooms etc. so he has important responsibilities.

Money is one of the big issues. He does not qualify for any benefits and here in the UK property rental is more expensive than buying a house. As he works and does his best I help financially where I can. It really takes two wages to rent and live here at present. As far as I know he does not do drugs but does have the dysregulation, insecurities, impulsive behaviour, anger and depression of BPD.  On the occasions that he uses alcohol it becomes a big issue as that is when he tends to 'lose it'.  He drinks rarely but he should not drink at all as he feels that peer pressure means he has to keep up with his buddies.  He fails to see they do eventually stop drinking when they know they have had enough (added to which they do not suffer from BPD).  Once he gets past having a few drinks he gets totally drunk and ends up crying, causing bother, getting argumentative/aggressive and being arrested etc.

He has been asked to go to a stag weekend in Dublin. Flight, hotel, meals and alcohol all need to be paid for.  He asked for me to pay towards it some months ago, I said no. He didn't ask again. Then last month he asked if I had booked the flight. I reminded him I had said no, that he had responsibilities that he struggles to pay each month and asked him if he thought it was a sensible priority.  Again he did not ask again.

I have had a text today asking if I could please pay for the flight.  I am not getting the message across.  What am I doing wrong?

My fear is he will go and get totally wasted, his mates will leave him (they always do) and he will get arrested in Ireland. He will then go to court, have to pay a fine and this will go on his criminal record.  He already has a record for being drunk and disorderly here in the UK.

Without preaching, which I feel he won't listen to, what else can I say?

Thanks

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[suchsadness]

Hello Dibdob59   

I feel for you - as I have adult children who ask me for financial help when I know they are not spending/budgeting wisely as well.  It's so hard to say no, but you have already said it to him so that makes it a bit easier.  Could you say something like: It seems like (or I know that) you are counting on my help in your plans to take this trip to Dublin.  I need to make it clear that I won't be paying for your flight and contributing to a situation that I feel is not in your best interest.  It would not be good for either of us if you continue to count on my help and then feel like I let you down when it doesn't happen.

I have struggled for years with saying/doing the right thing according to my BPD dd36 - and it seems like we do better when we communicate by text or email.  I don't know if that works for you or maybe you do all your communicating in person or by phone.  Good luck with your situation, and keep us posted.   

[lever.]

I don't think he's going to like it however you say it but I think Support, Empathy Truth is probably the best way.

Something like:

I know you would really like to go to Dublin and I would like you to have a good time. Its a real pain when your mates are doing stuff and you can't afford it. However I can only give you limited financial help and I have to save it for absolute necessities. Also I'm concerned that they will all be getting drunk (or whatever word you use!) and that might cause problems.

Just a suggestion which could be modified.

Also agree with e-mail being easier if you use it with him as it gives time to think and avoids arguing.

[suchsadness]

Oh YIKES ALMIGHTY!  No wonder I have trouble communicating with my BPD dd26 - I just read over my post, then read Lever's post!  Do I ever need to work on my SET approaches.  Good thing I have this board to help me.  Dibdob59 I take back my suggestion about using my words... . and agree with Lever.   

[suchsadness]

Looks like I need to work on my typing skills too... . my dd is 36 not 26.  And I think it is probably true that I used the wrong approach in communication/relationship with a child/person who has BPD.

[Dibdob59]

Suchsadness

Your name reflects how I feel every minute of every day. Please don't apologise for your suggestions as I really struggle to use validating language, hence my post. I feel frustrated and angry ... yes angry ... with my UBPDS and am sure that comes across in my words even when I keep my tone calm.  I know from all I read on here that I should not be angry with him, that he is ill, that he cannot help it ... . but the truth is I often am and feel so guilty for it.  He has caused himself and so many others such pain and does not seem to understand ... . yes I know I should be more understanding and compassionate and some days I can be, but underneath it all my heart screams at the injustice of it all. So there are no apologies needed from you.

Lever

Your words seem much more like what I need to say - to validate and not judge.  Thank you so much.

Why do I struggle so much with being able to communicate with someone I love so desperately? 

Why can those with BPD never see a chink of reason?

Why can't my son see that drinking with friends is always catastrophic for him?

Too many questions, not enough answers

Thank you both

[lever.]

I am practicing SET and, believe me, the more practice I get with other posters issues the better. In real life I have real difficulty communicating with my DD. Sometimes I'm a quivering wreck, terrified of getting it wrong.

I carefully word my e-mail, seek advice here and then get replies like"I don't give a flying f***" (Nice!)

I empathize with your feelings of frustration at the apparent injustice.

Reading Valerie Porr's book has helped me to keep in mind that my DD has a real though hidden disability and is doing her best, this helps me take things less personally. Sometimes though I get very upset that I spent a lot of my daughter's adolescence looking for help for her and advocating for her and that now things are better there is no gratitude at all and I'm still her whipping boy. When I feel like this I tend to retreat for a while.

You ask why you find it difficult to communicate with someone you love so much. I think sometimes its our anxiety for them that gets in the way.

I do understand what you are saying.

[Dibdob59]

Hi

Well I thought my UBPDS had understood my reply that I would not help him with his trip to Dublin but today I received another text message asking me to "please help him sort the flight out".  In my UBPDS language 'help' normally means 'pay'.

I am clearly not getting through to him.  He is so persistent and does not give up.  He has also resorted to constantly ringing and texting his older sister at work asking her to do the same thing and help him.

I am so sick of this. 

I want to remind him yet again that he has bills to pay that are overdue.

I want to remind him yet again that drinking for 3 days with people that do not show any consideration for him is unwise.

I want to tell him to take responsibility and stop his sense of entitlement. 

All huge triggers.

Do any of you wise people out there have any advice please.

Thanks

A desperate Dibdob

[qcarolr]

Hi Dibdob59

I have been following this thread. My BPDDD27 is so similar in just not accepting when I say no, and to keep on asking and asking and asking. She just wears me down and too often in the past I end up giving in. Not good actually. A huge reinforcement for her to keep asking!

Hang in there and keep saying you hope he can figure this out and you are not able to help him with this trip.

It is hard for me to let go of adding all the other things I really want to say. My DD only hears what she wants to hear when she is believing she just has to get what she wants -- that she needs it or deserves it... .   What I feel, think, believe is not going to get through to her.

So does this seem like a situation where you can validate how much he wants this adventure and how disappointing it will be if he cannot figure out how to get there? Focus on how he is feeling instead of what he is wanting? Can you ask him what is getting in his way to figure this out for himself?

If he says "money", can you say how hard that must be to not have the funds to make this work out?

Just some ideas to stick to your 'no' and being a concerned mom, not a bank.

qcr

[Dibdob59]

Qcr

Thank you for your reply.  I have followed your journey on here for a long time and witnessed the torment you have suffered.  It is so hard to do what feels right and, like you, in the past I have given in for the sake of peace (and sanity). 

However I find myself at a place now where enough is enough.  I need to make this stand.  I have to make this stand.  If not he is simply going to keep demanding for ever.

My fear is that sticking to my guns will trigger him and he will act rashly, go drinking, get into trouble etc and then blame me.  In the past when he has got drunk and raged he has blamed it on something I did or said that 'made him act that way'. In my heart I know that to be nonsense but guilt kicks in nevertheless.

Thank you for your suggestions, I will try them. 

In the UK BPD is barely recognised, my doctor and therapist are both ignorant of it. When I outlined what it was to them they each implied I was making excuses for my son's behaviour.  If only they had to live with him they may feel differently.

May God bless all of us here who have to deal with this illness.

[Rapt Reader]

Why do I struggle so much with being able to communicate with someone I love so desperately? 

Hi, Dibdob59 

I think all of us have to deal with this struggle, at least from time to time. I actually found this to be more of a problem with dealing with my uBPD D-I-L rather than my dBPDson37 (she is married to my other, non-BPD son). I always got tangled up in my own emotions and fears when communicating with her, making it almost impossible for me to react and talk to her in the "right" way. We've had NC, LC, rages from her against me, etc., in the past.

Last year I read and participated in this Workshop: How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life? and it actually changed my life! It changed how I understood her, and changed the way I care about her, and changed the way I communicate with her. And things are still better between us! I can't recommend this Workshop enough; in fact, this thread is inspiring me to bring this Workshop back to the Parenting a Child Board for more attention... .

Can you tell that I recommend it highly? 

I agree with lever and her suggestion of using SET with this problem with your son... . When giving Support, Empathy, and Truth to deal with especially tricky situations (like yours is), just make sure you have no judgment or criticism in the words you use or your tone of voice.

And one other thing... . Make sure you don't JADE: Justify, Apologize, Defend, Explain. Basically, use SET and just the facts, Ma'am    lever's example was very good; you can change it to suit your exact circumstances, or to answer additional protestations from your son, if necessary.

Good luck, Dibdob59... . We are rooting for you in this 

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lever.]

This sounds like an important turning point for you. I would try to persist with empathy and Truth (Yes, it must be very disappointing for you... . No, I am unable to help"

Any further justifying or explaining could lead to more arguments.

When you have given in before(entirely understandably) his behaviour has been intermittently re-inforced, so when you try to respond differently now you may experience an extinction burst, ie he will up the behaviour and pressurise you in the hope you will give in. Stay strong.

With hindsight I gave in for peace a lot in the past and unwittingly strengthened a lot of unhelpful behaviour.

In the short term sticking to your guns may trigger him. In the long term it may help both of you.

Very easy for professionals to imply you are making excuses for his behaviour (see the thread on professionals just not understanding what it is like to live in these situations).