BPD and Verbal Abuse

[tenseintn]

I am in an on again/off again relationship with an undiagnosed BPD alcoholic.  He's really good at building me up... . and then, after we get close, he almost immediately tears me down verbally, usually through cruel text messages.  For instance, he routinely attacks me because I have an STD and threatens to tell everyone about it.  (Sorry, that's really personal, but that's the level of cruelty that I'm dealing with.)

I've seen a lot of comments on this site about not subjecting yourself to abuse.  I'm having a hard time differentiating between verbal abuse and the push/pull of BPD behavior.  Are they the same thing?  How do I draw the line and stop the verbal abuse, while making the decision to accept his condition?  Is that impossible to do?  From what I've read, emotional and verbal abuse seems to come hand-in-hand with this disorder.

It happened again a few days ago.  I blew up and told him that I was done.  I meant it at the time, but now I'm not sure.  It is just really hard to be someone's verbal punching bag.  All of my friends tell me repeatedly that he can't possibly love me if he treats me and manipulates me in this way.  And sometimes, I believe that's true.  But sometimes, I think it's a symptom of his disorder and it's not his fault, and it's not personal.  And he loves me in the only way that he knows how.  But that's really hard to do when you're dealing with such personal attacks.

Any tips for boundaries in this situation?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[joshbjoshb]

Are you considering leaving him?

If yes, there is a great board "leaving or staying" you should visit. Here it's mainly for people 100% sure they want to continue.

Good luck!

On a personal level, I'd run away the other direction from this person.

[vanillabear]

hey tensintn

I actually just posted a question on this board about how to stop feeling powerless and how to differentiate between BPD behavior and emotional abuse, so I feel like we're kind of in the same boat. I have no concrete answers but I wanted to reach out regardless. I've been reading through the Boundaries workshop on here, you may want to do the same (https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries ).

all my best.

[tenseintn]

Yes, I am considering leaving him.  Up until this point, I've been determined to stay.  But I just don't know if it's the right thing to do anymore.

I've also been reading about NPD, and I'm starting to wonder if that's what I'm dealing with, or some combination of BPD and NPD.  Seems to me that's a nearly impossible combination.

Thanks so much.  I'll read all of the things.

[tenseintn]

In addition to the verbal abuse, there's constant infidelity and refusal to commit.  So, that's why I'm starting to wonder about NPD.

[Chosen]

Hi tenseintn,

  I understand what you mean by verbal abuse once you guys are close.  I used to be subjected to those too.  Things have gotten much, much better these days, thanks to bpdfamily and all the Lessons on here.  But then, it's took me more than a year before things turned better, so if you do want to stay, it's going to be a long process.

Verbal abuse is part of the push, I think, and our pwBPDs know exactly what to say to hurt us the most (and that includes threatening to expose your secrets).  By putting boundaries around it, we let them know we don't accept this behaviour.  We can't logically tell/ beg/ ask them not to say those things which hurt us, because at that moment they really wanted to hurt us (maybe it's the BPD talking, but still, we get hurt). 

What I did personally was when my pwBPD started the verbal abuse, e.g. name calling, shaming, I built up the courage to say, "I will not respond to any abuse".  Then I just shut up and refuse to respond until he is able to talk without abusing (he may still be angry, but shaming somebody is NOT healthy commuication and isn't helpful).  At the same time, I learn to detach myself BEFORE those situations occur (no need to tell him), for example when I sense that he's getting unstable emotionally, I will just stop discussing a certain topic, so as not to add fuel to the fire. 

But when the abuse starts, there really is nothing you can do because your pwBPD isn't thinking rationally.  They want to lash out and if you're there to absorb the abuse, they will continue with it.  All you can do is to remove yourself from that, not only to prevent it escalating even further, but to protect your own sanity. 

Hope this helps a little.

[Hope26]

Hi tenseintn,

I agree with 'Chosen' that the best thing to do is detach yourself when you can see that he's getting unstable emotionally.  I believe Chosen said that she would refuse to continue to discuss a particular topic.  I agree with this, and now I try to go one step further and not discuss anything at all.  I will pick up a book and/or go to another room.  Once they start winding up, it doesn't even matter what topic is under discussion, in my experience.  You can't do or say anything that's right.  If you are not yet committed to this person, and are dealing with other issues in addition to BPD, (you mentioned infidelity, etc.) I would think very hard about whether it is worth it.  Just my 2 cents worth.

[joshbjoshb]

Good luck with that.

Yes, I am considering leaving him.  Up until this point, I've been determined to stay.  But I just don't know if it's the right thing to do anymore.

I've also been reading about NPD, and I'm starting to wonder if that's what I'm dealing with, or some combination of BPD and NPD.  Seems to me that's a nearly impossible combination.

Thanks so much.  I'll read all of the things.

[Lilibeth]

Thank you for that helpful post, Chosen. I'm trying the same things too. The other day he asked me an opinion and when i told it to him, he started off on how wrong i was etcetcetc... . you are familiar with this... . I wasn't in a position where i could get up and go away, because he would only have followed me around... so i told him just as he was entitled to his opinions, i was to mine. That, i think, shocked him so much, he kept quiet. But, i also know that this is not going to work every time.

The only thing i realize i can fall back on without every going wrong is that i can sense the vibes and try to prepare myself for the emotional instability that is on its way... . Sometimes it works, but when it doesn't, then i get a grip and start to work on myself.

It surely is a difficult choice you have to make here tenseintn... . We're all with you.

[waverider]

With regards to abuse & boundaries do not get mixed up trying to work out what is defined as abuse, whats fair and what isn't.

If something hurts you physically or mentally, you put in an action to prevent your exposure to it. You do not need to justify it, simple as that.

That action can be either disengaging, or boundaries, up to and including leaving, whatever it takes.

[Lilibeth]

Thank you Waverider. I needed that. I do often get caught in the what's fair and what isn't... . I hadn't looked at it this way. Thank you.

[Chosen]

Thank you for that helpful post, Chosen. I'm trying the same things too. The other day he asked me an opinion and when i told it to him, he started off on how wrong i was etcetcetc... . you are familiar with this... . I wasn't in a position where i could get up and go away, because he would only have followed me around... so i told him just as he was entitled to his opinions, i was to mine. That, i think, shocked him so much, he kept quiet. But, i also know that this is not going to work every time.

Judging from what you said, I'll say you did well!  This is the correct mindset- we have different opinions, it's ok.  Neither of us have to convince the other that they are right and the other person wrong.  Because the world is not black and white.

Ok... . so he won't like it because he prefers you to take his opinion (LOL... . otherwise he would "have" to take your opinion which means defeat for the pwBPD)... . BUT he also can't argue with you when you let him know you are NOT trying to convince him.  I've come to realise that sometimes we can't have everything; this conversation will probably leave you both a both dissatisfied with the result (as it seems things are not "settled", but this is a great opportunity to let him know that you're ok with both of you not having the same opinion either, and that it's not such a big deal.

It does work.  I've done this enough times with my pwBPD (you have to maintain the calmness so that he will know it REALLY is ok to differ in opinion), and now sometimes he will let me respectfully disagree with him, and he'll do the same to me.

[Lilibeth]

Thank you Chosen. I needed that affirmation and reassurance. You're right - it is always his opinion that is right and mine and everyone else's, wrong. I have to maintain my calmness - that is the key for me. Maintain my calmness and let him know that even as i have my opinion, i'm not rejecting his - just not accepting it, kind-of-thing. Both can co-exist... . Thanks, Chosen.

[waverider]

Not trying to sell your version of reality to someone else is important, it is hard to refrain from trying to. It is less threatening though if we dont.

You might believe the moon is not made of cheese but you dont have to persuade your pwBPD this is the case though. You only need to believe in your right to state that you don't believe it is.