I admit that I was living a lie.

[woodsposse]

For me, initially, it was just hard to understand and admit that I was living a lie.  Everything felt so real.  

Yes, I gave and gave to my spouse.  And I never cheated - never strayed - was a dutiful husband and father, trying to get my job thing under control (as in work and get promoted and all that jazz) and enjoyed being a father and husband.

But in the background of what I thought was going on - something entirely different was going on.  Yes, there was enough "truths" to make anything seem possible.  If there were problems going on and she says it's because x-y-or-z... . then I looked to see if we could fix that.  If it was me that was "broken" then I wanted to fix that.  Even when I had stone cold fact on my side... . and could prove it... . the problem was never her - it was always external (me, the wind, blue, the "v" in ":)VD".

It isn't that I thought I was staying and putting up with the abuse.  Oh no - I got mad, angry, frustrated, lashed out, sulked, you name it.  All the while what I was saying made perfect sense - but she has the ability to just twist it just enough so you think it is you - and then you calm down and say "yeah, I got too worked up.  I'm sorry.  I blew it out of proportions" so you can keep the peace and go about your merry little lie.

But when the affairs start slipping through - and you know for a fact you are not in the wrong - that even gets turned on you.  "why don't you trust me?  You are just saying this because your last significant other cheated so you think everyone is cheating".

Of course when the truth comes out later... . you are like - "I KNEW I WAS RIGHT"... . but accept her ration of crap that she did it because YOU made her feel lonely because YOU didn't do something right.

So... . let me see if I get this right.

It's my fault because I tell the truth, want to do my part (if not more) to make our relationship a good one, work, pay (almost) all the bills, don't drink, don't smoke, don't do cocaine off strippers tits, am not out running the streets with my boys,  and am willing to do what I have to to protect my family.

It's somehow my fault that I drove you to lie to me... . outside of hump someone else... . it's my fault I set up an environment where it was okay to lie... .

Because I stayed.

But the "why did I stay" part is what is fascinating.  Yes, I loved her.  Well, the her I thought she was - when I thought she was actually being herself and truthful with me.  And I stayed because I'm a loving father and husband.  But even more than that... . I stayed in this up/down type of coaster beause... .

I was taught to do that by my mother.

After careful consideration I replayed my entire childhood with my mother (who, by the way I recently found out had been diagnosed years ago.  Not with BPD but one of the other PD... . which happened to be the same diagnosis my spouse received - though I suspect my spouse also suffers BPD) - and as it turns out... . I did the same thing at home.

Not sexual or anything like that - but my mom would RAGE... . I mean big time.  Everything was always someone elses fault.  EVERYTHING!  To this day... . it's always something else and never anything my mother did.  But to get her back to being "normal" and calm... . you do anything you can to quiet her down.  Anything to get her to go back to seeing you for you.

Then she loves you one moment - and can't even see you standing in front of her the next.

But heaven help you if you wanna go see your dad (who she despises) - and be happy because you wanna see him... . oh, now you love him more than me.  Of course the rage which would eventually follow was cloaked in some bit of behavioral truth for her to latch on to and go to town on you.  

Your room isn't clean.  You did something bad in school.  You didn't do this right... . you didn't do that right... . you look just like your god damned father.

But she calms down.  Makes dinner. Buys you a birthday present you want.  Things seem fine and dandy but you are just waiting for the next shoe to drop.  which it eventually does - and you are right back to square one trying to figure out what you did wrong so you can correct it so she shuts the hit up.

You get to a point where you can finally leave home... . you set up your own family and promptly forget the abuse you just suffered for 18 years.  And Bamm!  You meet up with a woman who is undiagnosed and she does the same type of things to you - and you stay.

Because I was trained.

I took responsibility for the bad things I did in my marriage... . tried to learn from my mistakes... . look deep inside myself to see what was broke so I could fix it so I could stay married to this wonderful saint of a woman who has done nothing wrong and I have hurt because of my anger outbursts because she's a lying sack of hit who is just using you as a pawn in her own sick twisted view of life.

But we make up and all if fine with the world. until the next shoe.

when that shoe falls... . you check yourself first.  :)id I get drunk last night and drunk text her  sister telling her I always thought she had a nice ass?  Nope.  Good.  Cause that would be weird.  I don't even like her sister.  :)id I mess up and accidently call her father a druken excuse for a man?  Nope.  Good.  Okay what's the issue now.

And when she tells you some bullhit about something you did or said and you have 100% recollection of the event and the things she is saying you said or did you know for a fact didn't happen... . hell... . someone actually caught it on their camera phone - but you calmly and rationally try to determine why she is getting so upset especially when you can prove the argument is moot because it didn't happen - the argument, or incident, is just ramping up.  How dare you try and use logic to prove my lie?  And the more you try and defend yourself, the worse it gets - so you either eventually blow up ... . or end the conversation and storm off to a quiet place to ponder over and over how you could have made a mistake in such pure logic and fact.

Meanwhile because you blew up - she's mad and hates you.

Or if you just separated yourself to calm down - she's mad and hates you for abandoning her.

Or if you stay in the conversation - she's mad because you keep saying the same thing over and over and it's pissing her off (even though it is the truth and fact).

Things calm down.  Calmer head prevail.  You are still left wondering what the hit just happened but who cares.  Things are calm and she's making dinner.  Yummy.  Hadn't had dinner made in a while.  Oh... . what's this - sex?  Oh... . great.  Hadn't had that in a while either.  Things must be back to normal.

And they are... . for about a minute.

Then it all starts up again.  And you are left wondering what the heck is going on.

(She's not telling you she is secretly carrying on emotional affairs with people online, or at her new job.  She's not telling you she hates you and takes every opportunity she can to bad mouth you to anyone.  Maybe not "I HATE HIM"... . but certainly "Oh, I'm not happy because my husband doesn't do... . "

Heaven forbid you come home after a long day and just wanna sit and chill... . because you are not paying any attention to her.  Well... . I would pay attention to you but everytime I do, you cut off my nuts - and I kinda like my nuts.  So... . you can keep your nut cutting self over there... . I'm gonna sit over here where me and my nuts are safe.

This upsets her first... . because it's true.  And second, because you are not giving her what she wants.  But it's okay.  There is another shoe gonna drop.  That mutha trucker is gonna want some sex soon and when he does I'm gonna reject him so hard time after time and then dare him to say anything about it.  Because if he does I can call him controlling and only wants to have pay attention to me when he wants to have sex.

So you put that on the back burner to keep the peace as you try and go off and work, pay bills, have a life - but she's mad because we don't make enough money (she didn't work for over a decade) - but refuses to go get a job.  And if you try and force her to get a job - you are an ass and a sub-provider.  So you let her not work and you try and build up your business skills to land a better job with better pay.  But she's mad at that because you are spending too much time learning your craft or spending too much time involved with work projects.  So no sex for you!

You can't balance the needs of work (which artn't that much) with the over needs of home because you can't work less than you need to and still maintain a lifestyle which you want to grow and grow.  So what do you do?  Bhit gripe and complain that it is time to have a baby.

Nevermind you can't afford the mortgage on the house and you are stretched so thin you pick between paying cable or electric but not both... . let's have a baby.

We can't have a baby right now.  Let's plan this out and have some money saved or at least get out from under this big house and then we can do it.  But now she's upset because she wants a baby now and nothing is going to stop her.  So deconstructs the entire relationship - jumps into a new relationship with other dude... . and gets pregnant (but he is an ass and they have a miscarriage and all of a sudden I'm the one she comes crying to for support).

I could go on and on and on - but the bottom line is... . I stayed because I was programmed to stay and not see the mountain of lies poured on me every day from the moment I met her.

I stayed because I was raised in that chaos and it seemed familiar.  It screams of "if you love someone you will do and give all you can for them.  And if you leave becase they are acting a little off... . then you are a terrible person".

Bullhit.  It's abuse.

I'm not a terrible person. I'm a wonderful person.  My logic is impeccable.  My empathy for others is above reproach.  I just BELIEVED (or wanted to believe) that the person I was with was telling me the truth - even in the face of known lies.

":)on't throw the baby out with the bathwater?"  If the baby is satan... . yes... . throw that little phucker out quick!

Yes I finally got out and swore I wouldn't go back.  But the disconnect process was very difficult.  And it wasn't until very very recent that my understanding of what actually happened finally hit home.

I didn't see it because I didn't want to see it - and I was familiar with it... . and in some respects it felt good.

But it is wrong and unhealthy.

I'm going to stick with my new metaphor for a while.

Some people say you have to learn how to roll with the punches.  I say... . learn not to stand there and get hit.

[woodsposse]

Sorry if profanity isn't allowed.

Was venting.

[Tausk]

Sorry if profanity isn't allowed.

Was venting.

It's ok. the system autobots a disclaimer.

Thanks for posting.   Keep posting and reading.  Have you read the book about growing up and "Understanding the Borderline Mother"?  Even if you mother wasn't BPD, she's probably on the spectrum.   Congrats on your realizations.   It took me a long time to start to realize what you have written about.  And the board and book helped.

Nothing is definite regarding the Disorder and the Co-morbidity of the Disorders, but there was enough to relate to in the book to me understand how the messed up thought process was TRAINED into me.  And why I moved into an interaction with someone just as messed up.  As a child, I was a victim.  I couldn't leave.  It's all I knew as familiar and even correct.  And I survived in the way that I knew how.  By enabling my mother's insanity because that is how I learned to feel safe and worthy.   I was scared, angry, alone and the person who should have cared for me most, simply didn't have the capacity to care for me at the time.  

But with my ex, I could have walked away. We ended up in ever deepening destruction.  And I contributed to half the destruction.  But I had to learn why I felt my actions were the right thing to do, despite the fact that it just lead to destruction.  My life would have been more productive if I had just sat at home and watched TV.  In the end, despite my best intentions, the net result was affliction.

But it has changed for me.  I'm much more than I ever thought I could be.  I've made peace with my past (for the most part) and most of all I've learned to move past it and live the life that I could only have dreamed about.  Not necessarily perfect, but perfect in it's humanity, and with growth and love and awareness.

Learning about my FOO issues ultimately has brought me to the place of growth.  It's a blessing.  Based on what you wrote, I have great faith that you will get to where you want to be as well.  Keep posting, reading, learning, sharing, venting, screaming here on the board.   We understand each other and support each other.

We recover.

In support,

T

P.S. Are you seeing a Therapist?  It helped and helps me.  Even last month, I was describing my job as a one "where I have a ton of responsibility, but no real control or power."  And my T said in response, "It sounds like your childhood."

That's why I go see a professional outside source.  Brilliant.

[woodsposse]

I was in therapy starting early in the year we finally split... . through the split... . and then even afterwards with a couples counseling (she only came a few times - so I just continued on my own until my insurance ran out.  Trust me - when I'm back on my feet again... . that is the first stop).

Now that I am about three months out from actually hearing her voice or seeing her face... . (LC since then via texts) - and I recently decided  it is time to stop all together - my mind is slowing down even more and a lot of what my counselors were saying to and with me is sinking in.

They probably couldn't and wouldn't have come right out and said "your spouse sounds like she has Bpd'... . but I sure as heck wish they had.

My last councelor (the one we did some couples work with) did flat out suggest we don't speak for a bit.  My (soon to be) ex didn't like that too much - and thought I didn't like it either.  No.  I actually thought that was a great idea.  it was slow to implement - but I finally had to get to that point.

Now that I'm here... . I'm both happy and a little sad at the same time.

Happy because I finally got to where I have been trying to get for a long time.  That is at peace with letting it go.  But a little sad when I realize I'm letting go of something I never actually had (or said a different way... . someone I never really knew)

And even sadder when I realize that I knew the answer all along and second guessed myself every step of the way even down to wondering if I did everything I could possibly do to save us.

I liked what you wrote about your job and what your T said.

I never thought about it like that before.  I have had jobs I have HATED mostly because I had a metric tonne of responsibilities but no real control or power.  I would have been happier just being a little worker bee instead of putting me in some management role with no ability to actually do anything.

And as any Non knows... . we can do a lot of stuff.  Jeez the stuff we come up with on how to make stuff happen is legendary.  But we do all this great stuff and get little or no reward from it and you simply want to leave (but you can't if you need to work and support your family).  so we put up with the crap until we can make something better come along.

But... . here is the other side.  We are so tired from all the work we are doing at home to make that work (and not getting rewarded) - that sometimes the incentive to get out of the job we don't like isn't there becase we are too tired to care because we are burned out from homestuff.

Heaven help us if we actually can pull off a great job we like - like we aren't working... . we are having fun and getting paid.  OH  that is a hugh mistake being married to someone with BPD.  Now my attention is really off of her and I actually care and like my job and I'm loosing myself in my work.

Oh heaven help us if we actually can work... . have a homelife... . and have hobbies.  The ration of crap I had to put up with becaue I would get into some projects which revolved around some of my other passions and it took attention away from her - and heaven help me if my efforts are being seen in a positive lite by others.  Oh I get my ballon burst because who am I to be able to have things she can't have... . like being happy.

So cut at the knees again - and now I'm just tired.

But I have to go on.  I can't sit here apart from her and let her run my life... . again... . into the ground.


I could have stopped it years ago.  I didn't.  I wanted to.  I couldn't.

Now that I'm finally free of her - I can start to heal.  I mean really heal.

[Turkish]

I didn't see it because I didn't want to see it - and I was familiar with it... . and in some respects it felt good.

woodsposse, that's it. To me, dysfunction was normal. I dealt with it until the day I turned 18, and could sign a lease to move out. My moms not BPD, but exhibits several traits (severe depression, undiagnosed until the year I moved out, is the big one. Being dysfunctional, like attracts like, so we also hung out with other dysfunctional families.

I identified with about 70% of what you wrote. Mine broke up with me after I came home from working all weekend, when I would rather have been home with my kids, and needed to sit in my chair with a book to deflate. I found out some weeks later about her affair. Even so, I tried to work it out (even she admitted), but realizing the depth of her BPD attachment to her narc boy, it was a lost cause. It was over when it began. One kid was enough... . for a while. Then she begged and begged for another. I realized that if I didn't give her another, it would be over (she'd find someone else). Highly dysfunctional, and not the real issue. Against my better judgement, I conceded. I love D1 to death, but it was the beginning of an exponential decay. And a woman who reverted to teenage behavior (her mom saw it first... . I enabled it for a while. Big mistake).

Now I'm left with the realization that I was a Waif Rescuer. That's what I was taught, because in a way my mom is too. She takes value in rescuing her own abandoned child by proxy (my mom was orphaned at 11 by her mother, and father at 14, her father being a very evil man).

What I resolve at this point is to cut off my FOO with me, so my kids have a chance at peace. My control over it being passed down on their mothers side is limited, but I will do what I can.

[imstronghere2]

I don't have a lot of time to reply right now but we have very similar experiences.  Stay strong my friend.  No matter what, we will prevail.