Staying or Leaving, I havent a clue

[goingtostopthis]

Im not sure how to start this.    All I know is that I just went through one of the most tremendous devaluing ever with my boyfriend. Ive been talking about this on this board for about a month.   Ive been shock and in so much pain over how he had changed, basically over night.  Only to have him send me a chat message last night where he sounds just like he use to before all this happened. He says he's missing me now. Oh so nice, sharing pictures and such.  Im in shock again, but in a much happier way then before that's for sure.

                                       Ive been doing some studying on how to use good communication skills with someone with BPD and boy has it paid off.  You have to go on as if what triggered him before never happened. He's back to his normal now,  like he usually is,  which is really nice!   Oh, Im sure he hasnt forgotten about this recent big upset, and I wont be surprised if the residue of this will surface up in conversations and I will have a permanant brown mark on my fore head for it that he will probably need to point out to remind me of my limits with him.   I dont know this for sure but Im kind of guessing from knowing him and what Ive read.

                                        I have no idea how things are going to go now, but I do know that Ive learned a lot about myself and how I have conducted myself with him before, and how I am not going to do that again. I certainly know what he is sensitive about now. I know the warning signs and I know about setting boundaries so things will never excellate like they did this time.  It was Hell.  Hell on wheels.  This is a long distance internet relationship,  and all I can say is thank God for that.  We have met in person and have made plans to see each other again,   but at this point this is the least of my worries or plans.  I need more time to watch (skype) and see how he is.  I need time to put into practice everything Ive learned about BPD and see if this doesnt make a difference that I can confidently feel safe and good about in reference to him.   He needs help. or maybe its just certain triggers that get him to flip and beside this he perfectly functioning fine.  I dont know. Im going to take it slow and steady and not worry any more about being splitted on. I think I know what starts it for him and I plan on not going there ever again.     We will find out.   I know people call this being recycled.  I am at least confident enough to know now that once it starts,  have the power and skills now to stop it by setting boundaries.  And I will,  that is for sure.           

[goingtostopthis]

I think I need to move this thread.  No one is answering me and I don't know why.   Do I have feelings?   

[maxsterling]

Hi goingtostopthis -

This is the tough part about these relationships.  You know things were dysfunctional.  You know you were hurt, but then you see some kind of glimmer, and come back at it with a new understanding.  I'm glad you have learned a few things about BPD and know your boundaries and your limits before even contemplating going at this again.  Do you think you are strong enough to set consequences if he crosses the boundaries you set?

[goingtostopthis]

Yes I do.         I just dont understand why no one wanted to answer this post. It bothers me a lot and its making me wonder if maybe I need to find another forum.  I have no one to talk to about this sort of thing and I cant help but to feel a little angry about this right now.

[maxsterling]

Sorry you are feeling a little put off by a lack of reply.   It tough coming here with a serious situation and feeling like you aren't being heard because this is one place where people should hear us and offer support.  I can't make excuses for others, but for me personally my time on this board is limited to when I am not around my pwBPD, and that usually means at work.  And sometimes my mind is too busy with my own personal crisis with my pwBPD to really be of much help to others.

Online relationships are tricky, and I am guessing even trickier when one person has BPD.  I had an online relationship for awhile that was going great until suddenly I got the "I'm no longer interested, I met someone else, bye" email.  A few months later I got the chat request like nothing happened, and I told her that I could not continue the relationship like this.  A few months after that, another chat request, and I tried to resume the relationship, made plans on actually meeting in person, only for her to say that I was misinterpreting her desire to be with me, and her telling me I was hurting her.  Okay.  A few years later, I put 2+2, did a quick google search, and discovered she was married the whole time.

Not sure if my story helps, but I do know the dynamics of internet relationships can leave us vulnerable.  It sounds like you have a good plan to take things slow and see how things go.  What kind of things will you look for so that you know he is getting help, and not just running through a cycle again?

[goingtostopthis]

Thanks Max,    I appreciate you answering me.  I know how it goes.  I shouldnt take things personally. Im aware of the fact that Im a bit emotional now, so that accounts for my frustration. 

                          Im a little  nervous about this.   He has just text me again.  and its going fine. I just cant help but wonder if he has any clue as to what it was he has done to me.   I dont dare bring that up.   I thinking there will most likely be a forever gap in out relationship now.  You know an empty space in me that will never be filled in.    I doubt I will get any real apology from him. If I did, I think he would have to know that he  has some kind of problem to face, such BPD.   But I dont think he knows.  I think he pretends himself through his reality of himself and is so touchy about it.   Its like I said,   if anything remotely starts to happen again like before and I feel I have no control over it, like placing boundaries,  that's it.   Im going to tell him he needs to get himself help, and if he doesnt he will not hear from me again. I cant go through what I just did with him again.  It was just too horrible for words. He kept on warping and distorting reality and nothing I could say would change this.

                             Tonight we chatted again and it went very very well. I didnt think Id hear from him again for a while.  I thought he was going to play Mr. Aloof head on me. You know text me when ever he felt it regardless of weather he said he get back soon or not.  I really think I need to play this slow and not pursue him, or write him for a while unless he contacts me first or I say Im going to contact him.  I went no contact for week before this, the longest I have even not spoken to him. he didnt know if i was ever coming back or not and I felt it was time. I think it obviously had an effect on him since he has all ways been so sure tha I would be there,  all ways... . even there enough to abuse and get away with it, at least in his mind,  but then poof!  I was gone and I will not hesitate to be gone again if  have to.  This is 'My" boundary and if I have to use it I will.

                        I really think in many respects they are very much like children.  If you allow them to get away with their hit they arent going to stop. And I fell for it big time this time because I didnt know what was going on. I fell right into his trap of hell and he got a hell of  a lot of attention for it as well until I found this site , did my research and got a grip.  I hope things stay well for us,  now,  thats all I can say.  Im going to say a prayer to God  for this as well.             

[maxsterling]

Good to see your response.   It sounds like you are dealing with many of the same thoughts that we all come to at some point.  IF I may ask, how old is he?

 I thinking there will most likely be a forever gap in out relationship now.  You know an empty space in me that will never be filled in.    I doubt I will get any real apology from him. If I did, I think he would have to know that he  has some kind of problem to face, such BPD. 

This is a big issue, and something I am currently facing, too, and probably the main reason I am "undecided".  I'm told by numerous sources that a pwBPD will never fully "get" the hurt they caused you, never really issue a "from the heart" type apology, and that there will always be this hole or gap.  The key to being in a relationship with a pwBPD long term is to accept and let go of that hole, and accept that such hurt may happen again, and you have no control over that.  If you live with an expectation of a sincere apology or fear of the next outburst, you will be unhappy, and the relationship will ultimately fail.

I'm in this situation now.  I was tremendously hurt for a period of a few months last summer.  I was screamed at, I was verbally insulted in very hurtful ways, and I was physically hit.  She has since sought help.  But, the hole remains.  I still live with the fact that she is the person who has done the meanest things ever to me in my whole life.  Her behavior is also responsible for the top 3 scariest moments of my life.  And reading here and elsewhere I am warned that it will happen again, and her therapy will never fix her completely.  I'm not sure I can move on unless that hole is filled a little bit, and I fear that with the next rage I won't be able to continue at all.  She has apologized, but I don't think she understands the depth of how she hurt me.  If she did, I would see a radical change in her behavior or a strong motivation to make it up to me.  But she's still too absorbed in her own issues, and still makes some hurtful comments.

I was gone and I will not hesitate to be gone again if  have to.  This is 'My" boundary and if I have to use it I will. 

I think this is a healthy boundary you need to protect yourself and have some control over the relationship.  I know you have feelings for him, but at the same time you can't let yourself be trampled because you have feelings.  If he starts the BS again, you can tell him you won't participate, and either say he can come back when he is respectful, or else you won't talk to him.   

I really think in many respects they are very much like children. 

This is very true, and BPD is often described that way.  I've been told that it's like the part of their brain that regulates emotions never developed past a childhood stage.  I posted a thread "Smile" where I started to realize that one thing that seems to help me deal with my GF is to simply smile at her, in the same way I am told that you can calm a crying child by simply smiling.

I'm glad you have learned a little about this illness.  It does help answer some questions and gives you some tools to handle it so that things don't seem quite as frantic and confusing.  But for me at least, knowing about BPD hasn't taken away the hurt or pain.  Abuse is abuse, and I can't simply excuse it or let it go simply because she has an illness.

[goingtostopthis]

I have an up date on this if anyone is interested.

                           We chatted again tonight and once again it went very well. I feel he has boundaries up though.  We only talk in the evening close to his bed time so its only about an hour or so. its been kind of strange and akward how ever because before we would skype in the morning, chat during the day, chat when I came home form work and then skype until he went to bed.  He hasnt mentioned anything about skype and this is bothering me.  I havent seen him in over a month. I dont dare mention it because the last time I did he got all irritated and wasnt very nice about it, this is when we were fighting.  I feel I have to follow his lead and not over step it. When we were fighting he got this weird notion in his head that I was trying to control him. I suppose he thought that because I kept on trying to reason with him and defend myself,this was before I knew what was going with him.   

                                    Now he sounds real good,very nice and kind, but Im not happy right now because the conversations are tense for me.  I have to double check everything I say and with this new awareness I have to make sure I focus on him and what his needs are as far as validating him etc. Im basically still being myself though and talking about myself as well which he responds to very nicely. Ive read that this is usually how it goes after an episode. Im beginning to think that he doesnt want to skype me because he doesnt want to face me. He tells me misses me and has been thinking about me and I return the sentiment but thats as far as it goes.

               I dont really know for sure but I think he wants to feel like hes in control of everything now. Its obvious we are getting back to gether,  but if I were to say it he'd say no were not,not together anymore or something, we are just friends, probably hurt my feelings again. We were really good friends before, there not much difference. Its a long distance relationship, we cant even touch each other let alone have sex. If that isnt bad enough.  I figure just to take it slow and allow him to warm up to me slowly as I will towards him. Its tedious.   I know its probably too early for him to want to get on skype with me but it bothers me. It makes me feel like he really doesnt love me anymore,it hurts my feelings.  I know he does, it just makes me wonder if he really knows what he's doing and why?  He wants to play aloof and it looks to me like he wants to have everything with in his control now.  Its like hes still playing a game with himself more then anything.

                  I also became a little perplexed because the whole time we were fighting, him giving me the siltent treatment and then me finally going into no contact, He was playing the victim to this to the hilt. Telling me he was in pain and messed up, and sad,  la la la... . so I assumed the whole time he probably wasnt doing much of anything, its hard when you are depressed.  I was depressed.  it was tough even functioning.   Well, the first thing he shows me when he starts chatting with me again are all these stain glass windows he did in the last 3 weeks.  I was astounded! Hes an artist too.  I couldnt do any art. I was too devestated., mean while hes telling me how weak he is and in pain,  and he does all these windows. This does not make sense to me. Makes me think he wasnt in any real emotional pain at all! and was in fact feeding off my pain like I said before when he wouldnt talk to me and I was suffering with these heart felt message that he wouldnt answer. it was only after I quit and left him alone for a week, when he comes back telling me he missed me. I dont mean to be negative about this,but I wonder,   was he getting an ego high from all my un answered attention he was getting during that time?   Youd have to see the work he did.  My mouth was open. say what?   Am I crazy for wondering about this?  You know, maybe he was just keeping himself busy and doing what he loves to help himself feel better, like art therapy.  Could be. I dont think he really has much of a concept  as to how far away we are from each other now because he doesnt get the exstent of damage he did to me and if he cant do this how can he really care about me.,to really see me, or love me.   Hes loving himself and Im not here. He went away in his mind and left me on the side of the road in the rain. How can he love me if he doesnt care about my feelings.about what he did to me.  Im ok,   I know Im being negative, but I have go through this in order to go forward and  will.

[HealingForMe]

Thanks Max,    I appreciate you answering me.  I know how it goes.  I shouldnt take things personally. Im aware of the fact that Im a bit emotional now, so that accounts for my frustration.

Its ok to feel frustrated, thats a very normal response to what you are going through. Try to be a little patient, I've found it takes a little while for answers to start coming in

 

Im a little  nervous about this.   He has just text me again.  and its going fine. I just cant help but wonder if he has any clue as to what it was he has done to me.   I dont dare bring that up.   I thinking there will most likely be a forever gap in out relationship now.  You know an empty space in me that will never be filled in.    I doubt I will get any real apology from him. 

Its unlikely he does know the effect he's had on you as his BPD most likely won't allow it. I think you are right in not expecting any kind of apology from him.

Im going to tell him he needs to get himself help, and if he doesnt he will not hear from me again. I cant go through what I just did with him again.  It was just too horrible for words. He kept on warping and distorting reality and nothing I could say would change this.

That is so typical of a pwBPD. He most likely will also project his insecurities & shame onto you, blaming you for everything he has done.                          

I really think in many respects they are very much like children.     

Thats exactly right, their emotional development has been halted in the teens stage. He is like a mid teens in a mans body.

I figure just to take it slow and allow him to warm up to me slowly as I will towards him. Its tedious.   I know its probably too early for him to want to get on skype with me but it bothers me. It makes me feel like he really doesnt love me anymore,it hurts my feelings.  I know he does, it just makes me wonder if he really knows what he's doing and why?  He wants to play aloof and it looks to me like he wants to have everything with in his control now.  Its like hes still playing a game with himself more then anything.

Are you sure he loves you? My BPDexgf would tell me I was the only one she's been able to love, but it was all a lie. No person who loves another can treat them the way I was treated.

I also became a little perplexed because the whole time we were fighting, him giving me the siltent treatment and then me finally going into no contact, He was playing the victim to this to the hilt. Telling me he was in pain and messed up, and sad,  la la la... . so I assumed the whole time he probably wasnt doing much of anything, its hard when you are depressed.  I was depressed.  it was tough even functioning.   Well, the first thing he shows me when he starts chatting with me again are all these stain glass windows he did in the last 3 weeks.  I was astounded! Hes an artist too.  I couldnt do any art. I was too devestated., mean while hes telling me how weak he is and in pain,  and he does all these windows. This does not make sense to me. Makes me think he wasnt in any real emotional pain at all! and was in fact feeding off my pain like I said before when he wouldnt talk to me and I was suffering with these heart felt message that he wouldnt answer

Playing the victim is something BPDs do exceptionally well. You need to expect this to continue.

Also remember pwBPD are in constant emotional pain & turmoil, and they deal with this in a number of ways incl taking it out on us.

You will need to make a decision whether you want to accept this behaviour. You are lucky (& wise ) it is only an online r/s atm. It makes it much easier for you to end it. Remember, pwBPD are exceptionally good at drawing us in, making us feel so special, making us believe that they have changed. Go through some of the stories on here of all the things that go wrong, like the cheating, the lies, the projection, the accusations. Right now my BPDexgf is texting me accusing me of all sorts of horrible things. She has rallied friends against me, lying to them, manipulating them to make threats against me. This doesnt happen with all BPDs, but its a common theme. You need to decide if this is something you want to get into, or get out while you can, relatively unscathed. It is YOU who is important! You must put yourself first

[Tyrwhitt]

Hi, I've been dealing with BPD in a marriage for over 20 years and one piece of advice I should like to give you is to stop focussing on his dramas and spend time looking at yourself. I realise now that I was indeed the 'lonely child' drawn in to the needy one. I spent over a decade trying to be the fixer, trust me, it doesn't work. 

If you spend less time craving attention from him and allowing this to dominate your own well being and more time disentangling yourself and understand what there is in you that feels the need to tie your emotions in to a long distance difficult relationship rather than enjoying your here and now around you, you'll feel more in control of your own destiny.  You are clearly a thoughtful, caring and reflective person who will have a great deal to offer, your path need not be one of pain and angst but of happy and positive experiences.  He will find his own path and its unlikely to be the one we think they will choose, usually self destruction is somewhere in there.  And he'll take you with him if you let him.

Letting go is hard, there is often fear and a hole to fill. Understand the fear, know your self worth, and whatever you decide for yourself, you'll be doing it with your eyes open.  You may not feel you're at any crossroads, but they always come, and when they do don't accept any projection from him but do what's right for you, you deserve it.

[goingtostopthis]

Hi, I've been dealing with BPD in a marriage for over 20 years and one piece of advice I should like to give you is to stop focussing on his dramas and spend time looking at yourself. I realise now that I was indeed the 'lonely child' drawn in to the needy one. I spent over a decade trying to be the fixer, trust me, it doesn't work.  

If you spend less time craving attention from him and allowing this to dominate your own well being and more time disentangling yourself and understand what there is in you that feels the need to tie your emotions in to a long distance difficult relationship rather than enjoying your here and now around you, you'll feel more in control of your own destiny.  You are clearly a thoughtful, caring and reflective person who will have a great deal to offer, your path need not be one of pain and angst but of happy and positive experiences.  He will find his own path and its unlikely to be the one we think they will choose, usually self destruction is somewhere in there.  And he'll take you with him if you let him.

Letting go is hard, there is often fear and a hole to fill. Understand the fear, know your self worth, and whatever you decide for yourself, you'll be doing it with your eyes open.  You may not feel you're at any crossroads, but they always come, and when they do don't accept any projection from him but do what's right for you, you deserve it.

  Thank You for the kind note.  

                I understand what you're telling me in regards to focusing more on myself and spending less time craving attention from him. I feel that I am at a kind of cross roads now.  I spend time last night lamenting to myself over how I really wanted a real boyfriend, someone I could touch, someone who would hug and kiss me. A real person more or less. I dont exspect this any time soon,   but it was mere fact that I allowed myself to express this that was healthy thinking for me.  

               I havent been happy the way things are now. Who could be. He was going to try to fly over here and see me ,this is what I was waiting for,  but now since Ive been devalued ,I think this is the last thing on his mind.  Im still chatting with him and its still been nice, but there's something flat about our conversations,

almost boring.  Yesterday all he did was complain on and on about all his aliments. This is a regular thing. It doesnt matter what I suggest to help him feel better,  he wont do it. I heard somewhere this is typical BPD's.

I really think he wants me to swoon all over him like a mother and quite frankly this is tiresome especially when its all ways the same aliments, day after day with never any solutions to help himself feel better. When there are easy ones, like take a few aspirin.  ?  I think he wants me to feel sorry for him and Im tired of it. it gets old.

                           I have to come to terms with what Im feeling about this, and the above story about his aliments is one of them. I didnt mind this before so much because we were all ways spending time on Skype. At least I got to see him.  I really enjoyed this.  Now he hasnt said a word about it.  The last time I asked him it was during his mean time and his reaction was mean.  It was like I wasnt worth his time to do this anymore because it hurts his eyes.  It occurred to me last night how hurt my feelings are now that he hasnt even mentioned wanting to do this even though our conversations have been good. I just kind of feel like, What?  You dont even want to see me?  This hurts.      

                          I mentioned me coming to see him some day,  and ordinarily he would be ,oh I dream of the day babe! or something like that,  last night he says,  that would be nice.  Then he started talking about getting a dog and I said hed be great with a dog of his own,  and then some how this turned into if I were to see him ,he'd have to put a muzzle on my mouth so I wouldnt bite him, and then when I was good hed give me a treat as a BIG bone. and then he laughs ha ha ha... .  I didnt think it was funny and I didnt laugh.  So I wont bite him?

                          God!  Hes the one who needs the muzzle. Hes the one Im afraid he will bite me! What did he just do to me a month ago.  I have never seen such meaness in my life.  So, it looks like he still thinks that Im the problem in the relationship.  No accountabilty from him at all.  That's what it looks like even now after this time.    Its interesting how you find things like this out just from simple little thoughtless, insensitive,arrrogant comments.      Maybe I took this too seriously and should just let it go.   We ended our conversation quickly after that.  Well, I have to go, I said, things to do.  It ended nicely with him saying he'll talk to me this morning. Its morning now,  Am I there?,     No,  Im here.   Because he said that Ive decided Im busy this morning.  Ill show up when I show up. I have work to do.  Maybe he'll get the message, maybe not/All I know if he says anything that sounds negative about me, Im not going to be there for awhile.

              And yes,   I have my own life and every day its becoming more and more solely mine. This you can count on.   Thanks