Pros and Cons of a conversation with exH's exgf

[Depression = 72% of members]

I've seen this come up now and again - the temptation to contact pwBPD's ex so thought I'd share my own experience.

Brief background - exH and I married long-term with children, weeks after our first separation he's seriously involved with someone from past (not a gf) that he'd bumped into (call her Jane), years of going back and forth between the two of us then he finally leaves me, starts dating someone weeks later and marries her months after that.  I've posted here because I did do a lot of soul searching before contacting Jane and I am aware that whilst it was in part to apologise, I was also trying to have some of my needs met.  I was honest about that.  I think it's also appropriate to Personal Inventory as the contact has lessened my anger towards him because it has increased my detachment from him.  I'm still finding it hard to know that I wasn't 'special' to him, I was in no way different to Jane.  One of the reasons I'd held on despite this other relationship was my conviction, reinforced by his words, that our relationship was primary and his with her was a 'distraction', a running away from our issues - but he was using me to run away as well.  And what I have to work on is what I was running away from by continuing to put so much into trying to 'save' my relationship with him when it was obvious to everyone else that nothing was really changing.

When exH married again, I was by that time 'done' so that relationship had very little effect in comparison with his relationship with Jane that was going on whilst I was in the midst of the FOG and really struggling - a lot easier to focus on Jane than on exH; easier than facing the reality that he was a man who was emotionally abusing two women and hurting his children.  When he disappeared the last time and got involved again so quickly, it was so much more obvious that whilst Jane and I certainly had some stuff to deal with, his abandoning us both and the way he treated us when he was with us was more to do with his issues than our 'failures'.

The point of posting was to say that being in touch with her has been a healing experience - it could have been the opposite and caused more damage so this post is not an advert for getting in touch or for responding to an ex getting in touch, it's just my experience.  The correspondence confirmed that his treatment of her was very similar to his treatment of me, almost down to exact phrases or actions.  It was quite spooky reading what she'd written and knowing that I had journal entries or unsent letters to ex that almost mirrored her words.  Sometimes on here, you read posts that states "were you dating my ex" because our stories can be so similar - in this case, it was true!  My ex isn't diagnosed as a pwBPD so I did wonder at times if the traits I saw were just in relation to me because I had hurt him/failed him.

It was also healing because I could finally put Jane in the past in a compassionate way.  I have had almost no closure from my ex after a near 30-year relationship and being able to say sorry to Jane and her to me whilst both recognising the damage caused by our mutual ex has helped.

The downside - it's still not easy knowing that another woman loved your husband deeply at a time when you did too; that he discussed marriage with her weeks after talking about commitment with me; finding out that he's lied when that was the one 'BPD' trait I thought he didn't have; having it reinforced that the grief I feel is not the loss of him but the loss of who I thought he was all this time - that's still quite hard to take in at times.  I was also conscious that what I was sharing was upsetting to her at times though she also expressed her gratitude that we'd been in touch.  We knew that we could go on swapping tales for a long time to come but we decided to stop contact fairly quickly because we recognised that whilst it had been healing, it was dragging us back into focussing on him rather than on the new lives we'd started to build for ourselves.

We both hope his new partner will have an easier time and both (when we are feeling good) hope that ex is finally happy.  Having said that, I did have a dream about Jane and I both turning up to an event where my exH was speaking and enjoyed the look of panic on this face  

I was fortunate that it worked out for us but it could very easily have gone the other way for either or both of us.

Claire

[clairedair]

I've seen this come up now and again - the temptation to contact pwBPD's ex so thought I'd share my own experience.

Brief background - exH and I married long-term with children, weeks after our first separation he's seriously involved with someone from past (not a gf) that he'd bumped into (call her Jane), years of going back and forth between the two of us then he finally leaves me, starts dating someone weeks later and marries her months after that.  I've posted here because I did do a lot of soul searching before contacting Jane and I am aware that whilst it was in part to apologise, I was also trying to have some of my needs met.  I was honest about that.  I think it's also appropriate to Personal Inventory as the contact has lessened my anger towards him because it has increased my detachment from him.  I'm still finding it hard to know that I wasn't 'special' to him, I was in no way different to Jane.  One of the reasons I'd held on despite this other relationship was my conviction, reinforced by his words, that our relationship was primary and his with her was a 'distraction', a running away from our issues - but he was using me to run away as well.  And what I have to work on is what I was running away from by continuing to put so much into trying to 'save' my relationship with him when it was obvious to everyone else that nothing was really changing.

When exH married again, I was by that time 'done' so that relationship had very little effect in comparison with his relationship with Jane that was going on whilst I was in the midst of the FOG and really struggling - a lot easier to focus on Jane than on exH; easier than facing the reality that he was a man who was emotionally abusing two women and hurting his children.  When he disappeared the last time and got involved again so quickly, it was so much more obvious that whilst Jane and I certainly had some stuff to deal with, his abandoning us both and the way he treated us when he was with us was more to do with his issues than our 'failures'.

The point of posting was to say that being in touch with her has been a healing experience - it could have been the opposite and caused more damage so this post is not an advert for getting in touch or for responding to an ex getting in touch, it's just my experience.  The correspondence confirmed that his treatment of her was very similar to his treatment of me, almost down to exact phrases or actions.  It was quite spooky reading what she'd written and knowing that I had journal entries or unsent letters to ex that almost mirrored her words.  Sometimes on here, you read posts that states "were you dating my ex" because our stories can be so similar - in this case, it was true!  My ex isn't diagnosed as a pwBPD so I did wonder at times if the traits I saw were just in relation to me because I had hurt him/failed him.

It was also healing because I could finally put Jane in the past in a compassionate way.  I have had almost no closure from my ex after a near 30-year relationship and being able to say sorry to Jane and her to me whilst both recognising the damage caused by our mutual ex has helped.

The downside - it's still not easy knowing that another woman loved your husband deeply at a time when you did too; that he discussed marriage with her weeks after talking about commitment with me; finding out that he's lied when that was the one 'BPD' trait I thought he didn't have; having it reinforced that the grief I feel is not the loss of him but the loss of who I thought he was all this time - that's still quite hard to take in at times.  I was also conscious that what I was sharing was upsetting to her at times though she also expressed her gratitude that we'd been in touch.  We knew that we could go on swapping tales for a long time to come but we decided to stop contact fairly quickly because we recognised that whilst it had been healing, it was dragging us back into focussing on him rather than on the new lives we'd started to build for ourselves.

We both hope his new partner will have an easier time and both (when we are feeling good) hope that ex is finally happy.  Having said that, I did have a dream about Jane and I both turning up to an event where my exH was speaking and enjoyed the look of panic on this face  

I was fortunate that it worked out for us but it could very easily have gone the other way for either or both of us.

Claire

[seeking balance]

Hi Claire,

Thanks for sharing this story and your inventory as it relates.  You are right, it could have been real easy to stay mad at "Jane" - forgiveness and understanding probably helped you both in gaining more closure.

You and she had a relationship even if you didn't meet due to exH putting you "against" each other.  Taking your own power back in a compassionate and mature way - very good 

Peace,

SB

[clairedair]

You and she had a relationship even if you didn't meet due to exH putting you "against" each other.  Taking your own power back in a compassionate and mature way - very good 

That was exactly how I felt - that Jane and I had had a relationship by virtue of the fact that my exH kept triangulating us.  Being in touch allowed me to deal with the guilt I felt about how I'd viewed her when she was in the same position as I was.  It also allowed me part of the closure I needed.  I felt quite selfish making contact but part of me thought, rightly, that she must also have been left with questions.  It also gave us back our power - he had us both into thinking that the other was one of the main reasons we couldn't be with him and we never met back then (though I asked to meet her).

Ironically, my exH once told me "you'd like her" - I was furious at the time but actually, he was right!  She's compassionate, funny, attractive, intelligent and enthusiastic about life despite what's happened.  That was something else that was validating - that even someone with all her intelligence and experience of life could be drawn in by him.  It sometimes scares me how 'clever' he is.  I don't see him as someone who does it all consciously which in some ways is even scarier. 

Claire

[winston72]

Thanks for your story, Claire.  The phrase "facing the facts" has been quite instructive for me over the past few months.  Inquiring, looking, observing, confronting, reflecting... . all these things result from a simple quest to learn the facts and then to "face" them with openness and grace.  Your story is a great example of this. 

I struggle with the tension between detaching and facing facts.  Perhaps for me the struggle should be to learn how to detach as a result of facing the full truth.  I think that is what your story conveys.  I spend most of my time on the Leaving board where there is an emphasis on no contact and detachment.  But, as your story illustrates, sometimes more information leads to more truth/facts which leads us to a better place ourselves.

Facing facts is an important theme for me as I will avoid painful emotional/relationship truths. 

[clairedair]

Hi Winston,

I can't be completely 'no contact' as we have children but as they are young adults with their own phones, contact is minimal.  This has been helpful but I am aware that it's not always helpful to our kids.  I do struggle with the best balance between detaching and dealing with the facts.  I don't want to teach my kids that avoidance is the way to deal with painful truths but I do need to ensure that I protect myself emotionally so I can be present emotionally for them.

Reading the facts about what had happened in his relationship with another woman was very difficult but ultimately freeing.  I needed to be ready to face these facts though - if I'd read what she had to say even six months ago, I think it would have set me back.

Today I met his new wife - not an arranged meeting.  I had to 'face the fact' of seeing my exH of many years relaxed and joking with new wife.  it was another thing I'd managed to avoid and I knew that today was an opportunity that wouldn't come around again soon.  I am glad I faced the fear of this (see my other post) but again, it would have set me back had it happened earlier. 

Sometimes I think that it's two way - the more I face facts, the more I heal and am able to face the next round of facts.  But there have been times when I tried to face things too soon and it ended up making things worse.  I was fortunate that I was in a way able to choose today to speak to his new wife and him. 

"openness and grace" - that's also part of the equation isn't it - too often facing the facts has left me with a great deal of anger and it's taken time to put things in perspective, reflect on my own part and try to let go.

Thanks for your insightful post.

take care,

Claire

[winston72]

Hey Claire... . so artfully expressed!  Thank you.

My, that is a step from a hard fact to a still harder one!  It does seem that that one level of awareness and change invites the next level.  I suppose that is a description of growth itself.  Actually "seeing" some of these facts, even if via email, is most transformative for me.  It makes perfect sense to me that communicating with Jane would have been both painful and empowering. 

Yikes!  Just reading your post once again I see that you just saw your exh and his new wife today.  That would be hard.  But, I suppose that confronting it as you did does can be liberating.

Facing things too soon... . yes, that is true.  It can be destructive to encounter hurt that is beyond my current means to handle.  I have been in that spot too many times.  I become so concerned with my tendency to avoid that I often force myself into situations that are beyond me.  Kind of funny to type!  But so true.  Part of my ongoing maturity is to find a natural pace and to allow myself to move at that pace without criticizing myself.

I vote for you and Jane to show up at one of his speaking engagements!  YouTube, please! 

I am glad that you had a good exchange with her... . it is empowering.  It defuses his lies and manipulation and puts you in a good place for your emotions to flow in the right direction... . because you know the facts!  And, it seems as though this has happened and is happening very wonderfully. 

All the best to you... .

[clairedair]

I become so concerned with my tendency to avoid that I often force myself into situations that are beyond me.  Kind of funny to type!  But so true.  Part of my ongoing maturity is to find a natural pace and to allow myself to move at that pace without criticizing myself.

Hi Winston,

I did this too and came a cropper more than once.  Finding a 'natural pace' isn't easy but preferable to pushing ourselves into situations that just cause us more damage and then criticising ourselves for not being as 'strong' as we feel we should have been. 

I once read an article that contained the phrase "the tyranny of shoulds".  We are very good at telling ourselves "I should be happier" " I should be able to deal with this better" "I should have moved on by now" "I should be more perfect" etc.

I have been on a bit of a 'downer' today after meeting with ExH and his new wife.  Annoyed that he is occupying my thoughts too much because "I should be indifferent after all this time" but I am trying to be gentle with myself. 

Hope you find your own 'natural pace'.

take care

Claire

[patientandclear]

Claire -- I'm wondering how "Jane" felt about your ex finding & marrying another woman after he split with you.  Was she expecting and hoping for them to resume their relationship?  Was she also hurt? Or had she reached the conclusion that she didn't want to pursue anything with him?

This is a conversation I'd love to have with the woman my ex alternated with me the past few years.

[clairedair]

Hi p&c

She had made decision that she had to end it but it was not what she wanted.  She had many questions when he later remarried. For various reasons, I think I was less affected by the wedding despite being with him for decades. My issues are mainly around the way he left the last time and the effect of his behaviour then and subsequently on our children.  I don't like this about myself - I feel I haven't forgiven him yet and it's causing me more pain than him! 

We got together again after divorcing so when he left for the final time, he was free to marry and did so very quickly. We had not been divorced during the times he was with Jane so couldn't marry her at that time.

It makes sense to me that he didn't stay with either of us because of his shame around how he'd treated us (though easier for him to have us feeling that we weren't enough in some way). instead of marrying Jane (as discussed), it was more comfortable to dive into another relationship that was waiting for him when he left me and then marry quickly.  My theory (and I don't know for sure what's been going on his head) is that his new relationship had experienced no hurts so he felt 'safer' about committing to his new wife.

I met him with his new wife the other week (after I started this post) - very surreal to be in their company for all sorts of reasons but especially after the contact and shared experience with exgf.  I was thinking - if you only knew ... . But I couldn't burst her bubble and there's always the possibility that their relationship is healthy and will be in future.

What do you imagine saying to the other woman if you did have contact?  Have your feelings about her changed over the years? I initially directed my anger at Jane until I realised she and I were no different really. 

Take care

Claire

[winston72]

Hello... . just going back and reading some old threads.  I am wondering if there has been any evolution in your thinking or any new events with you and this topic.

Also, I had to chuckle when I read this line from you.  You must be a sweet and optimistic person... .

But I couldn't burst her bubble and there's always the possibility that their relationship is healthy and will be in future.

That, Claire, is... . optimistic!  And highly, highly unlikely.

[clairedair]

Hi Winston,

yes - my thinking/feeling has changed since I last wrote.  Not about the contact with exgf - that has been very healing.

Where things have changed is in my feelings about meeting him and his new wife.  I was fine on the day I first met her and saw them together.  Afterwards though, I felt that I had not been 'congruent' (therapy lingo!) in my behaviour towards him.  I don't have an issue with his new wife.  I do still have a lot of anger and hurt around in relation to him. I felt that being so friendly to him allowed both him and new wife to think that everything was OK.  That everything was amicable when the damage wrought is still costing me dearly (emotionally, physically and financially).  Within a fortnight,  I met him at an event that involved one of our children.  I hadn't realised he'd be there (as was new wife) and this time I had a panic attack and had to leave.  He tried more than once to engage with me, buy me a drink etc and I just couldn't speak to him. It wasn't a case of refusing to speak to him or giving him the silent treatment - my throat restricted and I thought I was going to be sick. 

I felt bad afterwards and even worried that his new wife would think I was the one who was 'hot and cold' but the interesting thing is that it didn't take me nearly as long to recover after that meeting than after the one where I had been friendly.  I saw him again at another child's sports event just this week - again unexpected - and I walked away from him.  Not like me.  I sensed his hurt both times I've not engaged (I know his facial expressions well) and I confess that, in the midst of all the tumultuous feelings, a bit of me still (STILL!) wanted to give him a hug.  But what I wanted more was someone to give me a hug.

As you spotted, I am an optimistic person (I think this can be a disadvantage at times  ) and I want to be one of those divorced people who is amicable with ex-partner but just now,whenever I see him or hear him, I am just flooded with memories of being called names, left and 'replaced'.  I can't remember the good times so much.  I tried to explain it to one of my kids as being like PTSD.  I just want to sit down with him and tell him how it all felt/feels and but I know that won't happen so how do I get past the trauma?  We've been very low contact but I've now seen him or heard from him about 4 or 5 times in last month and I'm not as far forward in my healing as I'd hoped.

But I couldn't burst her bubble and there's always the possibility that their relationship is healthy and will be in future.

That, Claire, is... . optimistic!  And highly, highly unlikely.

You're probably right.  There's a dark part of me wanting it all to go up in smoke (those indignant voices in my head that say "why should everything work out for him" but there's also a part that feels he's still not settled and happy and I worry about what will happen.   I have realised since the last couple of encounters that I don't really want him to be miserable.  I must still care enough for that.  I also don't want his misery to impact me and our children so that's probably why I want to believe that their relationship is healthy and will be in future.

How are things with you.  Did reading old threads help?

take care,

Claire

[winston72]

Hey Claire!  So nice to hear from you.  I apologize for this delayed response.  I was traveling when your message was posted and I have been on the run ever since trying to catch up.

The gag reflex that you described in your post is very familiar to me.  I would experience it every time I saw my mother over the last ten years of her life.  The length of time it took to start when I was her in presence grew shorter and shorter over the years until it was almost instantaneous.  I literally had a difficult time breathing and felt that a panic attack would start if I stayed too long in her presence.  I don't have all the answers to what was going on, but a good summary would be that I had a large amount of hurt and unexpressed emotions in my relationship with her.  I was completely unable to raise them with her in any way.  Unexpressed, they simply overwhelmed me.  My brother and sister had ceased any contact with her because of this.  I kept in contact and this was the result. 

As you wrote, there is a deep well of hurt... . and it is an active well!  I don't know if there is such a thing, but it sounded right!  You are still suffering emotionally, physically and financially.  So, no wonder there is a strong reaction when you are in his presence.  It is not just a reaction to past hurts, he is a source of ongoing pain.  Your reactions are normal.  I suspect your body is telling you something... . that there is a lot of hurt still within you that needs some attention. 

I am fortunate that my ex in the broken romantic relationship that brought me to this site lives across the country and we will not encounter one another.  But, overall, in response to the relationship and certainly from the traumatic relationship with my parents (both of whom passed away in the past few years), my path forward has been to strive to be genuine to what I am feeling and to be a bit less concerned with how others around me perceive me.  Man, as I type this I am laughing at myself!  I have so far to go... . nonetheless, I am on that path and trying!

When I read your post I want to encourage you to be "congruent".  Feel whatever it is you are feeling and acknowledged the complexities.  He hurt you.  He still does.  Maybe you want to talk to him, maybe you don't.  Do what is best for you.  That is what will lead you to a place of peace and amicable-ness (I am making up some words in this post!).  Trying to be amicable outwardly when you are not feeling that way won't work... . it already doesn't!  His new wife will get plenty of information about him from him.  You don't need to think about how she perceives you and therefore how she might interpret what happened between you and your ex.  He approaches you at an event, you don't want to talk to him, you walk away, he is hurt.  It is not like you... . well, it is now!  And that is just fine!  It wasn't like you before he betrayed you and hurt you.  It is like you, or anyone else, to be emotionally raw after those things happened.  Small talk is no longer so small.  So, do what is best for you.  Maybe ideally you tell him that you have anger and hurt that you don't want to express in that moment so you leave... . or maybe you don't say anything to him.  It is okay to be you, even if it is a you that is new. 

It is okay to want him to fail... . to not success, but also to be concerned that his failure not disrupt your life and that of your kids.  Your relationship with him is complex and conflicted, so your current thoughts likely will be also.  That makes sense!  He is not going to suddenly be a sunny, emotionally connected person, so his relationship won't be either.  That is not a prediction, that is just an observation.  Not going to happen... . it does not just spontaneously erupt in any of us. 

I don't find it particularly "dark" that you are not enthusiastic about him being happy.  That sounds a little unrealistic, doesn't it?  We do not want to see people who wrong us to prosper.  Pretty normal.  We can get neurotic if we ignore our hurt and try to shape our feelings to root for them... . or we can become neurotic if we become consumed by our hurt and their demise.  But, to hope he hurts a bit, but not too much so it doesn't become a problem for you... . that sounds okay to me!

Your healing might not best be measured by having "good" feelings about him and his new wife.  It might best be measured by feeling good about yourself, defining boundaries of comfort for relating to him (or not), and accepting whatever feelings are within you.  That will lead you to a place with more stable footing for yourself as you relate to him in the future.

Thanks again for the update.