The mystery of the red backpack.

[qcarolr]

I cleared out the last motel room we provided for DD27. She was evading the police on for warrants for not complying with her probation - harassment charges from exbf. It was crazy for us to be paying for this room at this point anyway. Crazy to feel obligated to go get her stuff from the motel. She had others in room with her - they were calling motel to get their stuff from her room. She was calling saying everything there was hers, don't give anything to anyone that was calling.

There was a woman, C, that had left her contact info at office for her stuff. She had been in room when housekeeping was there and set aside her stuff beside door, with her name on it. I accepted that it was her stuff - a big red backpack and a couple of smaller black bags. I checked the black bags and did not recognize any of it as DD's. I left the red backpack in the motel room for C. Besides, DD never carried that big of a backpack anytime I saw her in the past 5 years.

Now DD is saying (she is in jail and I take one call per day) that was her backpack with her best clothes and all her special things in it. And C was not allowed in her room at the motel and 'people' were angry at her about this and taking her stuff was how to get back at her. This came up because she wanted me to get a phone number that was in her backpack. She had been talking about a backpack for days - and yet when I saw her a couple weeks go she was complaining how her backpack got stolen.

I know I need to let this go, yet it is stuck in my head. I know this was not my responsibility to understand. Yet my pattern for many years has been to believe others and not trust DD. Her story is always so inconsistent. This post is really not about the red backpack. It is about my distrust of DD, and her ongoing statements that dh and I take the 'other side' in so many instances. So she does not trust us either.

My personal place, that I do not want to put onto others, is a detachment from 'stuff'. Things can be replaced. So many have lost so much in our areas from natural disasters - wildfires and floods - in the past few years.

With DD there is an assumption that she fills up an emptiness inside with stuff. Lots of it. Her room and part of my family room is full of it. Massive amounts of clothing and trinkets. Much of it from thrift stores and dumpster diving near the local college. I feel that I do not have the 'right' to just get rid of her things. She is adamant about my not getting rid of her things (since she was about 4 years old and discovered her infant and toddler toys were gone - I donated them at Christmas).

I am not sure what I am asking for with this thread. A conflict between this sense of what is 'right' and getting her stuff out of my life and my home. And somehow thinking this will magically get her out of my head.

What do you all think?

qcr

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[KateCat]

qcarole,

I am a silent admirer only of your wisdom and your efforts (I've got no kids, but my husband is diagnosed schizophrenic), but I want to express the opinion that the red backpack is very important. I don't see it as "magical thinking" at all to imagine that triumphing over the red backpack will help you move forward on your path.

The red backpack could be the last struggle of its particular kind for you if you hold tight to the resolve you've been showing not to be the custodian of your daughter's possessions in the future.

I think that items like the red backpack must always have the power to catapult caring family members straight into the boundary-less vortex of a homeless person's battles. The idea of "possession" seems so fraught in these situations. Such a "who's who?" and "what's what?" So that you find yourself struggling right at ground zero along with your daughter and her friends and their shifting alliances. And you have to face other people who take temporary possession of these items, like motel owners. . . . And then there's the legal definition of "possession" when it comes to ownership of drugs and who backpacks belong to.

Yikes all around!

Something tells me all your hard work is about to pay off and that the red backpack has the power to set you free. 

[crumblingdad]

So is the Red Backpack gone with C?  Or is it still in the motel or do you have it?

I can totally understand being torn with the whole dilemma and your trust of your DD and the symbolism.  I think it makes a lot of sense.  I also think I see someone who's really focused on letting go with detachment and agree with KateCat that it is a big deal and symbolic of your journey in which the answers to your unasked questions are coming to you and it's wonderful your making the journey.

[lever.]

One thing I relate to here is the breakdown of trust. My DD told lots of stories which were untrue when she was ill and later I believed other people over her when the other people turned out to be untrustworthy. I feel bad about that but I think its understandable where there is a long history of untruth. I'm not sure if the lies are deliberate or delusional.

Regarding "stuff". I think a lot of us have worked hard to detach from anything not absolutely essential... However the BPD person feels insecure and has a poor sense of identity and a sense of emptiness. To them "stuff" becomes very important to give a sense of security and continuity.

This sounds like a conflict between your needs which requires to be resolved.

I don't think you should feel obliged to store lots of trash but it might help her to see that you had taken care with and stored things which have most significance for her.

I'm not sure if I have answered your question.

Regarding the backpack you did more than you could be expected to do. Your DD is fortunate that you stand by her through thick and thin and youalso need to look to your own emotional needs

[KateCat]

[T]the BPD person feels insecure and has a poor sense of identity and a sense of emptiness. To them "stuff" becomes very important to give a sense of security and continuity.

Is there a way your daughter could have her own permanent locker with her own key, in order to make sure you're not ever the "bailiff" again for her stuff? (I think maybe you're working on something like that right now.) I totally agree she needs her stuff to be secure. 

[Thursday]

qcarolr-

This post is really not about the red backpack. It is about my distrust of DD, and her ongoing statements that dh and I take the 'other side' in so many instances. So she does not trust us either.

I feel that I do not have the 'right' to just get rid of her things. She is adamant about my not getting rid of her things (since she was about 4 years old and discovered her infant and toddler toys were gone - I donated them at Christmas).

I am not sure what I am asking for with this thread. A conflict between this sense of what is 'right' and getting her stuff out of my life and my home. And somehow thinking this will magically get her out of my head.

Maybe this reply to your post will be too much armchair quarterbacking, however, since I've felt a bit of this myself maybe it's really ok to answer straightforwardly.

After years of being lied to, having my stuff stolen and sold for her enjoyment and maladaptive behaviors, never having a straight question being answered in a straight manner, having my privacy invaded, being yelled at when I questioned her about any of the above... . Yeah! I started my lower contact with BPDSD22 with such a lack of trust for her I never thought I could ever trust her again. I wasn't sure I even wanted to trust her again.

But this lack of trust has changed. What changed it was the lower contact... . which allows me to have greater compassion because my chain isn't being yanked with regularity. I am fully human and flawed and darn-it, when someone treats me poorly I lose respect, trust and a variety of other positive relationship "must haves". I do want you to understand though, the compassion came back naturally because it is in my nature to be kind. Same as you. Once I removed myself from being a captive to the tornado I spun free, healed the wounds and was spun around so much I actually landed in a better place to keep my eyes on things.

What changed my lack of trust in her has also been the changes my SD has made in how she copes with her life and how she proceeds. There is little to cause conflict between the two of us anymore... . I'm not overseeing her, not responsible for her. If she oversleeps and runs the risk of losing her job, I don't even know anymore and with that lower contact comes relief and more importantly, a ditch that needs a bridge to cross over, to go back and forth.

It is the same with my non DD---to get me over being her uber-involved close MOMMIE we had to part and she had to really start taking care of herself before all of that was really OK. We need to have two camps, not just one that I'm still trying to run. Her life, my life. And a bridge to walk towards each other. So it makes sense that it is harder for our pwBPD, to get this separation since we have spent so much time micromanaging them. But, you gotta stop.

How conflicting is it to sort of see what "the deal is" and then to be lied to... . and all while you are trying so hard to do the right thing? It's appalling really... . you are saving her butt left and right but still... . you displease her. She wants what she wants when and how she wants it. And you aren't doing it right.     

You need enough space so that you can regain some equilibrium, so that you can find NORMAL again. This is all such a far cry from NORMAL.

It seems like you don't feel it's right to get rid of her things because you are a genuinely NICE and reasonable person. She has landed herself in situations that keep her from being able to do this for herself so you take care of what she ditched or failed to take care of... . and I worry that she ditches things so easily because you are so at the ready to take care and be responsible or you simply see her limitations with a clarity she herself has no awareness of. It's so hard to clip these little strings, strings that really don't amount to a hill of beans to anyone except to her because she can pull at you with them. It sounds like she is pulling at whatever she can.

In my fantasy place, where I can say and do whatever I would want to say, Seriously? I've got bigger things to worry about than the red-backpack. (grand-daughter, home, job, spiritual community, self-care, bills, and more and more and more) And seriously, so does she-sobriety, staying out of trouble, gaining your trust again, probation, having a life that she manages on her own and more and more and more. Ugh, so tangled.

Some things we do for our Dear Kids are just hard to stop but with distance... . with time... . these paradigms can change and do change.

These paradigms NEED to change. Along with a myriad of other changes your daughter could make, needs to make, should make... . You not being in charge of her anymore is certainly at the top or near the top of the list. And a phone number that she didn't keep track of and allowed herself to lose should probably be closer to the bottom. Or something like that.

My personal place, that I do not want to put onto others, is a detachment from 'stuff'. Things can be replaced. So many have lost so much in our areas from natural disasters - wildfires and floods - in the past few years.

Yes, the above shows us how you can see the big picture. And I see how careful you are to claim this as your "personal place" but truthfully Q- doesn't this seem... .

right? To value people more than stuff, to be able to be thankful for life and health and safety and not so much for a backpack full of goo-gaws and whatever?

Obviously, you are not ever going to be able to (nor really want to, not really) get her out of your head but again... . you need some space to heal from the chaos and disfunction and her anger at you. And you WILL heal and she will more than likely learn to value you for more than just how effectively you curate her belongings. Chances are she is holding onto (mentally) what she can because so much is now out of her control.

I would give her low energy as regards all of this, Oh, well! Sorry sweetie. I didn't know (couldn't figure it out) and try to steer her onto something a bit less stressful for you. You can always tell her, "If this is all you want to talk about I'm going to hang up now." And let her figure out how she wants to use the one phone call a day.

I also strongly feel that just because our loved ones with BPD have maladaptive views on issues such as this, doesn't mean we have to buy into it or even pay it lip service other than a quick validation. It may be of importance to them but we have to remember we have a right to chose what we worry about and what is important to us.

Give all of this a year and then see how you feel... .

Thursday

[hopeangel]

Thursday - I found your post really helpful and thought provoking!

I too am contantly sucked into defending myself because I don't know the whereabouts of certain items that are really no concern of mine but apparently I 'had them last' then I get accused of keeping these things to show to people to 'humiliate' dd. Alternatively my dh or stepson must have stolen them to show people and humiliate dd.

This is all so obviously superfluous to what I NEED to be concentrating on but then an awful lot of time spent with dd is spent ruminating on how friends and boyfriends from the past have done wrong to her last decade and it can be the smallest things they did/didn't do but it takes a huge discussion before she will drop the topic, this to me is equally as time-wasting and as besides the point as the whole 'you have my ... . (insert item) and I need it! Who stole it?' conversation.

Time spent with dd is very rarely relaxed, usually requires high alert and readiness and once they fix on something ie 'where's my ... . ' and you don't know, you have usually had it and you should probably beat a hasty retreat till next time! Rinse and repeat!

[qcarolr]

Thursday. I was happy to see u replied and it always comes from the heart.

I called the motel. Too much stuff for housekeeping to inventory. Room cleared and all property gone same day vacated. No record of who got the red backpack.

Dd chose to evade warrants and police. I was trying to meet MY needs dreading her being homeless. I did say to her that if i had to choose jail or the street i would choose jail. Then do all on my power to comply and get out asap. Do not recall if she answered.

We are vastly different people. Alien to each other. Yet having this desire of the heart to be connected.  When both of us are in a sane moment together.

The mystery of the red backpack is that i can uuse the impetus of the to free myself from unsound sense of connection to dd stuff.

Tomorrow two friends from my bible group are coming to help sort dd clothes into clear tubs for storage. There is another that can come another time to help me with all the little things. I have asked for them to come cry and praay with me. I accept thos is too bog for me to do alone.

Dh is processing this letting go process purchasing a covered storage trailer to park where she needs her stuff. Than he  an bring it back until she needs it again. I reminded hom this could be a multiple year rpocess. Hmmmm. He will not pay for a storage unit. So what can fit into 6X10X6 foot space she can keep.

There is one shelf she has set aside special things from her son. I will keep those at our house for now. She shared thatit has taken her these four years to be able to look at hos things. Gs6 was in foster care at 5 months. Free for adoption at 18 months. Adoption by foster parents near 2nd birthday. So many losses for my dd.  She is only one that can work thru this for herself.

Qcr

Ps. Typing on my kindle sitting enjoying the sunny day outside. Sorry about the typos. U can this out anyway.

[Thursday]

qcarolr-

You and your Dh are kind. And you need to grieve. Which isn't an easy process.

Somewhere in all of this hope is laying in wait. The chaos is solved, in most circumstances, by distance. It becomes easy (yes easy) to disengage from her turmoil once you find a place to start and then you can really SEE what you are doing. No more

unsound sense of connection to dd stuff.

Be gentle with your decisions and your self-  we hold onto what we can... . but you will get healthier and all of these unsound senses will be replaced with much stronger stuff, stuff that is of true value.

I do imagine you will cry with your friends who come over to help you sort. And in many other ways, in many other situations.

Your DD is still here and there is a chance for her. If she decides NO... . there is nothing you can do about that. Just remember, not even her NO is chiseled in stone.

On a personal note- when my SD left here (after her prolonged stay in the sober house) she moved in with another family and we let her  move out with her expensive bed and bedframe, dresser, bedding and an equally expensive television. She has lost all of it to being kicked out of that first "home" and then again kicked out of an apartment she shared with friends.

I have, however, even after purging absolutely all of her clothes and trinkets, old dolls, stuffed animals, kept a box of Christmas stuff that was her Mom's and I have her Mom's jewelry in my closet for safe keeping. She might appreciate these things some day... . had I made her responsible for them they would already be gone. The stuff she's lost can all be replaced (and by her when she gets her stuff together enough to have her own place... . and when? who knows! ) but I want to give her a chance to be "normal" if and when... .

And I'm so over any sort of expectation that she will ever notice my efforts or the care I've taken. This I did for me. Because being a nice person is important to me. Just wanted you to hear that I understand what/why you and your hubby are doing what you are doing.

That is all. Really inadequate words for the depth of what you are experiencing... .

thursday

[qcarolr]

DD called tonight - her daily call. The first words out of her mouth were apologizing for being angry about the red backpack! She said there is no way I would have known this was hers.

I told her I wrote a letter telling her about sorting and packing her stuff for storage here at our house. She sounded sad, but did not argue. She asked me to be careful making decisions because sometimes I have messed things up for her. I asked about a couple specific things, and said I would do this with gentleness and respect for her.

She has a hearing on Thursday afternoon. She is hoping to get accepted into a program at the homeless shelter in transitional housing dorm. She asked me to leave a message for her PO to come talk to her about this - if it would fit into the PACE probation program. It is on a direct bus route to where the PACE program is located. There are lots of rules and schedules. It has a 9 month limit and if you succeed they get you into an apartment.

So there is always hope as long as there is breath. She has refused to even discuss this program in the past 5 years. The rumor mill among the homeless was not an accurate source for information. She has an appt. tonight to fill out the intact forms to see if she will qualify. I left the message with PO, and asked her to speak to DD in jail before Thursday. I am just a messenger.

What is the hardest for me is I keep thinking I have grieved enough. And then a new tsunami of emotions rolls over me. Yet, dh and I are working this together now. This is new and oh so good.

I so appreciate that you all get it.

qcr

[pessim-optimist]

qcr,

Oh, that is so good to hear! You and dd will get through this... .

I think it's all a process of disentangling the whole confusing web that keeps you and dd connected in a tangle.

She hoards, because her connection to things feels safe and secure (easier to hold onto things than people).

You understand that and you don't want to break her heart.

On the other hand, you understand that her hoarding is not your responsibility and if she has no place to keep her things, it's not your obligation to keep them.

Getting her things out of your home is you reclaiming your home and your space - your right and also something important for you psychologically... .

As you weep and sort through her things with friends tomorrow, you will be able to preserve the best stuff, and let go of the rest... .

There is a sense of hope in this: all that heavy bulky stuff and chaos can make way for air and organized clean space, and you will all be able to breathe freely and experience peace, rather than keep seeing the stuff and being traumatized every time all over again by bad memories... .

You can be loving towards dd by keeping some of her good things, and it will also be liberating to let go of the painful past.  

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[peace in steel town]

Best wishes, qcarolr, in sorting this mess out. I get it, when you have been lied to enough, you just disregard everything they say, if their lips are moving, they must be lying. I agree with your stance on stuff, it's just stuff, it can be replaced. If she holds onto everything, with white knuckles, she's afraid of loss, and everytime she loses one thing, she feels like she's losing something big all over again. If she's 27, I don't see why you need to hang onto any of her stuff. Boundaries are there to protect us, and you need to take care of you and dh. Good luck.

[qcarolr]

We are storing her stuff because she has no place to keep anything right now. Yes, her choices and inability to accept her part in these choices has put her where she is right now. It is her probation, not mine. I also get that her mental illness is real, her right-brain disorder is real.

I am also holding onto her stuff for my own self based needs. As my grieving progresses, I will be able to let things go. I am keeping my hope alive that she has the capacity to move forward in her life. I see new baby steps. She is a valuable person too, and needs respect and love even though I am not able to give my presence very much right now. My boundaries are in place to protect my values, and I am more able than ever to stick to them.

This is good for today. I have faith that what I need will come when tomorrow becomes today.

Pondering a new attitude expressed yesterday my DD in her call. I was asking about her pod-mates in jail. 25 women in about 500 square feet of bunk beds, tables, bathroom. And they don't all necessarily get along. It is noisy in the background when she calls.

I have told her a couple times in the past 2 weeks that it is important for her to learn to tolerate being alone with herself. She had "scum of the gutter" in her motel rooms the past couple months once her mentor/bf (homeless guy too) disappeared.[ side-note: DD has seen him in jail so gets where he disappeared to.] She has never been able to be alone, esp. at night, her panic time of day. This is her reason for the 'guests'.

So she started to tell me how bad it is that she is on a 'hold' so does not have a wrist band to go out of dorm to classes or rec. Then she paused. Well, I did have time to watch a movie in the quiet, and shower alone. With surprise she stated that maybe this was a good alone time for her.  

qcr

[peaceplease]

I have kept some of my daughter's things that she did not have room for.  At one time, we had a storage unit for ourselves when we moved.  When I moved in with my mother really quick when she got sick.  My dh came home and moved most of the stuff into storage.  Then when my dd found an apartment, we gave her all of my furniture and most of her stuff.  Although, quite a bit, we kept in my mother's basement. 

My dd moved into a 3br house, and still wanted to store stuff in my mother's house.  I told her no, as she yelled at how my dh always lost stuff. And, she would get mad when her stuff was moved.  I about had enough and told her that she had a spare room, and we were no longer being custodians of he belongings that she she did not have room for.  And, I told her they were only "things" and could be replaced.  I am such a non-materialistic person, so that is so easy for me.  She is very materialistic. 

I can understand how you feel, though, qcr.  By holidng onto her things, is for you, too. 

My dd can not stand to be alone, either.  I am the polar opposite.  I was worried that I like being alone too much.  But, I do have my times that I like to socialize. I just am always occupied that being alone does not bother me.  My dd needs someone there when she is doing work around the house.   

qcr, continued prayers for you and yours. 

peace

[qcarolr]

New development last night. Dd called that her new smartphone was never returned from the Detox facility. It was in the back of my mind that I had not seen it in her stuff. Kind of assumed she had it in her pocket when taken back to jail.

Called detox last night and the person that answered was too busy to 'look for it right now', but "had heard some talk from earlier when he was not there". I called him this morning - he had just gotten there for his second shift and couldn't talk yet. So I called late morning and was given the message they were looking but it was really busy. I left a voice message for the facility director to call me about this.

If they can't come up with an answer by tomorrow I feel like reporting it stolen.

Geez, why does this black cloud just hang over DD's head?

DD also asked for info on filing a complaint against the detox for her 'mistreatment'. I did figure out the agency that manages the Detox (County Public Health Dept) and talked to the Director of the Administrative Services. I wanted to know what the process was to file a complaint.

I know some may think I am getting too involved here. Guess it is a way to process my own angry feelings about the lack of training in the detox staff in some basic skills to de-escalate someone with mental illness. I am angry at the whole system actually.

This woman at public heath acknowledged the brokenness of the system with mental illness. She said they are working on teaming up the detox facility with the county mental health center to address this problem. She was also asking if DD had been impacted by the changes in health insurance. Well yes even before the new laws took effect our state had started to expand the medicaid to Adults with out children - either in poverty level job or disabiled. Yet, even with this health coverage there is no funding for the residential psych treatment that DD needs to be successful in probation and in her life. And then to get her stable enough to participate.

DD is in court as we speak at the jail. I am waiting for gd's bus to come from school. Will call jail this evening if I do not hear from DD to see what the judge says.

qcr

[qcarolr]

The cell phone was found on the floor. My call asking about it clarified who it belonged to. I think there was a small hole in the bag of stuff I picked up a few days earlier for DD. it is home with her other stuff now. I told her all about this on the phone yesterday.

I am starting a new thread. This one is done. My life is turned upside down after talking with po today. Look for me there.

qcr