Why do we still want them ?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I really do not understand how the human brain works anymore.  I can sit here and list all of the nasty things she has done ( lie, cheat, steal, lie some more, fabricate stories, playing the victim, never admitting fault )  The list could go on and on.  Now the logical side of me says thank god that I am no longer with her, I can finally have peace and start to live a normal life again, However my brain keeps thinking about her, missing her, wanting her back.   What in the world am I even doing thinking about her?

I know I was used, I know that its only a matter of time before the next person that she is with is going to go through the same things that I did.  I know I was not the first either.  My question still remains the same... . WHY?  This is crazy.  I know she is no good for me, I know she is toxic, I know she will keep cheating, I know she will keep stealing money, I know she is never going to have a rational way of thinking ,  but again, why do I want her back?  How can someone miss someone like that?  Why am I not happy right now?  

I can remember the good times, I can remember the bad times that seem to completely outweigh the good times, but again, I want her back, I miss her.  This is not logical at all.  This is not how I am supposed to think.

Sorry for the rant.  I am just having a really hard time right now.  Its almost 4 am here.  I am in bed, wide awake, experiencing what I believe to be anxiety.

[justanotherguy25]

I really do not understand how the human brain works anymore.  I can sit here and list all of the nasty things she has done ( lie, cheat, steal, lie some more, fabricate stories, playing the victim, never admitting fault )  The list could go on and on.  Now the logical side of me says thank god that I am no longer with her, I can finally have peace and start to live a normal life again, However my brain keeps thinking about her, missing her, wanting her back.   What in the world am I even doing thinking about her?

I know I was used, I know that its only a matter of time before the next person that she is with is going to go through the same things that I did.  I know I was not the first either.  My question still remains the same... . WHY?  This is crazy.  I know she is no good for me, I know she is toxic, I know she will keep cheating, I know she will keep stealing money, I know she is never going to have a rational way of thinking ,  but again, why do I want her back?  How can someone miss someone like that?  Why am I not happy right now?  

I can remember the good times, I can remember the bad times that seem to completely outweigh the good times, but again, I want her back, I miss her.  This is not logical at all.  This is not how I am supposed to think.

Sorry for the rant.  I am just having a really hard time right now.  Its almost 4 am here.  I am in bed, wide awake, experiencing what I believe to be anxiety.

[Surnia]

Hi justanotherguy

I hear you, being in bed and wide awake can be quite uncomfortable, with all kind of thoughts and feelings... .

What probably happens is that your brain get overruled by your emotions which is normal. My guess is: Your logical part can list the good things and the bad things and your emotional side is just missing her.

Accept your emotions could be the key here. It may feel wired first. Accepting you miss her doesn't mean you should give in and see here.

This is a quotation from the Five stages of Detachment here on the right side ----->

Rather than pushing away the anxiety and fear of losing what you care about, let it come up and breathe into it the same way. And when you're experiencing the hopelessness of actual loss, allow it in.

Let yourself cry.

Does this makes sense to you?

[arn131arn]

JAG,

This is the hardest part of it all; I know. I've been there, had the baby, bought the T-shirt, bro. It's a bond that we shared with them, I think they call it trauma bonding.  It's crazy, the brain's cells release chemicals (neurotransmitters) that cause pain.  We have been conditioned in these relationships to a point where our cells "NEED" these chemicals.  The euphoria of being on high with them, and the pain we feel when they ditch us over and over again.

It's crazy to think we still want them after we know they are just so bad for us, I know, bro. That pain got me to a place of meaning.  Not for her; but for me.  I was able to find a meaning in all of this pain, craziness, and chaos.  I spent several weeks right where you are now. I didn't want to let go, and I wanted her to recycle me again so bad, and I wanted her back just so I could see my son; but I soon realized that was futile, and ALL I would ever get from her is pain.  Then I made a decision.  I made a decision that MY life, my existence, and my meaning was not EVER going to be about her again.  It was going to start with me, and when I change and become a better man, than it will be all about my son.

So, I changed my attitude. I quit fighting her, the breakup, her parents, her friends, my replacement.  I stopped fighting the breakup, and very soon after that, I stopped thinking of her so often.  I saw a good guy friend of hers yesterday walking out of the convenience store.  I said, "Hi Mike, how you doing bro?  You look great, man.  I really like that shirt."  He stood there in amazement, even did a double take, because what she's telling him, I'm sure he thought I was in jail or deserved to be, at least.  Or just sunk into a deep depression, that I rarely get out of bed, much less to make it to the store for a Snicker's ice cream bar.

So, I soon started thinking of my best interests first.  She wouldn't let me see my son for 5 months, and after I stopped fighting her and her dad, I went to court, and I got my son back.

Do you think any of the pain or hurt you experienced from this relationship can give you a newfound meaning in life?

[Tolou]

Just another... . It is okay to feel all of those things, theres nothing wrong with it, unitl you act on it.  Something I told another poster was, no one can tell you what to do... . but going back, just imagine going through all this a second time? Not worth it.

It is a hard thing to move forward from, but you can and you will, in your own time.  No matter how good things were, if she truely is BPD, eventually, no matter what you did, there would have been an eventual trigger.  And no one is perfect, there rational is very childlike when they get unstable, forget it, there no getting through, you might as well be torturing yourself because that what it feels like, emotional draining torture.  Best things you can do, talk to rational people for support, to remind you, that your not crazy.  The biggest thing about people with personality disorders is what they do to the people around, pyschotic people, do it primarily to themselves.  PD-maladaptive behaviors effect everyone the come in contact with, eventually.  Unless their actively trying and getting help... . It is isn't worth what it can do to you in so many different aspects.  Work on your own self worth, and remember that this is not your responibility, this is the hard part, gettign through all the projection. Most of the feelings you have are projected from them, because they can't and don't want to deal with them.

[goldylamont]

firstly, while i respect your user name choice i hope you know that you are not only 'just another guy'! you're probably also a cool guy, good guy or something else too. so, there are several reasons why you still want this person, and many here can give you pointers as how to figure out why. many find the root of being attracted to toxic individuals comes from our own childhood issues dealing with love, abuse, etc. did this person fill a specific void in your life? and if so, what is the void and what from your past could have created it? so, there can be a personal history contributing to these thoughts. however, even with no 'void' or past issues, it's still normal to feel the way you feel. these are natural thoughts you are having when dealing with betrayal. anyone would feel like this.

it would serve well to rephrase "This is not how I am supposed to think." Actually, I think this is normal to feel this way. You have just received two diametrically opposed "Truths" shoved into your psyche simultaneously, then had everything forcefully taken away only to see that it was all Lies, not truth. this would shake anyone up, so i hope you don't beat yourself up for feeling this way. it is normal. it's emotional pain. think of physical pain--it's never comfortable, and often must be mediated or healed, but it's utterly necessary to our survival. if you asked me if i wanted to feel a searing pain in my hand, i would say "no!". but if you ask me if i left my hand on a burning stove if i would want my body to tell me to move it off before i got seriously burned, i would say "hell yes!". well, if i put my hand on a hot stove, real pain will tell me immediately "do NOT do that". it's painful but it saved me. likewise -- our emotional pain is telling us something. there is a message in you still wanting her and there is a message in your anxiety and grief. it is painful, yet you are not wrong in your thinking.

you still want her because you haven't had enough time to fully accept the reality of who she is. like all of us, we believed in something that wasn't true, at least not how we saw it. the pain and anxiety are alerting you that these beliefs are not true, and in fact could be toxic. these thoughts may be around for a while, so it's important to set yourself up as best you can in an environment that will let you heal as gracefully as possible. hope you are feeling somewhat better with the anxiety, this must be really difficult to deal with.

[goldylamont]

arn131arn i've been gone for several weeks. just wanted to say that that was a really great story. i'm so happy to hear this. it felt really strong and wise

[guitargrl]

Just was thinking about this same thing this morning!  Sorry you are feeling this way!

[Stjarna]

you still want her because you haven't had enough time to fully accept the reality of who she is. like all of us, we believed in something that wasn't true, at least not how we saw it. the pain and anxiety are alerting you that these beliefs are not true, and in fact could be toxic. these thoughts may be around for a while, so it's important to set yourself up as best you can in an environment that will let you heal as gracefully as possible.

Goldylamont -- very wise words.  Even after almost a year and even with a sweet happiness and peace settling in to my current life, I still sometimes struggle -- maybe not so much "wanting" him, but more a feeling of obligation.  We have LC, but thank you for pointing out that the pain and anxiety are alerts of the toxicity.

Sometimes just the difference in wording can strike a chord with me, and yours did, so thank you.

[LA4610]

i am sorry you feel like this. it hurts so much.

i don't want her anymore. she disgusts me. with time, you feel the same way.

[SWLSR]

Just

sometimes we r never going to find normal if it even exist.  but what BPD do to us is tbey jook us in with wonderful feelings and that is why we miss thwm.  even if we know the fellings are fake.

[LuckyNicki]

You are NOT ALONE MAN!  Check out my situation.

This girl dragged me into TWO Triangulation.  I was in such a cloud.  The first Triangulation was with an ex of hers and she eventually told me she didn't love him. So I continue sticking around even though we are not together.  Literally 1 month later, another ex boyfriend of hers comes into the picture!  The most absurd craziness I have ever been through. I have never had so much drama and emotional heartache ever in my life. 

I will tell you this.  I am a very confident and out going.  I know I can get a variety of hot quality women.  But for some damn reason, I am still so attracted to this individual and here are some of her baggages that will blow you away. 

1) I suspect she has high functional BPD

2) Compulsive lying/ cheating/ drama

3) Sexual Assault history

4) Has Cancer is going through chemo (potentially going through early menopause because of this, which I only read about, she did not tell me)

5) Possibly cannot have kids in the future.


In the beginning, I was willing to deal with 3-5 because I was in love.  I literally thought I was gonna marry her .  It's the first two that scares me to bits the most ironically. 

All of that and I still wonder, "Why do I still what her"? I have no clue!

[LuckyNicki]

also:

6)excessive spending and impulsivity.

7)drinks everyday!  Has sone a variety of substance when she gets depressed.

Again please tell me.  Why does a huge part of me still want her?   

[Madison66]

justanotherguy,

Your post is so honest and heartfelt!  I give you so much credit for letting emotions and feelings come through, and posting them here.  We've all dealt with unhealthy and disfunctional relationships, and are at different points in our healing and recovery.  I'll share with you what has helped me with detachment and healing from the emotional (and physical) abuse I allowed myself to endure for 3 years with my uBPD/NPD ex gf.  Four things:

1. Feel all the emotions and be real with yourself.  I can tell you that I believe I had an internal story to rationalize in my head and heart the abuse I put up with.  I also had a story for my friends and loved ones who questioned why I would choose to remain in the r/s.  I had to dig in to why I was living the "story" and see that I brought things into the r/s that contributed to me "doing the dance".  I had to let that "story" go.

2. Radical acceptance that my ex gf exhibited behaviors that I couldn't tolerate and she showed no ability or motivation to work on herself and change.  Her issues are real (as were mine) and healthy, loving r/s don't look this.  I have no control over her behavior and only can control myself.

3. Radical acceptance that I could not be my true self and function in the r/s.  I spent the last year of the r/s in individual T working on my own issues and becoming stronger in who I am as a person.  My values became more and more clear.  Although it hurt like hell to cut the cord on the r/s, it couldn't go on.  I need to be my best for myself and those around me.  I'm looking at life completely diferent now and living in the present.

4. Hope, faith and purpose!  I've allowed myself to have hope and faith that I'll recover from the effects of the r/s, and find those "gifts" of wisdom and growth within the slop of hurt and loss.  I'll move forward with purpose.  I've made a commitment to be my true self, live in the present and to not sell myself short in choosing r/s that are healthy and fulfilling.  As Ed Roland of Collective Soul sings in "Better Now", "It's time to celebrate me"!

Someone of this site recommended a book called "The Betrayal Bond" by Patick Carnes.  Pretty quick read about breaking free of exploitive relationships.  I read it and it really helped me.  Take the time you need and I'm sure you'll move forward with strength and purpose.  You deserve it!  

[nownotsure]

I've asked myself the same thing. The best explanation I've come across is that it has something to do with the psychological theory of intermittent reinforcement. I can't explain the theory as well as Skip does, so I've included below his explanation from a previous post. It does make a lot of sense if one takes a bit of time to reflect on why it is we keep going back.

Intermittent Reward

B.F. Skinner demonstrated that something that pays off every time does not have as strong an influence as something that only pays off once in awhile. This is what drives casino gambling, for example.  The higher the stakes, the more the impulse to take a chance on it, or keep trying - even though most of the time you lose.

The drive for the intermittent reward takes much longer to "extinguish" than the drive for the every-time reward. In the latter, as soon as the reward stops coming, you stop trying.  In the former, you keep trying... .

At some point in the BP relationship I think this can become a significant factor.  It explains why we keep trying to win "idealization" from our BP partner even when confronted with repeated abusive defeats.  During the highs and lows that are often described on this board as the "roller coaster" - the high is, in affect, the intermittent reward.

This drive caused by intermittent reward is so strong that the human psyche will actually override the more numerous times we lose by allowing us to dream of winning.  And this dreaming fuels the fire of our drive for each new effort.

BTW, I first learned this from a dog trainer    And I think I got caught on this one.

[Allmessedup]

Awesome explanation!  Thank you for posting this today!

[janey62]

I Now the logical side of me says thank god that I am no longer with her, I can finally have peace and start to live a normal life again, However my brain keeps thinking about her, missing her, wanting her back.   What in the world am I even doing thinking about her?

I can remember the good times, I can remember the bad times that seem to completely outweigh the good times, but again, I want her back, I miss her.  This is not logical at all.  This is not how I am supposed to think.

Hi Justanotherguy25,

I feel for you and hope that you've managed to go to sleep... .   I have been in a similar place myself tonight.  Exactly the questions you've asked have been going round in my head.

Yesterday I had a conversation with my exuBPDbf via email.  He wanted his stereo back that he left in my flat.  After being really abusive the day before he was apologising and telling me how much he misses me and that he can never apologise enough for all the pain he's caused me.  The abuse was his usual bile outpouring, I am not going to repeat it, but it hurt.  However, I managed to forget it all tonight and sat weeping and aching and wishing there was a way we could be together, but knowing, as you said, that it would only end up the same.  I am not prepared to risk that.  It took me to the worst place I've ever been in my life, I won't go back there.

Even though I knew what he was like and that things were not right, before I realised he was probably a BPD sufferer, I gave up everything to be with him, moved to a new town far from home, gave up job and house and ended up being homeless with no income living on the kindness of strangers.  He laughed at me, gloated, in between being sorry and wanting and needing and loving me! Over and over in every decreasing cycles. 

I nearly lost my mind... . I can ask myself why endlessly or I can grow, heal, gain strength and courage so that next time, if there is a next time, I will be able to avoid those same pitfalls.

All of the suggested reasons written here make sense.  We just have to keep reminding ourselves that it's ok to be sad and confused and think crazy thoughts, but not ok to act on them.

Tomorrow I'm posting his stereo.  It's another step further away from him. 

Hope you have a better day tomorrow... . we're here for you.

Janey x

[justanotherguy25]

Thank you, thank you , thank you.

It was such a nice feeling to come home from work to read the MANY replies.  I am so glad that I found this place.  It's extremely reassuring that there are other people who can relate to what I am going through, although with that being said, its also very unfortunate to see so many other people who are still hurting or who have had to go through the pain. 

Luckyniki wrote

1) I suspect she has high functional BPD

2) Compulsive lying/ cheating/ drama

3) Sexual Assault history

4) Has Cancer is going through chemo (potentially going through early menopause because of this, which I only read about, she did not tell me)

5) Possibly cannot have kids in the future.


This ALL really hit home with me.

1) she does function from day to day, however, she does not work.  She is living off the Government.

2) yup , that's her alright.

3) Do not think she has every sexually assaulted anyone, however she did tell me that her 2 previous boyfriends both ended up in the hospital.  She broke a vacuum over one of their heads, the other got half the kitchen thrown at him.  The father of her child ended up with charges against him for involuntary confinement and assault ( ya let me guess who's fault that was )

4) She just finished another round of radiation for cervical cancer.

5) she will never be able to have another child.

Again, I can list all of the so many reasons why she is toxic for me, but still , i want this toxic person in my life.  I know it's horrible for me.

I am still a young ( 31 years old )  I am an attractive person, I am successful and have never had any problems ever meeting women.  She was honestly someone that I would never normally be attracted to, but somehow , someway she got to me.

I did however get her with one final jab.  The day that she showed up with the moving truck, I waited a few hours after she left and drove strait down to the corvette dealership and bought myself a new car    I had been saving for a while and was always talking about buying my dream car.  She was always against this as she did not see a need for such a car.  I know she saw the pictures on facebook and she started posting nasty comments about it.   Not going to lie, but it actually made me feel good

[LuckyNicki]

There is definitely something about cancer that makes their BPD much worst from what I've been researching on the internet.  A simple period can make their BPD act up even more.

.  I really believe that my ex went into survivor mode.  That is, all her decisions are for herself even if it might hurt someone.  The logic side of my brain doesnt blame her as much when I think through it all.   But the emotions are painful.

I know that my ex knows that she can very well hurt me but she also knows that I can get over it one day.

Especially cancer, it makes them feel more unwanted.   They simply cant fathom people staying with them when they are so damage so investing in one person is so risky on their part.   Even though its counterintuitive to a long lasting healthy relationship.

Btw.  "Sexual assault history" I meant that she has been sexually assaulted in her past.

[Tausk]

All the above stated concepts are very true about why we still want them.  PTSD, trauma bond, rescuing behavior, intermitent reinforcement, limerence... . And these are all areas that I needed to look at.

But these concepts didn't get to the baseline of why I'm stuck. Basically it has to do with my FOO issues.  

A child loves their parents and family no matter what.  My ex represents my mom who was disordered when I was young.  And, no matter what, I'm going to love my mom.  As a child I didn't really understand why it's all F'ked up.  I just got used to feeling like I had to rescue and comfort.  Normal for me was chaos.  Normal for me was intermitent reinforcement, emotional dysregulation, trying to fix... . Normal for me was never letting go of my love for my mom no matter how bad things got.  Normal for me was my interaction with my ex.

And normal to me, as a survival tool, was LIVING IN A FANTASY WORLD.

And the interaction with my ex was a fantasy. I never had to give up my fantasy world as a child, and when I was given the opportunity to live the fantasy world with my ex (at least at the beginning), I can't to this day give up the fantasy.  

I had the survival traits of my FOO issues to make it through my childhood without going Bat Sh't Crazy.  And I had my fantasies in my childhood that maybe something could be better.  With my ex, all the insanity was the same as my childhood, including lots of responsibility over others and their emotions, but no real control.  But at least with my ex, I also had the hope of the real life fantasy.  

What I needed to do was ultimately stop looking at my ex, but my FOO issues for the real freedom.

[janey62]

Absolutely spot on Tausk!

A child loves their parents and family no matter what.  My ex represents my mom who was disordered when I was young.  And, no matter what, I'm going to love my mom.  As a child I didn't really understand why it's all F'ked up.  I just got used to feeling like I had to rescue and comfort.  Normal for me was chaos.  Normal for me was intermitent reinforcement, emotional dysregulation, trying to fix... . Normal for me was never letting go of my love for my mom no matter how bad things got.  Normal for me was my interaction with my ex.

The thing that makes me know this is totally true for me too is that my mother was the same; abusive, sorry, guilty, suicidal, loving, then back to abusive.  Exactly like my exuBPDbf... .

When the person who loves and protects you is also abusing you it's no wonder I/we are in such a mess in our relationships!

I have wracked my brains to try to understand why this happens to me, why I can somehow, miraculously, manage to develop amnesia when it comes to my ex and easily forgive him the most horrendous behaviour!  But like you said, it was normal to forgive and protect.  My mother was often suicidal and I as the eldest was in charge of keeping her alive, until she finally managed to check out.  I think that's another reason I forgave him so easily, fear of what he might do to himself... .

I'm free now though and taking one day at a time, grateful to get to the end of each day in a state of calm and contentment.


Janey x